<!--quoteo(post=1847343:date=May 19 2011, 05:12 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 19 2011, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think flying through glass would be a great idea as it would lead to confusion as what is passable and what is a boundary.
Minor props such as railings, crates, and that little cart thing would be fine though. As long as it had like the tf2 clipping pushing them out of the prop if they unblink in them. I often get caught on the smaller props and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty simple really. If you can see through it, you can move through it.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1847369:date=May 19 2011, 12:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 19 2011, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's pretty simple really. If you can see through it, you can move through it.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From the marine perspective the Fade disappears and appears on his right. From the Fade's perspective he starts his blink ...runs to the perfect position (which could be that marine's right side, because he always looks left) ...and finishes his blink, and stab stab stab
When running away using Blink, I should be able to start the blink and run in the OPPOSITE direction of what i was facing. They yell "He's running" ...when I swing back to their base and take out a turret :-)
It makes the Blink still as cool as it looks...but easier to pick up and use.
In the hands of a Master it will be like the opening of X-Men 2.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camouflage (Shade) - Enemies can’t see you until you are within 5-10 meters. At that range, you start to become visible, especially if you’re moving. Closer than that and you’re readily apparent. Should view model change? Footsteps are quieter too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh...
Isn't this exactly the kind of thing cloak had trouble in NS1? Various graphical settings, different drivers, 3rd party gamma programs and different kind of monitors make it very difficult to create any consistent level of visibility. Combine that with the already existing variating levels of darkness and lighting and the camouflage visibility goes totally wild depending on the system the marine is running.
NS1 solved this by making cloak 100% on certain situations, but then again the cloak was very much hated upgrade due to the certain helplessnes from marine's viewpoint.
EDIT: Added some thoughts on the mutation:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mutation (Shift) - Until you die, evolution costs and times are reduced by the amount you've already paid. For example, evolving from Skulk to Lerk would be full resource cost and take the full time, but evolving to Skulk, Gorge or Lerk from then on (until you died) would be free and nearly instantaneous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmh, if I understood this correctly any higher lifeform can switch to gorge at any given time. I don't know how this would affect the present gorge design, but in terms of NS1 gorge:
- Whatever non-combat building the gorges do, the higher lifeforms would do with their spare res whenever they've got time. In NS1 context you'd have fades and lerks dropping RTs and chambers and then proceeding back to their previous tasks instead of having someone to actually sacrifice active resoucres (resoucres that are not some lifeform's spare resoucres) to get the gorging done.
I'm not sure if the whole thing is bad at all, but it certainly raises a few extra questions. Less inactive resoucres means that the whole alien team is heading more directly into higher lifeforms for example. Also, I guess this would emphasize gorge's value as a field player rather than a halfway economical pick. Neither is necessarily a negative thing, but worth consideration in my opinion.
- Gorges everywhere! There was a bit of talk about this with the gorge bilebomb, I think. In NS1 things like bilebomb are possible because gorges are difficult to get into position. You either need a skulklift or you have gestate on site to get gorge into a vent or ceiling position. Now imagine a skulk switching to gorge for free instantly on any vent. Things like bilebomb could become really nasty with relatively little effort.
At best it could be interesting to have gorges easier in some positions, but then again the last thing I want is that interesting positional abilities get nerfed to death because gorge can get around a lot easier in skulk or lerk form.
<!--quoteo(post=1847179:date=May 18 2011, 04:00 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ May 18 2011, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847179"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thank you very much for adding my proposed "netherworld" fade blink idea. woooo!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I too always wanted something like this! I posted this on getsatisfaction awhile ago, but no one really seemed to notice or care *shrugs*.
From December, a little after the Fade got put in, I think. -------- While I don't mind the current Blink ability for the Fade, other ideas popped into my head for how the Fade could get around using this ability. Trying to stay true to NS1, the current ability seems like a good fit -- however I feel like I lose a lot of the movement control or movement prediction. I always felt like the Fade should have supreme control with mobility -- able to Blink behind the marines with ease and attack.
The idea that rolled into my head came up when I thought about the game Soul Reaver: Legacy of Kain. If anyone has played this, you know the gameplay contains an ability that allows the character to "shift" into a spectral plane -- separate from the material plane.
Something like this, that would allow the Fade to Blink in and out, would be pretty cool. I guess you could think of it as the fade becoming invisible and not able to interact with anything in this "spectral plane" (rather than an instantaneous jump). This could allow the Fade to play a bit more sneaky and properly position themselves in any way the player could manage. Remaining in this plane could use adrenaline/energy, of course. I think it would be fairly easy to incorporate as well.
The more I think about it, the more ideas come to mind. Using the existing particle/sprite effect for Blinking, adding a short delay when Blinking back into the material plane (the effect could be used as an indicator to where the Fade will Blink in). Maybe shifting into the spectral-type plane simply instantly and completely cloaks the Fade, still being able to take damage...
I think people might see this idea as an all-powerful or cheap ability -- but I think anything could be balanced or incorporated as long as it made the match fair/playable __________
Basically it's exactly like a 'netherworld' thing -- I say spectral plane, lol -- I was always a big fan of Soul Reaver and that's what inspired it. I could really like changes that go in the direction of something like this.
I have trouble imagining how the fade idea works. The screen stretches and there is some special effect - cool. Then what? You fly to the location? Does that mean you go in a straight line? Is there a ghost model to show you where you would end up?
<!--quoteo(post=1847400:date=May 19 2011, 03:00 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ May 19 2011, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there a ghost model to show you where you would end up?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe....(which is not to say I am right)
No you end up where you run to. No more ghost model.
from the marine's perspective you teleported. from your perspective you go into a fuzzy darker version of the world where you run faster (another plane) and you run to where you want to go...and tada you are there.
<!--quoteo(post=1847343:date=May 19 2011, 12:12 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 19 2011, 12:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847343"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think flying through glass would be a great idea as it would lead to confusion as what is passable and what is a boundary.
Minor props such as railings, crates, and that little cart thing would be fine though. As long as it had like the tf2 clipping pushing them out of the prop if they unblink in them. I often get caught on the smaller props and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1847369:date=May 19 2011, 12:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 19 2011, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's pretty simple really. If you can see through it, you can move through it.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that was the idea. The effect for Blink would presumably be generated in the same way the Alien Flashlight is, and since they can choose what to and what not to render in that, it wouldn't be any more difficult to add some translucent effect for (as a possible example) entities/brushes with a fadeClip boolean set to false.
Considering how drastic this "effect" has been described, it seems like it's going to be something that takes some getting used to anyways, so getting used to the fact that certain brushes are suddenly translucent (and traverable) isn't really asking much.
Obviously mappers would have to take care when doing this, possibly adding some geometry where they wouldn't have to (to avoid Blinking Fades falling through leaks).
As for the glass behind the Marine: The condition would be, "objects that are rendered translucent when Fading," not, "thin or glass objects," so you'd depend only on what you see, not on what you intuitively think you should be able to Blink through.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1847404:date=May 19 2011, 03:44 PM:name=KuBaN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KuBaN @ May 19 2011, 03:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847404"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the glass behind the Marine: The condition would be, "objects that are rendered translucent when Fading," not, "thin or glass objects," so you'd depend only on what you see, <b>not on what you intuitively think you should be able to Blink through.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There lies the problem. Unintuitive game design just adds unnecessary complications.
Say you have the laser cube in portal 2. You know it redirects the lasers. And now in the next room, without telling the player, make that laser cube explode when it gets in contact with a laser.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
i think a big problem about this is balance. basically a fade is invulnerable in his netherworld, which leads to the fact that blink will become a defensive ability. once you are low -> activate blink -> life saved no matter what. of course if you are stupid enough, have no energy or get stuck in a wall then you die. this can become very frustrating to marines, or if energy costs are too high it will be frustrating for the fade.
I dont know if you could ever find a good number of energy cost for such an ability.
Hell you could quite easily add it as a prop keyvalue or somthing in the editor, so you can set if any object will turn transparent in fade vision, you could add all sorts of special paths through the level for fades.
Default it to no, so you can build your level as normal, then let the mapper turn it on where appropriate.
<!--quoteo(post=1847419:date=May 19 2011, 09:58 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ May 19 2011, 09:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think a big problem about this is balance. basically a fade is invulnerable in his netherworld, which leads to the fact that blink will become a defensive ability. once you are low -> activate blink -> life saved no matter what. of course if you are stupid enough, have no energy or get stuck in a wall then you die. this can become very frustrating to marines, or if energy costs are too high it will be frustrating for the fade.
I dont know if you could ever find a good number of energy cost for such an ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As opposed to how blink has always been?
The entire point about blink is that it lets you get in, do damage, and then get out. if you're not using blink to retreat you aren't playing fade properly.
<!--quoteo(post=1847414:date=May 19 2011, 09:40 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 19 2011, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There lies the problem. Unintuitive game design just adds unnecessary complications.
Say you have the laser cube in portal 2. You know it redirects the lasers. And now in the next room, without telling the player, make that laser cube explode when it gets in contact with a laser.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well no, it's more like 'have the laser cube be sat on a ledge or something rather than issuing it from a dispenser tube'
The mechanic is unchanged, if you can see through it in fade vision, you can move through it, but exactly what you can see through in fade vision changes from area to area, as with the positioning of the cube.
If it's really that confusing, the level designer isn't doing his job properly. It's up to him to make levels consistent, if he uses a door prop it should function like a door, if he uses a tech point model it should function like a tech point, but there are situations where you can use those models as just scenery. Similarly there are situations where windows might be used on the outside of the level but for obvious reasons the fade can't move through them. 'You can't teleport outside the level' is a fairly simple and intuitive rule, it's not that complicated to have it interface with 'you can teleport through transparent stuff'.
Hey if you really need to, you can apply a shader to everything which blocks your movement in blink vision, and fade everything that doesn't out. That way obstructing geometry, even if it's a window, becomes pretty opaque, while non-obstructing geometry is mostly see through.
If the fade wants to, they can just spend some blink time to look around before he fights in an area, just as skulks would look for corners and crawlspaces, and lerks check the roof and suchlike. It's quite consistent really.
As a note on just spending blink time to look around, the new blink mode has a potentially amusing use. Fire up blink, but don't move. The marine immediately starts looking round for where you might move to, then you come out of blink right where you started and kill him.
<!--quoteo(post=1847441:date=May 19 2011, 10:45 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 19 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In NS1 you don't turn invincible & invisible while blinking though, a shotgunner can block you and fill your face with lead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh no you just move ridiculously fast around dark rooms to the point where it is quite easily impossible for marines to track you. To say nothing of the ability that adds automatic teleport back to hives when you would normally die, and the ability that does actually turn you invisible.
<!--quoteo(post=1847414:date=May 19 2011, 04:40 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 19 2011, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There lies the problem. Unintuitive game design just adds unnecessary complications.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only if the player is left with his intuition and no other indication of how the system works. Players will be able to learn which objects you can move through instantly. Just Blink. If the brush can be traversed, it will look noticeably different, if not completely invisible.
If you don't intuitively understand that you can walk through empty space, there is no helping you.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
I think the fade is strong enough and now has his superspeed blinking ability. Where he is seemingly teleporting. I think it would be a <i>little</i> overboard to allow him to go through props that are obstructive to marines. They need some chance to shoot at him.
I remember once in NS1, I was playing a map that I didn't knew, blinking around then suddenly I fall in a huge open space, the kind of space you die if you fall into : "hooo ######, blink up!". Barely managed to escape gravity and save myself with no energy left. That's all ^^
1) Fade blinking while in phase relam going through players sounds OK. Not map geometry. MAYBE placeable stuff like buildings. Anything more complicated just leads to silliness and potential for inconsistency. 2) The Camo sounds like a neat idea. Instead of cloak, which is movement speed based, you have something that's distance based for whether you're invisible or not.
3) Shush about who's idea it was originally. It got posted so many times I stopped replying to those threads.
I quite like the current fade blinking. Maybe dimming that blue cloudy effect for the FPV a little but it works, it's literaly a "blink" gone, "blink" back.
The only adjusting I'd do is instead of making it free flowing I'd restrict it, per number of hives to x distance per hive. That way a player albeit marine or alien knows probable landing location from the blink and it's not always random, so neither team gets a huge huge advantage, but the alien advantage still remains.
The whole phase-realm shifting idea to me, sounds a bit awkward and disorientating but let's see how it works out.
<!--quoteo(post=1847450:date=May 19 2011, 03:14 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 19 2011, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the fade is strong enough and now has his superspeed blinking ability. Where he is seemingly teleporting. I think it would be a <i>little</i> overboard to allow him to go through props that are obstructive to marines. They need some chance to shoot at him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This assumes that you know what props the devs are going to allow the fade to go through.
A flamethrower can shoot through props right now, I'd half expect fade blink in its new form to go through it. Maybe that's something we need some clarification on.
I'm pretty sure the plan for the new fade blink is that he wouldn't be able to go through anything he can't go through during his normal movement. So, he would get blocked by props, windows, and players still. Charlie liked that in NS1 marine players could keep a fade from blinking and getting away by surrounding and blocking him in.
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I'd really like to have the ability to 'blink' around corners and truly surprise marines.
For example, say I see marines around a corner. Let me enter 'blink walk' mode.
I then get a chance (say 3 seconds worth?) of walking around and when the time is up I actually teleport to where I walked to.
During this time of course I am vulnerable to attack (where I started from), but it would give me great control over picking where to teleport to and actually make a surprise attack.
New Blink sounds AWESOME! I am surely not the only one but I made that suggestion months ago ;P I'm looking forward to it (and the cool tech-changes) :D
<!--quoteo(post=1847492:date=May 19 2011, 06:56 PM:name=sumguy720)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sumguy720 @ May 19 2011, 06:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will the fade be able to blink up and down still? Like up into rafters and over large chasms?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I'd figure as much. Fades not being able to attack Marines with Jetpacks don't sound right to me...
I think that should be a dynamic left for the skulks and the lerks, after all they can now snipe so that will put jetpackers off being so free to run around knowing they can be hit from anywhere at anytime.
<!--quoteo(post=1847479:date=May 19 2011, 08:50 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ May 19 2011, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Charlie liked that in NS1 marine players could keep a fade from blinking and getting away by surrounding and blocking him in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Didn't think of this. Good point ;)
Comments
Minor props such as railings, crates, and that little cart thing would be fine though. As long as it had like the tf2 clipping pushing them out of the prop if they unblink in them. I often get caught on the smaller props and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty simple really. If you can see through it, you can move through it.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough*
<img src="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/screenshot_blackarmor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
From the marine perspective the Fade disappears and appears on his right.
From the Fade's perspective he starts his blink ...runs to the perfect position (which could be that marine's right side, because he always looks left)
...and finishes his blink, and stab stab stab
When running away using Blink, I should be able to start the blink and run in the OPPOSITE direction of what i was facing.
They yell "He's running" ...when I swing back to their base and take out a turret :-)
It makes the Blink still as cool as it looks...but easier to pick up and use.
In the hands of a Master it will be like the opening of X-Men 2.
Uhh...
Isn't this exactly the kind of thing cloak had trouble in NS1? Various graphical settings, different drivers, 3rd party gamma programs and different kind of monitors make it very difficult to create any consistent level of visibility. Combine that with the already existing variating levels of darkness and lighting and the camouflage visibility goes totally wild depending on the system the marine is running.
NS1 solved this by making cloak 100% on certain situations, but then again the cloak was very much hated upgrade due to the certain helplessnes from marine's viewpoint.
EDIT: Added some thoughts on the mutation:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mutation (Shift) - Until you die, evolution costs and times are reduced by the amount you've already paid. For example, evolving from Skulk to Lerk would be full resource cost and take the full time, but evolving to Skulk, Gorge or Lerk from then on (until you died) would be free and nearly instantaneous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmh, if I understood this correctly any higher lifeform can switch to gorge at any given time. I don't know how this would affect the present gorge design, but in terms of NS1 gorge:
- Whatever non-combat building the gorges do, the higher lifeforms would do with their spare res whenever they've got time. In NS1 context you'd have fades and lerks dropping RTs and chambers and then proceeding back to their previous tasks instead of having someone to actually sacrifice active resoucres (resoucres that are not some lifeform's spare resoucres) to get the gorging done.
I'm not sure if the whole thing is bad at all, but it certainly raises a few extra questions. Less inactive resoucres means that the whole alien team is heading more directly into higher lifeforms for example. Also, I guess this would emphasize gorge's value as a field player rather than a halfway economical pick. Neither is necessarily a negative thing, but worth consideration in my opinion.
- Gorges everywhere! There was a bit of talk about this with the gorge bilebomb, I think. In NS1 things like bilebomb are possible because gorges are difficult to get into position. You either need a skulklift or you have gestate on site to get gorge into a vent or ceiling position. Now imagine a skulk switching to gorge for free instantly on any vent. Things like bilebomb could become really nasty with relatively little effort.
At best it could be interesting to have gorges easier in some positions, but then again the last thing I want is that interesting positional abilities get nerfed to death because gorge can get around a lot easier in skulk or lerk form.
Also I see the twitter thread is gone now. Sad to see it deleted. Even though it was pretty much replaced by the design log thread.
I too always wanted something like this! I posted this on getsatisfaction awhile ago, but no one really seemed to notice or care *shrugs*.
<a href="http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv" target="_blank">http://gsfn.us/t/1ylqv</a>
From December, a little after the Fade got put in, I think.
--------
While I don't mind the current Blink ability for the Fade, other ideas popped into my head for how the Fade could get around using this ability. Trying to stay true to NS1, the current ability seems like a good fit -- however I feel like I lose a lot of the movement control or movement prediction. I always felt like the Fade should have supreme control with mobility -- able to Blink behind the marines with ease and attack.
The idea that rolled into my head came up when I thought about the game Soul Reaver: Legacy of Kain. If anyone has played this, you know the gameplay contains an ability that allows the character to "shift" into a spectral plane -- separate from the material plane.
Something like this, that would allow the Fade to Blink in and out, would be pretty cool. I guess you could think of it as the fade becoming invisible and not able to interact with anything in this "spectral plane" (rather than an instantaneous jump). This could allow the Fade to play a bit more sneaky and properly position themselves in any way the player could manage. Remaining in this plane could use adrenaline/energy, of course. I think it would be fairly easy to incorporate as well.
The more I think about it, the more ideas come to mind. Using the existing particle/sprite effect for Blinking, adding a short delay when Blinking back into the material plane (the effect could be used as an indicator to where the Fade will Blink in). Maybe shifting into the spectral-type plane simply instantly and completely cloaks the Fade, still being able to take damage...
I think people might see this idea as an all-powerful or cheap ability -- but I think anything could be balanced or incorporated as long as it made the match fair/playable
__________
Basically it's exactly like a 'netherworld' thing -- I say spectral plane, lol -- I was always a big fan of Soul Reaver and that's what inspired it. I could really like changes that go in the direction of something like this.
I believe....(which is not to say I am right)
No you end up where you run to.
No more ghost model.
from the marine's perspective you teleported.
from your perspective you go into a fuzzy darker version of the world where you run faster (another plane)
and you run to where you want to go...and tada you are there.
Minor props such as railings, crates, and that little cart thing would be fine though. As long as it had like the tf2 clipping pushing them out of the prop if they unblink in them. I often get caught on the smaller props and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1847369:date=May 19 2011, 12:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ May 19 2011, 12:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's pretty simple really. If you can see through it, you can move through it.
You could quite easily just disable rendering on anything the fade can move through while in blink vision, so that's even easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that was the idea. The effect for Blink would presumably be generated in the same way the Alien Flashlight is, and since they can choose what to and what not to render in that, it wouldn't be any more difficult to add some translucent effect for (as a possible example) entities/brushes with a fadeClip boolean set to false.
Considering how drastic this "effect" has been described, it seems like it's going to be something that takes some getting used to anyways, so getting used to the fact that certain brushes are suddenly translucent (and traverable) isn't really asking much.
Obviously mappers would have to take care when doing this, possibly adding some geometry where they wouldn't have to (to avoid Blinking Fades falling through leaks).
As for the glass behind the Marine: The condition would be, "objects that are rendered translucent when Fading," not, "thin or glass objects," so you'd depend only on what you see, not on what you intuitively think you should be able to Blink through.
There lies the problem. Unintuitive game design just adds unnecessary complications.
Say you have the laser cube in portal 2. You know it redirects the lasers. And now in the next room, without telling the player, make that laser cube explode when it gets in contact with a laser.
I dont know if you could ever find a good number of energy cost for such an ability.
<img src="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/screenshot_blackarmor.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can add an exception for stuff like that.
Hell you could quite easily add it as a prop keyvalue or somthing in the editor, so you can set if any object will turn transparent in fade vision, you could add all sorts of special paths through the level for fades.
Default it to no, so you can build your level as normal, then let the mapper turn it on where appropriate.
<!--quoteo(post=1847419:date=May 19 2011, 09:58 PM:name=Schimmel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Schimmel @ May 19 2011, 09:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847419"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i think a big problem about this is balance. basically a fade is invulnerable in his netherworld, which leads to the fact that blink will become a defensive ability. once you are low -> activate blink -> life saved no matter what. of course if you are stupid enough, have no energy or get stuck in a wall then you die. this can become very frustrating to marines, or if energy costs are too high it will be frustrating for the fade.
I dont know if you could ever find a good number of energy cost for such an ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As opposed to how blink has always been?
The entire point about blink is that it lets you get in, do damage, and then get out. if you're not using blink to retreat you aren't playing fade properly.
Say you have the laser cube in portal 2. You know it redirects the lasers. And now in the next room, without telling the player, make that laser cube explode when it gets in contact with a laser.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well no, it's more like 'have the laser cube be sat on a ledge or something rather than issuing it from a dispenser tube'
The mechanic is unchanged, if you can see through it in fade vision, you can move through it, but exactly what you can see through in fade vision changes from area to area, as with the positioning of the cube.
If it's really that confusing, the level designer isn't doing his job properly. It's up to him to make levels consistent, if he uses a door prop it should function like a door, if he uses a tech point model it should function like a tech point, but there are situations where you can use those models as just scenery. Similarly there are situations where windows might be used on the outside of the level but for obvious reasons the fade can't move through them. 'You can't teleport outside the level' is a fairly simple and intuitive rule, it's not that complicated to have it interface with 'you can teleport through transparent stuff'.
Hey if you really need to, you can apply a shader to everything which blocks your movement in blink vision, and fade everything that doesn't out. That way obstructing geometry, even if it's a window, becomes pretty opaque, while non-obstructing geometry is mostly see through.
If the fade wants to, they can just spend some blink time to look around before he fights in an area, just as skulks would look for corners and crawlspaces, and lerks check the roof and suchlike. It's quite consistent really.
As a note on just spending blink time to look around, the new blink mode has a potentially amusing use. Fire up blink, but don't move. The marine immediately starts looking round for where you might move to, then you come out of blink right where you started and kill him.
<!--quoteo(post=1847441:date=May 19 2011, 10:45 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 19 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847441"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In NS1 you don't turn invincible & invisible while blinking though, a shotgunner can block you and fill your face with lead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh no you just move ridiculously fast around dark rooms to the point where it is quite easily impossible for marines to track you. To say nothing of the ability that adds automatic teleport back to hives when you would normally die, and the ability that does actually turn you invisible.
Only if the player is left with his intuition and no other indication of how the system works. Players will be able to learn which objects you can move through instantly. Just Blink. If the brush can be traversed, it will look noticeably different, if not completely invisible.
If you don't intuitively understand that you can walk through empty space, there is no helping you.
1) Fade blinking while in phase relam going through players sounds OK. Not map geometry. MAYBE placeable stuff like buildings. Anything more complicated just leads to silliness and potential for inconsistency.
2) The Camo sounds like a neat idea. Instead of cloak, which is movement speed based, you have something that's distance based for whether you're invisible or not.
3) Shush about who's idea it was originally. It got posted so many times I stopped replying to those threads.
The only adjusting I'd do is instead of making it free flowing I'd restrict it, per number of hives to x distance per hive. That way a player albeit marine or alien knows probable landing location from the blink and it's not always random, so neither team gets a huge huge advantage, but the alien advantage still remains.
The whole phase-realm shifting idea to me, sounds a bit awkward and disorientating but let's see how it works out.
This assumes that you know what props the devs are going to allow the fade to go through.
--Cory
For example, say I see marines around a corner. Let me enter 'blink walk' mode.
I then get a chance (say 3 seconds worth?) of walking around and when the time is up I actually teleport to where I walked to.
During this time of course I am vulnerable to attack (where I started from), but it would give me great control over picking where to teleport to and actually make a surprise attack.
I'm looking forward to it (and the cool tech-changes) :D
And I hate you all for liking it.
And hopefully things like flamethrowers won't light the fade on fire during blink form. As you know what goes on in tf2..
Yes, I'd figure as much. Fades not being able to attack Marines with Jetpacks don't sound right to me...
Didn't think of this. Good point ;)