NS2 design decision log
Flayra
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
Game Director, Unknown Worlds EntertainmentSan Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer
<div class="IPBDescription">See the latest thinking and decisions</div>Hey everyone,
As a way to keep our team up to date with the latest thinking on NS2 design, I started <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J" target="_blank">this document</a>. I thought as long as I was going to share it with them, I should share it with all of you also.
As a way to keep our team up to date with the latest thinking on NS2 design, I started <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/139ySUrBsO0m0Z4ilq0YsDEHJLQhBa6RrIjJIsckL2kE/edit?hl=en&authkey=CLCo8Z0J" target="_blank">this document</a>. I thought as long as I was going to share it with them, I should share it with all of you also.
Comments
Works now. Thanks!
"Gorge suckling on res nozzle" idea would be pretty funny to see in action. Alien comm: "we need more teat sucking! Get to it gorges!"
But seriously, it's nice to see some of the thought process going on and why things wouldn't/would work.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines need way to deal with DI before flamethrowers. Going to try having infestation created from a “pustule†that creates it, which can be destroyed with regular weapons. It will have about 400 health (2x health of egg).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you insist of a early counter to DI, allow the switch-axe to be used as a slow weed whacker. This would mean that a marine would have to cover his team mate while he is taking out the DI. Instead of a "pustule" what about a pulsating vein like structure. I just do not want to feel like I am running around the face of a 10yr old with an acme problem. For some reason I keep thinking of the light sensitive flying pizza things that stuck to the walls on Star Trek.
I am just worried unless care is given, Marines could simple run to hallways and corridors and ninja out entire rooms with a few kamikaze runs.
If im understanding this idea correctly, it's the same(or similar) way creep is spread in star craft 2 ?
That actually seems like an interesting idea, the 'pustule' (as in starcraft 2) could be vulnerable as it is being constructed. But once it has 'grown' it becomes invisible/invulnerable(?) requiring the marine commander to use a scan to reveal it. Would be a nice way to start getting the observatory/scan feature used more often (during this stage of the beta)
Maybe a silly question but...would that be breaking any copy right laws (if it does end up being done the same way)??
Random idea, if the above is accurate....The 'pustule' or 'infestation pod' could <b>slowly</b> move around it's own infestation patch (much like whip walking) as a defense mechanism when it is taking damage. Marines would have a hard time taking out entire areas of infestation from a distance with ranged weapons plus minimal scanning. Of course the right speed would be found through testing so it's just enough movement to force the marine(s) to focus their aim.
This would probably be good for DI in general, that the stuff further in is harder to clear out, so attacking the edges is easier but less effective, while attacking the centre could kill off more but takes longer.
What about Aliens could "research" with 2nd or 3rd Hive or so, that they can build Infestation without pustules?
So that the flamer don't loose its purpose.
Maybe in combination with this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you insist of a early counter to DI, allow the switch-axe to be used as a slow weed whacker. This would mean that a marine would have to cover his team mate while he is taking out the DI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...so that the Pustule can only be killed with the switch axe.
This will prevent shotgunners from running around and killing random infestation patches.
(For consitency: Maybe the Pustule has a very hard carapace so that bullets can't hurt it. But the marine can slide the axe under it and do damage this way (maybe with the 2nd axe attack... or so) )
Will this be something static that the KharaaComm drops, like the creep nodes in SC2, or a moving AI entity that the commander can direct? If it's the latter, why not give Drifters a "deployed-mode" where they cannot hover but are forced to crawl, and spread infestation in their wake?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Railgun will be great against Fades, but they won’t be able to chase them down - they will need to ambush them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you ambush something that can teleport instantly? This seems like the farthest-from-intuitive weapon that should be taking down Fades. I figured Flamethrowers would be the weapon to deal with lifeforms that are too fast to shoot at (Fades, Lerk).
It can either run away or die.
Although it is a bit odd that the sniper rifle (I think the railgun is a sniper yes?) is good against fades.
I mean precison weapons would logically be best against support classes like gorges and lerks, by virtue of their precision.
That way, Flamethrowers aren't useless against DI compared to high damage dealing weapons.
You realise it already works like that, only you can't see or shoot the centre bit?
<ul><li>This way you wont have the problem of an invisible system (behind the scenes)</li><li>When the Hive or CC goes down, the round ends. Instead of having this second target (the main room resnodes) messing with the gameplay.</li><li>It makes the Hive and CC even more important for game play purposes</li><li>Gameplay: Having more rooms for resource nodes in between the main tech point rooms, opening up more tactics on a map</li></ul>
It might be completely different from NS, but hell NS2 ain't NS now is it. One thing which speak against this is the fact you can't take out their resource production anymore by taking out the nodes in the main rooms. But this is a cause of a problem, which introduces a smaller problem if you weigh the two against each other IMHO :)
This way you wont have the problem of an invisible system (behind the scenes)
When the Hive or CC goes down, the round ends. instead of having this problem of losing the last resource node.
It makes the Hive and CC even more important for game play purposes
Gameplay: Having more rooms for resource nodes in between the main tech point rooms, opening up more tactics on a map
It might be completely different from NS, but hell NS2 ain't NS now is it :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This makes a lot of sense... +1
I especially like that CC/Hives become more important with this solution. It would probably get rid of the strategy where 2nd CC is recycled after main being upgraded - a strategy that shouldn't make sense IMO.
EDIT
Then again... this strategy might actually be interesting once we get tier3 tech. Kind of an early all-in build...
That way, Flamethrowers aren't useless against DI compared to high damage dealing weapons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Assuming these Pustules are immobile tumors and not moving entities, if being 'On Fire' prevented the regeneration of Energy for structures in the same way it prevents the regeneration of Adrenaline for players...
Pustules can be given an Energy Pool and an auto-cast ability that uses said Energy to maintain the DI. Then Flamethrowers will cause Infestation dependent on that pustule to recede before the pustule is destroyed.
Although you could still just destroy the pustule with any other weapon and problem is solved, probably quicker. So all other weapons are to become as effective against Infestation as Flamethrowers?
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the subject of the last resource node, why not change the concept completely. By removing the resource nodes from tech point rooms and instead have the Hive and CC itself produces resources at the same rate the initial restower did...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SOLVED
maybe.
This could work if the conversion rate varied based on how many players were in the team. Otherwise it wouldn't scale well.
But then again, if it's based on how many players are on the team, that would make it a bit... exploitable.
Heh, I had to look at the page (and then maximize this chat thingy) to see what you're talking about. There be chat in there... hmmkay...
i am a google docs noob so yeah, probably.
Something like:
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/paisand/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCJWKiKXqxuL11AE&feat=directlink" target="_blank">https://picasaweb.google.com/paisand/DropBo...feat=directlink</a>
I have no idea of the name of that plant/flower, but looks good for the game.
- This really shouldn’t be happening often - if it is, I’m thinking it’s map problem or possibly a problem with the base extractor/harvester being too snipable. Leaving it alone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This feels like the core issue. <b>Extractors/Harvesters go down too fast</b>:
One Skulk can patrol the whole map relatively unhindered (vents) and take out any ResTowers faster than you can place them. A single uninterrupted Skulk can destroy an RT in 40 seconds. Theoretically it should take two Skulks 20 seconds to take down an RT (13 seconds for 3, and 10 seconds for 4), but it usually takes even less as any Skulk can distract multiple Marines while the others continue attacking the RT. If 4 Skulks are attacking a ResTower, it's Gone in 10 Seconds. To put things in perspective, it takes 9 seconds for a Marine to RUN from MarineStart to Overlook (despite the suggested travel time of 15 seconds for a 1-5 Tech Point map, which would further exacerbate the problem).
True in standard RTSs it probably takes less time for a comparable structure to be destroyed, but you also have considerably more units in these games to go around defending structures. My point is, it takes 4 minutes for a ResTower just to reclaim the 20 TRes spent to drop the damned thing, and most don't survive TO that point, much less PAST it, so there seems to be very little incentive for dropping RTs. The moment they're dropped it becomes a hopeless uphill battle just to keep them afloat.
So why not just buff up the HP of RTs (and slow down the repair/regen rate of structures to compensate for the increased difficulty of destroying structures)?
How about allowing DI to take damage from the GL and/or SG. Another possibility is to decrease the DI HP the further it is from a hive.