Maybe some kind of mobile IP so that marines can spawn near the action? Or perhaps a commander special ability to instantly 'phase' a newly spawning marine to the battle (that costs personal res ofc)
What we need I reckon is the ability for the skulks to latch onto the marines...
Simply work like this;
If you bite a marine and not let go of the lmb the skulk stays locked onto the marine it doesn't do any more damage to the marine but it just slows them down till the skulk lets go..
Could also be effective against jet packs skulks could leap and latch onto jet packing marines which would drag them out of the air...
<!--quoteo(post=1847854:date=May 22 2011, 10:22 AM:name=kabab)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kabab @ May 22 2011, 10:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847854"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What we need I reckon is the ability for the skulks to latch onto the marines...
Simply work like this;
If you bite a marine and not let go of the lmb the skulk stays locked onto the marine it doesn't do any more damage to the marine but it just slows them down till the skulk lets go..
Could also be effective against jet packs skulks could leap and latch onto jet packing marines which would drag them out of the air...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol that is such a cool idea but won't that make the skulk a real easy target? You get bit once then turn around the skulk is right there not running around looking for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th bite.
those fast running marines are a pain in the ass, yes. Raged about it in a few games too. And that they can just "outrun" Hydras is just stupid, as they already have all the advantages with FT and Grenades.
Make movement of Skulks and Marines like they were in NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1847886:date=May 23 2011, 12:23 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ May 23 2011, 12:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847886"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lol that is such a cool idea but won't that make the skulk a real easy target? You get bit once then turn around the skulk is right there not running around looking for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th bite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well you would do it when you have help..
<!--quoteo(post=1847892:date=May 22 2011, 03:47 PM:name=SeaStorm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SeaStorm @ May 22 2011, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->those fast running marines are a pain in the ass, yes. Raged about it in a few games too. And that they can just "outrun" <b>Hydras </b>is just stupid, as they already have all the advantages with FT and Grenades.
Make movement of Skulks and Marines like they were in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You think its stupid that marines can outrun a immobile turret? That made me lol :P
I dont like this thread. I like to feel fast, and agile. If its a balance issue, I think it should rather be solved by increasing skulk speed, than decreasing marine speed.
<!--quoteo(post=1847974:date=May 23 2011, 09:20 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ May 23 2011, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847974"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like this thread. I like to feel fast, and agile. If its a balance issue, I think it should rather be solved by increasing skulk speed, than decreasing marine speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wisdom.
<!--quoteo(post=1847974:date=May 22 2011, 09:20 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ May 22 2011, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1847974"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont like this thread. I like to feel fast, and agile. If its a balance issue, I think it should rather be solved by increasing skulk speed, than decreasing marine speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This would exacerbate the chaos of melee combat. Things are impossible to bite when they're passing in and out of your periphery at the speed of sound, and you want to move at the speed of light?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are Marines so fast<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines aren't fast.
It is just that over the years while NS2 has been created the Aliens have got rather fat and lazy. The <b>skulk ate too much</b> and increased his hit box and decreased his speed. The <b>gorge ate too much slime off the wall </b>and made himself useless. and the <b>lerk smoked too much spore gas</b> and got so high he can't fly properly anymore... We got a new fade because the old one was too because preaching the beatitudes of Jesus. The new fade is better though, old fade made angry towards God.
A little off topic, but yes the hit boxes need some work however I think there's a problem with the mental aspect with skulk bite that working against players in this current build.
As of build 177 I think most players still have that spray and pray mentally right now and just holds onto the attack button hoping to land a bite on a marine in combat. I found this to be very un-accurate because of four things, hit boxes aren't working properly, the skulk biting cone of attack isn't very large at the moment, the gaps in time between biting and lag. All this together makes it very hard for most players to hit a marine when holding onto the attack button fighting a them.
I found it more accurate to just aim and bite once when close enough to a marine while trying to run circles around a them. It makes a player aim more careful and hopefully increasing their accuracy of bite in this current build of the game.
It is just that over the years while NS2 has been created the Aliens have got rather fat and lazy. The <b>skulk ate too much</b> and increased his hit box and decreased his speed. The <b>gorge ate too much slime off the wall </b>and made himself useless. and the <b>lerk smoked too much spore gas</b> and got so high he can't fly properly anymore... We got a new fade because the old one was too because preaching the beatitudes of Jesus. The new fade is better though, old fade made angry towards God.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why is there so much fat in the marines ? Aliens needs to find a healthier diet. I also think that the marines move too fast. As a Fade once set on fire, you can't blink and can't reach them. That's why I had the idea that aliens could have a small speed boost when on fire. It could help them run like hell without giving too much of an advantage.
<!--quoteo(post=1849573:date=Jun 2 2011, 10:02 AM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Jun 2 2011, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^terrible sentiment. Bunnyhop will save NS2. At least for skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bunnyhoppping for skulks would be great and would help NS2.
Saint RawJoin Date: 2011-05-18Member: 99414Members
<!--quoteo(post=1849648:date=Jun 2 2011, 08:05 PM:name=Papayas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Papayas @ Jun 2 2011, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhoppping for skulks would be great and would help NS2.
Only skulks should get it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, add bunnyhop and complain about the current wall-stickiness code. Fix one problem and add another isn't the way to go. I am not against b-hop as long as the sticky code stays active and UWE doesn't listen to whiners. I found some godless bunny-skulks to be overpowered in NS1. I like the stickiness of skulks because it adds the on wall strafing ability, which I do need to master. But Yeah.
The problem of players lies in the ability to use leap well. I'm not generally a good player but the (imo) low skulk base speed is severly compensated by leap. I pistol whip failing aliens but have a hard time shotgunning good leaping skulks.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We got a new fade because the old one was too because preaching the beatitudes of Jesus. The new fade is better though, old fade made angry towards God.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha. Wait...what?
I don't want the marine's mobility to be crippled in any way but I would like it if there were some tweaks to force him to play a little slower and more tactical. Like most other FPS games, it's far too easy to get good at running around and killing things quickly. You may say..."well I have skill -- I'm really good". That's great, I'm no slouch myself ("don't sell yourself short Josh, you're a tremendous slouch"...hey-oh!). I just don't want marine play to be twitch gaming like most other shooters.
I'd like to see marines: <ul><li> Make good use of map layout to their tactical advantage.</li><li> Use sentries effectively, and often, as area denial or support.</li><li> Stay together and fight as a squad (even with group bonuses, good players can still go bat-crazy on aliens).</li><li> Be immersed in a type of sci-fi atmosphere.</li></ul>
<!--quoteo(post=1849650:date=Jun 2 2011, 11:14 AM:name=Saint Raw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Saint Raw @ Jun 2 2011, 11:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sure, add bunnyhop and complain about the current wall-stickiness code. Fix one problem and add another isn't the way to go. I am not against b-hop as long as the sticky code stays active and UWE doesn't listen to whiners. I found some godless bunny-skulks to be overpowered in NS1. I like the stickiness of skulks because it adds the on wall strafing ability, which I do need to master. But Yeah.
The problem of players lies in the ability to use leap well. I'm not generally a good player but the (imo) low skulk base speed is severly compensated by leap. I pistol whip failing aliens but have a hard time shotgunning good leaping skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't exclusive to each other, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. A good NS1 skulk blended bhop, wall walking, and leap seamlessly. And OP? They should have been. The skill ceiling should be high with something to always learn. This has been said many times in multiple threads but most modern games have a fairly obtainable mastery level which makes the game boring and easy too soon.
I always like bunny hopping in FPS games...or rather I always do bunny hop..because the option is there (if its there)...and its effective at confusing your opponent, avoiding fire and taking advantage of lag. I do it even though I think it looks absolutely stupid. Its an aesthetic and immersion issue...unless you also take issue with the gameplay it creates. In shooters that don't even have a jump option (or not effective for combat), I don't miss the inability to bunny hop. Its a bit of a crutch if you need it for every shooter you play. I won't miss bunny hopping in NS2. Its for the better that it goes. It ok for quake and tribish type FPS games, but feels out of place in NS2 ..which has on the marine side a quasi squad tactical shooter feel to it.
As for sprint, I think its fine. Overall mobility of the marine (minus jump) feels fine. Maybe slow back pedal a tad. I would fix skulk bite (and size please), and then see how we feel about it. As hit detection and lag improves, I think we will take less issue with marine speed.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
I think bunnyjumping should be added to the skulk, as a way of getting momentum, at giving the skulk at skill-based movement. Instead of doing it the NS1 way, where you either had to use mousescroll or a script, or be a extreme master in timing jumps; Make jumping queued. So that you can hold down space before you hit the ground. That way it will be much easier for new players to learn it. And it will still be hard to master. Skulks also need their walljumping back, but I guess thats on UWE's secret list somewhere ;) This bunnyjumping model should only apply to skulks, and it has been proved that it works in other games. (Q3 Arena) More on-topic: Marines should run out of breath for a while when they sprint a certain distance. Fixing bouncing/jumping marines is on the to-do list.
Read this guys sig. It sums up Bunnyhopping pretty well. Lets move on from the past. Bhopping is a glitch and needs to be weeded out. It looks absolutely retarded and makes no sense. Adds another level of skill? There are plenty of other moves that show skill.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
I read his signature before posting my last post. Still, the skulk need some kind of skill-based movement. That can give him momentum(potential speed increase) if he does it right. The first, and easiest thing I can come up with is, Bunnyjumping. If you have another suggestion to what this could be instead of bunnyjumping, please share it. Yes, it adds another level of skill, other moves don't have anything to do with that.
<!--quoteo(post=1849774:date=Jun 3 2011, 12:00 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 3 2011, 12:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glitches arent skill... Pure and simple<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a pretty broad statement, and in this case I especially disagree. TBH, the only logical arguments against bhop seem to come from people who have first learned how and then form an educated opinion on the matter (these people generally mention reasons aside from 'glitch').
I do think the majority does agree against bhop marines, but for the aliens we need mechanics like this. Why are marines so fast? They aren't, the aliens are just slower. Keep in mind a marine can't sprint and shoot either, and its not like they can run in any direction other than forward so MvA combat is pretty much unaffected by sprint.
Bhopping is not needed for skulks in NS2 because they have leap implemented right away from the start.
Im not sure why they're so many complaints that skulks cant catch marines. A few well placed leaps easily closes the gap. Maybe this is where skill needs to be developed.
If we needed a buff or nerf : - A small increase to skulks speed or decrease in marines speed (since they have sprint anyways) would be a much better solution than implementing bunny hopping.
It looks absolutely retarded. We need to move on from that archaic system. This is 2011 right? Not 1996?
Comments
Simply work like this;
If you bite a marine and not let go of the lmb the skulk stays locked onto the marine it doesn't do any more damage to the marine but it just slows them down till the skulk lets go..
Could also be effective against jet packs skulks could leap and latch onto jet packing marines which would drag them out of the air...
Simply work like this;
If you bite a marine and not let go of the lmb the skulk stays locked onto the marine it doesn't do any more damage to the marine but it just slows them down till the skulk lets go..
Could also be effective against jet packs skulks could leap and latch onto jet packing marines which would drag them out of the air...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol that is such a cool idea but won't that make the skulk a real easy target? You get bit once then turn around the skulk is right there not running around looking for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th bite.
If you had a skulk or a fade chasing you in real life would you not run for your f**king life?
But yes i do agree marines are very fast. Nothing needs to be done about it till everything is implemented imo
Make movement of Skulks and Marines like they were in NS1.
Well you would do it when you have help..
Kinda like how big cats hunt.
Make movement of Skulks and Marines like they were in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think its stupid that marines can outrun a immobile turret? That made me lol :P
I dont like this thread. I like to feel fast, and agile. If its a balance issue, I think it should rather be solved by increasing skulk speed, than decreasing marine speed.
Of course, the need for sprint will be lessened when PG's are implemented or if UWE allowed you to choose where you would spawn.
Wisdom.
This would exacerbate the chaos of melee combat. Things are impossible to bite when they're passing in and out of your periphery at the speed of sound, and you want to move at the speed of light?
Marines aren't fast.
It is just that over the years while NS2 has been created the Aliens have got rather fat and lazy. The <b>skulk ate too much</b> and increased his hit box and decreased his speed. The <b>gorge ate too much slime off the wall </b>and made himself useless. and the <b>lerk smoked too much spore gas</b> and got so high he can't fly properly anymore...
We got a new fade because the old one was too because preaching the beatitudes of Jesus. The new fade is better though, old fade made angry towards God.
As of build 177 I think most players still have that spray and pray mentally right now and just holds onto the attack button hoping to land a bite on a marine in combat. I found this to be very un-accurate because of four things, hit boxes aren't working properly, the skulk biting cone of attack isn't very large at the moment, the gaps in time between biting and lag. All this together makes it very hard for most players to hit a marine when holding onto the attack button fighting a them.
I found it more accurate to just aim and bite once when close enough to a marine while trying to run circles around a them. It makes a player aim more careful and hopefully increasing their accuracy of bite in this current build of the game.
It is just that over the years while NS2 has been created the Aliens have got rather fat and lazy. The <b>skulk ate too much</b> and increased his hit box and decreased his speed. The <b>gorge ate too much slime off the wall </b>and made himself useless. and the <b>lerk smoked too much spore gas</b> and got so high he can't fly properly anymore...
We got a new fade because the old one was too because preaching the beatitudes of Jesus. The new fade is better though, old fade made angry towards God.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But why is there so much fat in the marines ? Aliens needs to find a healthier diet.
I also think that the marines move too fast. As a Fade once set on fire, you can't blink and can't reach them. That's why I had the idea that aliens could have a small speed boost when on fire. It could help them run like hell without giving too much of an advantage.
Bunnyhoppping for skulks would be great and would help NS2.
Only skulks should get it though.
Only skulks should get it though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, add bunnyhop and complain about the current wall-stickiness code.
Fix one problem and add another isn't the way to go. I am not against b-hop as long as the sticky code stays active and UWE doesn't listen to whiners. I found some godless bunny-skulks to be overpowered in NS1. I like the stickiness of skulks because it adds the on wall strafing ability, which I do need to master. But Yeah.
The problem of players lies in the ability to use leap well. I'm not generally a good player but the (imo) low skulk base speed is severly compensated by leap. I pistol whip failing aliens but have a hard time shotgunning good leaping skulks.
Haha. Wait...what?
I don't want the marine's mobility to be crippled in any way but I would like it if there were some tweaks to force him to play a little slower and more tactical. Like most other FPS games, it's far too easy to get good at running around and killing things quickly. You may say..."well I have skill -- I'm really good". That's great, I'm no slouch myself ("don't sell yourself short Josh, you're a tremendous slouch"...hey-oh!). I just don't want marine play to be twitch gaming like most other shooters.
I'd like to see marines:
<ul><li> Make good use of map layout to their tactical advantage.</li><li> Use sentries effectively, and often, as area denial or support.</li><li> Stay together and fight as a squad (even with group bonuses, good players can still go bat-crazy on aliens).</li><li> Be immersed in a type of sci-fi atmosphere.</li></ul>
Fix one problem and add another isn't the way to go. I am not against b-hop as long as the sticky code stays active and UWE doesn't listen to whiners. I found some godless bunny-skulks to be overpowered in NS1. I like the stickiness of skulks because it adds the on wall strafing ability, which I do need to master. But Yeah.
The problem of players lies in the ability to use leap well. I'm not generally a good player but the (imo) low skulk base speed is severly compensated by leap. I pistol whip failing aliens but have a hard time shotgunning good leaping skulks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They aren't exclusive to each other, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. A good NS1 skulk blended bhop, wall walking, and leap seamlessly. And OP? They should have been. The skill ceiling should be high with something to always learn. This has been said many times in multiple threads but most modern games have a fairly obtainable mastery level which makes the game boring and easy too soon.
V
As for sprint, I think its fine. Overall mobility of the marine (minus jump) feels fine. Maybe slow back pedal a tad. I would fix skulk bite (and size please), and then see how we feel about it. As hit detection and lag improves, I think we will take less issue with marine speed.
agreed!
Instead of doing it the NS1 way, where you either had to use mousescroll or a script, or be a extreme master in timing jumps;
Make jumping queued. So that you can hold down space before you hit the ground. That way it will be much easier for new players to learn it. And it will still be hard to master. Skulks also need their walljumping back, but I guess thats on UWE's secret list somewhere ;)
This bunnyjumping model should only apply to skulks, and it has been proved that it works in other games. (Q3 Arena)
More on-topic:
Marines should run out of breath for a while when they sprint a certain distance.
Fixing bouncing/jumping marines is on the to-do list.
V<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read this guys sig. It sums up Bunnyhopping pretty well. Lets move on from the past. Bhopping is a glitch and needs to be weeded out. It looks absolutely retarded and makes no sense.
Adds another level of skill? There are plenty of other moves that show skill.
Still, the skulk need some kind of skill-based movement. That can give him momentum(potential speed increase) if he does it right. The first, and easiest thing I can come up with is, Bunnyjumping. If you have another suggestion to what this could be instead of bunnyjumping, please share it.
Yes, it adds another level of skill, other moves don't have anything to do with that.
That's a pretty broad statement, and in this case I especially disagree. TBH, the only logical arguments against bhop seem to come from people who have first learned how and then form an educated opinion on the matter (these people generally mention reasons aside from 'glitch').
I do think the majority does agree against bhop marines, but for the aliens we need mechanics like this. Why are marines so fast? They aren't, the aliens are just slower. Keep in mind a marine can't sprint and shoot either, and its not like they can run in any direction other than forward so MvA combat is pretty much unaffected by sprint.
Bhop mod will probably be here soon regardless.
Im not sure why they're so many complaints that skulks cant catch marines. A few well placed leaps easily closes the gap. Maybe this is where skill needs to be developed.
If we needed a buff or nerf :
- A small increase to skulks speed or decrease in marines speed (since they have sprint anyways) would be a much better solution than implementing bunny hopping.
It looks absolutely retarded. We need to move on from that archaic system. This is 2011 right? Not 1996?