I agree, please no bunny hopping. I have been playing FPS's since wolfenstein 3d so I know how to use bunny hopping. As the above post mentioned, it is a horrible way to balance a game.
Also, the skulks was and has never been a full on assault class. If you need to bunny hop to close the distance between a marine, you probably shouldn't be attacking him in the first place. Skulks were always and still are a ambush class. You only attack when the distances are small and you have a clear tactical advantage. The only exception is when you're hunting in packs.
I never have problems catching marines currently, but I wait for them to come to me. Once I get the ambush and they begin to flee, I use leap to get right back on top of them.
That being said, I would be fine with a small speed increase if it is really needed, but I don't feel the problem is the speed. I think it is a number of larger issues. We have lag, poor hitbox detection, rough physics, bunny hopping marines, and so on. I think once all these things get polished up, skulks will be more deadly; if not, then we can balance them further.
<!--quoteo(post=1849778:date=Jun 3 2011, 08:37 PM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Jun 3 2011, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a pretty broad statement, and in this case I especially disagree. TBH, the only logical arguments against bhop seem to come from people who have first learned how and then form an educated opinion on the matter (these people generally mention reasons aside from 'glitch').<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me "it's a glitch" always seemed like a perfectly reasonable argument. The hopping was never intended behavior, it was a glitch. Of course it takes skill to exploit the glitch properly but that doesn't change what it is. Regardless of how skilled you are at the game you shouldn't be able to break the game world's intended physics, e.g. armored humans should not be faster than 4 legged killing machines even if they are skilled long-jumpers. A limited sprint would be ok, indefinite hopping not so much.
But you're right, that's not the only reason bhopping is a bad idea. Regarding NS2, why should skulks be the only ones who need some arcane combination of keyboard and mouse movements to move at their optimal speed? The skill should be in tactical analysis of a situation, knowing when to leap and when to sneak, moving unpredictably to dodge marine fire. Running to marine start at optimal speed should not require me to repeat strange key combinations over and over.
Even if skulks were not agile enough, bhop would not be the right way to fix it.
<!--quoteo(post=1849803:date=Jun 3 2011, 02:45 PM:name=marsvin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marsvin @ Jun 3 2011, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849803"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But you're right, that's not the only reason bhopping is a bad idea. Regarding NS2, why should skulks be the only ones who need some arcane combination of keyboard and mouse movements to move at their optimal speed? The skill should be in tactical analysis of a situation, knowing when to leap and when to sneak, moving unpredictably to dodge marine fire. Running to marine start at optimal speed should not require me to repeat strange key combinations over and over.
Even if skulks were not agile enough, bhop would not be the right way to fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't know how to bhop, do you?
It's not an arcane combination at all, I found out how to strafe jump playing single player half life. Tactical analysis? Yes, when to bhop, when to wall walk/wall jump, moving unpredictably all falls into the NS1 skulk movement.
I'm not expecting marines to get strafejump or bhop, though strafejump was welcomed in hl1 as a way to get a "running jump". Skulks should get air control and skill based acceleration, but if you think adding a slight angle with the mouse as you strafe in air constitutes "arcane mystic keyboard mouse powerup combos" then I can see why you don't understand it at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1849907:date=Jun 4 2011, 12:08 PM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Jun 4 2011, 12:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't know how to bhop, do you?
It's not an arcane combination at all, I found out how to strafe jump playing single player half life. Tactical analysis? Yes, when to bhop, when to wall walk/wall jump, moving unpredictably all falls into the NS1 skulk movement.
I'm not expecting marines to get strafejump or bhop, though strafejump was welcomed in hl1 as a way to get a "running jump". Skulks should get air control and skill based acceleration, but if you think adding a slight angle with the mouse as you strafe in air constitutes "arcane mystic keyboard mouse powerup combos" then I can see why you don't understand it at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether you know how to bunny hop or not it doesn't change the fact that bunnyhopping is completely unneeded in this game because skulks get leap right away.
Besides, it makes no sense what-so-ever that you would move faster running sideways (since technically that's what you're doing) than you would be running forward. Its abusing an old engine. You're just defending a rather cheap move with the basis that "its another skill level for skulks." Honestly,I bunnyhop, I know how effective it can be but also how cheap and stupid it looks. NS2 is not the game for such a "tactic."
The developers actively decided to keep bhop in the game for the aliens. Bhops origins are irrelevant, in NS it was a feature, not a glitch. I'd like to see something similar in NS2. But it has to be something that can be taught in the game - that didn't work well with bhop.
Regarding the marine speed, if I remember correctly, sprint was introduced to compensate for the lack of PGs. Now that PGs are coming back, maybe get rid of sprint? Skulks could also use a slight speed increase.
<!--quoteo(post=1849912:date=Jun 4 2011, 03:50 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 4 2011, 03:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its abusing an old engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not in the engine, it never was in the engine. It's right there in the mod code, inherited from the HL:DM example project that mod-developers used as a basis to start from.
<!--quoteo(post=1849912:date=Jun 4 2011, 12:50 PM:name=Wiltdog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wiltdog @ Jun 4 2011, 12:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849912"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whether you know how to bunny hop or not it doesn't change the fact that bunnyhopping is completely unneeded in this game because skulks get leap right away.
Besides, it makes no sense what-so-ever that you would move faster running sideways (since technically that's what you're doing) than you would be running forward. Its abusing an old engine. You're just defending a rather cheap move with the basis that "its another skill level for skulks." Honestly,I bunnyhop, I know how effective it can be but also how cheap and stupid it looks. NS2 is not the game for such a "tactic."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not knowing how to bhop produces a selection effect in how many people want bhop in the game because the people that don't know how to will almost as a rule vote against it. As Lazer said earlier in the topic the only even logical/relevant arguments against bhop come from people who have learned how to and then judged its merit in actual gameplay.
We're not talking about what makes sense, you guys are unbelievable to talk to sometimes. If I say that that rifle casing ejecting into your FOV is annoying, distracting, and unrealistic you will say "It's about gameplay, not realism", but if I say that bunnyhop adds a certain gameplay dynamic and learning curve that keeps players coming back for more, suddenly realism is the ultimate priority. Maybe you should focus on how realistic fade blink is then?
As people have stated, in NS it was less of an exploit than an actual feature. And no, bunnyhop isn't as overpowered a technique as you're making it out to be.
<!--quoteo(post=1849927:date=Jun 4 2011, 03:40 PM:name=Soylent_green)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soylent_green @ Jun 4 2011, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849927"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not in the engine, it never was in the engine. It's right there in the mod code, inherited from the HL:DM example project that mod-developers used as a basis to start from.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bhopping has been in the engine since 1996. Whether its a mod or not, its still based off the same foundation, one that allows bhop.
"QuakeWorld, Counter-Strike and Team Fortress Classic use derivatives of the Quake <b>engine</b>, so the techniques used to perform bunny-hopping in these games are nearly identical"
See also:
Exploit (online gaming)
And regarding Realism. There is a nice fine distinction between realism and reality. This game is unreal in the sense that there's aliens for christs sake. But, for the world of NS2 it is realistic because it adheres to the properties designated in this universe but it doesn't pertain to actual reality.
Call of duty strives for realism, but it doesn't attempt to mimic reality. You dont respawn or regenerate health in a real life battlefield.
For skulks maybe add the ability (or upgrade) to do a "mini leap" similar to the beast leap in Savage, which is like a 'shuffle lunge'...not sure how to describe it. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E8u0sxqd04&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E8u0sxqd04...feature=related</a>. Maybe not as spammable
Similar to the new Fade blink, you double tap in a certain direction to quickly execute this mini leap. Not ideal for traveling the map with (the current leap would be more efficient for that), but more useful for close combat... and could be used immediately after the current leap for a little extra assault range.
<!--quoteo(post=1849976:date=Jun 4 2011, 10:45 PM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jun 4 2011, 10:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849976"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For skulks maybe add the ability (or upgrade) to do a "mini leap" similar to the beast leap in Savage, which is like a 'shuffle lunge'...not sure how to describe it. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E8u0sxqd04&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E8u0sxqd04...feature=related</a>. Maybe not as spammable
Similar to the new Fade blink, you double tap in a certain direction to quickly execute this mini leap. Not ideal for traveling the map with (the current leap would be more efficient for that), but more useful for close combat... and could be used immediately after the current leap for a little extra assault range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah that seems a bit better.. a tiny assault lunge, giving the regular leap a bit more range control in a way, rather than just how high/low you aim. It'd lend itself to skill movement while still being more intuitive, it's an interesting Idea to consider.
Though honestly I don't have trouble catching marines so much as biting them sometimes at the moment is difficult with the odd bite detect size.
To be honest , the only real dislike I have for bhopping is the visually jarring spectical of a force of armoured marines ' flouncing off to the waypoint ', give 'em some dresses then if they want to prance about :P
... on the left foot , quick bounce ... come on ladies move them buns! OI! Foster , bounce at regulation height only man!
Thats why I prefer sprinting , though it should have a limit to the duration so its more a tactical choice when to use it.
<!--quoteo(post=1849994:date=Jun 5 2011, 05:37 PM:name=riner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riner @ Jun 5 2011, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1849994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ns without bhop is boring<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This
I don't understand the great opposition to bhopping. It seems to be a case of "well in ns1 I couldn't do it and ppl that could killed me. Therefore I don't want it." But the case was that bhop was only really use to attack in pubs when you could rely on the marines not being able to aim. When it was used against anyone that could aim then to bhop at a marine was a death sentence.
In reality bhop was uses as a quick and interesting way to get around the map. This cannot be simply replaced by just increasing the movement speed (say with sprint or similar) as this type of replacement is just not interesting.
I have played quite a few games of ns2 and its just boring. Its still ns but its just not the same type of fun. I think it is all the little things that have been dumbed down (such as bhop) which have cause this. I was worried. But going by the recent trend of features I can see that ns2 is heading back down the ns1 path so it should hopefully turn out fine
The main reason I support the removal of marine bhop is for the immersion and aesthetics of the game..with a few gameplay implications that go along with it. It just doesn't fit in the NS world. It breaks my <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief" target="_blank">suspension of disbelief</a>. It actually takes away something from the alien side. It makes allowing aliens to get close matter less. There is less fear of close combat with aliens, since the marines are super hero jumping ninjas. Its friendly towards rambo-ing, and does nothing to promote staying together as marines.
I played plenty of shooters where bhop doesn't bother me. It fits in the games world. I know that properly bhoping takes skill, but its one of many things that take skill in the game. Imo 3rd person melee is not only more fun, but allows for more skill to shine through than 1st person melee. OF course, its never going to happen due to immersion and aesthetics the devs want for the game (and in this case I would agree with them). If bhop makes or breaks the game, something is wrong.
Bottomline, I think it takes away more from the game then it adds.
I don't care about bunny hopping for aliens, but please don't create a game where fully armoured human soldiers bounce around as if their legs are springs! It breaks suspension of disbelief. I would be very happy with a system like Day of Defeat Source where players will be fatigued if they keep jumping....you could only jump once or twice before a cool down period set in.
<!--quoteo(post=1850002:date=Jun 5 2011, 01:48 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Jun 5 2011, 01:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850002"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To be honest , the only real dislike I have for bhopping is the visually jarring spectical of a force of armoured marines ' flouncing off to the waypoint ', give 'em some dresses then if they want to prance about :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1850043:date=Jun 5 2011, 08:06 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 5 2011, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't care about bunny hopping for aliens, but please don't create a game where fully armoured human soldiers bounce around as if their legs are springs!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1850042:date=Jun 5 2011, 07:45 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jun 5 2011, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is less fear of close combat with aliens, since the marines are super hero jumping ninjas. Its friendly towards rambo-ing, and does nothing to promote staying together as marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys go get that strawman.. Really even the most trollish of thread derailers into bhop discussions are just trying to get bhop back for skulk. Though.. now that you mention it, double jump and ramp bhopping with marine made walking across maps less boring. If UW takes the bhop discussion seriously, I'll concede and say bhop should be limited to skulk, fade (depending on how blink works so we can have strafe blinking), and yes gorge hah.
<!--quoteo(post=1850056:date=Jun 5 2011, 11:57 AM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Jun 5 2011, 11:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys go get that strawman.. Really even the most trollish of thread derailers into bhop discussions are just trying to get bhop back for skulk. Though.. now that you mention it, double jump and ramp bhopping with marine made walking across maps less boring. If UW takes the bhop discussion seriously, I'll concede and say bhop should be limited to skulk, fade (depending on how blink works so we can have strafe blinking), and yes gorge hah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ehh...Ive reread your post several times and im still not sure what exactly you are agreeing or disagreeing with...except that I agree skulks having bhop or something similar (less stupid looking) would be alright.
No need to patronize other posters wulf. Just because some people share an opinion doesn't mean they're attacking a straw man. It's possible to express an opinion without it being a response to an opposing opinion. I've played lots of games where you see human characters bhop around so I posted here that I don't want that in NS2 ¬ . ¬
<!--quoteo(post=1850059:date=Jun 5 2011, 10:34 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jun 5 2011, 10:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ehh...Ive reread your post several times and im still not sure what exactly you are agreeing or disagreeing with...except that I agree skulks having bhop or something similar (less stupid looking) would be alright.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bunnyhop for skulks. Depending on how blink works air control would be welcomed.
<!--quoteo(post=1850073:date=Jun 5 2011, 12:01 PM:name=wulf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wulf @ Jun 5 2011, 12:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850073"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bunnyhop for skulks. Depending on how blink works air control would be welcomed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with wulf. i have been revisiting ns 1 for the past few months recently because of my excitement for ns2 which i preordered :D and bhopping for a skulk is one of the best parts. For marines its debatable because of aesthetic. Also, bunny hopping for the gorge is very enjoyable as well. i love its unpredictableness by marines so i spit and then run away when i get celerity :) When I play ns2 right now the skulk feels too confined. The gorge in ns2 is decent its jump does a good job for running away but the skulk really needs its feet back. I am hoping all who are debating have played at least few hours of the original to see the caliber of game it use to be. Let the debate continue! :D
Comments
Also, the skulks was and has never been a full on assault class. If you need to bunny hop to close the distance between a marine, you probably shouldn't be attacking him in the first place. Skulks were always and still are a ambush class. You only attack when the distances are small and you have a clear tactical advantage. The only exception is when you're hunting in packs.
I never have problems catching marines currently, but I wait for them to come to me. Once I get the ambush and they begin to flee, I use leap to get right back on top of them.
That being said, I would be fine with a small speed increase if it is really needed, but I don't feel the problem is the speed. I think it is a number of larger issues. We have lag, poor hitbox detection, rough physics, bunny hopping marines, and so on. I think once all these things get polished up, skulks will be more deadly; if not, then we can balance them further.
To me "it's a glitch" always seemed like a perfectly reasonable argument. The hopping was never intended behavior, it was a glitch. Of course it takes skill to exploit the glitch properly but that doesn't change what it is. Regardless of how skilled you are at the game you shouldn't be able to break the game world's intended physics, e.g. armored humans should not be faster than 4 legged killing machines even if they are skilled long-jumpers. A limited sprint would be ok, indefinite hopping not so much.
But you're right, that's not the only reason bhopping is a bad idea. Regarding NS2, why should skulks be the only ones who need some arcane combination of keyboard and mouse movements to move at their optimal speed? The skill should be in tactical analysis of a situation, knowing when to leap and when to sneak, moving unpredictably to dodge marine fire. Running to marine start at optimal speed should not require me to repeat strange key combinations over and over.
Even if skulks were not agile enough, bhop would not be the right way to fix it.
Even if skulks were not agile enough, bhop would not be the right way to fix it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't know how to bhop, do you?
It's not an arcane combination at all, I found out how to strafe jump playing single player half life. Tactical analysis? Yes, when to bhop, when to wall walk/wall jump, moving unpredictably all falls into the NS1 skulk movement.
I'm not expecting marines to get strafejump or bhop, though strafejump was welcomed in hl1 as a way to get a "running jump". Skulks should get air control and skill based acceleration, but if you think adding a slight angle with the mouse as you strafe in air constitutes "arcane mystic keyboard mouse powerup combos" then I can see why you don't understand it at all.
It's not an arcane combination at all, I found out how to strafe jump playing single player half life. Tactical analysis? Yes, when to bhop, when to wall walk/wall jump, moving unpredictably all falls into the NS1 skulk movement.
I'm not expecting marines to get strafejump or bhop, though strafejump was welcomed in hl1 as a way to get a "running jump". Skulks should get air control and skill based acceleration, but if you think adding a slight angle with the mouse as you strafe in air constitutes "arcane mystic keyboard mouse powerup combos" then I can see why you don't understand it at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether you know how to bunny hop or not it doesn't change the fact that bunnyhopping is completely unneeded in this game because skulks get leap right away.
Besides, it makes no sense what-so-ever that you would move faster running sideways (since technically that's what you're doing) than you would be running forward. Its abusing an old engine. You're just defending a rather cheap move with the basis that "its another skill level for skulks." Honestly,I bunnyhop, I know how effective it can be but also how cheap and stupid it looks. NS2 is not the game for such a "tactic."
I'd like to see something similar in NS2. But it has to be something that can be taught in the game - that didn't work well with bhop.
Regarding the marine speed, if I remember correctly, sprint was introduced to compensate for the lack of PGs.
Now that PGs are coming back, maybe get rid of sprint?
Skulks could also use a slight speed increase.
It's not in the engine, it never was in the engine. It's right there in the mod code, inherited from the HL:DM example project that mod-developers used as a basis to start from.
Besides, it makes no sense what-so-ever that you would move faster running sideways (since technically that's what you're doing) than you would be running forward. Its abusing an old engine. You're just defending a rather cheap move with the basis that "its another skill level for skulks." Honestly,I bunnyhop, I know how effective it can be but also how cheap and stupid it looks. NS2 is not the game for such a "tactic."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not knowing how to bhop produces a selection effect in how many people want bhop in the game because the people that don't know how to will almost as a rule vote against it. As Lazer said earlier in the topic the only even logical/relevant arguments against bhop come from people who have learned how to and then judged its merit in actual gameplay.
We're not talking about what makes sense, you guys are unbelievable to talk to sometimes. If I say that that rifle casing ejecting into your FOV is annoying, distracting, and unrealistic you will say "It's about gameplay, not realism", but if I say that bunnyhop adds a certain gameplay dynamic and learning curve that keeps players coming back for more, suddenly realism is the ultimate priority. Maybe you should focus on how realistic fade blink is then?
As people have stated, in NS it was less of an exploit than an actual feature. And no, bunnyhop isn't as overpowered a technique as you're making it out to be.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_hopping" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_hopping</a>
Bhopping has been in the engine since 1996. Whether its a mod or not, its still based off the same foundation, one that allows bhop.
"QuakeWorld, Counter-Strike and Team Fortress Classic use derivatives of the Quake <b>engine</b>, so the techniques used to perform bunny-hopping in these games are nearly identical"
See also:
Exploit (online gaming)
And regarding Realism. There is a nice fine distinction between realism and reality. This game is unreal in the sense that there's aliens for christs sake. But, for the world of NS2 it is realistic because it adheres to the properties designated in this universe but it doesn't pertain to actual reality.
Call of duty strives for realism, but it doesn't attempt to mimic reality. You dont respawn or regenerate health in a real life battlefield.
Similar to the new Fade blink, you double tap in a certain direction to quickly execute this mini leap. Not ideal for traveling the map with (the current leap would be more efficient for that), but more useful for close combat... and could be used immediately after the current leap for a little extra assault range.
Similar to the new Fade blink, you double tap in a certain direction to quickly execute this mini leap. Not ideal for traveling the map with (the current leap would be more efficient for that), but more useful for close combat... and could be used immediately after the current leap for a little extra assault range.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah that seems a bit better.. a tiny assault lunge, giving the regular leap a bit more range control in a way, rather than just how high/low you aim. It'd lend itself to skill movement while still being more intuitive, it's an interesting Idea to consider.
Though honestly I don't have trouble catching marines so much as biting them sometimes at the moment is difficult with the odd bite detect size.
... on the left foot , quick bounce ... come on ladies move them buns!
OI! Foster , bounce at regulation height only man!
Thats why I prefer sprinting , though it should have a limit to the duration so its more a tactical choice when to use it.
This
I don't understand the great opposition to bhopping. It seems to be a case of "well in ns1 I couldn't do it and ppl that could killed me. Therefore I don't want it."
But the case was that bhop was only really use to attack in pubs when you could rely on the marines not being able to aim. When it was used against anyone that could aim then to bhop at a marine was a death sentence.
In reality bhop was uses as a quick and interesting way to get around the map. This cannot be simply replaced by just increasing the movement speed (say with sprint or similar) as this type of replacement is just not interesting.
I have played quite a few games of ns2 and its just boring. Its still ns but its just not the same type of fun. I think it is all the little things that have been dumbed down (such as bhop) which have cause this. I was worried. But going by the recent trend of features I can see that ns2 is heading back down the ns1 path so it should hopefully turn out fine
I played plenty of shooters where bhop doesn't bother me. It fits in the games world. I know that properly bhoping takes skill, but its one of many things that take skill in the game. Imo 3rd person melee is not only more fun, but allows for more skill to shine through than 1st person melee. OF course, its never going to happen due to immersion and aesthetics the devs want for the game (and in this case I would agree with them). If bhop makes or breaks the game, something is wrong.
Bottomline, I think it takes away more from the game then it adds.
<!--quoteo(post=1850043:date=Jun 5 2011, 08:06 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jun 5 2011, 08:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't care about bunny hopping for aliens, but please don't create a game where fully armoured human soldiers bounce around as if their legs are springs!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1850042:date=Jun 5 2011, 07:45 AM:name=OutlawDr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OutlawDr @ Jun 5 2011, 07:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1850042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is less fear of close combat with aliens, since the marines are super hero jumping ninjas. Its friendly towards rambo-ing, and does nothing to promote staying together as marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys go get that strawman.. Really even the most trollish of thread derailers into bhop discussions are just trying to get bhop back for skulk. Though.. now that you mention it, double jump and ramp bhopping with marine made walking across maps less boring. If UW takes the bhop discussion seriously, I'll concede and say bhop should be limited to skulk, fade (depending on how blink works so we can have strafe blinking), and yes gorge hah.
ehh...Ive reread your post several times and im still not sure what exactly you are agreeing or disagreeing with...except that I agree skulks having bhop or something similar (less stupid looking) would be alright.
Bunnyhop for skulks.
Depending on how blink works air control would be welcomed.
Depending on how blink works air control would be welcomed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with wulf. i have been revisiting ns 1 for the past few months recently because of my excitement for ns2 which i preordered :D and bhopping for a skulk is one of the best parts. For marines its debatable because of aesthetic. Also, bunny hopping for the gorge is very enjoyable as well. i love its unpredictableness by marines so i spit and then run away when i get celerity :) When I play ns2 right now the skulk feels too confined. The gorge in ns2 is decent its jump does a good job for running away but the skulk really needs its feet back. I am hoping all who are debating have played at least few hours of the original to see the caliber of game it use to be. Let the debate continue! :D