Would definitely be amazing to have a few more American teams around to be able to scrim from time to time. Looking forward to the 156 game tomorrow. :)
Im looking for a clan/team (english speaking). I'm from Romania, but here can't find any NS2 players ... Anyway, my in game name is Terror. Message me if you looking for a good team player.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
I had a ton of fun playing Cyd last Friday (7/15). Well played Cyd! Although, after looking back on the second and more importantly the third game, I think some sort of timer, or "Draw Conditions" need to be worked out. Basically, In the third game we fought to a stalemate. The aliens just didn't have the ability to break the stalemate even though we had control of the entire map (minus Marine start). I'll freely admit there were a bit too many hydras being used, but at its core this still doesn't change the underlying point I'm trying to make. I think my biggest motivation here is to not force NS2HD to have to stick around for really long games. I'll freely admit this is mainly due to both teams not having Tier 3 tech right now. Thoughts?
<!--quoteo(post=1861263:date=Jul 17 2011, 04:35 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jul 17 2011, 04:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had a ton of fun playing Cyd last Friday (7/15). Well played Cyd! Although, after looking back on the second and more importantly the third game, I think some sort of timer, or "Draw Conditions" need to be worked out. Basically, In the third game we fought to a stalemate. The aliens just didn't have the ability to break the stalemate even though we had control of the entire map (minus Marine start). I'll freely admit there were a bit too many hydras being used, but at its core this still doesn't change the underlying point I'm trying to make. I think my biggest motivation here is to not force NS2HD to have to stick around for really long games. I'll freely admit this is mainly due to both teams not having Tier 3 tech right now. Thoughts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1861275:date=Jul 17 2011, 05:57 PM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Jul 17 2011, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861275"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about don't turtle in the first place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about "Its just a practice scrim" like you kept saying lol....
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
Please remember the 3 hydra and 2 sentry per RT rule. It seems some games are getting a little out of hand with hydra/sentry spam. I can understand 1 or 2 over the maximum, but when you have 7x the limit, that's a bit too much.
<!--quoteo(post=1861277:date=Jul 17 2011, 06:10 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ Jul 17 2011, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861277"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about "Its just a practice scrim" like you kept saying lol....
-.-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's just for fun/practice... That doesn't mean you should turtle up for an 1+ hour. It's bad sportsmanship when you're just delaying the game (we were going to win eventually).
<!--quoteo(post=1861279:date=Jul 18 2011, 12:58 AM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ Jul 18 2011, 12:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please remember the 3 hydra and 2 sentry per RT rule. It seems some games are getting a little out of hand with hydra/sentry spam. I can understand 1 or 2 over the maximum, but when you have 7x the limit, that's a bit too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont participate in those clan matches, so forgive me if I am asking stupid questions with obvious answers. But how does that rule work? If an alien kill an rt, do the comm have to recycle sentries until he reached his limit again, or is it more like 2 sentries per rt room, so you cant get about 4 rt's just to them have 8 sentries in your base?
And how are they to know they follow the limit? A gorge cant possibly keep check on how many hydras the team made, and I would assume even the marine comm might get confused about how many sentries he/she already have.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited July 2011
On paper, it works just fine. In practice, as Feha pointed out, it's problematic at best. Regardless of how it affects scrimmages/matches I think this is just a sign of a larger problem with Hydras and Sentries. This is of course my own opinion. Although, I suspect UWE sees this as an issue too. Just look at the slated changes for sentries.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
The spirit of the rule it to prevent exactly what happened: the marines/aliens are pinned in one base and with only 1 RT keep pumping out the hydras/sentries to turtle. It's to prevent UNREASONABLE numbers of sentries. 15+ sentries in one room is never reasonable, surely we can agree on that. Even if the marines owned every RT, that's still over the limit any way you cut it.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
I'm not disputing anything Quovatis. Just agreeing with Feha. I'm not a proponent of Hydra/Sentry farms. Never have been, never will be. Imo, the bigger issue is with their current implementation. To make them actually effective, you kind of need to go (a little) overboard with them, which shouldn't be the case. I suspect this will get ironed in future builds.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
We didn't have too many sentries in MS. That's just what happens when you have all the team players locked up into one area. Its really something UWE needs to fix rather than the fault of any team.
<!--quoteo(post=1861294:date=Jul 17 2011, 09:23 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 17 2011, 09:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We didn't have too many sentries in MS. That's just what happens when you have all the team players locked up into one area. Its really something UWE needs to fix rather than the fault of any team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
10+ sentries is "we didn't have too many sentries"?
How can you agree with me when I did not make a point? All I did was ask questions, as I don't understand exactly what the rule is meant to mean. as I said, is the 2 sentry per rt supposed to be at their respective rt, or are you allowed to put them all in the same room, and do you need to recycle stuff when you lose the rt?
But yeah, I suppose it is easy to derive an actual point from my questions, as they do highlight a big issue. It is hard to keep track on how many of what you have, especially when you are not commander. Which is why I asked if there is a mod they use to restrict the usage, or at least inform players how many sentries/hydras and rts are already spawned.
<!--quoteo(post=1861296:date=Jul 17 2011, 09:30 PM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jul 17 2011, 09:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861296"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can you agree with me when I did not make a point? All I did was ask questions, as I don't understand exactly what the rule is meant to mean. as I said, is the 2 sentry per rt supposed to be at their respective rt, or are you allowed to put them all in the same room, and do you need to recycle stuff when you lose the rt?
But yeah, I suppose it is easy to derive an actual point from my questions, as they do highlight a big issue. It is hard to keep track on how many of what you have, especially when you are not commander. Which is why I asked if there is a mod they use to restrict the usage, or at least inform players how many sentries/hydras and rts are already spawned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not really meant to be that strict, it's just there to deter spam. It's pretty easy to tell when stuff is being spammed and when you're placing it to slow someone down.
SewlekThe programmer previously known as SchimmelJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16247Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1861293:date=Jul 17 2011, 10:07 PM:name=McGlaspie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (McGlaspie @ Jul 17 2011, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861293"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not disputing anything Quovatis. Just agreeing with Feha. I'm not a proponent of Hydra/Sentry farms. Never have been, never will be. Imo, the bigger issue is with their current implementation. To make them actually effective, you kind of need to go (a little) overboard with them, which shouldn't be the case. I suspect this will get ironed in future builds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that will be fixed, maybe even in build 181? btw, dont forget that MACs are/will be supposed to drop mines. i see mine/sentry combos could be quite effective
If one team is down to its last RT and can keep up 15 sentries then the problem isn't sentries, it's the resource system. I'm starting to wonder if the symmetrical pres/tres for both teams approach is working out as planned.
I still think that a hydra limit is not necessary anymore because they cost p-res and can be sieged anyway.
For the sentry limit. I think if the commander has 4 RTs (and so builds 8 turrets) he can keep his turrets if the RT is destroyed. But he is not allowed to rebuild the sentries until he rebuilds the RT.
<!--quoteo(post=1861346:date=Jul 18 2011, 06:01 AM:name=Shilorius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shilorius @ Jul 18 2011, 06:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1861346"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think that a hydra limit is not necessary anymore because they cost p-res and can be sieged anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
This subject come again :)
So IMO, maybe we should up the limit to 4/5 hydras because :
- You can't drop a lot at the start game (or maybe if the team try a gorge rush) - it's better to place them smartly and hide them instead of spam them like an idiot - Grenade launcher are very effective against them - ARC will rape your hydras
Now the turrets, Alien some problem to kill them because :
- They don't have any siege unit to kill this small type buidings. - Fade (and skulk maybe, expect if every sentry look at each others) can kill them one by one but it's long and Com can rebuild them quickly (with the help of marine too). - Lerk can snip them but take long time too.
-> The only thing usefull for me against turret is still the bile bomb from the Gorge. Simple way to kill to turret is to hide behind a wall then strafe and shoot hide behind a wall and strafe and shoot.
Must of the problem for now is still the bad performance (hope occlusion will solve this problem in part - or maybe i don't know what occlusion is working for).
Bad performance does not affect match because it's max 6v6 and most of the time people who play gorge drop smartly the hydras to slow/make loose time to marines but not primary to kill them. (That's the way of hydras for me)
To summarize :
We should try to up the limit of hydras to TEST, about turrets I think the limit need to stay before 181 build is released (to see if that will change something about turret or not)
If you don't understand the rule 2/3 turret max by rt, maybe 2/3 turrets MAX by room will be more understandable for you.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I agree that upping the limit on hydras is probably needed. They can be sieged out and grenades take them out fairly easily. Also, server lag seems to increase more with sentries than hydras.
Many things will change in 181, but massive sentry spam is hard to combat as aliens right now. The whip bombard isn't usable yet. The energy nerf to the fade means that it's very hard for a fade to take one out now (takes a long time). Skulks and bile bomb are really the only effective ways to do it, and both are considerably harder than a marine taking out a hydra or even a whip.
I'd say 3 sentries per ROOM and an additional 2 sentries per corridor is a gracious plenty and easy to follow. That doesn't mean you can put 6 sentries in one room if you control 2 rooms, it means in any given room, there can be no more than 3 sentries, period. A room is defined as an area in the map with a name on the minimap. Corridors are defined as the hallways connecting them.
What are peoples thoughts on using mods during matches? Are they acceptable or no? By that i'm referring to using things such as "r_mode unlit" as well as any of the customizations that come out of the modding forums like the alien vision, minimap, etc. Is it all fair game?
Comments
How about don't turtle in the first place.
How about "Its just a practice scrim" like you kept saying lol....
-.-
-.-<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, it's just for fun/practice... That doesn't mean you should turtle up for an 1+ hour. It's bad sportsmanship when you're just delaying the game (we were going to win eventually).
... We ended up winning.
Okay! Thanks for confirming that you're just trolling and wasting a few hours of 6 people's time.
I dont participate in those clan matches, so forgive me if I am asking stupid questions with obvious answers.
But how does that rule work? If an alien kill an rt, do the comm have to recycle sentries until he reached his limit again, or is it more like 2 sentries per rt room, so you cant get about 4 rt's just to them have 8 sentries in your base?
And how are they to know they follow the limit? A gorge cant possibly keep check on how many hydras the team made, and I would assume even the marine comm might get confused about how many sentries he/she already have.
Just wonder how this rule actually work :P
10+ sentries is "we didn't have too many sentries"?
But yeah, I suppose it is easy to derive an actual point from my questions, as they do highlight a big issue. It is hard to keep track on how many of what you have, especially when you are not commander. Which is why I asked if there is a mod they use to restrict the usage, or at least inform players how many sentries/hydras and rts are already spawned.
But yeah, I suppose it is easy to derive an actual point from my questions, as they do highlight a big issue. It is hard to keep track on how many of what you have, especially when you are not commander. Which is why I asked if there is a mod they use to restrict the usage, or at least inform players how many sentries/hydras and rts are already spawned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not really meant to be that strict, it's just there to deter spam. It's pretty easy to tell when stuff is being spammed and when you're placing it to slow someone down.
that will be fixed, maybe even in build 181? btw, dont forget that MACs are/will be supposed to drop
mines. i see mine/sentry combos could be quite effective
For the sentry limit. I think if the commander has 4 RTs (and so builds 8 turrets) he can keep his turrets if the RT is destroyed. But he is not allowed to rebuild the sentries until he rebuilds the RT.
We need a limit because hydra : lag
So IMO, maybe we should up the limit to 4/5 hydras because :
- You can't drop a lot at the start game (or maybe if the team try a gorge rush)
- it's better to place them smartly and hide them instead of spam them like an idiot
- Grenade launcher are very effective against them
- ARC will rape your hydras
Now the turrets, Alien some problem to kill them because :
- They don't have any siege unit to kill this small type buidings.
- Fade (and skulk maybe, expect if every sentry look at each others) can kill them one by one but it's long and Com can rebuild them quickly (with the help of marine too).
- Lerk can snip them but take long time too.
-> The only thing usefull for me against turret is still the bile bomb from the Gorge. Simple way to kill to turret is to hide behind a wall then strafe and shoot hide behind a wall and strafe and shoot.
Must of the problem for now is still the bad performance (hope occlusion will solve this problem in part - or maybe i don't know what occlusion is working for).
Bad performance does not affect match because it's max 6v6 and most of the time people who play gorge drop smartly the hydras to slow/make loose time to marines but not primary to kill them. (That's the way of hydras for me)
To summarize :
We should try to up the limit of hydras to TEST, about turrets I think the limit need to stay before 181 build is released (to see if that will change something about turret or not)
If you don't understand the rule 2/3 turret max by rt, maybe 2/3 turrets MAX by room will be more understandable for you.
Waiting for your feedback.
Many things will change in 181, but massive sentry spam is hard to combat as aliens right now. The whip bombard isn't usable yet. The energy nerf to the fade means that it's very hard for a fade to take one out now (takes a long time). Skulks and bile bomb are really the only effective ways to do it, and both are considerably harder than a marine taking out a hydra or even a whip.
I'd say 3 sentries per ROOM and an additional 2 sentries per corridor is a gracious plenty and easy to follow. That doesn't mean you can put 6 sentries in one room if you control 2 rooms, it means in any given room, there can be no more than 3 sentries, period. A room is defined as an area in the map with a name on the minimap. Corridors are defined as the hallways connecting them.