Well, i'm sure if the aliens had an unbuilt hive which was going up, that it'd have been the same thing, that they wouldn't have lost, but since we took down their 2nd hive, they didn't have another going up.
But can't say i've paid enough attention to that, so maybe aliens still lose if they have a second hive going up, but I doubt that.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I know the game doesn't end if an unbuilt hive is going up. What I don't know is if it requires at least one alien to be alive too. I think it was this way in NS1, but not sure in NS2. In NS1 aliens lost when all players are dead, even though a hive was building. I don't think that's required in NS2. Conceivably the hive could finish building and the aliens could spawn again and possibly win. Similarly, marines could go build the unbuilt CC, get an IP, and continue.
I think it is not quite right that a marine commander can place a ninja CC anywhere on the map to win such a close game... Aliens have to send a drifter to another tech point first to do this. A fair solution would be to first build up the CC to be able to survive when the main CC is being killed. Also a functional power node should be required for this, which was not the case in this match :/
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
You can't put in that restriction because marines could still conceivably recover by repairing the power node, building the CC, and IPs. Winning in this manner is so rare, that I don't think it's a problem, as any solution would be bad in more normal circumstances.
They could just make it so that you are required to have a fully built hive/CC or you lose the game. If you don't then it's pretty much a lost game anyway and it would stop this type of tactic (you would be required to fully build the CC first, which I think is fine).
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
So a hive that is 99% built when the last built one goes down should be a loss? I've been in a game where the aliens recovered and eventually won with no active hives at one point. The game should not end unless there is absolutely no way a team can regain spawning abilities. Any unbuilt CC/hive still gives the team a chance, however small. And yes marines can drop a CC anywhere, but this is an asymmetric game. Each side is not identical so there will be advantages unique to each side.
You are right, a game should not end unless there are spawning points available for both teams... But it has to be much more difficult to build another CC instead of just placing it on the other side of the map. Maybe a MAC should be required to place it. That would be fair...
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
If MACs were free like they used to be, I might agree, but requiring a MAC means marines are required to get a robotics factory to expand, which is not good. Many competitive teams don't even build a robotic factory. I thought about requiring LOS to place structures, but that too can be bad. The comm would have to wait for a marine to look at every res node before it can be placed, and that wouldn't be fun, especially on small games.
Like I said, this is such a small issue and is so rare that a "fix" isn't needed. If marines can pull off a win in such extraordinary circumstances, kudos to them. Leave it at that.
what we need is a backup for when ns2hd cannot tape the matches someone that has similar stuff to him or get with him and give him the videos to edit. i dont have the time and being on the us east coast makes it even worse. i think he said he uses fraps to record but someone should really get with him and discuss this stuff. so we do at least have the option when he cant.
As far as I know there is, tempest, banny and another. All players are also welcomed to record their POV, though I think recording takes a toll on the lower range computers.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
We should find a rule for that. Dropping an unbuild cc in an unpowered room is a little bit lame i think and there is no need for tactics, with that kind of gameplay. Cause the only tactic is: All go to hive, if base is going down, i drop a cc anywhere. No need for an coordinated gameplay.
Aliens do not have that kind of option. So its really unfair. If we had the same option, we won the last game.
<!--quoteo(post=1863392:date=Jul 25 2011, 04:05 PM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Jul 25 2011, 04:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as I know there is, tempest, banny and another. All players are also welcomed to record their POV, though I think recording takes a toll on the lower range computers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yea i understand that what im saying is that it would benefit us all for them to get together with ns2hd for tips and how to's on how to have a good quality video and what else he uses so we have some kind of consistency over clan match videos im sure everyone would appreciate this.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Marines could effectively do the same thing in NS1 and it was never an issue. It's fine as is. If marine had beacon (like they will in the future), we may have played it differently, but we knew it was an all-in move, as did the aliens.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1863393:date=Jul 25 2011, 01:17 PM:name=dePARA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dePARA @ Jul 25 2011, 01:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863393"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We should find a rule for that. Dropping an unbuild cc in an unpowered room is a little bit lame i think and there is no need for tactics, with that kind of gameplay. Cause the only tactic is: All go to hive, if base is going down, i drop a cc anywhere. No need for an coordinated gameplay.
Aliens do not have that kind of option. So its really unfair. If we had the same option, we won the last game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its definitely a cheese move, but I don't really see it swaying any matches. More often, marines lose from no ips/everyone dies than loss of the CS. Dropping an unbuilt CS on another tech node is usually just delaying the inevitable.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
The aliens still have the advantage that they can win the game by simply downing the powernode and killing all marine players alive. Marines, on the other hand, MUST kill hives to win. So again, I don't see the problem with asymmetric win conditions and no special rules are needed.
Besides it is possible for the aliens to hide drifters in areas that are unaccessible to marines like vents or that hidden place in the west area of tram.
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
edited July 2011
I would like to use fraps to record my POV but i'll not cause :
- need a powerfull computer - need a big HDD
That's the job of UWE to add a record system like in quake3.
Just type /record demo1 then the game will record the "lines of the game" (not textures, sounds like fraps does), then type /play demo1 to watch in any cameras you want (third, first person or free cam).
extra :
- add a menu to forward, backward. - fast forward, backward.
<!--quoteo(post=1863539:date=Jul 26 2011, 05:23 AM:name=vlnc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vlnc @ Jul 26 2011, 05:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's the job of UWE to add a record system like in quake3.
Just type /record demo1 then the game will record the "lines of the game" (not textures, sounds like fraps does), then type /play demo1 to watch in any cameras you want (third, first person or free cam).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree would be amazing for UWE to put in a replay system, but in all honesty even though that would be amazing to have, i find they have more important things, just as long as the replay system is out for 1.0 release i'd be happy. Lots of people would get interested by seeing people playing this game competitively. =)
thats why im saying just for now get with ns2hd see what he does and see if he has tips on how to get it to work if you dont have such high end stuff maybe he might be able to help. or has something that might work better for you guys.
vlncJoin Date: 2010-09-07Member: 73921Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1863557:date=Jul 26 2011, 12:52 PM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Jul 26 2011, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1863557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree would be amazing for UWE to put in a replay system, but in all honesty even though that would be amazing to have, i find they have more important things, just as long as the replay system is out for 1.0 release i'd be happy. Lots of people would get interested by seeing people playing this game competitively. =)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your right, it's not their main problem for now (what i understand) but it will be more easier for us to spread the competitive side of ns2 on teh internets.
Whenever my new computer is up and running, i'll be definitely doing POV of my games. The only thing is i can't edit for crap so.. we'll see how that goes. =p
Hey there Team 156, maybe you should remove yourself from the 6v6 list, considering you bail out on scrimming and no longer want to play against us... Thanks for wasting our time, was appreciated.
<!--quoteo(post=1864042:date=Jul 27 2011, 08:06 PM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Jul 27 2011, 08:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1864042"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hey there Team 156, maybe you should remove yourself from the 6v6 list, considering you bail out on scrimming and no longer want to play against us... Thanks for wasting our time, was appreciated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seriously. I (mostly) held my tongue last time, but this is just dumb. Why even schedule a scrim if you're not intending to play?
plus I will take some blame as I thought it was cancelled and went out with my family. sorry guys, hope to have an opportunity to play with you guys again!
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited July 2011
Aren't these scrims dependent on the build? If nothing else, the past two builds have had severe gameplay issues that preclude scrimming imo. Sorry if we didn't inform you earlier. We really need a more organized way to schedule and/or cancel scrims (maybe google calendars?)
<!--quoteo(post=1864069:date=Jul 27 2011, 09:47 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jul 27 2011, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1864069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aren't these scrims dependent on the build? If nothing else, the past two builds have had severe gameplay issues that preclude scrimming imo. Sorry if we didn't inform you earlier. We really need a more organized way to schedule and/or cancel scrims (maybe google calendars?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There aren't enough game-breaking bugs in this build to put a scrim off.
I mean you had 9 in vent and waited until 8 PM to tell us. It wasn't until I asked you to join the server that you told us you weren't going to scrim. For little to no reason as I'm told by PersianImmortal.
<!--quoteo(post=1864072:date=Jul 27 2011, 07:52 PM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Jul 27 2011, 07:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1864072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There aren't enough game-breaking bugs in this build to put a scrim off.
I mean you had 9 in vent and waited until 8 PM to tell us. It wasn't until I asked you to join the server that you told us you weren't going to scrim. For little to no reason as I'm told by PersianImmortal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. We're not happy with the build and we're not happy with playing a match on it. Unfortunately, you're playing a game still in development and from time to time game breaking bugs will find their way in which prevent matches from happening.
I'm suprised you're having such difficulty understanding that.
Comments
But can't say i've paid enough attention to that, so maybe aliens still lose if they have a second hive going up, but I doubt that.
But it has to be much more difficult to build another CC instead of just placing it on the other side of the map. Maybe a MAC should be required to place it. That would be fair...
Like I said, this is such a small issue and is so rare that a "fix" isn't needed. If marines can pull off a win in such extraordinary circumstances, kudos to them. Leave it at that.
i dont have the time and being on the us east coast makes it even worse. i think he said he uses fraps to record but someone should really get with him and discuss this stuff. so we do at least have the option when he cant.
Dropping an unbuild cc in an unpowered room is a little bit lame i think and there is no need for tactics, with that kind of gameplay.
Cause the only tactic is: All go to hive, if base is going down, i drop a cc anywhere. No need for an coordinated gameplay.
Aliens do not have that kind of option. So its really unfair. If we had the same option, we won the last game.
yea i understand that what im saying is that it would benefit us all for them to get together with ns2hd for tips and how to's on how to have a good quality video and what else he uses so we have some kind of consistency over clan match videos im sure everyone would appreciate this.
Dropping an unbuild cc in an unpowered room is a little bit lame i think and there is no need for tactics, with that kind of gameplay.
Cause the only tactic is: All go to hive, if base is going down, i drop a cc anywhere. No need for an coordinated gameplay.
Aliens do not have that kind of option. So its really unfair. If we had the same option, we won the last game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its definitely a cheese move, but I don't really see it swaying any matches. More often, marines lose from no ips/everyone dies than loss of the CS. Dropping an unbuilt CS on another tech node is usually just delaying the inevitable.
- need a powerfull computer
- need a big HDD
That's the job of UWE to add a record system like in quake3.
Just type /record demo1 then the game will record the "lines of the game" (not textures, sounds like fraps does),
then type /play demo1 to watch in any cameras you want (third, first person or free cam).
extra :
- add a menu to forward, backward.
- fast forward, backward.
Just type /record demo1 then the game will record the "lines of the game" (not textures, sounds like fraps does),
then type /play demo1 to watch in any cameras you want (third, first person or free cam).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NEED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your right, it's not their main problem for now (what i understand) but it will be more easier for us to spread the competitive side of ns2 on teh internets.
Seriously. I (mostly) held my tongue last time, but this is just dumb. Why even schedule a scrim if you're not intending to play?
There aren't enough game-breaking bugs in this build to put a scrim off.
I mean you had 9 in vent and waited until 8 PM to tell us. It wasn't until I asked you to join the server that you told us you weren't going to scrim. For little to no reason as I'm told by PersianImmortal.
I mean you had 9 in vent and waited until 8 PM to tell us. It wasn't until I asked you to join the server that you told us you weren't going to scrim. For little to no reason as I'm told by PersianImmortal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. We're not happy with the build and we're not happy with playing a match on it. Unfortunately, you're playing a game still in development and from time to time game breaking bugs will find their way in which prevent matches from happening.
I'm suprised you're having such difficulty understanding that.