<!--quoteo(post=1881014:date=Oct 21 2011, 03:43 PM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rob @ Oct 21 2011, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The person we elect is <i>supposed</i> to get smart on the issues they are elected to handle. Whether they do that or not is an entirely different story. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's the thing. If you can't judge if they perform well (and 99% of voters can't) then politicians control you.
Stickman: To make it simpler:
A: Black Zimbabwe population demanding white farmers to give them land so they'll get richer and all will be good.
B: Lazy workers in "rich" countries demanding people to buy overpriced goods manufactured by them (and not their cheap competition) so everything will be "fair".
Both demands are absurd and impossible to realize without brutal force (of union/government or mix of these). Both demands are based on group that's lazy and blames others on their bad situation.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1881035:date=Oct 21 2011, 05:13 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Oct 21 2011, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881035"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A: Black Zimbabwe population demanding white farmers to give them land so they'll get richer and all will be good.
B: Lazy workers in "rich" countries demanding people to buy overpriced goods manufactured by them (and not their cheap competition) so everything will be "fair".
Both demands are absurd and impossible to realize without brutal force (of union/government or mix of these). Both demands are based on group that's lazy and blames others on their bad situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mugabe kicked white farmers out of zimbabwe because he saw white people owning land as a form of colonialism, but before he kicked the white farmers out, he forgot to check if any of the black folk who wanted to take over actually knew how to run the farms (which they didn't). Don't mistake Mugabe's actions for anything remotely resembling what anyone else here is talking about, because Mugabe is straight up insane.
In reply to "<a href="http://www.stratfor.com/analysis/20111019-special-series-assessing-damage-european-banking-crisis?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20111021&utm_term=freecontent&utm_content=readmore&elq=1c9153bf20d342c78ee180cd000a4980" target="_blank">Europe</a> knows best"
<!--quoteo(post=1881040:date=Oct 21 2011, 06:26 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ Oct 21 2011, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mugabe kicked white farmers out of zimbabwe because he saw white people owning land as a form of colonialism, but before he kicked the white farmers out, he forgot to check if any of the black folk who wanted to take over actually knew how to run the farms (which they didn't). Don't mistake Mugabe's actions for anything remotely resembling what anyone else here is talking about, because Mugabe is straight up insane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not much of a difference between socialists.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1880942:date=Oct 20 2011, 09:03 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Oct 20 2011, 09:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880942"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They don't manufacture ###### for the lowest bidder, and have awesome trade deals.
Us? We've got China and tariffs. Also, a freakin' ocean between us and people who might want our goods. Germany? A line in the ground. And then ocean to reach US shores.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually we don't have many tariffs, we have free trade. Those "awesome trade deals" are other countries letting Germany put tariffs on some of its imports while still still buying from Germany because it has good stuff.
We don't impose many tariffs so we can buy the most stuff. The result being it's cheaper to ship stuff all the way from the other side of the world rather than make it here.
Germany doesn't have good wages... actually most wages in Germany are pretty bad. It's just that the cost of living is kept low to compensate for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1881014:date=Oct 21 2011, 06:43 AM:name=Rob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rob @ Oct 21 2011, 06:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881014"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[edit] Also, as I've said before. We're a democratic republic. It's representative democracy, not full democracy. And the reason we elect representatives to govern us is precisely because we can't have perfect knowledge on all subjects. The person we elect is <i>supposed</i> to get smart on the issues they are elected to handle. Whether they do that or not is an entirely different story. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Key word: supposed to
Unfortunately, most aren't. Or spend too much time playing political games and campaigning to be useful.
<!--quoteo(post=1881327:date=Oct 23 2011, 05:11 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Oct 23 2011, 05:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881327"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Key word: supposed to
Unfortunately, most aren't. Or spend too much time playing political games and campaigning to be useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which keeps them nice and occupied fighting among themselves and lets the country get on with running itself.
Most of the country is a meritocracy, private enterprises are run by the people who are good at running them, same with most branches of civil service, same with the army, same with the emergency services, for all practical concerns the country is a meritocracy, and because democracy is so good at keeping the nominally in charge from doing any actual ruling, it remains that way. The worst the government can do is make budget changes and fire the figureheads at the top of some of the instutions, but then another one is installed fairly quickly and it doesn't do much on the ground level.
Anybody who supports efficient and effective government wants a dictatorship, because that's what efficient and effective government is, and it's wonderful as long as the dictator is benevolent, but it only takes one or two who aren't to ruin it, so generally I think the inefficient ineffective approach is better, with all the various arms of government flaling around aimlessly doing their own little jobs with only the faintest semblance of oversight from the top. Just enough to make sure they don't do anything too outlandish, but not enough to interfere with them doing their jobs.
<!--quoteo(post=1881619:date=Oct 24 2011, 07:53 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Oct 24 2011, 07:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1881619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Which keeps them nice and occupied fighting among themselves and lets the country get on with running itself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, which is why sometimes I'd rather more of the government did was Texas does. They don't have to meet every day of the year, only when stuff has to get done. Helps keep them from twiddling their fingers and making new laws for the hell of it.
Then again, the Federal government at times really needs to step in, and consistently has proven to do it too slowly or really stupidly. While overall it's nice for them to do less, there are some really good examples where they need to do more.
SpoogeThunderbolt missile in your cheeriosJoin Date: 2002-01-25Member: 67Members
Reason points me to a fascinating look at the near prophet Peter Schiff. Behold the Doomsayer: <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0YTY5TWtmU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0YTY5TWtmU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
This self-described member of the 1% dives headfirst into the OWS crowd - hilarity ensues: <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UGL-Ex1CD1c"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UGL-Ex1CD1c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
I find this way more funny/silly than it should be: <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/29/1031198/-PROOF-the-TEABAGGERS-are-RACIST,-VIOLENT,-and-DISGUSTING?detail=hide" target="_blank">Proof the TEABAGGERS are RACIST, VIOLENT, and DISGUSTING</a>
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1880930:date=Oct 20 2011, 05:06 PM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ Oct 20 2011, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1880930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wage, imports/exports/manufacturing and US: why does Germany manufacture so much and export so much while having high wages? Someone explain this weird imbalance between US and Germany.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, the US is still the dominant manufacturer on the planet (see <a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-manufactuing-germany-italy-france.html" target="_blank">here</a>). Also, US and German manufacturing wages are comparable at roughly $2,372/month and $2,336/month in 2005$US, respectively (data from <a href="http://www.worldsalaries.org/" target="_blank">here</a>). The issue, of course, is that China's manufacturing wages are $134/month in 2005$US and its silly to think that Germany is not suffering from the same competitive wage disadvantage that the US does from developing countries.
The solution, which I think Germany is catching on to faster than the US, is to manufacture products that are complex or require a high level of technical knowledge. I think the follies of the Boeing 787 are a great example of where this type of outsourcing to countries with cheaper wages fail miserably (see <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110215" target="_blank">here</a>). An airplane is such a complex machine that when outsourced work came in outside of the required specs, Boeing had to spend much more money to fix the problems then if they had just kept the work in-house.
<!--quoteo(post=1884601:date=Nov 11 2011, 12:34 AM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Nov 11 2011, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884601"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, the US is still the dominant manufacturer on the planet (see <a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-manufactuing-germany-italy-france.html" target="_blank">here</a>). Also, US and German manufacturing wages are comparable at roughly $2,372/month and $2,336/month in 2005$US, respectively (data from <a href="http://www.worldsalaries.org/" target="_blank">here</a>). The issue, of course, is that China's manufacturing wages are $134/month in 2005$US and its silly to think that Germany is not suffering from the same competitive wage disadvantage that the US does from developing countries.
The solution, which I think Germany is catching on to faster than the US, is to manufacture products that are complex or require a high level of technical knowledge. I think the follies of the Boeing 787 are a great example of where this type of outsourcing to countries with cheaper wages fail miserably (see <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110215" target="_blank">here</a>). An airplane is such a complex machine that when outsourced work came in outside of the required specs, Boeing had to spend much more money to fix the problems then if they had just kept the work in-house.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I meant per capita, comparing 80M country to 300M country doesn't make sense. Outsourcing isn't really related to difficulty of doing something but to QA/communication requirements. In gamedev coding is in house and art is outsourced.
Comments
That's the thing. If you can't judge if they perform well (and 99% of voters can't) then politicians control you.
Stickman: To make it simpler:
A:
Black Zimbabwe population demanding white farmers to give them land so they'll get richer and all will be good.
B:
Lazy workers in "rich" countries demanding people to buy overpriced goods manufactured by them (and not their cheap competition) so everything will be "fair".
Both demands are absurd and impossible to realize without brutal force (of union/government or mix of these). Both demands are based on group that's lazy and blames others on their bad situation.
Black Zimbabwe population demanding white farmers to give them land so they'll get richer and all will be good.
B:
Lazy workers in "rich" countries demanding people to buy overpriced goods manufactured by them (and not their cheap competition) so everything will be "fair".
Both demands are absurd and impossible to realize without brutal force (of union/government or mix of these). Both demands are based on group that's lazy and blames others on their bad situation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mugabe kicked white farmers out of zimbabwe because he saw white people owning land as a form of colonialism, but before he kicked the white farmers out, he forgot to check if any of the black folk who wanted to take over actually knew how to run the farms (which they didn't). Don't mistake Mugabe's actions for anything remotely resembling what anyone else here is talking about, because Mugabe is straight up insane.
White lazy western Europeans wanting social handouts are just morons.
<a href="http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/15/deutsche-boerse-and-nyse-euronext-to-merge-marketnewsvideo.html" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/15/deutsche-...tnewsvideo.html</a>
Not much of a difference between socialists.
Us? We've got China and tariffs. Also, a freakin' ocean between us and people who might want our goods. Germany? A line in the ground. And then ocean to reach US shores.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually we don't have many tariffs, we have free trade. Those "awesome trade deals" are other countries letting Germany put tariffs on some of its imports while still still buying from Germany because it has good stuff.
We don't impose many tariffs so we can buy the most stuff. The result being it's cheaper to ship stuff all the way from the other side of the world rather than make it here.
Also, as I've said before. We're a democratic republic. It's representative democracy, not full democracy. And the reason we elect representatives to govern us is precisely because we can't have perfect knowledge on all subjects. The person we elect is <i>supposed</i> to get smart on the issues they are elected to handle. Whether they do that or not is an entirely different story. :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Key word: supposed to
Unfortunately, most aren't. Or spend too much time playing political games and campaigning to be useful.
Unfortunately, most aren't. Or spend too much time playing political games and campaigning to be useful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which keeps them nice and occupied fighting among themselves and lets the country get on with running itself.
Most of the country is a meritocracy, private enterprises are run by the people who are good at running them, same with most branches of civil service, same with the army, same with the emergency services, for all practical concerns the country is a meritocracy, and because democracy is so good at keeping the nominally in charge from doing any actual ruling, it remains that way. The worst the government can do is make budget changes and fire the figureheads at the top of some of the instutions, but then another one is installed fairly quickly and it doesn't do much on the ground level.
Anybody who supports efficient and effective government wants a dictatorship, because that's what efficient and effective government is, and it's wonderful as long as the dictator is benevolent, but it only takes one or two who aren't to ruin it, so generally I think the inefficient ineffective approach is better, with all the various arms of government flaling around aimlessly doing their own little jobs with only the faintest semblance of oversight from the top. Just enough to make sure they don't do anything too outlandish, but not enough to interfere with them doing their jobs.
Yeah, which is why sometimes I'd rather more of the government did was Texas does. They don't have to meet every day of the year, only when stuff has to get done. Helps keep them from twiddling their fingers and making new laws for the hell of it.
Then again, the Federal government at times really needs to step in, and consistently has proven to do it too slowly or really stupidly. While overall it's nice for them to do less, there are some really good examples where they need to do more.
Behold the Doomsayer:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0YTY5TWtmU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Z0YTY5TWtmU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
This self-described member of the 1% dives headfirst into the OWS crowd - hilarity ensues:
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UGL-Ex1CD1c"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UGL-Ex1CD1c" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
Capitalism means private gains and private losses, not private gains and socialized losses
Actually, the US is still the dominant manufacturer on the planet (see <a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/06/us-manufactuing-germany-italy-france.html" target="_blank">here</a>). Also, US and German manufacturing wages are comparable at roughly $2,372/month and $2,336/month in 2005$US, respectively (data from <a href="http://www.worldsalaries.org/" target="_blank">here</a>). The issue, of course, is that China's manufacturing wages are $134/month in 2005$US and its silly to think that Germany is not suffering from the same competitive wage disadvantage that the US does from developing countries.
The solution, which I think Germany is catching on to faster than the US, is to manufacture products that are complex or require a high level of technical knowledge. I think the follies of the Boeing 787 are a great example of where this type of outsourcing to countries with cheaper wages fail miserably (see <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110215" target="_blank">here</a>). An airplane is such a complex machine that when outsourced work came in outside of the required specs, Boeing had to spend much more money to fix the problems then if they had just kept the work in-house.
The solution, which I think Germany is catching on to faster than the US, is to manufacture products that are complex or require a high level of technical knowledge. I think the follies of the Boeing 787 are a great example of where this type of outsourcing to countries with cheaper wages fail miserably (see <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/15/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20110215" target="_blank">here</a>). An airplane is such a complex machine that when outsourced work came in outside of the required specs, Boeing had to spend much more money to fix the problems then if they had just kept the work in-house.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant per capita, comparing 80M country to 300M country doesn't make sense. Outsourcing isn't really related to difficulty of doing something but to QA/communication requirements. In gamedev coding is in house and art is outsourced.