NS2_Goliath

Blasphemy · February 2012

<div class="IPBDescription">mapas has returned!</div>Hello again everyone!

After what feels like almost a year of nothing, I have returned with an update to the map that was so large, it needed a name. For the longest time, I was working on this and thinking I should update the thread, but I kept procrastinating because there was something over here and there that I should fix before I commit. Well enough stalling. With great anticipation, I present to you, NS2_Goliath!

<span style="color:#FF0000">!!Disclaimer!! I have the map greyed out, with only a couple rooms with some polish. I constantly keep changing the general layout, so until I feel satisfied, only then will I work on detailing.</span> (At least, that is what I am trying to do. Sometimes you need that little bit of props in your work schedule.) That doesn't mean I wont try to make nooks and crannies to make early testing interesting. Will probably take a couple builds though.

<span style="color:#9ACD32">Public alpha status</span>: Released. <span style="color:#00FF00">It is also available on Steamworks now!</span><a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk/downloads/maps/80/NS2_Goliath/" target="_blank"> Older build on Duplex Gaming.co.uk</a> -- I have been adding some occlusion geometry in some of the more finished rooms. Other rooms are tuned around a bit. So far so good!

Goliath Map Testing group here: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoliathMapTest" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoliathMapTest</a>

Layout: 10 Resource Nodes, 5 Tech Points. Two resource nodes and a Tech point in middle are something I am unsure about, and might change.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/VS2nK.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/VS2nKl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

Development Photos (I'll try to cycle these around throughout development, replacing older ones with newer ones):

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/Hho0a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Hho0al.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/YddS9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/YddS9l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/p8CI7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/p8CI7l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/GPX67.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/GPX67l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/hDukY.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/hDukYl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/tgi4h.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tgi4hl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

Also, here is an album showing other parts of the map that didn't get into my showcase.
<a href="http://imgur.com/a/hM43F#0" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/a/hM43F#0</a>

As usual, comments, concerns and criticism are all welcome.

Soul_Rider · February 2012

You've recreated a StarFox Map, I'd recognise those hexagonal rings anyday, hahaha :)

Looks great, keep up the good work.

I have 2 concerns with this map.

Firstly it looks like it's too easy to fall off the map, particularly when blinking etc, just looks like a lot of platforms you could potentially fall off while fighting.

Secondly, 10 res nodes? Considering currently Aliens need to hold 4 and Marines 3 res nodes to progress at a decent rate, 10 res nodes does mean a potential to tech up very quickly.

Blasphemy · February 2012

Thanks for the speedy reply! And now that I look at my LHC with the star fox glasses, I can't look at it normally anymore with a straight face. Thanks a lot.

I'm glad you think its too easy to fall off in that part of the room, because that is exactly what I was trying to go for. A network of catwalk over a long fall is just what I need to impose vertigo and to make them watch their footing. I was actually thinking of making the catwalks smaller and more precarious, but then I remember the Onos can knock people around, and didn't want things to get too frustrating for Marines. Whether I add railings or not will have to be determined when I can get a play test of it going.

As for the amount of res nodes, I don't know whether 10 is enough or too much or what. Summit has 9 res nodes if you count them all, and Mineshaft has 11 so I think that 10 should be a decent amount. This is including the nodes in the base, of course.

Of course, all will be revealed in the playtest. And I definitely need people to participate. If all goes perfectly, I could probably get four of my friends to participate, but a 2v3 just wouldn't be enough.

zastels · February 2012

wow I really like your reactor core looking thing! Mighty creative with the props.

This map is going to turn out sick.

Gadx · February 2012

Looks awesome! I want to play it!

Dusteh · February 2012

Lots of big open rooms, lerks going to dominate, skulks on the other hand not so much. Looks great though, cant wait to play it

zombiehellmonkey · February 2012

Looks quite amazing from the screenshots. It definitely has a unique feel to it from all the other maps. I like the engine room shot the most. Actually all the rooms have a very futuristic feel to them.

Look forward to seeing more. Keep up the good work.

swalk · February 2012

Whenever you're ready to release a playtest version, greyboxed or not, you should sign up on <a href="http://www.duplexgaming.co.uk" target="_blank">www.duplexgaming.co.uk</a>
Then I will have to manually change your membergroup to map/mod maker.
Then you will be able to add your map by going to "Admin" in the top left, then "Downloads", then the "Maps" button to add your map.
Most of the community mappers use our database, hope you will use it too.
Looking forward for more updates on this map, and of course, the playtest version. :)

Skie · February 2012

Looks like a skulk walljump heaven, looking sweet. :D

If the whole map is greyboxed out and with nodes & RTs placed, we can try this in the ensl.org 6vs6 gathers, just like all the other maps.

swalk · February 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Skie @ Feb 29 2012, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>If the whole map is greyboxed out and with nodes & RTs placed, we can try this in the ensl.org 6vs6 gathers, just like all the other maps.</div>
Yes, we are kind to help out get some 6v6 testing on your map.
We mostly use the duplexgaming database for maps and mods, for convienience. Not everyone uses these forums :P

PersianImm0rtal · February 2012

Great job on your map, I really hope you make it brighter though.

DO A BARREL ROLL! (sorry I couldn't help my self)

swalk · February 2012

I see you signed up, and I changed your membergroup.
You should be able to add your map whenever you want :)

peregrinus · February 2012

Blasphemy · February 2012

Hey thanks for the responses, guys!

I signed up to that site. It is probably better that I host it from there than try to get people to use my public dropbox.

It is now available for download. Installation instructions are in the readme, as well as a general sitrep of the map. Download link is in the OP.

peregrinus · February 2012

Post here when its available for download, thanks!

Blasphemy · February 2012

Yeah, it's available for download now. Link in the OP.

peregrinus · February 2012

Cool I'm installing it now.

There are 3 files to go in /overviews ?

All the other maps have 2 files for /overview. One hmp and one TGA, you've got 2 TGAs.

ns2_goliath TGA, ns2_goliath_hmp TGA

Am I supposed to install both?

Blasphemy · February 2012

Might as well. Doesn't seem to hurt having both. I don't know why it was giving me that extra file when I generate overviews.

peregrinus · February 2012

I put both in and it works fine.

My impression is pretty good...walking into that central area leaves you awe struck. No other map in NS2 has anything like it.

BUT there are problems. In the middle the 2 res nodes and hive/cc spot are incredibly vulnerable to sniping. I think you would find its impossible for teams to defend well.

Suggest you put transparent windows around the central structure to make it defensible while not losing the sense of it being suspended in space.

There's also issues with players falling down on to the lower areas and not having any way to climb up. Use ladders or ramps to make that central spot tiered. 3 tiers would work well, give players more space to contest.

You also need to think about those very long beams which hang above the empty space below. If a marine camps there, how can aliens get him? A skulk would have to walk along the straight narrow beam making it really easy for the marine to kill it. and Sentries could be placed there too with the same problem.

The other rooms which have been worked on are very good visually. I don't know maybe they are too basic for good gameplay. There aren't many places for aliens to find cover.

You need to make sure those areas around the edge are interesting visually and gameplay wise. It would be a shame if there was a huge contrast between the spectacular central area and the rest of the map.

Blasphemy · February 2012

Thanks for the thoughts. It's always nice to hear about suggestions and issues people have with the map, especially when they have the same problems as I do.

I'm sure it's fairly obvious about which rooms I've invested my time in over the others. So it's only a matter of time before more complex geometry in the more greyed out rooms.

One of the things I was planning to add before release, but forgot, was a couple ladders in the middle point to get people back up to the main area if they fell off. I don't particularly understand what you mean by tiered, if you are meaning the middle area to have an upper area to fight over, or the scaffolding. I think it does need some kind of vertical diversity. The only problem I think I would have, though, is commander camera placement. I would have to make it so the commander can see all three stories of the level, without being too close or too far away from the other ones.

Also, what do you mean by the very long beams? Do you mean the large girder scaffolding that keeps the central structure suspended, or do you mean the catwalks that players use to traverse the map? If you are actually meaning the catwalks, then I was having a similar issue, with kind of the same relation. I found the design of the middle room to be very similar and symmetrical, leaving much confusion of direction if you lose orientation. The catwalks are completely similar on both sides, and the dark of the room does not provide any identifiable landmarks. In order to deal with this, I was considering trying to make a more angular approach to make it less confusing. Possibly having stairways and hallways move about at 45 degrees in places here and there. But I don't know if that would ruin the general feel of order and complexity that I wanted to impose.

I was also considering making some of the walkways, like the one in the south which can look down at the hive, have windows and other obstructions. While I do want players to see the center, and possibly even tell if there is a base there, sniping from long ranges such as that just isn't part of my game plan.

Soul_Rider · March 2012

Well I ran around it....

WOW!

I can't offer any advice because I am still reeling by the beauty and level changes and everything. WOW!

When I've run around it a few more times, I'll try and offer some constructive criticism, but wow, at the moment, my head is just blown away.

When you walk out and see the centre piece suspended there, it's almost like a movie cutscene. WOW!

I'll try and be less Wow'ed by the time I next post.

WOW!

peregrinus · March 2012

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Mar 1 2012, 05:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't particularly understand what you mean by tiered, if you are meaning the middle area to have an upper area to fight over, or the scaffolding. I think it does need some kind of vertical diversity. The only problem I think I would have, though, is commander camera placement. I would have to make it so the commander can see all three stories of the level, without being too close or too far away from the other ones.</div>

Yea I mean it might be better with different levels. I forgot the commander's view issue. They could be like steps then, so you'd still have the vertical diversity, without obstructing the commanders view. Players could use ramps to go up and down levels.

If ladders are the only way for marines to access an area, then the area favours aliens so I think it's best to limit the number of ladders as much as you can. They're not much fun to use anyway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Mar 1 2012, 05:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Also, what do you mean by the very long beams? Do you mean the large girder scaffolding that keeps the central structure suspended, or do you mean the catwalks that players use to traverse the map? If you are actually meaning the catwalks, then I was having a similar issue, with kind of the same relation.</div>

Yes I'm referring to the long narrow girders rather than the catwalks. But I can see the catwalks could suffer the same problem. You could add some crates and things like that to brake it up, while at the same time keeping the very ordered architecture.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blasphemy @ Mar 1 2012, 05:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1908543"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I found the design of the middle room to be very similar and symmetrical, leaving much confusion of direction if you lose orientation. The catwalks are completely similar on both sides, and the dark of the room does not provide any identifiable landmarks. In order to deal with this, I was considering trying to make a more angular approach to make it less confusing. Possibly having stairways and hallways move about at 45 degrees in places here and there. But I don't know if that would ruin the general feel of order and complexity that I wanted to impose.</div>

Yes players would have to rely on the minimap heavily, which isn't ideal. I think colouring the different sides with light could ruin the feel of the room. I would focus on differentiating the catwalks around the central structure. Make some parts of them covered, others littered with objects, others with stairs, or broken catwalks that require players to jump across. That would really build on the feeling of being on a suspended structure.

One other thing I think I forgot to mention is the shallow depth at which marines are killed from falling. It's quite jarring to see a ragdoll marine all crumpled in mid air, not very far down at all.

Blasphemy · March 2012

Glad to see you're enjoying the map, Soul_Rider.

I just had that hurt entity there to try to signify fall damage from the upper highs. I know you can just walk down the ramps at the side of the room, and instantly die, which breaks immersion. I think we're just going to have to wait for them to implement proper fall damage, and then I can add ways to get back in the fight if you survive the fall.

After I change the layout of the catwalks, I'll see about making the more accessible scaffolding less campy.

I was intending the ladders to be used just as marines to get back up to the proper level, but I suppose if an Onos were to fall down in the same way, it would be rather silly to see him slide up that same ladder. I'll have to figure out a way to fix that.

peregrinus · March 2012

There's a glitchy look to the light seen through the catwalk.

I thought it was dry ice until I went higher and saw it's just a lit room

<img src="http://i43.tinypic.com/6e10td.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Soul_Rider · March 2012

I think that is largely to do with the fact the room is dev textured.

When playtesting an early version of one of my maps, I had to texture the hive because marines were being blinded the the muzzle flashes from tehir guns.

I't may need the light turned down a bit, but I would wait until that is textured to see if it still has the same problem :)

Blasphemy · March 2012

That glitchy looking light that you see would be the atmospherics. You will probably notice the same effect at the reactor core shining through the window. For some reason, the further away the light shines, the more of that effect occurs. Same sort of thing happens with shadows if I'm not mistaken, where the farther the light casts, the more blocky the shadows get.

I'm wondering if I should even bother trying to make that room look like that. I was hoping to try to make it look like that was a large reservoir of water, but I don't really know how I would go about doing it.

BearTaxi · March 2012

Really loving the unique aesthetic of the map! Especially love the middle catwalk area.

My only real complaint at this point is that a lot of the corridors seem to large. I'm not suggesting you make them all smaller, but some more variation would be nice, a few tighter corridors in place of some of the large ones would help.

Blasphemy · March 2012

I'll see about making some of the less industrial areas more bottleneck-like. I've been re-doing Navigation and a bit of Command Center, maybe I can tighten the hallways or add some kind of doorway seal able side passage shortcuts.

hookeyed · March 2012

I really like the awe effect in Storage. It's definitely key in establishing an identity for the map.. right now it seems like skulks and possibly gorges would be at a disadvantage. Maybe if you had some vents and solid walkways here and there.. in a way that would force them to go in and out of cover to navigate the room.
Also, I was wondering what Storage is storing exactly. It feels like there should be something massive or technologically impressive being contained.
The jack platform in Workshop looks like a brilliant place to spam some hydras if you could get up there as a gorge. Great detail overall in that room too, I like how you combine models.
Overall it's a pretty original map idea, and I think you could make it work with more cover for aliens. Can't wait to see Storage textured :)

Blasphemy · March 2012

This is kind of the look of the structure I'm trying to go for in Storage. (The center structure, not the room.)

<img src="http://gajitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/large-hadron-collider.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

I was thinking of opening up Workshop vertically as geometrically it is very basic and honestly, doesn't look like there are many places to hide/fly as a Lerk or Jetpacker.

Blasphemy · March 2012

Here are some screenshots of some recent changes to the map. Appearing at Navigation, Command Center and Observation. I think I need more things near the ceiling. And maybe some hanging obstructions.

<a href="http://i.imgur.com/WFSLC.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/WFSLCl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/IHKrE.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/IHKrEl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/I0Ql0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/I0Ql0l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>

NS2_Goliath

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