I published the new update of the map on the steam workshop. Northwest part of the map doesn't have occlusion geometry yet, and the center part of the map is fairly laggy due to the amount of lights that I didn't get to clean up in time, but everything else should be playable.
EDIT: Another new build. Forgot to make some models and surfaces invisible to commander. Would have been impossible to command in Storage otherwise.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
I was pleasantly surprised by what I saw in today's playtest. I think you've got a nice map going here. The central part is too dark, and the outer ring of the map is not nearly detailed enough for good skulk-marine gameplay. You need more crates, objects, and things for skulks to hide behind. Areas to ambush from the ceiling and sides would also be appreciated. Get creative there. The center part is extremely epic. A ring or "cage" around the tech point made of glass would be nice to prevent gorges from bilebombing down onto the base any marines make. Overall I enjoyed myself, but this map will be tough to balance long term because of the huge proportions. I think it can be done, actually, and I wish you luck.
Heya I played yesterday also, sorry feedback has taken so long.
You have a lot of long, clear hallways running between each tech room without much cover in them, this makes it near impossible for skulk/marine fights from the alien side. Both cover and additional paths(vents!) would do wonders to mitigate that. This is more of an issue on the left side of the map where it's still in the early stages of greyboxing. Each of the outer ring tech points is also very vulnerable to arc sieges, from positions down the end of these long empty hallways where there's no other way to fight back than going through them, or getting around half the map to hit from the other side. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/2oub0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So far as the problem with firing upon hives from a great distance like in Command Centre, I love the compromise you met for Processing. There are alternate paths for the aliens to fight back from below alongside where marines will be shooting from. I never saw that take place, but it's solid in theory. But in general, shooting from doorways into a tech room is ok, shooting from the opposite end of the hall outside of it is not.
You'll want to hide stuff like this and make it non buildable for commanders, because it's not entirely clear from that perspective whether or not people can get in there. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GDzSv.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The area North of Hanger can be fallen into and there's no way to get out for most of the classes on each team- <img src="http://i.imgur.com/SYL3L.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The central areas' size allows you to see beyond the rendering distance for entities. Something else I noted was how easy it was to take out the aliens res points there as a marine, without ever putting yourself in a position of danger. This might be intentional, I'm not sure, but it does make those kind of pointless to capture as the alien com. Artistically it looks great, but it's also extremely busy making it very confusing to navigate through the infrastructure as an alien, yet also cripples marines abilities to win fights in there until they have jetpacks, due to the abundant cover they can't do anything about. The bottom of the area needs some sign for where it will kill you should you touch it(though I have this problem with many areas in NS2 maps).
Overall I like where you're going with it, and the places you've filled out visually so far look great, keep up the good work!
I've already moved the tech point in Comm Center, and tightened up the hallways leading up to that room. So hopefully it will be a lot easier for aliens.
Here are some screenshots of the north entrance to CC. (That same hallway in the playtest when those marines were shooting straight at the hive while two gorges were healing it.)
Attention! Map playtest scheduled this weekend. Approximate time is still to be decided, but stay tuned for more information. (Or talk to JuCCi as he is handling more of the playtest than I am.)
In preparation for this, you guys gotta have some screenshots of some idea of what it is going to look like. And as such, here you are! (P.S.: Click the thumbnails for a larger image.)
Note: The room has been changed around a bit in the first image, but it is such a mess I couldn't take a screenshot of it. That is currently what I am working on now and will provide some images of the room once the change is complete for this weekend.
Honestly I don't really know. I was planning to have it this weekend but then workshop went down and there were problems here and there. I was talking to JuCCi about it and it mostly seems to be a "whenever there are 12 people on" kind of thing. So we may be able to get a playtest going some day through the week if there are enough people on.
I haven't been too active on the map recently due to both wanting to wait on a playtest and things like Guild Wars 2 coming out. But I have just recently drawn a new little concept doodle on how I want to go about doing a part of hangar. I've just recently dabbled a bit on the room. Mostly just re-arranging bits of hangar to be more uniform and scale it larger and taller.
I believe I am developing a habit of "make it bigger" because I get that thought in the back of my mind every time I return to a part of the map I've already done. I have already expanded the center room three times within the map's lifetime, and just recently made hangar bigger, and then again made it bigger still. Whether this is a good thing I have yet to discover.
Maybe if I could draw up more attention through media etc. of the map, that would drum up enough people to do a sufficient map test. Another idea is that I get you guys more involved in the map testing process. What I mean is that we could suggest a time (say 4:00 PM) and get people to post on the thread if they could attend, or if the time could be adjusted for optimal player amount.
So assuming I could get some changes done by Wednesday, would that be a good time? Obviously there will be less people as it is a workday, but from there I could make some quick fixes in order for a larger playtest on the weekend.
Quick update: I published a new build. Unfortunately because of a recent reformat it did not update the original, so for now you have to subscribe to the new duplicate. (The one with the shuttle in the image.)
As I speak my friend is getting a server up so if you guys want to hop in, we can goof around and try to get a game going. Obviously this is a bit sudden so I don't expect many people to know about the test, but I still intend to have another playtest on the weekend so stay tuned for that if you miss this one.
###### man, this map looks awesome. Very atmospheric. I like the lighting, many normal NS2 maps are a little on the bright side, while this seems more reminiscent of the more atmospheric lighting of the NS1 maps.
This weekend I think I do. My PC broke though so am using my old one which I only get about 25FPS when its good and about 10-15 when in combat so am getting a new one this weekend some time. I dont know when though as its my brother whos getting me it. But if i have it saturday Ill be up for it and if not i might do, if this computer can handle it
I'd love to see you there! I realize I haven't been able to be very reliable with these map tests, but I am really looking forward to seeing how you guys react to the changes I've been doing.
Speaking of which, I have been trying to develop a new motif to be used throughout the map. This time I am trying to figure out how to make a "railway" network throughout the ship to move certain cargo around. Kind of like how tram does it, but not to the same extent. While tram had the tracks as a major spine throughout, I don't believe I will be stressing the importance of it as much for Goliath.
Yeah right now I am trying to wrangle my mind around getting it so you can't shoot the hive from across the room. I don't know how much I'll be able to do though because my friend who will be hosting the server is dog tired from staying up all night and might fall asleep if I wait too long.
Bah. I missed the window. The playtest will have to be tomorrow (Sunday). But on the bright side, I have finished the next build and will be uploading it to steam shortly. Here is what I have changed this time. Pieces of note are more floor trains, a central elevator, some crates and that cylindrical thing above the shuttle.
Sorry you missed it, but the good news is that I have a list of things I can do before the next playtest, and depending on how well I get though them, the sooner another test will show itself.
I could probably make announcements of changes as they happen on the group page, but I don't know if you guys would really want to be interested in that kind of stuff.
EDIT: Here is a screenshot of the current look of Workshop. As you can see I am redoing it, but what you can't probably see are the new techniques I implemented in order to get it done quickly and efficiently. That screenshot below took me about an hour to drum that up. Something where if I were to have done it the hammer way (face by face) would have taken a lot longer, and probably look a lot less uniform.
I've been thinking about making a "Tips and Tricks" thread on what things you should and shouldn't do when mapping, but also what things you can do to make mapping easier and faster. With those in mind, I have discovered that mapping can be a whole lot of fun when you get a whole load of stuff done very quickly allowing for almost immediate results.
I've been doing some more progress on Goliath. Workshop is mostly lit now, but since I am actually having a very hard time sticking to the motif, and fairly often just going off on a different tangent, I decided to see if I can get the Ready Room as an example area which has most of the visual look that I want.
Here are the two halls that you go down to join the teams Marine and Alien respectively. I am thinking about doing more to the alien hall. Mainly disabling random lights and adding more orange.
The RR hallways are looking quite good, got a nice mood to them. They are really repetitive though, I suggest breaking up the geometry with some more details like different floor panels, doors on either side, ventilation on the ceiling etc. . . . This might also give you a chance to throw in some small contrasting detail lighting too ;)
Comments
EDIT: Another new build. Forgot to make some models and surfaces invisible to commander. Would have been impossible to command in Storage otherwise.
EDIT2: Onos.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/zHr7P.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/zHr7Pl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Keep it up.
You have a lot of long, clear hallways running between each tech room without much cover in them, this makes it near impossible for skulk/marine fights from the alien side. Both cover and additional paths(vents!) would do wonders to mitigate that. This is more of an issue on the left side of the map where it's still in the early stages of greyboxing. Each of the outer ring tech points is also very vulnerable to arc sieges, from positions down the end of these long empty hallways where there's no other way to fight back than going through them, or getting around half the map to hit from the other side. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/2oub0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So far as the problem with firing upon hives from a great distance like in Command Centre, I love the compromise you met for Processing. There are alternate paths for the aliens to fight back from below alongside where marines will be shooting from. I never saw that take place, but it's solid in theory. But in general, shooting from doorways into a tech room is ok, shooting from the opposite end of the hall outside of it is not.
You'll want to hide stuff like this and make it non buildable for commanders, because it's not entirely clear from that perspective whether or not people can get in there.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/GDzSv.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The area North of Hanger can be fallen into and there's no way to get out for most of the classes on each team- <img src="http://i.imgur.com/SYL3L.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The central areas' size allows you to see beyond the rendering distance for entities. Something else I noted was how easy it was to take out the aliens res points there as a marine, without ever putting yourself in a position of danger. This might be intentional, I'm not sure, but it does make those kind of pointless to capture as the alien com. Artistically it looks great, but it's also extremely busy making it very confusing to navigate through the infrastructure as an alien, yet also cripples marines abilities to win fights in there until they have jetpacks, due to the abundant cover they can't do anything about. The bottom of the area needs some sign for where it will kill you should you touch it(though I have this problem with many areas in NS2 maps).
Overall I like where you're going with it, and the places you've filled out visually so far look great, keep up the good work!
I've already moved the tech point in Comm Center, and tightened up the hallways leading up to that room. So hopefully it will be a lot easier for aliens.
Here are some screenshots of the north entrance to CC. (That same hallway in the playtest when those marines were shooting straight at the hive while two gorges were healing it.)
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/hNfkZ.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/hNfkZl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/Lk2pL.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Lk2pLl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
I plan to have vent access in that little trench in the dark part of the hallway connecting to CC and possibly even Navigations. Thoughts?
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/iSvkF.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/iSvkFl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/K6gyG.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/K6gyGl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/SfEW4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/SfEW4l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/mJTtP.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/mJTtPl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/gs5xD.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/gs5xDl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/MCWcX.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/MCWcXl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Downloadable file here: <a href="http://www.mediafire.com/?1yzw0ru0uql1yv5" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/?1yzw0ru0uql1yv5</a>
In preparation for this, you guys gotta have some screenshots of some idea of what it is going to look like. And as such, here you are! (P.S.: Click the thumbnails for a larger image.)
Note: The room has been changed around a bit in the first image, but it is such a mess I couldn't take a screenshot of it. That is currently what I am working on now and will provide some images of the room once the change is complete for this weekend.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/bJw3i.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/bJw3il.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/nJnBO.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/nJnBOl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/0rU23.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0rU23l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/j8G6j.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/j8G6jl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/pN55h.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/pN55hl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/KbdES.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/KbdESl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/ePYKJ.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/ePYKJl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/uTFEV.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/uTFEVl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/0ZHTP.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0ZHTPl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/Knooc.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/Knoocl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
I believe I am developing a habit of "make it bigger" because I get that thought in the back of my mind every time I return to a part of the map I've already done. I have already expanded the center room three times within the map's lifetime, and just recently made hangar bigger, and then again made it bigger still. Whether this is a good thing I have yet to discover.
Maybe if I could draw up more attention through media etc. of the map, that would drum up enough people to do a sufficient map test. Another idea is that I get you guys more involved in the map testing process. What I mean is that we could suggest a time (say 4:00 PM) and get people to post on the thread if they could attend, or if the time could be adjusted for optimal player amount.
So assuming I could get some changes done by Wednesday, would that be a good time? Obviously there will be less people as it is a workday, but from there I could make some quick fixes in order for a larger playtest on the weekend.
As I speak my friend is getting a server up so if you guys want to hop in, we can goof around and try to get a game going. Obviously this is a bit sudden so I don't expect many people to know about the test, but I still intend to have another playtest on the weekend so stay tuned for that if you miss this one.
Speaking of which, I have been trying to develop a new motif to be used throughout the map. This time I am trying to figure out how to make a "railway" network throughout the ship to move certain cargo around. Kind of like how tram does it, but not to the same extent. While tram had the tracks as a major spine throughout, I don't believe I will be stressing the importance of it as much for Goliath.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/WZTxK.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/WZTxKl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Nice one! Tried somethin' like this myself but looked like crap. Gotta give it another try.
I like your work. Keep going.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/iV8jf.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/iV8jfl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/tOCh6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/tOCh6l.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/nFyzg.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/nFyzgl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
EDIT: That was an excellent map test and I thank you all for attending and I look forward to seeing you guys in game again soon.
By the way. In order to make things a bit easier for those who want to keep up to date, I have created a Goliath Map Testing steam group.
You can find it here: <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoliathMapTest" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GoliathMapTest</a>
Edit: Oh its already happened :(
I could probably make announcements of changes as they happen on the group page, but I don't know if you guys would really want to be interested in that kind of stuff.
EDIT: Here is a screenshot of the current look of Workshop. As you can see I am redoing it, but what you can't probably see are the new techniques I implemented in order to get it done quickly and efficiently. That screenshot below took me about an hour to drum that up. Something where if I were to have done it the hammer way (face by face) would have taken a lot longer, and probably look a lot less uniform.
I've been thinking about making a "Tips and Tricks" thread on what things you should and shouldn't do when mapping, but also what things you can do to make mapping easier and faster. With those in mind, I have discovered that mapping can be a whole lot of fun when you get a whole load of stuff done very quickly allowing for almost immediate results.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/yefiL.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/yefiLl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
Here are the two halls that you go down to join the teams Marine and Alien respectively. I am thinking about doing more to the alien hall. Mainly disabling random lights and adding more orange.
<a href="http://i.imgur.com/GK2Bs.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/GK2Bsl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/0k26b.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/0k26bl.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>