<!--quoteo(post=1927764:date=Apr 20 2012, 10:42 AM:name=Omega_K2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Omega_K2 @ Apr 20 2012, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1927764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the spike/bile bomb damage on lerk is fine. If anything, as people pointed out, the problem is that it seems harder to hit a lerk which can also be related to hitreg and performance problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a big part of it, lerks aren't too bad when you have a couple of skilled players getting a good framerate. When you have a bunch of so so players getting really bad fps is when lerks start to seem really imba.
<!--quoteo(post=1928638:date=Apr 23 2012, 02:44 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Apr 23 2012, 02:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1928638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you do this you have to remove the flamethrower from the game or make it so lerks don't need to constantly pour all their energy into spores in order to do anything remotely effective
guess what's not gonna happen<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> did you play NS1? flapping didn't cost much at all, about as much as energy regen. when you were out just meant you only flapped every 2nd or 3rd keypress, but could still fly. and next chamber tech will bring move speed + energy regen upgrades, right?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once the game comes closer to content complete (Shift/EXO) is when the real balancing begins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> None of the incoming features are relevant to the massive early game imbalance we are facing currently. IMO what needs to happen:
- Cut energy/simplify the res model for commanders (this will force more choices and add more depth) - Increase cost on augmentation/split up augmentation tech per lifeform (bigger sink, more choices) - Address onos earlygame, i.e make him scale from early to late with more than just abilities (i.e onos needs to be weaker early in the game, or come out later) - Slow p.res gain or cut starting p.res, this will increase the duration of 'early game' and buy marines some more time to gathert he needed tech to compete. - Fix gorge
Can somebody tell me how much damage mitigation the lerk wings exactly have? Is it still so you take like 20% less dmg if hit on wings?
Tho im not sure if the lerk really has any problems(at least not with being OP, there is ofc stuff you could work on - tho there were many great posts from ppl on this that got ignored in the past) - its mostly performance related.
Talking about lerk bilebomb rushes:
Its not too bad in a small room like datacore where lerks are very restricted in movement (have a hard time not flying into eachother, marines walls or structures) - so even a big lerk rush can be dealt with by marines with low fps relative well. (since they dont have much room to dodge anyway)
Tho in a room like flight control (and similar big rooms) you can really use the performance drop to your advantage(i refer to almost everything falsely as lag very often for whatever retarded reason tho its usually fps drops or server tickrate drops or choke), you got soo much room to fly like a maniac while dropping bilebombs (you dont need aim for that, so you never have to be in a predictable flight path)
Tho marines need to aim, sudden fps drops below 20 etc. makes it quite hard to fight off such an attack fast enough.
I could go along with the hitreg / performance as being the issue for lerks, but almost each and every game that I play (which sadly is a lot), it becomes more and more apparent that it is more than a performance thing. I had 50+ fps and was fighting a lerk and it was basically just jumping all over the screen and impossible to hit. There is just too much air control with lerks, and it needs to be changed. It's causing the netcode / prediction to mess up. Either that or slow them down.
There seems to be a major disconnect between forum goers and actual people playing the game. Every single game most of the server goes, "lerks are soooo OP", and everyone talks about various points, like bile being too strong or they are too fast, or being unhittable. Yet I come on here, and it almost feels like a good number of people are saying lerks are "ok" except for the performance etc. Now it's almost a joke, like if someone complains about lerks, everyone on alien team goes lerk just to accentuate the point about how OP they are as they completely clear a base in literally 20 seconds.
<!--quoteo(post=1929267:date=Apr 24 2012, 11:45 AM:name=Tyrsis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tyrsis @ Apr 24 2012, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929267"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I could go along with the hitreg / performance as being the issue for lerks, but almost each and every game that I play (which sadly is a lot), it becomes more and more apparent that it is more than a performance thing. I had 50+ fps and was fighting a lerk and it was basically just jumping all over the screen and impossible to hit. There is just too much air control with lerks, and it needs to be changed. It's causing the netcode / prediction to mess up. Either that or slow them down.
There seems to be a major disconnect between forum goers and actual people playing the game. Every single game most of the server goes, "lerks are soooo OP", and everyone talks about various points, like bile being too strong or they are too fast, or being unhittable. Yet I come on here, and it almost feels like a good number of people are saying lerks are "ok" except for the performance etc. Now it's almost a joke, like if someone complains about lerks, everyone on alien team goes lerk just to accentuate the point about how OP they are as they completely clear a base in literally 20 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well to be fair, there seems to be a good number of <u>Marines</u> who complain about Lerks. The next game I see them on the Alien team complaining about how hard Lerk is and how fast they die. I've seen a few Marine players who can just absolutely shred Lerks and make it look easy. To quote one player, "Whenever I fight them the Lerks take a thousand bullets. Whenever I play one I die in two seconds.". It almost reminds me of NS1 where Marines would complain about how overpowered a Fade was and then totally fail at playing one because they didn't realize how high the skill cap was (pre-blink nerf).
It takes a lot of map awareness, map knowledge, and general skill at the Lerk flight model to get to the point where you can fly around the Marine base for a few minutes without having to retreat (assuming no turrent farm). You bump into even the smallest thing (or other Lerk) and you're probably dead. If there's a shotgun marine standing at the exit (who can actually aim and doesn't just think they can), you're probably dead.
The Lerk feels like it has a very high skill cap focused solely on your knowledge of your immediate area and your ability to maintain infinite momentum while gliding (only realized last night that it's possible to infinitely gain momentum while gliding if you do it right). If something was done to bile bomb, or it was removed, I'd hope they would give Lerk something else that can be used in conjunction with the current flight model. Maybe an alternative fire for spores to make it a ranged ability like in NS1.
i think the problem with bile bomb is that the lerk can do it going full speed. If it had some sort of recoil that slowed the lerk a little bit everytime he dropped one, it would make things a little easier. The rest of the lerk mechanics are fine, it's just bb, don't do sweeping changes just to combat this one thing.
Comments
This is a big part of it, lerks aren't too bad when you have a couple of skilled players getting a good framerate. When you have a bunch of so so players getting really bad fps is when lerks start to seem really imba.
guess what's not gonna happen<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
did you play NS1? flapping didn't cost much at all, about as much as energy regen. when you were out just meant you only flapped every 2nd or 3rd keypress, but could still fly.
and next chamber tech will bring move speed + energy regen upgrades, right?
None of the incoming features are relevant to the massive early game imbalance we are facing currently. IMO what needs to happen:
- Cut energy/simplify the res model for commanders (this will force more choices and add more depth)
- Increase cost on augmentation/split up augmentation tech per lifeform (bigger sink, more choices)
- Address onos earlygame, i.e make him scale from early to late with more than just abilities (i.e onos needs to be weaker early in the game, or come out later)
- Slow p.res gain or cut starting p.res, this will increase the duration of 'early game' and buy marines some more time to gathert he needed tech to compete.
- Fix gorge
Tho im not sure if the lerk really has any problems(at least not with being OP, there is ofc stuff you could work on - tho there were many great posts from ppl on this that got ignored in the past) - its mostly performance related.
Talking about lerk bilebomb rushes:
Its not too bad in a small room like datacore where lerks are very restricted in movement (have a hard time not flying into eachother, marines walls or structures) - so even a big lerk rush can be dealt with by marines with low fps relative well. (since they dont have much room to dodge anyway)
Tho in a room like flight control (and similar big rooms) you can really use the performance drop to your advantage(i refer to almost everything falsely as lag very often for whatever retarded reason tho its usually fps drops or server tickrate drops or choke), you got soo much room to fly like a maniac while dropping bilebombs (you dont need aim for that, so you never have to be in a predictable flight path)
Tho marines need to aim, sudden fps drops below 20 etc. makes it quite hard to fight off such an attack fast enough.
There seems to be a major disconnect between forum goers and actual people playing the game. Every single game most of the server goes, "lerks are soooo OP", and everyone talks about various points, like bile being too strong or they are too fast, or being unhittable. Yet I come on here, and it almost feels like a good number of people are saying lerks are "ok" except for the performance etc. Now it's almost a joke, like if someone complains about lerks, everyone on alien team goes lerk just to accentuate the point about how OP they are as they completely clear a base in literally 20 seconds.
There seems to be a major disconnect between forum goers and actual people playing the game. Every single game most of the server goes, "lerks are soooo OP", and everyone talks about various points, like bile being too strong or they are too fast, or being unhittable. Yet I come on here, and it almost feels like a good number of people are saying lerks are "ok" except for the performance etc. Now it's almost a joke, like if someone complains about lerks, everyone on alien team goes lerk just to accentuate the point about how OP they are as they completely clear a base in literally 20 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well to be fair, there seems to be a good number of <u>Marines</u> who complain about Lerks. The next game I see them on the Alien team complaining about how hard Lerk is and how fast they die. I've seen a few Marine players who can just absolutely shred Lerks and make it look easy. To quote one player, "Whenever I fight them the Lerks take a thousand bullets. Whenever I play one I die in two seconds.". It almost reminds me of NS1 where Marines would complain about how overpowered a Fade was and then totally fail at playing one because they didn't realize how high the skill cap was (pre-blink nerf).
It takes a lot of map awareness, map knowledge, and general skill at the Lerk flight model to get to the point where you can fly around the Marine base for a few minutes without having to retreat (assuming no turrent farm). You bump into even the smallest thing (or other Lerk) and you're probably dead. If there's a shotgun marine standing at the exit (who can actually aim and doesn't just think they can), you're probably dead.
The Lerk feels like it has a very high skill cap focused solely on your knowledge of your immediate area and your ability to maintain infinite momentum while gliding (only realized last night that it's possible to infinitely gain momentum while gliding if you do it right). If something was done to bile bomb, or it was removed, I'd hope they would give Lerk something else that can be used in conjunction with the current flight model. Maybe an alternative fire for spores to make it a ranged ability like in NS1.