I thought I was going to read some interesting and insightful ideas rather than the It's DUCK season, NO it's RABBIT season arguement that is the majority of this thread. How about getting back on track and start posting ideas.
I agree A res node should have a defence mechanisim that is alien kham controlable. Like the nano shield. It should deter an attack for a short time. Something like it spurting lerk gas into the air when attacked to deter axes. So marines must change tactics and use ammo.
Idea for res lock. A gorge could have a ability to attach itself and gorge on a uncaptured res node to obtain res when the alien team is res locked. You could have limitations like only the starting res can be fed upon. The res collected would only be tres no pres distributed to the team by gorges collecting res.
Or it could be a Kharmander ability like the nano construct. A kharmander casts a expensive ability on a gorge so it can gorge res from any uncapped res point for a short period.
<!--quoteo(post=1937891:date=May 21 2012, 06:50 AM:name=WorthyRival)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WorthyRival @ May 21 2012, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought I was going to read some interesting and insightful ideas rather than the It's DUCK season, NO it's RABBIT season arguement that is the majority of this thread. How about getting back on track and start posting ideas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, smart people create 'ideas' of this kind by first clearly identifying problems. You know, instead of just randomly coming up with a bunch of fantasy ideas and then writing some bs about how they fit the game :)]
Now, for bonus points: would anyone like to tell me why we have clogs, rifle butt and hallucination?
The amount of discussion put into this strawman disappoints me. Also, if you feel so intelligent rebuking all my points that weren't meant to be taken in full effect feel free to do so; the point of those comparisons is that the teams aren't the same, not to make some argument. And the reason I said whining, is because this thread is a whine thread; no one is ever going to talk about recycling afterwards and no one has before, it's just whining over something that's just different and not imbalanced.
I don't see anything wrong with teams getting res locked or the fact that marines can recycle structures and aliens can't. There's nothing imbalanced about it; aliens don't have anything to recycle in the first place usually, and they have lower TRes costs. Marines constantly have to dump TRes into research and part of a starting build usually involve an armory and an extra IP which is 20 TRes. Aliens don't have to do anything for cysts anymore so their only TRes cost off the bat might be early crag but that's something the commander has to think about.
Also, one team can get res locked and the other can't? What are marines going to do, recycle their IPs in the middle of a skulk rush? Recycle the comm chair? Marines can get res locked just they have structures they can recycle. Aliens don't get res locked because they should manage resources well.
Augmentation costs nothing for the PRes of an alien lifeform and it is an active ability. Marines only get passive upgrades. I hope it will change but aliens also get passive upgrades for free.
We may as well start arguing one team can shoot guns the other can't if we want to use that logic.
Everyone keeps talking about res locking. My earlier point about the res difference when recovering from losing 2 RTs early on (3 down to 1) was more about the difference in how the species recover, and less about getting locked.
To me, I'm in favor of asymetrical design, but ending up with such a substantial difference in resources after recovering is concerning. That is more what I am trying to propose get addressed.
If people cared about res locking they would acknowledge that marines can be res locked as well. What they actually care about is making a flimsy argument for aliens needing the ability to recycle.
<!--quoteo(post=1937985:date=May 21 2012, 11:27 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 21 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If people cared about res locking they would acknowledge that marines can be res locked as well. What they actually care about is making a flimsy argument for aliens needing the ability to recycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's 100x harder to res lock a team that can recycle a couple things in base and get back on their feet than one that doesn't even have that option
that said, i'm not saying aliens should be able to recycle, just that they should have a way to get a single res tower if they have not enough res.
so how about something like, with 0 harvesters, the hive gives the res a single harvester would? up to a total of 10 res, and no PRes is given. and to balance it, do the same for marines and the comm chair. it actually makes sense to me because hives and comm chairs are sitting on top of resource node things..
then neither team can get COMPLETELY res locked and will always be able to get back on their feet.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
I'm not a fan of reslocking as a game mechanism because it leads to a situation where the aliens have basically lost, but the game isn't over (i.e. there is too long of a time between the true victory conditions and the game end). Either aliens need a way to comeback (recycle, one free harvester when no RTs, etc) or the game should just end at that point (you can make it less abrupt by having all alien structures/classes take DOT when they have no RTs). NS2 needs less mechanisms that drag the game out past the point when one team has effectively won.
<!--quoteo(post=1937680:date=May 20 2012, 05:52 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ May 20 2012, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937680"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This idea of "townhall generates res" is unnecessary and exists because of an incorrect analysis of the recycling situation. Woops!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why this thread should just up and die already. Internetexplorer bangs on and on about unnecessary and complex additions to solve current problems, but would rather give the alien team an ability they have never had, and which would have unforeseeable and large scale repercussions, than simply give hives and comms the ability to generate 0.25 res every 8 seconds or whatever.
His agenda is recycling, res locking is just a flimsy façade.
<!--quoteo(post=1937994:date=May 21 2012, 11:59 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 21 2012, 11:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1937994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why this thread should just up and die already. Internetexplorer bangs on and on about unnecessary and complex additions to solve current problems, but would rather give the alien team an ability they have never had, and which would have unforeseeable and large scale repercussions, than simply give hives and comms the ability to generate 0.25 res every 8 seconds or whatever.
His agenda is recycling, res locking is just a flimsy façade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to be more or less where he's going with it, yes.
As far as the passive generation goes, it seems the simplest way to do it is to have it not tied to anything. Having it tied to a CC or a Hive only creatures further complications when you start getting additional CC/Hives.
Comments
I agree A res node should have a defence mechanisim that is alien kham controlable. Like the nano shield. It should deter an attack for a short time.
Something like it spurting lerk gas into the air when attacked to deter axes. So marines must change tactics and use ammo.
Idea for res lock.
A gorge could have a ability to attach itself and gorge on a uncaptured res node to obtain res when the alien team is res locked.
You could have limitations like only the starting res can be fed upon.
The res collected would only be tres no pres distributed to the team by gorges collecting res.
Or it could be a Kharmander ability like the nano construct. A kharmander casts a expensive ability on a gorge so it can gorge res from any uncapped res point for a short period.
Actually, smart people create 'ideas' of this kind by first clearly identifying problems. You know, instead of just randomly coming up with a bunch of fantasy ideas and then writing some bs about how they fit the game :)]
Now, for bonus points: would anyone like to tell me why we have clogs, rifle butt and hallucination?
I don't see anything wrong with teams getting res locked or the fact that marines can recycle structures and aliens can't. There's nothing imbalanced about it; aliens don't have anything to recycle in the first place usually, and they have lower TRes costs. Marines constantly have to dump TRes into research and part of a starting build usually involve an armory and an extra IP which is 20 TRes. Aliens don't have to do anything for cysts anymore so their only TRes cost off the bat might be early crag but that's something the commander has to think about.
Also, one team can get res locked and the other can't? What are marines going to do, recycle their IPs in the middle of a skulk rush? Recycle the comm chair? Marines can get res locked just they have structures they can recycle. Aliens don't get res locked because they should manage resources well.
Augmentation costs nothing for the PRes of an alien lifeform and it is an active ability. Marines only get passive upgrades. I hope it will change but aliens also get passive upgrades for free.
We may as well start arguing one team can shoot guns the other can't if we want to use that logic.
To me, I'm in favor of asymetrical design, but ending up with such a substantial difference in resources after recovering is concerning. That is more what I am trying to propose get addressed.
it's 100x harder to res lock a team that can recycle a couple things in base and get back on their feet than one that doesn't even have that option
that said, i'm not saying aliens should be able to recycle, just that they should have a way to get a single res tower if they have not enough res.
so how about something like, with 0 harvesters, the hive gives the res a single harvester would? up to a total of 10 res, and no PRes is given.
and to balance it, do the same for marines and the comm chair.
it actually makes sense to me because hives and comm chairs are sitting on top of resource node things..
then neither team can get COMPLETELY res locked and will always be able to get back on their feet.
This is why this thread should just up and die already. Internetexplorer bangs on and on about unnecessary and complex additions to solve current problems, but would rather give the alien team an ability they have never had, and which would have unforeseeable and large scale repercussions, than simply give hives and comms the ability to generate 0.25 res every 8 seconds or whatever.
His agenda is recycling, res locking is just a flimsy façade.
His agenda is recycling, res locking is just a flimsy façade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This seems to be more or less where he's going with it, yes.
As far as the passive generation goes, it seems the simplest way to do it is to have it not tied to anything. Having it tied to a CC or a Hive only creatures further complications when you start getting additional CC/Hives.