Black Mesa 2012 media - preparing for release

Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
Anybody who follows black mesa in any way, shape or form, knows they haven't had any new or significant media in a while, and would also know from the devs that upon preparation for release, when the mod was close enough to being finished that they could confidently give a release date and have no trouble making it, they would forgo the blackout and start releasing different types of media over the course of a couple of weeks to prepare for the mod's release.

They just started it:

<a href="https://www.facebook.com/BlackMesaDevs" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/BlackMesaDevs</a>



<img src="http://i.imgur.com/CUQJih.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/EP9JKh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/tYAFeh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/VArLKh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/0sNqmh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/k5WXsh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/aAbfRh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/jY66Oh.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />


Here is comparisons between HL1 and BM
<a href="http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost.php?p=464764&postcount=477" target="_blank">http://forums.blackmesasource.com/showpost...p;postcount=477</a>
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Comments

  • sherpasherpa stopcommandermode Join Date: 2006-11-04 Member: 58338Members
    Ouch, the difference between Valve's Half-Life and the fan-made Source edition only seems to be a couple of years difference technology-wise based on those screenshots: which isn't great considering HL was released 13.5 years ago!* Fingers crossed for the dev team that the nostalgia makes up for the lack of improvement on the fan-made edition!

    <!--sizeo:36--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->*THIRTEEN POINT FIVE YEARS AGO<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    I will afford this a small amount of credulity if they come out with a release date more specific than "in the future."

    I will afford this significantly more credulity if they actually release anything.

    I will afford this a large amount of credulity if "our first release" does <i>not</i> turn out to mean "we have only completed the first chapter but we're going to be done with the rest really soon! No seriously!"
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    edited June 2012
    This IS the build up to release. The only reason they are putting this media out there now is because they can release it

    And they specifically said that the mod would come out before the end of this year by the latest a couple months back as well, if you would like a more solid release date
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    That is not a release date. That is a release half-year. And it's months old too. If they had a solid release date, now would be the right time to spill it.

    The lack of a solid release date means that the mod isn't done yet. Since the mod isn't done yet, it is still vulnerable to schedule slip. We make fun of Valve time, but even by Valve standards this mod is old. There's still plenty of room for schedule slip.

    And I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds "first release" to be a suspicious phrase. How many times do you need to release Half-Life's singleplayer campaign? Sure, there'll be bug fixes to make, but those are usually called patches, not releases. I could be wrong, of course, but it sounds off.

    Just don't get your knickers in a twist, people. If they actually release it, that's cool. Just don't set yourself up for a huge disappointment if this turns out to be false alert.
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    edited June 2012
    "First-release" as in the single player

    The multiplayer will come later, or rather, in the "second" release

    And I'm just pointing out, if you follow the forums and talk to the devs, you know this isn't really a false alert. The first release date was missed back in 2009, and they wanted to make sure to never have that happen again. This, for the really close fans, is basically like the "signal" to let them know that the "polishing" cycle is coming to an end
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Members, Constellation
    I think I just jizzed.
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    Here's two more screens:

    <img src="http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/5/4384/Questionable_ethics_machine.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
    <img src="http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/5/4384/Surface_Tension_Gunfight.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • MonkfishMonkfish Sonic-boom-inducing buttcheeks of terrifying speed&#33; Join Date: 2003-06-03 Member: 16972Members
    Never. Going. To happen.
  • ScytheScythe Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    <!--quoteo(post=1942857:date=Jun 12 2012, 10:20 PM:name=Monkfish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkfish @ Jun 12 2012, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Never. Going. To happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    We now live in a world in which DNF is a real thing you can play. I don't know what to expect anymore.

    --Scythe--
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=1942859:date=Jun 12 2012, 01:40 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Jun 12 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942859"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We now live in a world in which DNF is a real thing you can play. I don't know what to expect anymore.

    --Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Agreed. ANYTHING can happen now DNF is out.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1942760:date=Jun 11 2012, 08:46 PM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ Jun 11 2012, 08:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942760"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This IS the build up to release. The only reason they are putting this media out there now is because they can release it<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No, this is what they do. Every few years, when everyone has given up and nobody cares about their vaporware anymore, they go on a media blitz and make everyone think it's coming soon.

    Every time they do, fewer and fewer people come back and start caring.

    They've dragged their feet and mismanaged this project so completely that people are just bitter about it now.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And they specifically said that the mod would come out before the end of this year by the latest a couple months back as well, if you would like a more solid release date<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's totally believable.
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    edited June 2012
    So one missed release date means every few years now?

    They only ever thought they could make release in 2009, and that was the only time they ever announced a release. Everything before and after it was just community rumors. The only media they uploaded in the span from 2009 to before this media was just to put some progress on the wiki in response to some community members questions. In fact the only released media that was noteworthy in the past 3 years wasn't even done by them, they gave a build to a games magazine and that magazine leaked all their shots onto the internet - shots which were never intended to be seen.

    You have some bets or something you don't want to lose so your just lying to yourself until you actually lose them?
  • DrfuzzyDrfuzzy FEW... MORE.... INCHES... Join Date: 2003-09-21 Member: 21094Members
    This is what its like waiting for BMS with the occasional media updates.

    <img src="http://i.imgur.com/UnMds.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1942929:date=Jun 12 2012, 12:41 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 12 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Every time they do, fewer and fewer people come back and start caring.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <img src="http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5953/rankad.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Just sayin'
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    What is that rank based on?
  • SlainPariahSlainPariah Join Date: 2010-06-19 Member: 72104Members
    I don't know if this was posted but they did a interview last month:
    <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/09/interview-what-happened-to-black-mesa-source-part-1/" target="_blank">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/09...-source-part-1/</a>
    <a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/10/what-happened-to-black-mesa-source-part-two/" target="_blank">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/10...ource-part-two/</a>
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1942965:date=Jun 12 2012, 02:42 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Jun 12 2012, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is that rank based on?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    All the other mods on the site
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    Hm.

    Meanwhile I've finished DNF and I'm close to "finishing" Diablo 3.
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1942968:date=Jun 13 2012, 12:13 AM:name=SlainPariah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SlainPariah @ Jun 13 2012, 12:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/09/interview-what-happened-to-black-mesa-source-part-1/" target="_blank">http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/09...-source-part-1/</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That bit at the end...
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being completely transparent throughout your entire development process is the opposite of that; it’s an easy way to disappoint your fans, because you won’t do everything right the first time, you won’t make perfect predictions, you will fail and make mistakes, state things you want to do and then not deliver. And every time you do, you will disappoint your fans.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ...feels rather relevant.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1942994:date=Jun 13 2012, 03:50 AM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ Jun 13 2012, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942994"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All the other mods on the site<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah but what metric is used to compare them? How many people have looked at your mod's page? How much time has elapsed between when you registered at the site and now? How many screenshots you've uploaded?

    Edit: Interesting article, SlainPariah. Good read.


    Anyway, allow me to summarise the thread so far: A lot of us are skeptical about Black Mesa Source. It has been in development for a long time. I think we're all willing to give it a fair shake if it's ever released, but at this point it's not that we doubt that the BMS team can talk the talk, because they sure can talk the talk. It's that we doubt that they can walk the walk, and nothing short of walking the walk will convince us otherwise. To convince us, they need to walk, not talk. That's really all there is to it.
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    edited June 2012
    Here's a screenshot of one of the prototyping HUDs they made before the current, unrevealed HUD, as well as the "new" mp5 model

    <img src="http://www.wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/5/5a/Bm_retro_hud.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    Also young ELI

    <img src="http://www.wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/f/f8/Youngeli.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

    And another MP5 shot on Surface Tension

    <img src="http://www.wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/c/c0/Pcpp_jan2010_06.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • NeonSpyderNeonSpyder &quot;Das est NTLDR?&quot; Join Date: 2003-07-03 Member: 17913Members
    I already got excited about this. I'm all out of excitement for this.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1942940:date=Jun 12 2012, 08:27 PM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ Jun 12 2012, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1942940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So one missed release date means every few years now?

    They only ever thought they could make release in 2009, and that was the only time they ever announced a release. Everything before and after it was just community rumors. The only media they uploaded in the span from 2009 to before this media was just to put some progress on the wiki in response to some community members questions. In fact the only released media that was noteworthy in the past 3 years wasn't even done by them, they gave a build to a games magazine and that magazine leaked all their shots onto the internet - shots which were never intended to be seen.

    You have some bets or something you don't want to lose so your just lying to yourself until you actually lose them?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Go find Mendasp and ask him about what a mismanged cluster-###### of amateur bull###### working on it was. Zero direction. Zero discipline. Zero guidance. Zero maturity. Zero everything that you need to make a game successful. Be told to work on a map, then be told to scrap it. Be told to work on something else, but not be given the information you need to make it work. Be told to scrap it, then go back and do the first thing you had after you already gave up on it, etc.

    Without release dates you're willing to commit to, you either release crap or nothing at all. Every successful <b>business</b> in any sort of field works around deadlines.

    It's not even like the BMS team had to write a story, come up with map design and major set-pieces, storyboard it, create concept art for the whole thing. The only reason it's taking so long is the project lead wasn't fired and someone with actual experience didn't take his place.

    Example: this guy ###### about 'pressure from the community'. Rather than using that pressure as motivation to get his ###### together and get something done, he chose instead to ignore it completely and stick his head in the sand.

    When you compare other mod teams who have done much more with much less, the Black Mesa guys - all, what, 40 of them, and 9 years of their lives - look like complete imbeciles. Indy teams with 1/4 as much time and 1/4 as many people have released several games in the timeframe they spent <b>not</b> releasing theirs.

    Theirs that, again I should mention, had most of the work already done by Valve.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    I'm gonna have to play devil's advocate here and suggest this instead: The reason they are taking so long is because they CAN. They don't have any deadlines because they don't have any investors seeking to recover their expenses and get their profits. They don't have to pay salaries to their employees because they're all unpaid volunteers.

    You said it yourself: Every successful <b>business</b> in any sort of field works around deadlines. Successful or not, they're no business. Different rules apply.
  • TemphageTemphage Join Date: 2009-10-28 Member: 69158Members
    edited June 2012
    They don't owe it to investors, but they owe it to themselves more than anyone. That and the other 200 people who joined and got burned out on the mod/game thing in the past.

    It's not like anything we're seeing in the screenshots is honestly that impressive. Maybe 4 years ago, now it just looks incredibly dated.

    At least Duke Nukem Forever's perpetual development cycle was spent making it look fairly modern. What the hell have these clowns been doing?
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1943297:date=Jun 14 2012, 08:59 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Jun 14 2012, 08:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943297"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Go find Mendasp and ask him about what a mismanged cluster-###### of amateur bull###### working on it was. Zero direction. Zero discipline. Zero guidance. Zero maturity. Zero everything that you need to make a game successful. Be told to work on a map, then be told to scrap it. Be told to work on something else, but not be given the information you need to make it work. Be told to scrap it, then go back and do the first thing you had after you already gave up on it, etc.

    Without release dates you're willing to commit to, you either release crap or nothing at all. Every successful <b>business</b> in any sort of field works around deadlines.

    It's not even like the BMS team had to write a story, come up with map design and major set-pieces, storyboard it, create concept art for the whole thing. The only reason it's taking so long is the project lead wasn't fired and someone with actual experience didn't take his place.

    Example: this guy ###### about 'pressure from the community'. Rather than using that pressure as motivation to get his ###### together and get something done, he chose instead to ignore it completely and stick his head in the sand.

    When you compare other mod teams who have done much more with much less, the Black Mesa guys - all, what, 40 of them, and 9 years of their lives - look like complete imbeciles. Indy teams with 1/4 as much time and 1/4 as many people have released several games in the timeframe they spent <b>not</b> releasing theirs.

    Theirs that, again I should mention, had most of the work already done by Valve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Ok? I really don't see why that matters at all? This is something they are doing in their free time, for fans of the games. Don't like their work? Don't play it. Simple as that. It's not like you have to buy anything to play it, you don't even need to own a single game for it. I would understand if they were making you pay for it somehow or if you donated money to it, but they don't even accept donations and pay for anything they need themselves. You don't even have to follow it.

    And I don't see how DNF looked modern. It looked about as good as a 2007 game maybe.

    And Mendasp may have had a valid point once, but he left in 2005 and the team has had changes in management, so that's not really a good example. (and btw, HL2 hasn't been out for 9 years)
  • NammNamm Join Date: 2011-12-08 Member: 137116Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1943247:date=Jun 14 2012, 07:19 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeonSpyder @ Jun 14 2012, 07:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I already got excited about this. I'm all out of excitement for this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I never even got excited. Why would the same old game with prettier graphics and, uhm, ragdolls be exciting? Especially when there are sequels... The Half-Life universe have a <b>ton</b> of material for mod teams to dig from (you know, <a href="http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/" target="_blank">this</a>). There's a huge gap between HL1 and HL2 for instance.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Members
    In that case I'd recommend the interview SlainPariah links to. It does touch upon why BMS isn't just Half-Life: Fancy Graphics Edition.
  • Bloodshot12Bloodshot12 Join Date: 2012-05-25 Member: 152578Members
    I want to explode people with this

    <img src="http://wiki.blackmesasource.com/images/3/32/Bm_c2a1a0025.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    edited June 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=1943345:date=Jun 14 2012, 09:40 PM:name=Bloodshot12)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bloodshot12 @ Jun 14 2012, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1943345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And Mendasp may have had a valid point once, but he left in 2005 and the team has had changes in management, so that's not really a good example. (and btw, HL2 hasn't been out for 9 years)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I was reading the thread and I saw my name being mentioned... and I was going to say exactly this, the mod seemed like it had a management change for the better (not very long after I left IIRC, in fact things were improving by the time I left), but I never said it was a ######hole or anything like that. There was little direction or coordination when I was there, that's true, everyone was pretty much doing its own thing. But that was back in like 2004-2005, the mod had barely started back then.

    I didn't even do that much for the mod, in fact what I did was pretty much crap that I'd rather get deleted forever because it was awful, I actually told them not to credit me because I didn't deserve it for the work I had done. I don't remember coming across that negative about them... I never rebuilt or scrapped an entire map as I wasn't there very long, so I don't think someone could have gotten that from me. I don't hate the BMS dev team (current or previous) or anything, as I have no reason for it... so I'm kinda confused.

    Hopefully that clears things up.

    I'm still looking forward to it, btw (I guess this is obvious?).
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