Make Marine Clip 70 Bullets

rmbrown09rmbrown09 Join Date: 2012-10-17 Member: 162592Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Hnnggg</div>It seems that in many marine v skulk scenarios, it ends up being not that the marine dies from poor shooting completely, but rather has to reload. Numerous times personally and from afar I have witnessed a lucky skulk who lived to see another day simply because I needed a few extra bullets. I think giving marines a clip of 70 would help make marine skulk fight more even without swaying marines too heavily. 20 extra bullets wouldn't really change much else in regards to other life forms seeing as onos could give a ###### about bullets, fades blink in and out before it matters and you could get them all off, gorges die quickly anyways. Lurks it could also help combat. Lurks are quite hard to hit as we know and basically nothing stops one from flying through a marine base of 10 people. You're lucky to hit a lurk a couple times in a clip of 50, then it's reload time. 70 bullets would make lurks think a little more about randomly flying through any part of the map.

As far as base pushes go, yes, marines would have an easier time killing things like eggs and whips. But I don't think the difference would be a game breaker. Idk, this is just a simple idea. I'm avoiding homework so I theory cast about NS2 balance instead.
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Comments

  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Members
    No, you have your pistol.
  • SavantSavant Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    I'd like to see the OPTION for the commander to research upgraded clip sizes. This game needs more ways for the commander to choose his tech path.
  • rmbrown09rmbrown09 Join Date: 2012-10-17 Member: 162592Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2048412:date=Dec 19 2012, 11:30 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Dec 19 2012, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, you have your pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ;'(
  • FappuchinoFappuchino Join Date: 2012-10-10 Member: 162008Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048414:date=Dec 19 2012, 11:36 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 19 2012, 11:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048414"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see the OPTION for the commander to research upgraded clip sizes. This game needs more ways for the commander to choose his tech path.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, I wish weapon and armor upgrades carried audiovisual changes, such as a meatier sound or an enhanced appearance. Heck, maybe even change the way you load the clip to make the gun faster on the reload as well. Armor would carry visual changes as well á la Dead Space 2.

    Buuut, shallow pockets as the devs have repeated :P
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    This thread is pretty funny. The human mind's ability to warp reality to fit it's needs is amazing.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    why not dual-wield instead? Pistol already does the most damage out of any gun in the game per second. Imagine the damage you could do with 2.
  • ImbalanxdImbalanxd Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104581Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048423:date=Dec 20 2012, 09:06 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 20 2012, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not dual-wield instead? Pistol already does the most damage out of any gun in the game per second. Imagine the damage you could do with 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Grenade Launcher does highest DPS.

    In fact even if I wasn't being pedantic I'm relatively sure the rifle still does more DPS than the pistol.
  • ShrimmShrimm Join Date: 2012-10-05 Member: 161652Members
    I'm sorry but this is just dumb. You're suggesting marines get an extra 200 damage per clip at weapons zero...

    No offense I can't aim much either, but the solution to your problem is to l2aim. You can kill a skulk in half a second if your aim is true.
  • KopikatKopikat Join Date: 2012-09-06 Member: 158170Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048423:date=Dec 19 2012, 11:06 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 19 2012, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why not dual-wield instead? Pistol already does the most damage out of any gun in the game per second. Imagine the damage you could do with 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Only vs flesh, really. Armor cuts the pistol's damage down to nothin'.
  • GlissGliss Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14800Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2048410:date=Dec 19 2012, 10:19 PM:name=rmbrown09)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rmbrown09 @ Dec 19 2012, 10:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048410"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems that in many marine v skulk scenarios, it ends up being not that the marine dies from poor shooting completely, but rather has to reload.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    this is definitely true, but isn't that just a sign of the Skulk outplaying the marine and baiting him into missing more shots? either way it's irrelevant - your aim can always get more efficient, don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=2048416:date=Dec 20 2012, 09:43 AM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Dec 20 2012, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048416"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually, I wish weapon and armor upgrades carried audiovisual changes, such as a meatier sound or an enhanced appearance. Heck, maybe even change the way you load the clip to make the gun faster on the reload as well. Armor would carry visual changes as well á la Dead Space 2.

    Buuut, shallow pockets as the devs have repeated :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The LMG already changes sound with weapon upgrades, not sure about the other weapons.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048425:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:08 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ Dec 20 2012, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048425"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenade Launcher does highest DPS.

    In fact even if I wasn't being pedantic I'm relatively sure the rifle still does more DPS than the pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    nope, pistol fire rate is still 0.1 seconds and does almost twice the damage of a rifle per shot, and this depends either on how fast you click which is easier to do with buttons bound to keyboard, or a script. I'm not against scripting personally, having your damage output depend on a fricking QTE every time you shoot is just a bad gameplay mechanic.
  • KwisatzHaderachKwisatzHaderach Join Date: 2012-02-06 Member: 143872Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited December 2012
    No!
    If you run out of ammo and get killed by a skulk it is your fault. There are three things you might have done wrong:

    1.) You didn't make your shots count. ROF is actually really high with the LMG, still, you got 50 bullets. It takes how many bullets to kill an carapaxed Skulk? Around eight or ten, I believe. So, roughly, only every 5th shot has to hit. The trick is not to start shooting wildly as soon as you see the Skulk, because if I'm that Skulk I will try to bait you into start shooting and then make evasive maneuvers (behind crates, up the ceiling, dodging). Most marines make the mistake to keep firing once they started, no matter how off their aim is. Learn to control your trigger, burst only when you get a sure hit, conserve your ammo.

    2.) You ramboed. When you are going in alone, expect to get eaten by a Skulk, because if the Skulk knows what he is doing, he will waylay you and usually get the first bite. When you are in a group, try to coordinate firing and reloading with your buddies, so you never have to reload at the same time.

    3.) You forgot that you have a trusty sidearm, your pistol. As was mentioned before, the pistol is a very potent weapon, it's dead accurate, got a high ROF and does serious damage. While being in a fight, usually switch to pistol than to reload your LMG. If you run out of pistol ammo too switch back to LMG and use the rifle butt or try to reload.
  • gnoarchgnoarch Join Date: 2012-08-29 Member: 156802Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I once played a couple of matches with a guy named arc|fana. He basically killed 3 skluks per clip and one more with his pistol. So the games went like this: He went to one side of the map and stopped Aliens from exiting their main hive into one direction, while the rest of the team tried to hold one of the hives on the other side of the map.

    This guy died 2 times (literally 2) having something about 30 kills.

    What I'm trying to say is: No, I think with a 70 round lmg clip he would have killed that damn main hive on his own (or would be virtually unkillable as he can kill 6 skulks per clip +1 with pistol)
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2048436:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:43 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Dec 20 2012, 02:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->nope, pistol fire rate is still 0.1 seconds and does almost twice the damage of a rifle per shot, and this depends either on how fast you click which is easier to do with buttons bound to keyboard, or a script. I'm not against scripting personally, having your damage output depend on a fricking QTE every time you shoot is just a bad gameplay mechanic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Pistol is light damage vs LMG's normal damage, so it really depends what the player is shooting.

    For vanilla skulks, the pistol kills a skulk in 5 bullets, or in ~0.4s assuming a refire of 0.1s (ignoring that not really humanly possible to consistently do or aim while shooting). An lmg kills a skulk in 9-10 bullets with a fire rate of about 0.055s, so ~0.44s - 0.5s assuming every bullet hits. The LMG is also much easier to use and has a higher magazine size.


    On topic, it is not necessary to increase magazine size to 70 bullets. I'd rather just see animations smoothed out and other performance based issues addressed so that marines can consistently kill skulks in 9-20 bullets instead of 20-50.
  • DwavenhobbleDwavenhobble Join Date: 2012-12-14 Member: 175044Members
    edited December 2012
    the only thing I'd like to see is weapon switching being slightly quicker as if I've blown out a Rifle clip even switching to a pistol seems to take just slightly too long sometimes
  • gnoarchgnoarch Join Date: 2012-08-29 Member: 156802Members, Reinforced - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=2048452:date=Dec 20 2012, 10:09 AM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 20 2012, 10:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only thing I'd like to see is weapon switching being slightly quicker as if I've blown out a Rifle clip even switching to a pistol seems to take just slightly too long sometimes<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Id like the last used weapon key back. Best feature ever.
  • SpaceJewSpaceJew Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048457:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:27 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 20 2012, 03:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Id like the last used weapon key back. Best feature ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Pretty much this.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members
    Increasing the clip size is a skill independent buff to marines vs skulk (aliens in general, but skulk is most important). It assumes that skulk are too strong against marines at all skill levels.
    We don't know if this is true or not due to the lack of balance teams or statistics. We don't even know what is the design goal concerning skulk vs marine.

    Something one could do is increase the clip size, increase the skulk health and lower all speed on the alien side. It would make aiming easier while keeping the skulk vs marine balance unchanged, some arguments for it can be found in the hit-reg thread, as even decent marines can't tell if they miss or not without looking at recording frame by frame. The obvious downside is that it would lower the skill ceiling.
  • SoulfighterSoulfighter Join Date: 2012-11-05 Member: 167432Members
    basic lmg with no weapon upgrade requires only 10 bullets to kill a skulk, which is only 1/5 of your magazine.

    HEY HOW ABOUT YOU TRY TO ASK YOURSELF WHAT YOU'RE DOING WRONG INSTEAD OF ASSUMING IT'S THE GAME'S FAULT

    what i read when i saw your post was basically "i can't aim so i'd like to be able to spread bullets everywhere forever to get kills"
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    BWAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • VeNeMVeNeM Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 928Members
    oh wait... youre actually SERIOUS?!
  • DummDumm Join Date: 2012-10-20 Member: 162842Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2048498:date=Dec 20 2012, 10:10 PM:name=Soulfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soulfighter @ Dec 20 2012, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->basic lmg with no weapon upgrade requires only 10 bullets to kill a skulk, which is only 1/5 of your magazine.

    HEY HOW ABOUT YOU TRY TO ASK YOURSELF WHAT YOU'RE DOING WRONG INSTEAD OF ASSUMING IT'S THE GAME'S FAULT

    what i read when i saw your post was basically "i can't aim so i'd like to be able to spread bullets everywhere forever to get kills"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no play only one , play teamplay together , NS2 teamplay game , not oneshot and fragshot game like a COD4/CODBO/BF3 .
  • HeatSurgeHeatSurge Some Guy Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159438Members, Reinforced - Supporter
  • KeldornKeldorn Join Date: 2012-05-05 Member: 151587Members
    Marine with godly aim and good environment sense >>>> an equal skilled skulk, just because of the marine attacking first.
  • wirywiry Join Date: 2009-05-25 Member: 67479Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2048533:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:52 PM:name=Keldorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keldorn @ Dec 20 2012, 02:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine with godly aim and good environment sense <<<< an equal skilled skulk, just because of the alien attacking first.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    FTFY
  • MestaritonttuMestaritonttu Join Date: 2004-07-29 Member: 30229Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
    <!--quoteo(post=2048457:date=Dec 20 2012, 11:27 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 20 2012, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Id like the last used weapon key back. Best feature ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't get why people need this. You don't have every weapon bound to its own key? I've like rifle Q, pistol mousescroll, axe 1.
  • ZetsZets Join Date: 2012-12-12 Member: 174881Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--coloro:#FF8C00--><span style="color:#FF8C00"><!--/coloro-->Be nice.
    -Align<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
  • KeldornKeldorn Join Date: 2012-05-05 Member: 151587Members
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2048535:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:14 PM:name=wiry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wiry @ Dec 20 2012, 03:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048535"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->FTFY<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think you know what you're talking about then, the only circumstance where this would be true is in the case of camouflage, and that has its drawbacks just as well.

    I mean with godly aim marines, the kind of marines that look at you and you die, much like chuck norris would. :) The kind of marine where people would yell "hacker !!!", but its just a skill thing. The kind of marine you can't possibly ambush effectively. Ranged > melee, as long as you don't miss. :)
  • joederpjoederp Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165992Members
    Hi guys I agree with the OP also I think the skulks should do 200 damage per bite and bite 5 times per second and run 200% faster because so many times I see an alien try to kill a marine only to be gunned down and barely get one bite off =(
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