<!--quoteo(post=2048704:date=Dec 20 2012, 09:33 PM:name=MMZ_Torak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MMZ_Torak @ Dec 20 2012, 09:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funny, I don't even use the scripts you imply I use.
I just can't stand the McCarthyism that people like you heap on others. Even those that simply use scripts to rebind keys to a more ergonomic layout.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't imply that you use it, I'm implying that you think it's fair to use it if you so choose to do so. Big difference. Also, if you can't see the difference between scripting rebinds and scripting shooting at humanly impossible speeds I think we're done here as the discussion isn't going to go anywhere in the near future. Also for some reason, you think I'm (we?) talking about every single thing you can do with scripting, which is wierd as it's been specifically said "shooting faster than humanly possible".
<!--quoteo(post=2048706:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:37 PM:name=SanCo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SanCo @ Dec 20 2012, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't imply that you use it, I'm implying that you think it's fair to use it if you so choose to do so. Big difference. Also, if you can't see the difference between scripting rebinds and scripting shooting at humanly impossible speeds I think we're done here as the discussion isn't going to go anywhere in the near future.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I clearly see the difference; those with the pitchforks and torches do not.
<!--quoteo(post=2048653:date=Dec 20 2012, 04:08 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Dec 20 2012, 04:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048653"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its easier. A solo onos will never touch my solo jetpack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Wrong on so many levels. First off, jetpack thrust isn't unlimited. You *WILL* run out of juice and then you *WILL* get eaten. It's not a matter of 'if' it's a matter of 'when'. If you think you can permanently evade an Onos while killing it, then you're playing a different game. With the exception of a few spots on some maps that would lend itself to this, most maps are cramped affairs that don't give a jetpacker much advantage at all. Sure you can evade an Onos in many places by running away, but you won't be killing it. If you perch up high he'll just duck into a corridor and regen.
Secondly, unless you have better than 95% accuracy with an LMG, <b>you won't have enough ammo</b> to solo an Onos. If you have a shottie it's even less likely because of bullet spread. So please don't try and give us the bull about you soloing Onos. No one is buying it.
I had a battle with an Onos the other day, and I had a jetpack with my LMG. I was fortunate that I was playing on Mineshaft, since there are a few great areas. Anyway, I was losing thrust and went up into an area near cave where there are stalagmites, and the Onos got stuck. Despite unloading every last bullet I had from my LMG and pistol, I couldn't kill him because I was short on ammo. (I didn't have full ammo when I engaged) The circumstances in which a person has to be in are exceedingly narrow.
<!--quoteo(post=2048604:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:59 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 20 2012, 02:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048604"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->lol it should be obvious that a single marine shouldnt match up well against a 70+ res lifeform, and i have stated this umpteen times. lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I see, so it's OK for a single skulk to "match up well against a 70+ res" unit, but not for marines? Wow, bias much? Like I said, the developers disagree with you.
Pistol scripts should be squashed by UWE. There's nothing that players can do to prevent other players from using them. It's arguably cheating, but anyone with a macro-enabled mouse/keyboard or autohotkey can do it. After considering this, how is running a pistol script much different from having really nice headphones compared to a speaker user? Or how is it different from using a mechanical keyboard instead of a standard keyboard? Both of these situations give a similar scenario: one player has an input or output advantage that another player doesn't have unless he has similar levels of gear.
It's still unfair, though. And UWE should address it by tweaking pistols so scripting is not possible or much less effective. IE increasing fire delay to 0.2 or 0.3 and increasing damage or making it a machine pistol so everyone can just hold down the trigger. This would also have to come with an increase in refire rate, probably to ~0.2.
<!--quoteo(post=2048685:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:14 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Dec 20 2012, 02:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048685"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You go to an open room and don't sit in the hall with an onos in it. If the onos doesn't follow, use your range. I also like to jump into vents and spray the onos until he has to retreat. Then you get out and follow.
Maybe I should state that this is only true if both players are smart. The only way a solo onos can kill a jetpacker is by outsmarting him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, but how do you deal with an Onos on your way to these large open rooms without taking a pg?
Seriously, you make it sound as if anyone w/ a JP who manages to get killed by an Onos is an idiot and doesn't know how to play.
<!--quoteo(post=2048710:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:41 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 20 2012, 02:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048710"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wrong on so many levels. First off, jetpack thrust isn't unlimited. You *WILL* run out of juice and then you *WILL* get eaten. It's not a matter of 'if' it's a matter of 'when'. If you think you can permanently evade an Onos while killing it, then you're playing a different game. With the exception of a few spots on some maps that would lend itself to this, most maps are cramped affairs that don't give a jetpacker much advantage at all. Sure you can evade an Onos in many places by running away, but you won't be killing it. If you perch up high he'll just duck into a corridor and regen.
Secondly, unless you have better than 95% accuracy with an LMG, <b>you won't have enough ammo</b> to solo an Onos. If you have a shottie it's even less likely because of bullet spread. So please don't try and give us the bull about you soloing Onos. No one is buying it.
I had a battle with an Onos the other day, and I had a jetpack with my LMG. I was fortunate that I was playing on Mineshaft, since there are a few great areas. Anyway, I was losing thrust and went up into an area near cave where there are stalagmites, and the Onos got stuck. Despite unloading every last bullet I had from my LMG and pistol, I couldn't kill him because I was short on ammo. (I didn't have full ammo when I engaged) The circumstances in which a person has to be in are exceedingly narrow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't just hover above the onos... You just prove my point that onos only kills jetpackers when tbe onos is smarter than them.
LMG will kill a skulk in <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->10-9<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shots at wep0, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->9<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep1, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->8<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep2, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->7<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep3 LMG kill kill a cara in <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->13-14<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shots at wep0, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->12<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep1, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->11<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep2, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->10-11<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep3
So it does not take much, if you can get 6-8 lmg hits and 1-2 pistol hits you will kill skulk.... Basically use your pistol and axe, there quite good
<!--quoteo(post=2048720:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:49 PM:name=MiniH0wie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MiniH0wie @ Dec 20 2012, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048720"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, but how do you deal with an Onos on your way to these large open rooms without taking a pg?
Seriously, you make it sound as if anyone w/ a JP who manages to get killed by an Onos is an idiot and doesn't know how to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do it with your jetpack. In case you haven't figured it out, tap the spacebar. If you are just running, you don't need to get much air. You will be there fast.
You have screwed up if you die to a lone onos when you have a jetpack. It is too easy to run or get somewhere that they can't touch you.
<!--quoteo(post=2048665:date=Dec 20 2012, 02:29 PM:name=Kopikat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kopikat @ Dec 20 2012, 02:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then Exo's should insta-kill Skulks in the same way they do to Eggs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you can aim at a skulk they go down pretty damn fast
Lots of side topics here.. the only thing I feel like needs to be remedied is the skulk vs exo event. A single skulk is definitely too effective at an exo's feet due to the vision limitations of an exo, combined with no damage to the skulk when the exo steps on it. Also nearby marines / MACs block most of your exo shots making it even easier for a couple skulks to just run around the floor biting exo legs for much longer than they should be able to. Something should be done about this, I'm not sure exactly what - the two ideas I had are already stated in this thread by others:
-Exo does some damage to skulk by stepping on it -Exo armor is more resistant to skulk bites (I don't really like this idea personally)
The step damage really makes the most sense, since if you step on an egg it dies instantly - but if that egg hatches to a skulk it does zero damage? Uh ok then..
The problem now is a pack of skulks will do much more damage to a group of exos than a pack of marines will do to a pack of onos. Jetpacks help level the playing field IF there is room to dance around the onos, which usually there is not. There is however ALWAYS room for the skulks to dance around the exo's feet.
Note: I am not saying a single skulk should ever be able to take down a single exo - that would mean the exo has terrible aim indeed. I'm more thinking of when a group of exo's come in to a hive, all it takes is a couple onos to distract them while 2-4 skulks run around their feet biting the crap out of them, and by the time they notice the tiny little skulk quietly biting at their feet they are already over half dead. This technique is too effective and I am not talking about rookie servers, I see this happen all the time with good players which is why I barely ever see Exo's used in servers with highly skilled players- they usually prefer jetpacks since they are cheaper to upgrade to , cheaper to buy, and are HIGHLY effective in the hands of a skilled player at taking a hive down. Having a highly skilled player in an Exo does increase its chances to be effective but no matter how good your aim is, if a mac / friendly exo is too close it blocks all your shots to the ground anyway.. very frustrating.
It is easy to protect exos from skulks. The problem is exos have no ability to get out after their support is forced to beacon or dies. An onos can still run when their support goes down. I'm not sure how to fix this. They need a way to retreat.
They could also use more health if you are comparing them to onos. An exo vs onos fight isn't much of a contest.
<!--quoteo(post=2048733:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:01 PM:name=lumina)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lumina @ Dec 20 2012, 03:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do it with your jetpack. In case you haven't figured it out, tap the spacebar. If you are just running, you don't need to get much air. You will be there fast.
You have screwed up if you die to a lone onos when you have a jetpack. It is too easy to run or get somewhere that they can't touch you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2048709:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:40 PM:name=MMZ_Torak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MMZ_Torak @ Dec 20 2012, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I clearly see the difference; those with the pitchforks and torches do not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you wouldn't have a problem with the game letting other players know when someone is using scripts?
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.
<!--quoteo(post=2048784:date=Dec 20 2012, 03:12 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Dec 20 2012, 03:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048784"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Make a forum topic with a how-to on pistol scripting and see how fast the forum mods shut it down.
That should tell you if it's 'intended' or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2048827:date=Dec 20 2012, 04:14 PM:name=bongofish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bongofish @ Dec 20 2012, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you wouldn't have a problem with the game letting other players know when someone is using scripts?
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you look at the biggest competitive shooter in history (Counter Strike: 1.6, source, GO) with the most prize money and games played, scripting is a huge part of the game that people recognize. Bunny hopping is scripted, dualies are scripted for attack, plenty of other things like hud configs and weapon views..
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a>
<!--quoteo(post=2048853:date=Dec 20 2012, 05:06 PM:name=rmbrown09)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rmbrown09 @ Dec 20 2012, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you look at the biggest competitive shooter in history (Counter Strike: 1.6, source, GO) with the most prize money and games played, scripting is a huge part of the game that people recognize. Bunny hopping is scripted, dualies are scripted for attack, plenty of other things like hud configs and weapon views..
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, it's almost laughable how people want to bring bunny hopping back. For skill-based scripting.
Scripting should NOT be allowed. You are receiving assistance from a machine. You are reducing input into the game, and therefore human error that can be remedied with practice.
*The game needs to increase the delay between rounds. This is the only game where my quickfire mouse macro has worked, I'd never used it in anything else.
<!--quoteo(post=2048853:date=Dec 20 2012, 04:06 PM:name=rmbrown09)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rmbrown09 @ Dec 20 2012, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you look at the biggest competitive shooter in history (Counter Strike: 1.6, source, GO) with the most prize money and games played, scripting is a huge part of the game that people recognize. Bunny hopping is scripted, dualies are scripted for attack, plenty of other things like hud configs and weapon views..
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> just because it's a part of CS does not mean it should be a part of NS2.
I think we can all agree that it's objectively better for any game not to need external scripts in lieu of in-game functionality.
<!--quoteo(post=2048929:date=Dec 20 2012, 07:11 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Dec 20 2012, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, it's almost laughable how people want to bring bunny hopping back. For skill-based scripting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121930&hl=" target="_blank">properly implemented bunnyhopping does not require any scripts or mousewheel binds</a>.
the pistol can also be broken down into the same possibilities brought forward by bunnyhopping:
if the issue is left alone, 1) players who are not using macros will be at a disadvantage 2) players will be forced to use a macro to stay competitive
with our current replay system, there's no way to enforce no macros or scripts.
the only remaining possibility is simply to have everyone be able to hold fire or hold to burst fire (could be interesting) to max out the rate of fire. the issue with this is that the pistol's greatest strength comes from being able to dish out high burst damage in small amounts of time.
it would require the pistol to be rebalanced - slower shots but for more damage is a possibility.
edit: the easiest yet most limiting possibility is simply to introduce a rate of fire cap that's attainable, but as I said I strongly prefer the burst damage potential of the pistol so it would have to be very mild to keep the same role without being shafted into a little used weapon.
Never understood why the pistol still turns into one of the best weapons in the game against skulks when scripted. Make it automatic or keep the single shot but a fire rate nerf is important.
<!--quoteo(post=2049012:date=Dec 20 2012, 11:49 PM:name=Gliss)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gliss @ Dec 20 2012, 11:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just because it's a part of CS does not mean it should be a part of NS2.
I think we can all agree that it's objectively better for any game not to need external scripts in lieu of in-game functionality.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121930&hl=" target="_blank">properly implemented bunnyhopping does not require any scripts or mousewheel binds</a>.
the pistol can also be broken down into the same possibilities brought forward by bunnyhopping:
if the issue is left alone, 1) players who are not using macros will be at a disadvantage 2) players will be forced to use a macro to stay competitive
with our current replay system, there's no way to enforce no macros or scripts.
the only remaining possibility is simply to have everyone be able to hold fire or hold to burst fire (could be interesting) to max out the rate of fire. the issue with this is that the pistol's greatest strength comes from being able to dish out high burst damage in small amounts of time.
it would require the pistol to be rebalanced - slower shots but for more damage is a possibility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2048827:date=Dec 20 2012, 06:14 PM:name=bongofish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bongofish @ Dec 20 2012, 06:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you wouldn't have a problem with the game letting other players know when someone is using scripts?
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, we can make people wear your scarlet letter; as soon as we make scarlet letters for:
Very fast Broadband connections Really high end Computers Marco enabled Keyboards High DPS Mice
Because scripts offer about as much advantage as any of these things.
Now, I do believe that the pistol ROF should be capped so that scripts cannot turn it into a machine gun.
Everything is "secretive" until you know about it. Scripts are not the best way to do things, in fact they can make you quite predictable (see RJing scripts in TF2 and similar games). They make you perform the tasks in a very predictable way and make you an easy target. Anyone with scripting experience will tell you that you are much better off learning how to really perform the task because you will have significantly better control and much less predictability that way.
People hear "scripts" and immediately start their witch hunt. I am just saying that this is extremely blown out of proportion. Scripts are not the Win button everyone thinks they are. They have plenty on non-performance enhancing uses that get tossed out with the bath water when the Angry Mob starts banging on the door.
<!--quoteo(post=2048444:date=Dec 20 2012, 01:50 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Dec 20 2012, 01:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048444"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I once played a couple of matches with a guy named arc|fana. He basically killed 3 skluks per clip and one more with his pistol. So the games went like this: He went to one side of the map and stopped Aliens from exiting their main hive into one direction, while the rest of the team tried to hold one of the hives on the other side of the map.
This guy died 2 times (literally 2) having something about 30 kills.
What I'm trying to say is: No, I think with a 70 round lmg clip he would have killed that damn main hive on his own (or would be virtually unkillable as he can kill 6 skulks per clip +1 with pistol)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not sure if it has been said before - but there is a high chance that he was using aimbot (auto-aim)
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths - There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))
<!--quoteo(post=2049223:date=Dec 21 2012, 09:08 AM:name=Horror Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Horror Fox @ Dec 21 2012, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CS never allowed scripting in competitive play. That argument is silly. There were a lot of small leagues, so maybe some did. You couldn't in CAL or CPL play though. Bunny hopping would cause you to forfeit rounds. You could probably get away with a pistol script since there were legal ways to fire fast. You weren't doing it legally if you used a script though.
I guess you could script in cs as long as it didn't provide an advantage. You could use scripts to buy stuff at the beginning of rounds.
<!--quoteo(post=2049223:date=Dec 21 2012, 03:08 PM:name=Horror Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Horror Fox @ Dec 21 2012, 03:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not sure if it has been said before - but there is a high chance that he was using aimbot (auto-aim)
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths - There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2049223:date=Dec 21 2012, 09:08 AM:name=Horror Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Horror Fox @ Dec 21 2012, 09:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not sure if it has been said before - but there is a high chance that he was using aimbot (auto-aim)
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths - There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! There are 3 types of reactions noobs have to getting smoked when they play skilled players:
1.) Whine and accuse hacks
2.) Post on forums about how they saw a hacker
3.) Realize you suck and try to get better
I will be honest that when I was a noob, my gut reaction was #1 - I couldn't believe anyone could be that good. But as you play the game more and get better you will see it is possible, it just takes a LOT of practice. I'm not very good yet but at least I can finally "see" how it can be done. There may be an aimbotter once in a great while but they will be impossible to determine anyway with no first person spectating. I think a lot of noobs suspect cheaters because they join a "rookie friendly" server, where most players are noobs - then you always seem to get that one guy who is pro and racks up a ridiculous k:d ratio to boost his ego. Its understandable that someone new to the game might suspect he is cheating when hes the only one there pulling off insane snap shots with the shotgun or landing >90% shots with the LMG because the skulks attacking him don't know how to jump around etc.
<!--quoteo(post=2049223:date=Dec 21 2012, 08:08 AM:name=Horror Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Horror Fox @ Dec 21 2012, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049223"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->not sure if it has been said before - but there is a high chance that he was using aimbot (auto-aim)
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths - There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I just can't stand the McCarthyism that people like you heap on others. Even those that simply use scripts to rebind keys to a more ergonomic layout.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't imply that you use it, I'm implying that you think it's fair to use it if you so choose to do so. Big difference. Also, if you can't see the difference between scripting rebinds and scripting shooting at humanly impossible speeds I think we're done here as the discussion isn't going to go anywhere in the near future. Also for some reason, you think I'm (we?) talking about every single thing you can do with scripting, which is wierd as it's been specifically said "shooting faster than humanly possible".
I clearly see the difference; those with the pitchforks and torches do not.
Secondly, unless you have better than 95% accuracy with an LMG, <b>you won't have enough ammo</b> to solo an Onos. If you have a shottie it's even less likely because of bullet spread. So please don't try and give us the bull about you soloing Onos. No one is buying it.
I had a battle with an Onos the other day, and I had a jetpack with my LMG. I was fortunate that I was playing on Mineshaft, since there are a few great areas. Anyway, I was losing thrust and went up into an area near cave where there are stalagmites, and the Onos got stuck. Despite unloading every last bullet I had from my LMG and pistol, I couldn't kill him because I was short on ammo. (I didn't have full ammo when I engaged) The circumstances in which a person has to be in are exceedingly narrow.
It's still unfair, though. And UWE should address it by tweaking pistols so scripting is not possible or much less effective. IE increasing fire delay to 0.2 or 0.3 and increasing damage or making it a machine pistol so everyone can just hold down the trigger. This would also have to come with an increase in refire rate, probably to ~0.2.
Maybe I should state that this is only true if both players are smart. The only way a solo onos can kill a jetpacker is by outsmarting him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, but how do you deal with an Onos on your way to these large open rooms without taking a pg?
Seriously, you make it sound as if anyone w/ a JP who manages to get killed by an Onos is an idiot and doesn't know how to play.
Secondly, unless you have better than 95% accuracy with an LMG, <b>you won't have enough ammo</b> to solo an Onos. If you have a shottie it's even less likely because of bullet spread. So please don't try and give us the bull about you soloing Onos. No one is buying it.
I had a battle with an Onos the other day, and I had a jetpack with my LMG. I was fortunate that I was playing on Mineshaft, since there are a few great areas. Anyway, I was losing thrust and went up into an area near cave where there are stalagmites, and the Onos got stuck. Despite unloading every last bullet I had from my LMG and pistol, I couldn't kill him because I was short on ammo. (I didn't have full ammo when I engaged) The circumstances in which a person has to be in are exceedingly narrow.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't just hover above the onos... You just prove my point that onos only kills jetpackers when tbe onos is smarter than them.
LMG will kill a skulk in <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->10-9<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shots at wep0, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->9<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep1, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->8<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep2, <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->7<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep3
LMG kill kill a cara in <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->13-14<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> shots at wep0, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->12<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep1, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->11<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep2, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->10-11<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> wep3
So it does not take much, if you can get 6-8 lmg hits and 1-2 pistol hits you will kill skulk.... Basically use your pistol and axe, there quite good
Seriously, you make it sound as if anyone w/ a JP who manages to get killed by an Onos is an idiot and doesn't know how to play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do it with your jetpack. In case you haven't figured it out, tap the spacebar. If you are just running, you don't need to get much air. You will be there fast.
You have screwed up if you die to a lone onos when you have a jetpack. It is too easy to run or get somewhere that they can't touch you.
if you can aim at a skulk they go down pretty damn fast
-Exo does some damage to skulk by stepping on it
-Exo armor is more resistant to skulk bites (I don't really like this idea personally)
The step damage really makes the most sense, since if you step on an egg it dies instantly - but if that egg hatches to a skulk it does zero damage? Uh ok then..
The problem now is a pack of skulks will do much more damage to a group of exos than a pack of marines will do to a pack of onos. Jetpacks help level the playing field IF there is room to dance around the onos, which usually there is not. There is however ALWAYS room for the skulks to dance around the exo's feet.
Note: I am not saying a single skulk should ever be able to take down a single exo - that would mean the exo has terrible aim indeed. I'm more thinking of when a group of exo's come in to a hive, all it takes is a couple onos to distract them while 2-4 skulks run around their feet biting the crap out of them, and by the time they notice the tiny little skulk quietly biting at their feet they are already over half dead. This technique is too effective and I am not talking about rookie servers, I see this happen all the time with good players which is why I barely ever see Exo's used in servers with highly skilled players- they usually prefer jetpacks since they are cheaper to upgrade to , cheaper to buy, and are HIGHLY effective in the hands of a skilled player at taking a hive down. Having a highly skilled player in an Exo does increase its chances to be effective but no matter how good your aim is, if a mac / friendly exo is too close it blocks all your shots to the ground anyway.. very frustrating.
It is easy to protect exos from skulks. The problem is exos have no ability to get out after their support is forced to beacon or dies. An onos can still run when their support goes down. I'm not sure how to fix this. They need a way to retreat.
They could also use more health if you are comparing them to onos. An exo vs onos fight isn't much of a contest.
You have screwed up if you die to a lone onos when you have a jetpack. It is too easy to run or get somewhere that they can't touch you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I bow down to your greatness and ultimate wisdom.
That should tell you if it's 'intended' or not.
So you wouldn't have a problem with the game letting other players know when someone is using scripts?
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.
Nuff said.
That should tell you if it's 'intended' or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2048827:date=Dec 20 2012, 04:14 PM:name=bongofish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bongofish @ Dec 20 2012, 04:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you wouldn't have a problem with the game letting other players know when someone is using scripts?
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you look at the biggest competitive shooter in history (Counter Strike: 1.6, source, GO) with the most prize money and games played, scripting is a huge part of the game that people recognize. Bunny hopping is scripted, dualies are scripted for attack, plenty of other things like hud configs and weapon views..
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a>
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, it's almost laughable how people want to bring bunny hopping back. For skill-based scripting.
Scripting should NOT be allowed. You are receiving assistance from a machine. You are reducing input into the game, and therefore human error that can be remedied with practice.
*The game needs to increase the delay between rounds. This is the only game where my quickfire mouse macro has worked, I'd never used it in anything else.
Scripts are an accepted and known part of CS, don't know why it would need to be any different here.
For example, this is a vid of a highly competitive player gaming on ESEA servers in bracket using a bhop script.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYEyIGLRqW0</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
just because it's a part of CS does not mean it should be a part of NS2.
I think we can all agree that it's objectively better for any game not to need external scripts in lieu of in-game functionality.
<!--quoteo(post=2048929:date=Dec 20 2012, 07:11 PM:name=Fappuchino)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fappuchino @ Dec 20 2012, 07:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2048929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, it's almost laughable how people want to bring bunny hopping back. For skill-based scripting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121930&hl=" target="_blank">properly implemented bunnyhopping does not require any scripts or mousewheel binds</a>.
the pistol can also be broken down into the same possibilities brought forward by bunnyhopping:
if the issue is left alone,
1) players who are not using macros will be at a disadvantage
2) players will be forced to use a macro to stay competitive
with our current replay system, there's no way to enforce no macros or scripts.
the only remaining possibility is simply to have everyone be able to hold fire or hold to burst fire (could be interesting) to max out the rate of fire. the issue with this is that the pistol's greatest strength comes from being able to dish out high burst damage in small amounts of time.
it would require the pistol to be rebalanced - slower shots but for more damage is a possibility.
edit: the easiest yet most limiting possibility is simply to introduce a rate of fire cap that's attainable, but as I said I strongly prefer the burst damage potential of the pistol so it would have to be very mild to keep the same role without being shafted into a little used weapon.
I think we can all agree that it's objectively better for any game not to need external scripts in lieu of in-game functionality.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121930&hl=" target="_blank">properly implemented bunnyhopping does not require any scripts or mousewheel binds</a>.
the pistol can also be broken down into the same possibilities brought forward by bunnyhopping:
if the issue is left alone,
1) players who are not using macros will be at a disadvantage
2) players will be forced to use a macro to stay competitive
with our current replay system, there's no way to enforce no macros or scripts.
the only remaining possibility is simply to have everyone be able to hold fire or hold to burst fire (could be interesting) to max out the rate of fire. the issue with this is that the pistol's greatest strength comes from being able to dish out high burst damage in small amounts of time.
it would require the pistol to be rebalanced - slower shots but for more damage is a possibility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good post.
I wouldn't mind scripts as long as there was full disclosure on who is using them. Preferrably also which exact scripts they were using.
It's the fact that they are so secretive that is the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, we can make people wear your scarlet letter; as soon as we make scarlet letters for:
Very fast Broadband connections
Really high end Computers
Marco enabled Keyboards
High DPS Mice
Because scripts offer about as much advantage as any of these things.
Now, I do believe that the pistol ROF should be capped so that scripts cannot turn it into a machine gun.
Everything is "secretive" until you know about it. Scripts are not the best way to do things, in fact they can make you quite predictable (see RJing scripts in TF2 and similar games). They make you perform the tasks in a very predictable way and make you an easy target. Anyone with scripting experience will tell you that you are much better off learning how to really perform the task because you will have significantly better control and much less predictability that way.
People hear "scripts" and immediately start their witch hunt. I am just saying that this is extremely blown out of proportion. Scripts are not the Win button everyone thinks they are. They have plenty on non-performance enhancing uses that get tossed out with the bath water when the Angry Mob starts banging on the door.
This guy died 2 times (literally 2) having something about 30 kills.
What I'm trying to say is: No, I think with a 70 round lmg clip he would have killed that damn main hive on his own (or would be virtually unkillable as he can kill 6 skulks per clip +1 with pistol)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not sure if it has been said before - but there is a high chance that he was using aimbot (auto-aim)
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths -
There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))
Um, okay?
I guess you could script in cs as long as it didn't provide an advantage. You could use scripts to buy stuff at the beginning of rounds.
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths -
There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Gold
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths -
There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL! There are 3 types of reactions noobs have to getting smoked when they play skilled players:
1.) Whine and accuse hacks
2.) Post on forums about how they saw a hacker
3.) Realize you suck and try to get better
I will be honest that when I was a noob, my gut reaction was #1 - I couldn't believe anyone could be that good. But as you play the game more and get better you will see it is possible, it just takes a LOT of practice. I'm not very good yet but at least I can finally "see" how it can be done. There may be an aimbotter once in a great while but they will be impossible to determine anyway with no first person spectating.
I think a lot of noobs suspect cheaters because they join a "rookie friendly" server, where most players are noobs - then you always seem to get that one guy who is pro and racks up a ridiculous k:d ratio to boost his ego. Its understandable that someone new to the game might suspect he is cheating when hes the only one there pulling off insane snap shots with the shotgun or landing >90% shots with the LMG because the skulks attacking him don't know how to jump around etc.
I think (atleast this is what i see) u have 3 different catogery(or catergorie) that a player can fell under
1) - Noob/newb/beginner
2) - Basic/Normal/(little bit decent)
3) - Auto-Aim/Aimbot/(any other kind of hacking programs)
---------
It is impossible to play fair or legit if u have over 30 kills and only 2 deaths -
There is something wrong about it - even if "VAC Guard"is active (they say under the shop) it's not doing a great job at all.
i have played with(and against at) alot of players that are using auto-aim and they usually have twice or three times+ more kills then deaths
I don't think "Skilled players" exist in this game to be honest. only well-played players or people know what to do(above number 2))<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
God I hope you're not serious....