UWE: You have done nothing to balance this game again.

MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
I was told by UWE via twitter that "Balance is always a priority". Not a high enough of one after 3 patches and nothing has changed.

NS2Stats.org, build 239/239 only:
Publc play: Aliens won: 62%
Competitive play: Aliwns won: 71%

Thats right, 71%. You don't believe me look for yourself.

My personal stats. Played 10 games. Aliens won 8 out of 10!!! 80%.
Run your own stats, please. Its fun.

You cry marines need to "Learn to play". I cry if the aliens do not have to "L2P" in an equal amount, THEN THE GAME IS UNBLANCED AND MUST BE FIXED.
UWE's shotgun change HAS DONE NOTHING.

Its only been a couple days but its off to a real, real, real, bad start.

That it. Nothing else to say. Nothing.



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Comments

  • FlipperFlipper Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Members
    No amount of number balancing can compensate for derpy teams or bad teamwork. Its easier to win on aliens as you don't require teamwork and the average player is a better skulk than marine.

    Also ns2stats is on very few servers compared to the number out there.

    Third and most importantly every game depends of balance of the team, balance in commander skill, its not simply marine rifle needs a buff, its much more player driven in this game than most as its not a straight up rts where every unit is predictable and consistent.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    I see 41/58 on ns2stats.
  • FlipperFlipper Join Date: 2012-08-08 Member: 155120Members
    Davil wrote: »
    I see 41/58 on ns2stats.

    In what world are there 58 servers?
  • KuddlyKalliKuddlyKalli Yuggera Country Join Date: 2010-12-23 Member: 75905Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    While one or two minor tweaks may have crept from the upcoming balance mod into these patches, they were NOT balance patches and are not expected to result in significant change.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    While one or two minor tweaks may have crept from the upcoming balance mod into these patches, they were NOT balance patches and are not expected to result in significant change.

    Quite apparent in what I have been seeing for months.

  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    Flipper wrote: »
    Davil wrote: »
    I see 41/58 on ns2stats.

    In what world are there 58 servers?

    Filter by build 238/239 only.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
  • AfterhoursAfterhours Join Date: 2012-09-18 Member: 159869Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I like how OP posts a bunch of meaningless info and then doesnt provide any suggestions for game balance...

    "This game of soccer is so dumb, something needs to be done, but I don't know why or what, just something."
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    MrChoke wrote: »
    I was told by UWE via twitter that "Balance is always a priority". Not a high enough of one after 3 patches and nothing has changed.

    NS2Stats.org, build 239/239 only:
    Publc play: Aliens won: 62%
    Competitive play: Aliwns won: 71%

    Thats right, 71%. You don't believe me look for yourself.

    My personal stats. Played 10 games. Aliens won 8 out of 10!!! 80%.
    Run your own stats, please. Its fun.

    You cry marines need to "Learn to play". I cry if the aliens do not have to "L2P" in an equal amount, THEN THE GAME IS UNBLANCED AND MUST BE FIXED.
    UWE's shotgun change HAS DONE NOTHING.

    Its only been a couple days but its off to a real, real, real, bad start.

    That it. Nothing else to say. Nothing.



    I'm with you on this but you need to realize that they're only going to "balance" it when they can/want

    You should also learn that play-testers do not get to have any say in balancing the game. They're there to play in-house builds to test stability and have tea together in their clubhouse. That's it.

    The development team wouldn't respond to your tweet with "We have better things to do than patch these issues right now"

    Anyway, I've given up on trying to make sense of it. I only play marines if I see other competent players with mics, otherwise its aliens ho. I can take a well-played alien loss. I can't take a 3 minute marine game, because the people can't overcome the already ridiculous requirements to properly playing TSF. Flayra wants this game to be what he wants, and that's how it's going to be balanced. I'd link his google document on the balancing goals of NS2, but I can't find it.
  • TimariusTimarius Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171220Members
    Convince the marine teams I command to buy mines when I research them, and to place them in the sweet spots I tell them, and marines win all the time, even if they're terrible shots. Okay, that's a lie. No amount of mines or res advantage can cover for 5 guys who get mowed down by 2 skulks.

    My point is: Use mines. Your early game Pres isn't worth jack. Get mines.

    And always, always have a welder after they're researched. There is no excuse not to have one.
  • buhehebuhehe Join Date: 2012-05-15 Member: 152140Members
    edited February 2013
    MrChoke wrote: »
    My personal stats. Played 10 games. Aliens won 8 out of 10!!! 80%.
    Run your own stats, please. Its fun.

    Making "statistics" out of 10 games, like a boss

    By the way... you were just unlucky.
    Assuming pub aliens win chance is 60%, you have a 16,7% to win 2 matches or less out of 10.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    Flipper wrote: »
    Davil wrote: »
    I see 41/58 on ns2stats.

    In what world are there 58 servers?

    41/58 as in 41% marines and 58% aliens...
  • JeffeyJeffey Join Date: 2012-09-15 Member: 159508Members
    I remember playing against someone named MrChoke earlier today that was complaining about the game balance being terrible. Your team did terrible. Maybe not individually, but there didn't seem to be any coordination. On that server, to say the least everyone was pretty new. Nobody knew that much about the tactics of the marine game. I remember every veil game you guys spent contesting topo/skylights and nothing else. I think one push on c-12. On tram not a single marine ever harassed a harvester and then you complained about the marines not being able to do anything. I don't think I ever saw one mine dropped either.

    I don't know if the games balanced, but you experiences about the game for this build mean diddly squat because it's quintessential anecdotal evidence. NS2Stats doesn't mean shit either. If you can provide some insight on what needs to be balanced that'd help, but this is just complaining.
  • PeppermintNightmarePeppermintNightmare Join Date: 2013-02-02 Member: 182743Members
    Yeah, you can just call the game unbalanced when your team doesn't play well.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited February 2013
    People don't seem to understand that balance = 1:1 ratio of chance of winning when both teams have identical skill and aren't retarded. If marines can't aim or play correctly then lose, you can't just say the game is unbalanced, that was the players fault, NOT the game.

    EDIT: PERFECT balance, in a game like NS2 where both teams are different is impossible, but I'd say it could get to a 55:45 or 60:40 ratio.
  • CatCopCatCop Join Date: 2003-08-28 Member: 20296Members, Constellation
    edited February 2013
    People would call StarCraft 2 imbalanced if they weren't organized into leagues (Bronze/Silver/Gold/Plat/Diamond/Master/GrandMaster) because (1) there are some things that 'work' really well and (2) some people that don't have the time available to get as good at the game as much as other people, which creates an imbalance in skill level. And not to mention you can choose to be the same race if you want, so no one is forced to play a team they're not as good with.

    NS2 does not have the player count to organize people based on their win rate hence people will (almost) never experienced a balanced playing field. Nor is it possible to make two teams equally as easy (or difficult?) to pick up. Aliens have a slight advantage that, in my eyes, doesn't ruin the game. Maybe the content is being inserted to sort of balance the game out, but it definitely isn't worth changing much leading up to game changing content.

    I also find that I enjoy the game most surrounded with positive people who enjoy working together. For that reason I have friends I join off of and play with/against. I find the more friends I have in the game the better and more balanced the game feels, simply because I know these people communicate and will help coordinate their team either on my team or the opposing. Teamwork is OP and needs to be nerfed. imo.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members
    what we need is to open up a thread with a vote, which race is OP this patch?

    then we just let the people saying 'Marines' argue with the people saying 'Aliens' in the thread

    problem solved
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    We all know how that poll is gonna go 8-|
  • |strofix||strofix| Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165453Members
    OP, I wonder if you realise how badly you torpedo your own threads when constantly mentioning that you have played X games and aliens have won Y. I mean, people were going to disagree to begin with, but after saying that every single time...
  • MavickMavick Join Date: 2012-11-07 Member: 168138Members
    edited February 2013
    The gaming community as a whole has been hammered with the ongoing trend of major games making rash, badly tested decisions when it comes to balance. All they hear is masses of people screaming "FIX THIS", so they do, with a 10 ton sledgehammer. It, almost always, starts a never ending cycles of making OP this, and nerfed that. You can't look at any heavily played, AAA title and not see some hint of that somewhere.

    Call me crazy, but I rather like UWE's small, measured approach in regards to balance. And I know most other, experienced and rational thinking gamers do as well. After all, this has always been a niche games for people like us, and UWE, without a doubt, knows who they are catering too. And, 60something to 40something is not that goddamn terrible for a game that's not solely reliant on individual skill but also teamwork, the concept that even elite, highly skilled gamers tend to overlook, from time to time.
  • MavickMavick Join Date: 2012-11-07 Member: 168138Members
    I will also add, I know there's been alot of discussion and consensus revolving around what player cap the game is balanced towards. That being 8v8. That might be the goal, but honestly, I think the game plays out much more balanced at 12 v 12. I've ran a 24 player server since right after release, and throughout every build, and even more so now, whichever team has the better, more coordinated team, even if BOTH teams have good players on them, wins. You'll still see that odd bile rush or shotgun rush surprising teams caught sleeping, but the averages play out just like they should.

    And while it is technically still tagged as a rookie server, since my admins and myself encourage bringing along new players, it realistically lost that status a couple months ago. There are good players on my server all the time.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    sharnrock wrote: »
    why release a huge balance patch before a huge content patch? Seems counter productive.

    I never asked for a "huge" balance patch. I don't think it needs huge changes to be better balanced. An argumnet could be made that they will care more about balanacing with and hopefully after this content patch. But its been months of this imbalance. They should have done more about this problem before now.

    Afterhours wrote: »
    I like how OP posts a bunch of meaningless info and then doesnt provide any suggestions for game balance...

    "This game of soccer is so dumb, something needs to be done, but I don't know why or what, just something."

    I have done multiple threads on "why" it is out of balance and given some suggestions to fix it. They have been lit on fire, shot down and cut into a million pieces. I am done with doing that.

    buhehe wrote: »
    MrChoke wrote: »
    My personal stats. Played 10 games. Aliens won 8 out of 10!!! 80%.
    Run your own stats, please. Its fun.

    Making "statistics" out of 10 games, like a boss

    By the way... you were just unlucky.
    Assuming pub aliens win chance is 60%, you have a 16,7% to win 2 matches or less out of 10.

    10 games is a little light, I agree. I am going keep counting. For build 236/237, I played 95 games, aliens won 65, 68%. More inline with NS2Stats,org and lines up with the obvious game imbalance that we have.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    Jeffey wrote: »
    I remember playing against someone named MrChoke earlier today that was complaining about the game balance being terrible. Your team did terrible. Maybe not individually, but there didn't seem to be any coordination. On that server, to say the least everyone was pretty new. Nobody knew that much about the tactics of the marine game. I remember every veil game you guys spent contesting topo/skylights and nothing else. I think one push on c-12. On tram not a single marine ever harassed a harvester and then you complained about the marines not being able to do anything. I don't think I ever saw one mine dropped either.

    I don't know if the games balanced, but you experiences about the game for this build mean diddly squat because it's quintessential anecdotal evidence. NS2Stats doesn't mean shit either. If you can provide some insight on what needs to be balanced that'd help, but this is just complaining.

    Yes, that was me. That was part of a 5 game losing streak for marines. Our team stunk, I can't argue it. It is the main reason why my personal ratio is 80% aliens and not closer to 70%.

    I won't go into why we failed so much because it doesn't matter unless you want to argue how to fix it, which I do not. You say the marine team was new. That is probably true. Was the alien team new? Maybe. Maybe not. The skills required for the marine team to win so outweigh the skills required for the alien team to win, they may be new, it doesn't matter. It is these enormous difference in skill required to win that is the imbalance. You can look at individual games and know why a team lost.

    But the bigger picture is, marines OVERALL are not able to "learn to play" well enough to compete with the alien team who doesn't need near as much skill.

    The goal of a game is to have fun. And a balanced game will generate the most fun. People cry how marines need to learn to play. Everybody can use some "L2P", even me. That is not the point. Having a fun, balanced game is the point. And this simply is not there and UWE is not doing enough about it. Period.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    |strofix| wrote: »
    OP, I wonder if you realise how badly you torpedo your own threads when constantly mentioning that you have played X games and aliens have won Y. I mean, people were going to disagree to begin with, but after saying that every single time...

    I want people to keep their own stats. People say NS2Stats is not running on many servers. I don't know how true that is. But it is the only statistics we have unless UWE has some that they might want to share. To help defuse this argument of how NS2Stats is on a small amount of servers, I want people to see it for themselves. Keep your own stats. Prove it to yourself.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2013
    Mavick wrote: »
    The gaming community as a whole has been hammered with the ongoing trend of major games making rash, badly tested decisions when it comes to balance. All they hear is masses of people screaming "FIX THIS", so they do, with a 10 ton sledgehammer. It, almost always, starts a never ending cycles of making OP this, and nerfed that. You can't look at any heavily played, AAA title and not see some hint of that somewhere.

    Call me crazy, but I rather like UWE's small, measured approach in regards to balance. And I know most other, experienced and rational thinking gamers do as well. After all, this has always been a niche games for people like us, and UWE, without a doubt, knows who they are catering too. And, 60something to 40something is not that goddamn terrible for a game that's not solely reliant on individual skill but also teamwork, the concept that even elite, highly skilled gamers tend to overlook, from time to time.

    I don't want or think this game needs a big change to be closer to balanced. They have made a feew minor changes in the last 2 patches. But they have not worked. Maybe the jurt is still out on this patch, we'll see. I doubt if these changes will help much either.

    A 60/40 ratio is not horrendous but I don't think it's acceptable either. Don't forget in "competitive" games, the people who supposedly live and breathe NS2, it is 70/30. Do you think that is acceptable?
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I'd say I'm pretty close to 50/50 myself, maybe SLIGHTLY more as aliens? I dunno, I seem to do ok, used to lose most marine games, but now that I'm playing better (and I assume others are too) I seem to be going pretty even. I know it can't be exactly even, but it doesn't FEEL uneven.
  • -WildCat--WildCat- Cape Town, South Africa Join Date: 2008-07-19 Member: 64664Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    MrChoke, you sound like you're extremely enraged by this "lack of balance". I think it's time to take a chill pill, broseph. The game is still exceptionally entertaining despite these imperfections. Have patience, for NS2 will become even more awesome than it is right now.
  • gnoarchgnoarch Join Date: 2012-08-29 Member: 156802Members, Reinforced - Gold
    Mavick wrote: »
    Call me crazy, but I rather like UWE's small, measured approach in regards to balance. And I know most other, experienced and rational thinking gamers do as well. After all, this has always been a niche games for people like us, and UWE, without a doubt, knows who they are catering too. And, 60something to 40something is not that goddamn terrible for a game that's not solely reliant on individual skill but also teamwork, the concept that even elite, highly skilled gamers tend to overlook, from time to time.


    YES! Exactly this. Between any balance changes or drastic shifts of the metagame, there should be a fair amount of time for players to adept.

    Just take the camo topic. Before Christsmas Camo was this thing that surely would cause the universe to explode of imbaness if it was not drastically nerfed ASAP.
    Some people here wrote a thesis or PhD about how imba Camo is and demanded hard nerfs.

    Look at the situation now: While there is the occasional camo roflstomp against moron marines/marines with moron comm/marines that just got surprised, shade first got just another opening option that will not result in an instawin.

    Imagine if UWE had nerfed camo... it would be downright useless now.

    I also think the shotgun buff will need another 2 weeks to fully develop it's impact on balance. I predict that people will more and more invest into shotguns instead of saving for exo. BUT thats no immediate process after the patch. Most people don't just buy more sgs because it was buffed. They happen to buy one, realize they are more efficient with it than before and then get used to buy it more frequent.


    Just take Blizzard which is probably the best company when it comes down to tweaking balance: They really take their time before they nerf/buff certain things. Some issues like too cheap bunkers for terrans were in the game for like a year or something before they got adjusted. And that's a good thing. It is really important to let things play out for a bit and make sure there is an actual imbalance instead of the metagame needing some evolving.
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    There hasn't been in a balance patch since launch pretty much so it's not entirely surprising the win stats are still skewed.
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