As much as I want a bigger community for this game, it has no need for people that don't even like it.
Does it have any need for the people who played natural-selection 1 for years, pre-ordered years in advance based on nothing but gratitude for NS1 and a wish to have NS2 see the light of day?
It sure does not seem like it. All the people I used to play with in NS1 have given up on NS2 to the point of not even checking in every once in a while to see if NS2 is improving.
I played NS1 as well, and it was good, NS2, is not, NS1. The game IS different, if you don't like what it IS then sorry, this game doesn't need you. The game isn't going to change to suit your needs. It's the dev's vision.
Judging by your hatred of many of my posts I know this is meant negatively. With that, blow me.
As much as I want a bigger community for this game, it has no need for people that don't even like it.
I like the concept of it. I like the ponteial it has. How about that then?
Read above, tldr; this game is it's own game. This is the way it is, if something is truly out of balance, the devs will change it because they want to.
You are in no position to tell people whether they are welcome in this community or not. If the devs want us ns1 vets to stfu they can say so themself, they dont need you for that.
It has been mentioned a few times that the NS community was what allowed NS2 to take form and (hopefully) turn into a financial success. If the very same community has issues with the game and people like you succeed in driving everyone away who is critical, this community will not be around much longer.
You are in no position to tell people whether they are welcome in this community or not. If the devs want us ns1 vets to stfu they can say so themself, they dont need you for that.
It has been mentioned a few times that the NS community was what allowed NS2 to take form and (hopefully) turn into a financial success. If the very same community has issues with the game and people like you succeed in driving everyone away who is critical, this community will not be around much longer.
That isn't what he said at all though.
Yes, I'm sure UWE are eternally grateful to many of the NS1 players who bought into the alpha (myself included), before anything had really taken shape. And yes, there are a number of NS1 players who bought into the alpha that aren't entirely happy with all the new directions the game was taken in (myself included).
But the very thing that spawned this amazing and awesome franchise of gaming was the developers independent thinking and creativity. I don't know about you, but when I support a game, I don't support the game itself, and everything inside the game, while forgetting everything it took to make the game the way it is. Instead, I support the creators vision.
People shouldn't now turn around and complain because they weren't supporting UWE and their gaming vision, but rather they were supporting the creation of the new NS1 which is just the old NS1 but with more bells and whistles. Then UWE are essentially working for us and we are merely giving them their paycheck, and I'm sure that isn't what they wanted.
It really...really hurts me, to agree with exactly what strofix said here. That's how strongly I feel about this point. This is NOT your game, sorry if it isn't living up to your expectations, but the dev's are doing what they can, and I for one, like it.
You may play around with your words as you like, if somebody tells my "We dont need you here" I take that as pretty offensive. No doubt, Mr. Choke was ranting and raging but your behaviour of picking on people is something I dont want to see in a community.
Well I think it says a lot about the game that it is significantly more fun losing on marines than it is winning on aliens.
Winning on aliens would be more fun if it wasn't so expected. I think it has a lot to do with balance. As a marine every moment is hard-fought even with a considerable lead. As an alien I can often look at the minimap five minutes in and say "yep, we've won." On the alien team it feels like I'm playing by the books, on the marine team you're always fighting just to keep your head above water.
Outside of the obvious 60/40 balance issue, I think it's just far too difficult for pub marines to apply pressure. As a result aliens rarely feel pressured which makes for unexciting gameplay.
A lot of it falls on marines being afraid to do anything. I got called a noob for researching mines instantly and telling 3 guys to pressure the hive constantly. Oh well, I recycled and left.
i think larger maps will help... and soon ppl will be going gorge more often to use the new features... then less early skulk rushes... and if there are bigger maps (veil) then aliens will take longer to get anywhere, where marines just need a pg.
I think a big issue is that the new players really don't know how useful the map is. half the time i have the map up so i can see where the action is or where we're being attacked. using the map needs to be stated to new ns players
As much as I want a bigger community for this game, it has no need for people that don't even like it.
Does it have any need for the people who played natural-selection 1 for years, pre-ordered years in advance based on nothing but gratitude for NS1 and a wish to have NS2 see the light of day?
It sure does not seem like it. All the people I used to play with in NS1 have given up on NS2 to the point of not even checking in every once in a while to see if NS2 is improving.
I played NS1 as well, and it was good, NS2, is not, NS1. The game IS different, if you don't like what it IS then sorry, this game doesn't need you. The game isn't going to change to suit your needs. It's the dev's vision.
I think the problem many people have with NS2 is that it really is not very different from NS1. So what really is new about NS2?
- Alien khamm
- Flamer
- Power/Cyst
- less Alien Upgrades
- Mobile Sieges
- New HA system
And the problem that arises is that at least half of these new things really mess with the balance of the game.
So most people dont complain about NS2 being different from NS1, they complain about NS2 doing things wrong that were done right in NS1.
Just to get this straight: I also like NS2(alot).
But the first time I played it (I think build 190 or sth) I was kinda disappointed. I thought this was exactly like NS1 with-apart from khamm - a few minor changes and ALOT of features missing after about 5 years of development.
By now there are many new features but to me this does not feel that much different to NS1. Its more like a NS1 with better graphics but some doubtable new gameplay mechanics. So thats why people keep comparing both games.
As much as I want a bigger community for this game, it has no need for people that don't even like it.
Does it have any need for the people who played natural-selection 1 for years, pre-ordered years in advance based on nothing but gratitude for NS1 and a wish to have NS2 see the light of day?
It sure does not seem like it. All the people I used to play with in NS1 have given up on NS2 to the point of not even checking in every once in a while to see if NS2 is improving.
I played NS1 as well, and it was good, NS2, is not, NS1. The game IS different, if you don't like what it IS then sorry, this game doesn't need you. The game isn't going to change to suit your needs. It's the dev's vision.
Judging by your hatred of many of my posts I know this is meant negatively. With that, blow me.
As much as I want a bigger community for this game, it has no need for people that don't even like it.
I like the concept of it. I like the ponteial it has. How about that then?
Read above, tldr; this game is it's own game. This is the way it is, if something is truly out of balance, the devs will change it because they want to.
But NS2 is not a new game. It is a botched attempt to remake NS1. Charlie wanted to fix some of the flaws in NS1, but in nearly every case the cure is has been shown to be far worse than the disease. Charlie wanted some features he could not make in NS1; nearly every one of these sacrifice gameplay on the altar of immersion.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Ns2 is not a remake.
I'm pretty sure almost every dev that's posted in the forums has said exactly that at one point?
As far as religious ns1 fans' desires: doesn't ns2: classic satiate this? If not you and your friends who don't play ns2, expecting ns1, should make a mod.
Contrary to popular belief, many diehard NS1 fans actually find fault in changes, not just because they are changes, but because they are crap ones. I echo Soylent's frustration that most of the features designed to cure flaws in NS1 have failed or just created worse problems. Features have been shoehorned in because they sound awesome and the focus on immersion has cluttered the few features that are good.
The Khammander is still really boring, misplaced and unfinished.
The new Pres/Tres economy hasn't made the game easier to scale at all.
Letting everyone take lifeforms/weapons has diluted comm control of strategy.
Equipment and lifeforms are everywhere so we get a kind of combat/classic mishmash.
RFD is a horrendous and strange replacement for RFK.
Wallhopping is no way near mature enough to replace bunnyhopping.
The powergrid/infestation are unnecessary and restrictive.
The gorge has been relegated and is no longer the essential cog it once was.
To make the game accessible, they've thrown in annoying visual clutter which is the cheap way out.
To make the game accessible, they've created zero-skill end-game units.
Turtles are just as big a problem as ever.
It took me two seconds to right that list and I could go on (as I have done in many other threads). Obviously, these are mostly just my opinions but it's annoying to have them belittled as the woes of an ex-NS1 player when they are just woes at sub-par solutions to often exaggerated problems. I hope that, somehow, these are not all fundamental problems and they will get ironed out with time but I'm not so sure they aren't and I'm not so sure they'll get ironed out even if they aren't. At the end of the day, I've been around long enough to have seen a million lessons discarded, ignored and forgotten and it's a bit depressing to watch.
I'm pretty sure almost every dev that's posted in the forums has said exactly that at one point?
That's not convincing. Same aliens, same marines, same backstory, most of the same skills, most of the same rulesets. The only things that appear to have changed are exactly features that Charlie said he wanted in NS1 but couldn't make and various grievances with NS1.
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What we ended up with was attrocious server performance, slow clumsy movement(quake/goldsrc/source tended to overcompensate and had snappy, butter-smooth movement), poor reg, a dubious skill-based movement system for the skulk which has no tradeoffs(bunnyhopping made you very predictable) and significantly adds to reg issues, clumsy and weak leap, a removal of much of the asymetry which made NS interesting, creep/power node mechanic that prevents interesting structure placement(e.g. hiding upgrades, sneaky PGs) and emphasizes player versus structure, a metric ton of vision obstructing nonsense(the most offensive being flashlights, jetpacks, bullet impacts and other effects which are not intended to obstruct view), a gorge that feels tacked on(having to invent reasons to keep it in the game now that it has lost it's primary purpose), a massive reduction in the space of possible strategies(there is no trade-off between weapons and upgrades/structures, you cannot trade off between pres and tres), most rounds feel very samey, an attrocious audio system where everything sounds tinny and echoey and makes it difficult or impossible to hear where sounds are coming from unless in direct line of sight, endgame performance that is unplayable on anything but an overclocked core i5.
As far as religious ns1 fans' desires: doesn't ns2: classic satiate this? If not you and your friends who don't play ns2, expecting ns1, should make a mod.
I don't have time for a second job. I'll just keep playing NS1.
A lot of it falls on marines being afraid to do anything. I got called a noob for researching mines instantly and telling 3 guys to pressure the hive constantly. Oh well, I recycled and left.
Really you recycled, killing everyone elses game and left because someone called you a noob?
Wow...way to react to someone questioning your thinking.
Yet people argue win loss ratios are useful, I say how can we use them when we have people who think its acceptable to end everyones game by throwing a wobbly. Then openly admits so in public as he does not believe its immature behavior thats not socially acceptable.
Well I think it says a lot about the game that it is significantly more fun losing on marines than it is winning on aliens.
Winning on aliens would be more fun if it wasn't so expected. I think it has a lot to do with balance. As a marine every moment is hard-fought even with a considerable lead. As an alien I can often look at the minimap five minutes in and say "yep, we've won." On the alien team it feels like I'm playing by the books, on the marine team you're always fighting just to keep your head above water.
Outside of the obvious 60/40 balance issue, I think it's just far too difficult for pub marines to apply pressure. As a result aliens rarely feel pressured which makes for unexciting gameplay.
Contrary to popular belief, many diehard NS1 fans actually find fault in changes, not just because they are changes, but because they are crap ones. I echo Soylent's frustration that most of the features designed to cure flaws in NS1 have failed or just created worse problems. Features have been shoehorned in because they sound awesome and the focus on immersion has cluttered the few features that are good.
1. The Khammander is still really boring, misplaced and unfinished.
2. The new Pres/Tres economy hasn't made the game easier to scale at all.
3. Letting everyone take lifeforms/weapons has diluted comm control of strategy.
4. Equipment and lifeforms are everywhere so we get a kind of combat/classic mishmash.
5. RFD is a horrendous and strange replacement for RFK.
6. Wallhopping is no way near mature enough to replace bunnyhopping.
7. The powergrid/infestation are unnecessary and restrictive.
8. The gorge has been relegated and is no longer the essential cog it once was.
9. To make the game accessible, they've thrown in annoying visual clutter which is the cheap way out.
10. To make the game accessible, they've created zero-skill end-game units.
11. Turtles are just as big a problem as ever.
It took me two seconds to right that list and I could go on (as I have done in many other threads). Obviously, these are mostly just my opinions but it's annoying to have them belittled as the woes of an ex-NS1 player when they are just woes at sub-par solutions to often exaggerated problems. I hope that, somehow, these are not all fundamental problems and they will get ironed out with time but I'm not so sure they aren't and I'm not so sure they'll get ironed out even if they aren't. At the end of the day, I've been around long enough to have seen a million lessons discarded, ignored and forgotten and it's a bit depressing to watch.
I am a die hard NS1 fan, and was a lil grumpy inside when I saw the changes.
But i DID remember even before alpha that they stated that NS1 was the encounter, NS2 the war. We all knew back then it would be different. Anyone who expected a sort of remake forgot what was said back then.
1. Khams can be boring perhaps, but that usually depends on your team aswell.
Shades (if your team can handle them) open up a lot of fun stuff to practise in, and is a favorite of mine to break turtles. Just mess around a bit with whips and shifts if you are swmming in res and bored.
But a kham in most cases is a source of info in my eyes. Khams have plenty time to inform the team of anything, I can keep myself busy just fine.
2. pres/tres.. getting used to is not the same as easier scaling. I am more conviced teams need to get used to it in pugs compared to ns1.
3. disagree. Only thing happening now is that in a pug people take what they are better at. Motivation as a factor can work wonders.
I upgrade JP and exo for the heck of it. But I do give the order that only a max of 3 can go exo, asuming that those 3 represent 33%. And what happens?
Max 3 exo's, every time! I dont need to ask who, I dont need to worry. just say it, explain why > done.
In the old days you could force something on someone, when they prefered another option and I find it right now working for the better in pugs. But what if they dont listen? You notice that long before you have JP.
4. performance > bigger maps? I do agree on this point that its everywhere, hoping for some bigger maps.
5. RFD is bad yes, but RFK wasnt much better. A even bigger skillgap inbetween experienced & newb players.
6. before I see half the pugs out there gain speeds as skulk, which I see archea gaining, i will not agree on this point.
I could bunnyhop within a day. I can still not even get close to the speed the top players dish out.
7. partially agree. They are restrictive, but it sets a certain mood that the devs aparently want.
8. Agreed, I want to build more gorge stuff.
9. disagree, I like the shinies and do not feel it is annoying or clutter.
10. How many topics & pages do we have of how exo's should be used, and how pugs use them? If it takes 0 skill, people would not use them wrong.
11. Turtles are easy to break in a gazilion reasons. If they 'cant' the aliens need to stop a second and think.
I think most of the list posted there are things that can be addressed/resolved, the obvious two standouts being the resource system (pres/tres is here to stay I think), and powernodes and infestation. Now I think that there are positives to Pres/Tres (makes guns/lifeforms a little less important, less stressful) but obviously we are currently in a place where it’s just promoting massing. There are things that can be done to fix that, and I would say that’s one of the key points to be fixed going forward. As for improving powernodes/infestation, there are some decent ideas that may be able to reinforce the mechanics into beneficial parts of gameplay, but those are most likely things that will remain somewhat largely unchanged (at least initially?).
And to anyone saying that 'NS1' vets just want NS1 with new graphics; that is entirely not true, and so far from the truth that it's insulting. I am tired of again and again, seeing the same excuse raised for valid criticism of the game. What I want, and most others here, is for a game that has the strategic depth, skill progression and intense team play that at least comes close to the original. If the mechanics or abilities/technologies are different to accomplish that, I highly doubt that anyone would be upset. I hope that things continue to improve with regards to a lot of the mechanics and abilities, and I think we have all seen how things have worked previously, but I at least feel slightly optimistic about what’s coming (eventually )
I'm pretty sure almost every dev that's posted in the forums has said exactly that at one point?
As far as religious ns1 fans' desires: doesn't ns2: classic satiate this? If not you and your friends who don't play ns2, expecting ns1, should make a mod.
It's either a remake or completely unoriginal and uninspired. The marine and alien abilities are copy pasted. Don't get me wrong, I love this series to death, but I do not pretend it is something it isn't
As for "NS1 was the encounter, NS2 the war"; what exactly gives you that impression? IIRC, by the time this was posted UWE planned to have vehicles and I'm not sure if Spark was even planned back then. And before you label exos as vehicles, they are the heavy armor replacement. It was more of a marketing statement, the only games that give me this feeling are games like the Battlefield or the Operation Flashpoint/Armed Assault and Planetside series. Almost every other shooter I know of has more of an arena like gameplay.
As for "NS1 was the encounter, NS2 the war"; what exactly gives you that impression? IIRC, by the time this was posted UWE planned to have vehicles and I'm not sure if Spark was even planned back then. And before you label exos as vehicles, they are the heavy armor replacement. It was more of a marketing statement, the only games that give me this feeling are games like the Battlefield or the Operation Flashpoint/Armed Assault and Planetside series. Almost every other shooter I know of has more of an arena like gameplay.
read it somewhere on the forums or site.. long long long long ago.
The exact wording is probably wrong, but it was something around that if I remember ok.
I am a die hard NS1 fan, and was a lil grumpy inside when I saw the changes.
But i DID remember even before alpha that they stated that NS1 was the encounter, NS2 the war. We all knew back then it would be different. Anyone who expected a sort of remake forgot what was said back then.
Well, it's time for a reality check. Just go through all Features of NS2 and ask for each one:
a) Was is in NS1? (example: Lifeforms, Weapons)
If Yes: In which way does the NS2 incarnartion improve upon the NS1 version?
b) Was there a equivalent mechanic/feature in NS1? (Example: Alien Khamm in NS2, Gorges in NS1)
If Yes: In what way did the NS2 mechanic improve this specific aspect of gameplay?
If both a) and b) are negatives (Power Nodes, Cysts, Flamer)
c) Would gameplay suffer if this feature would be cut out of the game?
Sadly there are not even many things in the c) category and not all of them are a good addition.
NS2 is already dead in Brazil. Just one 16 player server full after 7-8pm and empty the whole day.
That's saying something, I used to play NS1 like mad and there was at LEAST 4 full servers. Tons of games have a uber active population here, like BF3, CS, Dota, etc.
I was at a server just now and 4 times the game ended before 5 minutes. God, I'm wasting my time with this, 4-6 bad games for 1 good game (good game doesn't have to be a win). 1 hour of not having fun for 30 or less minutes of fun, not really a good investment.
I hope UWE read this thread and rethink a few stuff.
NS2 is already dead in Brazil. Just one 16 player server full after 7-8pm and empty the whole day.
That's saying something, I used to play NS1 like mad and there was at LEAST 4 full servers. Tons of games have a uber active population here, like BF3, CS, Dota, etc.
I was at a server just now and 4 times the game ended before 5 minutes. God, I'm wasting my time with this, 4-6 bad games for 1 good game (good game doesn't have to be a win). 1 hour of not having fun for 30 or less minutes of fun, not really a good investment.
I hope UWE read this thread and rethink a few stuff.
Those are quick games. Did it end the same way each time? An alien win (via a zerg rush at main base of course) or did marines egg lock the aliens right away (never seen that happen in 250 hours of play but who knows).
NS2 is already dead in Brazil. Just one 16 player server full after 7-8pm and empty the whole day.
That's saying something, I used to play NS1 like mad and there was at LEAST 4 full servers. Tons of games have a uber active population here, like BF3, CS, Dota, etc.
I was at a server just now and 4 times the game ended before 5 minutes. God, I'm wasting my time with this, 4-6 bad games for 1 good game (good game doesn't have to be a win). 1 hour of not having fun for 30 or less minutes of fun, not really a good investment.
I hope UWE read this thread and rethink a few stuff.
Those are quick games. Did it end the same way each time? An alien win (via a zerg rush at main base of course) or did marines egg lock the aliens right away (never seen that happen in 250 hours of play but who knows).
There's a guy that carries whatever team he's on, so if he's online and on the other team, you are dead most of the time.
Besides that, game ended so fast because of a few different reasons:
1) Egg lock (yes, even on 16p servers, because most of the time this uber player manages to get to the hive and destroy eggs, or aliens simply die too much);
2) Gorges unable to lock down choke points properly (bad players or simply superior players on enemy team);
3) Marines that don't miss (not sure if matchmaking would solve anything, but it might);
4) Enemy team playing properly and not letting you expand, leaving you with 1-2 RT's the whole game, and thus people conceding right away (the annoying thing is that a lot of games end this way. I'll start playing on US servers because my region sucks nuts);
5) Aliens unable to do shit vs good jetpack marines;
6) Marines unable to do shit vs spore lerk + gorge + onos;
All I hear is whinge whinge whinge. People seem to think NS2 is just for people who played NS1. I haven't played NS1 in a very long time; and walking into NS2 I don't have any problems with the way things are structured. There are some tweaks that would be great to see but they aren't so bad as to justify the vehemence at which people are complaining.
As a team game there are potential counters to anything given the right mix, skill level, and available resources. The "this is a killing move" rubbish people go on about would mean that competitive matches would be completely boring. And watching them I don't find them boring at all.
Comments
I played NS1 as well, and it was good, NS2, is not, NS1. The game IS different, if you don't like what it IS then sorry, this game doesn't need you. The game isn't going to change to suit your needs. It's the dev's vision.
Read above, tldr; this game is it's own game. This is the way it is, if something is truly out of balance, the devs will change it because they want to.
It has been mentioned a few times that the NS community was what allowed NS2 to take form and (hopefully) turn into a financial success. If the very same community has issues with the game and people like you succeed in driving everyone away who is critical, this community will not be around much longer.
EDIT: I also never said anyone wasn't welcome, just that they weren't needed.
That isn't what he said at all though.
Yes, I'm sure UWE are eternally grateful to many of the NS1 players who bought into the alpha (myself included), before anything had really taken shape. And yes, there are a number of NS1 players who bought into the alpha that aren't entirely happy with all the new directions the game was taken in (myself included).
But the very thing that spawned this amazing and awesome franchise of gaming was the developers independent thinking and creativity. I don't know about you, but when I support a game, I don't support the game itself, and everything inside the game, while forgetting everything it took to make the game the way it is. Instead, I support the creators vision.
People shouldn't now turn around and complain because they weren't supporting UWE and their gaming vision, but rather they were supporting the creation of the new NS1 which is just the old NS1 but with more bells and whistles. Then UWE are essentially working for us and we are merely giving them their paycheck, and I'm sure that isn't what they wanted.
Winning on aliens would be more fun if it wasn't so expected. I think it has a lot to do with balance. As a marine every moment is hard-fought even with a considerable lead. As an alien I can often look at the minimap five minutes in and say "yep, we've won." On the alien team it feels like I'm playing by the books, on the marine team you're always fighting just to keep your head above water.
Outside of the obvious 60/40 balance issue, I think it's just far too difficult for pub marines to apply pressure. As a result aliens rarely feel pressured which makes for unexciting gameplay.
I think a big issue is that the new players really don't know how useful the map is. half the time i have the map up so i can see where the action is or where we're being attacked. using the map needs to be stated to new ns players
but it really does. =p
Except they have gorge tunnels now...
I think the problem many people have with NS2 is that it really is not very different from NS1. So what really is new about NS2?
- Alien khamm
- Flamer
- Power/Cyst
- less Alien Upgrades
- Mobile Sieges
- New HA system
And the problem that arises is that at least half of these new things really mess with the balance of the game.
So most people dont complain about NS2 being different from NS1, they complain about NS2 doing things wrong that were done right in NS1.
Just to get this straight: I also like NS2(alot).
But the first time I played it (I think build 190 or sth) I was kinda disappointed. I thought this was exactly like NS1 with-apart from khamm - a few minor changes and ALOT of features missing after about 5 years of development.
By now there are many new features but to me this does not feel that much different to NS1. Its more like a NS1 with better graphics but some doubtable new gameplay mechanics. So thats why people keep comparing both games.
But NS2 is not a new game. It is a botched attempt to remake NS1. Charlie wanted to fix some of the flaws in NS1, but in nearly every case the cure is has been shown to be far worse than the disease. Charlie wanted some features he could not make in NS1; nearly every one of these sacrifice gameplay on the altar of immersion.
I'm pretty sure almost every dev that's posted in the forums has said exactly that at one point?
As far as religious ns1 fans' desires: doesn't ns2: classic satiate this? If not you and your friends who don't play ns2, expecting ns1, should make a mod.
The Khammander is still really boring, misplaced and unfinished.
The new Pres/Tres economy hasn't made the game easier to scale at all.
Letting everyone take lifeforms/weapons has diluted comm control of strategy.
Equipment and lifeforms are everywhere so we get a kind of combat/classic mishmash.
RFD is a horrendous and strange replacement for RFK.
Wallhopping is no way near mature enough to replace bunnyhopping.
The powergrid/infestation are unnecessary and restrictive.
The gorge has been relegated and is no longer the essential cog it once was.
To make the game accessible, they've thrown in annoying visual clutter which is the cheap way out.
To make the game accessible, they've created zero-skill end-game units.
Turtles are just as big a problem as ever.
It took me two seconds to right that list and I could go on (as I have done in many other threads). Obviously, these are mostly just my opinions but it's annoying to have them belittled as the woes of an ex-NS1 player when they are just woes at sub-par solutions to often exaggerated problems. I hope that, somehow, these are not all fundamental problems and they will get ironed out with time but I'm not so sure they aren't and I'm not so sure they'll get ironed out even if they aren't. At the end of the day, I've been around long enough to have seen a million lessons discarded, ignored and forgotten and it's a bit depressing to watch.
yea but I sorta assume gorges wont have this ability from the get-go.. could be wrong.
That's not convincing. Same aliens, same marines, same backstory, most of the same skills, most of the same rulesets. The only things that appear to have changed are exactly features that Charlie said he wanted in NS1 but couldn't make and various grievances with NS1.
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What we ended up with was attrocious server performance, slow clumsy movement(quake/goldsrc/source tended to overcompensate and had snappy, butter-smooth movement), poor reg, a dubious skill-based movement system for the skulk which has no tradeoffs(bunnyhopping made you very predictable) and significantly adds to reg issues, clumsy and weak leap, a removal of much of the asymetry which made NS interesting, creep/power node mechanic that prevents interesting structure placement(e.g. hiding upgrades, sneaky PGs) and emphasizes player versus structure, a metric ton of vision obstructing nonsense(the most offensive being flashlights, jetpacks, bullet impacts and other effects which are not intended to obstruct view), a gorge that feels tacked on(having to invent reasons to keep it in the game now that it has lost it's primary purpose), a massive reduction in the space of possible strategies(there is no trade-off between weapons and upgrades/structures, you cannot trade off between pres and tres), most rounds feel very samey, an attrocious audio system where everything sounds tinny and echoey and makes it difficult or impossible to hear where sounds are coming from unless in direct line of sight, endgame performance that is unplayable on anything but an overclocked core i5.
I don't have time for a second job. I'll just keep playing NS1.
Wow...way to react to someone questioning your thinking.
Yet people argue win loss ratios are useful, I say how can we use them when we have people who think its acceptable to end everyones game by throwing a wobbly. Then openly admits so in public as he does not believe its immature behavior thats not socially acceptable.
+1 agree
I am a die hard NS1 fan, and was a lil grumpy inside when I saw the changes.
But i DID remember even before alpha that they stated that NS1 was the encounter, NS2 the war. We all knew back then it would be different. Anyone who expected a sort of remake forgot what was said back then.
1. Khams can be boring perhaps, but that usually depends on your team aswell.
Shades (if your team can handle them) open up a lot of fun stuff to practise in, and is a favorite of mine to break turtles. Just mess around a bit with whips and shifts if you are swmming in res and bored.
But a kham in most cases is a source of info in my eyes. Khams have plenty time to inform the team of anything, I can keep myself busy just fine.
2. pres/tres.. getting used to is not the same as easier scaling. I am more conviced teams need to get used to it in pugs compared to ns1.
3. disagree. Only thing happening now is that in a pug people take what they are better at. Motivation as a factor can work wonders.
I upgrade JP and exo for the heck of it. But I do give the order that only a max of 3 can go exo, asuming that those 3 represent 33%. And what happens?
Max 3 exo's, every time! I dont need to ask who, I dont need to worry. just say it, explain why > done.
In the old days you could force something on someone, when they prefered another option and I find it right now working for the better in pugs. But what if they dont listen? You notice that long before you have JP.
4. performance > bigger maps? I do agree on this point that its everywhere, hoping for some bigger maps.
5. RFD is bad yes, but RFK wasnt much better. A even bigger skillgap inbetween experienced & newb players.
6. before I see half the pugs out there gain speeds as skulk, which I see archea gaining, i will not agree on this point.
I could bunnyhop within a day. I can still not even get close to the speed the top players dish out.
7. partially agree. They are restrictive, but it sets a certain mood that the devs aparently want.
8. Agreed, I want to build more gorge stuff.
9. disagree, I like the shinies and do not feel it is annoying or clutter.
10. How many topics & pages do we have of how exo's should be used, and how pugs use them? If it takes 0 skill, people would not use them wrong.
11. Turtles are easy to break in a gazilion reasons. If they 'cant' the aliens need to stop a second and think.
And to anyone saying that 'NS1' vets just want NS1 with new graphics; that is entirely not true, and so far from the truth that it's insulting. I am tired of again and again, seeing the same excuse raised for valid criticism of the game. What I want, and most others here, is for a game that has the strategic depth, skill progression and intense team play that at least comes close to the original. If the mechanics or abilities/technologies are different to accomplish that, I highly doubt that anyone would be upset. I hope that things continue to improve with regards to a lot of the mechanics and abilities, and I think we have all seen how things have worked previously, but I at least feel slightly optimistic about what’s coming (eventually
wut
It's either a remake or completely unoriginal and uninspired. The marine and alien abilities are copy pasted. Don't get me wrong, I love this series to death, but I do not pretend it is something it isn't
read it somewhere on the forums or site.. long long long long ago.
The exact wording is probably wrong, but it was something around that if I remember ok.
Well, it's time for a reality check. Just go through all Features of NS2 and ask for each one:
a) Was is in NS1? (example: Lifeforms, Weapons)
If Yes: In which way does the NS2 incarnartion improve upon the NS1 version?
b) Was there a equivalent mechanic/feature in NS1? (Example: Alien Khamm in NS2, Gorges in NS1)
If Yes: In what way did the NS2 mechanic improve this specific aspect of gameplay?
If both a) and b) are negatives (Power Nodes, Cysts, Flamer)
c) Would gameplay suffer if this feature would be cut out of the game?
Sadly there are not even many things in the c) category and not all of them are a good addition.
That's saying something, I used to play NS1 like mad and there was at LEAST 4 full servers. Tons of games have a uber active population here, like BF3, CS, Dota, etc.
I was at a server just now and 4 times the game ended before 5 minutes. God, I'm wasting my time with this, 4-6 bad games for 1 good game (good game doesn't have to be a win). 1 hour of not having fun for 30 or less minutes of fun, not really a good investment.
I hope UWE read this thread and rethink a few stuff.
Those are quick games. Did it end the same way each time? An alien win (via a zerg rush at main base of course) or did marines egg lock the aliens right away (never seen that happen in 250 hours of play but who knows).
There's a guy that carries whatever team he's on, so if he's online and on the other team, you are dead most of the time.
Besides that, game ended so fast because of a few different reasons:
1) Egg lock (yes, even on 16p servers, because most of the time this uber player manages to get to the hive and destroy eggs, or aliens simply die too much);
2) Gorges unable to lock down choke points properly (bad players or simply superior players on enemy team);
3) Marines that don't miss (not sure if matchmaking would solve anything, but it might);
4) Enemy team playing properly and not letting you expand, leaving you with 1-2 RT's the whole game, and thus people conceding right away (the annoying thing is that a lot of games end this way. I'll start playing on US servers because my region sucks nuts);
5) Aliens unable to do shit vs good jetpack marines;
6) Marines unable to do shit vs spore lerk + gorge + onos;
As a team game there are potential counters to anything given the right mix, skill level, and available resources. The "this is a killing move" rubbish people go on about would mean that competitive matches would be completely boring. And watching them I don't find them boring at all.
Get over it or just stop playing.