The power pack was in the game at one point during the beta but was removed. Just an FYI. (That was the sentry battery model's original purpose)
Huh, interesting.
Do you remember why it was removed from the game in the end? I am pretty curious about this.
It wasn't clearly stated why it was removed. One possibility is the need for a model for the sentry-battery mechanic. (free sentry placing was bad) Another possibility was the increase in turtling-capabilities it created, when coupled to the IPs in the main base. It was removed and reintroduced at least two times in the beta.
The power pack was in the game at one point during the beta but was removed. Just an FYI. (That was the sentry battery model's original purpose)
Huh, interesting.
Do you remember why it was removed from the game in the end? I am pretty curious about this.
It wasn't clearly stated why it was removed. One possibility is the need for a model for the sentry-battery mechanic. (free sentry placing was bad) Another possibility was the increase in turtling-capabilities it created, when coupled to the IPs in the main base. It was removed and reintroduced at least two times in the beta.
My guess is that it was a fire and forget mechanic. While it did offer neat possibilities like ninja phases etc, a lot of times it boiled down to OH I HAVE EXTRA RES *build 100 batteries* (note: this is clearly an exaggeration). Then you had redundant power and didn't even have to think about it which kind of nullified the whole power grid concept.
I'd like to see the mechanic come back in a commander usable much like medpacks or nanoshield. You can target an unpowered structure and cause a "power surge" which allows it to be turned on for 10ish seconds for the cost of res. The ability can be restricted if need be to only be castable if there is a powered CC. I think this would cause less issues than the battery, still allow ninja tactics, and also retain being a viable option for the mechanic without being a set it and forget it kind of thing.
There was a time when battery backs was around and people can use it to power up buildings.
At that particular time the actual powernodes themselves were sometimes placed in really bad spots, so much that the old flight control, people used to just use a battery pack and didn't even bother with the power node
(At the time, crevis didn't even have a power node, so you needed to use a battery pack to actually build that res! lol)
Unfortunately however, it was turtling heaven back then. The sentries were a lot stronger than they are now, there was no limit, you can build however many you have res for, and aliens had no bilebomb or onos to break seiges.
So it was decided then that we needed the 'power node weakness' in the game to actually help break turtles.. and they fixed up all the power node positions and removed the battery pack from the game...
While it did offer neat possibilities like ninja phases etc, a lot of times it boiled down to OH I HAVE EXTRA RES *build 100 batteries* (note: this is clearly an exaggeration). Then you had redundant power and didn't even have to think about it which kind of nullified the whole power grid concept.
If they wanted to fix it though they could have done what they did with crags and put a limit on some many within a given area.
Frankly, I'm up for anything that removes the silly "I win" buttons, and forces alien teams to actually work for a win.
But this quote above alone makes me doubt your ability to rebalance the game effectively - nobody can foresee all the consequences and you'd best acknowledge that.
There weren't any complicated changes with multioptional consequences. Of course, some might slip away, but nothing critical at current depth of moding.
ITT: Bad player with too much time on his hands making balance changes that he isn't qualified to make. People arguing about the principle of what he's doing when in reality this will go nowhere so it's moot.
But this quote above alone makes me doubt your ability to rebalance the game effectively - nobody can foresee all the consequences and you'd best acknowledge that.
There weren't any complicated changes with multioptional consequences. Of course, some might slip away, but nothing critical at current depth of moding.
ITT: Bad player with too much time on his hands making balance changes that he isn't qualified to make. People arguing about the principle of what he's doing when in reality this will go nowhere so it's moot.
Now that's the spirit! Here, take some cookies, have a seat.
Very cool that you took the time to do this BigTracer! While I don't think this particular set of changes will results in more balanced play,I will be monitoring this thread for ideas and results . While I don't think this particular set of changes will results in more balanced play, creating mods like this is a wonderful way to contribute to the NS2 community and will help the long term balance effort.
Remember, Flayra also often posts 'Balance Mod' on Steam Workshop and you guys should check that out too!
While it did offer neat possibilities like ninja phases etc, a lot of times it boiled down to OH I HAVE EXTRA RES *build 100 batteries* (note: this is clearly an exaggeration). Then you had redundant power and didn't even have to think about it which kind of nullified the whole power grid concept.
If they wanted to fix it though they could have done what they did with crags and put a limit on some many within a given area.
Frankly, I'm up for anything that removes the silly "I win" buttons, and forces alien teams to actually work for a win.
The bigger reason it was removed if I could emphasize one of my previous contentions would be that it was a permanent circumvention of the power node and as such "trivialized" the mechanic (a mechanic I feel needs to be removed or completely overhauled but that's another story for another day). Also then there were people like TotalBiscuit dropping them every which way thinking they were the primary way to power structures due to their role being partially ambiguous.
They solved a problem of the power grid being too limiting but they weren't the right solution and were more of a band-aid to a mechanic that needs revisions.
Here is my 2 cents, I played NS1 back in the day.. and I dont know if me saying anything will help balance this game.. But I hope they take it into Consideration. For the most part, the gorge is the most unbalanced part of the game.. 1 person having so much mobility, offense and defense at once breaks the game.. But anyway, here are my ideas.
::Whip vs Arc::
Whip-Ranged Projectile, Upclose Attack, Has the Ability to throw grenades back
Arc - Moves, Shoots through Walls
Solution, Arcs have a built in Machine gun on the Side
::Gorge vs Standard Marine::
Gorge - Hydra, Bile Bomb, Heal, Slide, Goop Wall, + Any Evolution traight they want (and now Tunnels)
Marine - 1 Weapon, Limited Stamina, Welder , Mine
Solution - Give Marines the Chose to buy Mini Turrets from the Armory, aswell as mini holographic defense (for a good reference, look at U2 Multiplayer) Reduce Price of Mines 5 res a single mine.
::Hydra vs Turret::
Hydra - Req's No power, 360 Degree
Turret - Req's Battery, Short Cone Degree.. Can be quickly taken out by Skulk
Solution - Remove Marine Turret, Make Turrets part of the Map (on the wall).. and available to marines to build with Welders (aswell as bring back the ability to weld doors,etc)
::Marine Buildings vs Alien Buildings::
Alien Building - Builds itself, and Regens
Marine Building - Req Marines to Build and Repair
Solution - Give Marines some sort of upgrade for Units for Defense ( See NS1 for Reference)
Solution - Make 2 Genders for Marines
1 - Male, Stronger but Slower
2- Female , Cloaked- Faster but Weaker
::Changes for Both Sides::
Aliens - Evolve only near a hive
Marines - Rework Battery as Backup Power Device for IPS and Comchair.. Main Battery for Defense in Base (Wall Turrets)
UWE.. please read my ideas, I beleive they will bring the balance everyone wants without making both sides completely the same.
creating mods like this is a wonderful way to contribute to the NS2 community and will help the long term balance effort.
This is exactly what I was saying in this post upthread. It gets people thinking. It gets people saying 'what if'. It also explores a different path that UWE isn't exploring.
Hey, either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then nothing ventured - nothing gained.
It's not like anyone is forced to play on a server with this mod. As is the case with 24 player servers (which also markedly alter balance just by nature of the higher player count) if something is fun, people will play it. People will vote with their disconnect buttons.
I think it would be more useful for the community to try riskier changes, rather than little tweaks. UWE has a lot more data coming in to help with small tweaks, and they have to be very conservative with the main branch of the game.
The community has a lot of creativity, passion, man hours, and little consequences for failure. Let them try some bigger, more sweeping changes, to see how they play out.
Examples:
A mod which tests game play with out power nodes.
A mode which tests game play lifeform upgrades unchained from hives
etc...
The reason why is this is a bad idea, and why any other mods like this have either failed or not been played, is because of a couple reasons. You will never get everyone to agree on the changes, plain and simple. These changes will only ever be run on a minority if any servers, and only serve to divide a playerbase that is already hugely split. Other issues range from people joining the server running this, having no idea its running or what is changed, and quickly becoming frustrated because 'something' is different, and disconnecting, to people flat out quitting the game because they percieve the changes to be part of vanilla. Balance mods are really an area that are best avoided, take that from someone who has made several iterations of said mods, some of which were quite successful for a time. In the end, your playing with a fire that you have no control over.
This. Dragon has quite a bit of experience with balance mods and NS2 modding in general, so I wouldn't ignore his advice.
Instead of trying to 'fix' the current NS2, it be better if you tried to make a variation of the existing game (similar to what Combat and Marine v Marine do). It would be better received and allow you much more creativity and flexibilty fitting the game to your designs.
Do you remember why it was removed from the game in the end? I am pretty curious about this.
Because it was mostly used for turtling. Marine comms would slap powerpacks next to IPs/sentries such that if the power went down, they'd still work. Unfortunately, it led to many situations in which aliens had full map control, but were unable to finish the game because killing the powernode wouldn't disable all of the structures.
It was also no longer necessary since every location (on the official maps at least) were powered by a powernode.
Uhh, guys, I couldn't bruteforce 2 last features I wanted to add. So I'm getting lua articles and will finish Stage 1 tomorrow. I'll also clearly explain full logic and you will see the balance.
Server is already rented and running. So I suggest we start playing it tomorrow.
The reason why is this is a bad idea, and why any other mods like this have either failed or not been played, is because of a couple reasons. You will never get everyone to agree on the changes, plain and simple.
Really? Since when do people agree on the balance changes that UWE makes? Never. Heck in the thread taking about *proposed* balanced changes it's like a freaking bloodbath in there. Agreement over balance is not only improbable, it's impossible.
These changes will only ever be run on a minority if any servers, and only serve to divide a playerbase that is already hugely split.
Again, you fail to consider that is how things are NOW. There are all kinds of mods out there that do different things based on what server mods they are running. That's why they are a different colour and also why you can filter out those servers if you want a more 'consistent' experience.
Simple example... I was on Tactical Gamer and our marine team conceded. When it happened there was a text announcement saying we were voting on it, and I thought "hey, that's cool." After the vote succeeded, the game was still going. We all looked around for a second, and then in the text chat the server announced that the aliens had 120 to kill the comm chair or the marines win by default. I shrugged and said to myself, "OK, we get a last stand." Except for one problem. We didn't.
The mod made the aliens invulnerable, so basically they were free to kill us like target dummies. Then they took out the comm chair and won. That had to be one of the worst ways to mod the concede vote, and I won't be playing on there again with that mod on. HOWEVER, their server, their rules. If they want to do that, they are totally within their right to do so, just as I have my choice to play elsewhere.
We have combat modes, marine versus marine modes, amongst other changes. There is no doomsday playerbase split.
Other issues range from people joining the server running this, having no idea its running or what is changed, and quickly becoming frustrated because 'something' is different, and disconnecting, to people flat out quitting the game because they percieve the changes to be part of vanilla.
Wrong again. All modded servers are yellow and can be filtered. That includes this balance mod. He has also changed the game name to 'Balance', so you can see at a glance that it is different from other servers. No one can say they don't know they are playing on a modded server.
Mods are never a 'bad idea'. Mods are either played or they are not played. If people like them, they play them, if they don't they won't.
Very cool that you took the time to do this BigTracer! While I don't think this particular set of changes will results in more balanced play,I will be monitoring this thread for ideas and results . While I don't think this particular set of changes will results in more balanced play, creating mods like this is a wonderful way to contribute to the NS2 community and will help the long term balance effort.
Remember, Flayra also often posts 'Balance Mod' on Steam Workshop and you guys should check that out too!
Thanks, Hugh! But I'll make it more than just a dummy for future official changes.
This. Dragon has quite a bit of experience with balance mods and NS2 modding in general, so I wouldn't ignore his advice.
I would, cause he advices to give up on my idea. I'm interested to do exaclty what I'm doing now. Also, I can afford to make risky changes like removing alien p. res.
Huh, interesting.
Because it was mostly used for turtling. Marine comms would slap powerpacks next to IPs/sentries such that if the power went down, they'd still work. Unfortunately, it led to many situations in which aliens had full map control, but were unable to finish the game because killing the powernode wouldn't disable all of the structures.
It was also no longer necessary since every location (on the official maps at least) were powered by a powernode.
But situation is completely different now. Marines do need at least some protection against concentrated node assault at main base. Unless you like to block it with armories.
The community is biased towards there own pet ideas. I'm not sure what you were expecting. You presented a wall of ideas with little direction on what they were suppose to accomplish overall. Were they suggestions for bigtracer, or did you want community and dev discussion solely on the multitude of ideas you brought up in a thread about someone else's mod?
The community is biased towards there own pet ideas. I'm not sure what you were expecting. You presented a wall of ideas with little direction on what they were suppose to accomplish overall. Were they suggestions for bigtracer, or did you want community and dev discussion solely on the multitude of ideas you brought up in a thread about someone else's mod?
I'm only gonna say this, if anyone has ever played a strategy game.. lets just starcraft, not one race.. only has Invisibility or speed.
Giving one side a multitude of shit, and handicapping the other side leads to massive problems with balance.. or did you not take the time read all the equal but broken structures for the alien side which shows the marines equivalent is lacking badly.
The community is biased towards there own pet ideas. I'm not sure what you were expecting. You presented a wall of ideas with little direction on what they were suppose to accomplish overall. Were they suggestions for bigtracer, or did you want community and dev discussion solely on the multitude of ideas you brought up in a thread about someone else's mod?
I'm only gonna say this, if anyone has ever played a strategy game.. lets just starcraft, not one race.. only has Invisibility or speed.
Giving one side a multitude of shit, and handicapping the other side leads to massive problems with balance.. or did you not take the time read all the equal but broken structures for the alien side which shows the marines equivalent is lacking badly.
Let me guess, you like aliens.
Man, you compared those things, but on practice they don't bumb in this equations. No one denies you had several good points and game's balance could be better. But what should we do about it?
You fail to realize the difference between a gameplay modification, and a modification that seeks to 'balance' the vanilla game. I have made many mods before, and have seen constant examples of people joining a server (listed in yellow mind you), running a mod that has even modified the readyroom join text indicating that its modded, and several things are changed from vanilla, which displays the instant you join the readyroom in big text center screen. People still fail to realize that the server is modded, and get confused and often frustrated. Look at the review done by GameSpot? (I cant remember the site). They reviewed the combat mod as the vanilla game, not even realizing it was modded (Why does our alien commander suck?).
Im not sure what your trying to indicate by agreeing with me about players never agreeing over balance changes, but pointing out that UWE has the same issue. Of course they do, however being as this is their game, they are free to make the changes they want, to resolve balance in the ways they want. The point behind that issue is that managing to find and maintain a playerbase on a mod that is strickly 'balance' is near impossible, as most players will never agree with enough of the changes to stick around.
Mods like what your describing on TG are also somewhat different, as generally they only impact certain situations within the game, or (atleast what I am suspecting) is that the inability to damage the other team in that situation was more a bug then a feature. Mods in general are not a bad idea at all, but making a mod which changes little from the vanilla game generally has little player draw, especially when you label it as a 'balance' mod.
I have made many balance mods that ranged from completely changing almost every aspect of the game, to ones that tried to stay within the current 'designs', all were generally popular for a time, but quickly became less and less popular over time, for many various reasons.
This is why this kind of behavior should be encouraged; having modders test out balance changes will more effectively playtest everything more quickly without having the devs dig themselves a deeper pit. As well as forseeing bad decisions, and are more likely to find ideas that work if some of the mods experiment.
You fail to realize the difference between a gameplay modification, and a modification that seeks to 'balance' the vanilla game. I have made many mods before, and have seen constant examples of people joining a server (listed in yellow mind you), running a mod that has even modified the readyroom join text indicating that its modded, and several things are changed from vanilla, which displays the instant you join the readyroom in big text center screen. People still fail to realize that the server is modded, and get confused and often frustrated. Look at the review done by GameSpot? (I cant remember the site). They reviewed the combat mod as the vanilla game, not even realizing it was modded (Why does our alien commander suck?).
Im not sure what your trying to indicate by agreeing with me about players never agreeing over balance changes, but pointing out that UWE has the same issue. Of course they do, however being as this is their game, they are free to make the changes they want, to resolve balance in the ways they want. The point behind that issue is that managing to find and maintain a playerbase on a mod that is strickly 'balance' is near impossible, as most players will never agree with enough of the changes to stick around.
Mods like what your describing on TG are also somewhat different, as generally they only impact certain situations within the game, or (atleast what I am suspecting) is that the inability to damage the other team in that situation was more a bug then a feature. Mods in general are not a bad idea at all, but making a mod which changes little from the vanilla game generally has little player draw, especially when you label it as a 'balance' mod.
I have made many balance mods that ranged from completely changing almost every aspect of the game, to ones that tried to stay within the current 'designs', all were generally popular for a time, but quickly became less and less popular over time, for many various reasons.
I'm sure there's a part of player base which is frustrated with current alien supremacy. And they would gladly play NS2 that is more balanced. And I make it. Simple as that.
So, please stop trying to stop me making it. I do it because I enjoy it. Neveretheless, thank you for your intentions, cause you're probably trying to save my time.
This is why this kind of behavior should be encouraged; having modders test out balance changes will more effectively playtest everything more quickly without having the devs dig themselves a deeper pit. As well as forseeing bad decisions, and are more likely to find ideas that work if some of the mods experiment.
Yet, I think, if offical solutions were more decisive - playerbase and profits could've been a lot higher. Leaving a game with a huge practical inbalance even for two weeks without patching is a wrong decision.
But situation is completely different now. Marines do need at least some protection against concentrated node assault at main base. Unless you like to block it with armories.
It really isn't. Powernode rushes have been an issue since the alpha and, believe it or not, we're actually a worse state through much of the beta. In fact, they were ridiculed by some players as alien 'instant win' buttons.
The powerpack was originally included to allow marines to build in rooms with no powernodes, but we're quickly adopted as a method for marines to turtle (i.e. they used to power all marine structures within a certain radius, so you would cluster IPs/armories/obs/sentries around them as insurance if the power went out). It certainly helped with the powernode rush issue, but led to terrible one-base marine turtling problems.
Instead of bringing back powerpacks or removing powernodes, I'd rather see something like structures still being functional for a limited amount of time after a powernode is destroyed (e.g. bringing back the structure energy, but using it only for powering structures when the powernode is destroyed).
The community is biased towards there own pet ideas. I'm not sure what you were expecting. You presented a wall of ideas with little direction on what they were suppose to accomplish overall. Were they suggestions for bigtracer, or did you want community and dev discussion solely on the multitude of ideas you brought up in a thread about someone else's mod?
I'm only gonna say this, if anyone has ever played a strategy game.. lets just starcraft, not one race.. only has Invisibility or speed.
Giving one side a multitude of shit, and handicapping the other side leads to massive problems with balance.. or did you not take the time read all the equal but broken structures for the alien side which shows the marines equivalent is lacking badly.
Let me guess, you like aliens.
And pretty much all your suggestions were biased towards marines.
Comments
It wasn't clearly stated why it was removed. One possibility is the need for a model for the sentry-battery mechanic. (free sentry placing was bad) Another possibility was the increase in turtling-capabilities it created, when coupled to the IPs in the main base. It was removed and reintroduced at least two times in the beta.
My guess is that it was a fire and forget mechanic. While it did offer neat possibilities like ninja phases etc, a lot of times it boiled down to OH I HAVE EXTRA RES *build 100 batteries* (note: this is clearly an exaggeration). Then you had redundant power and didn't even have to think about it which kind of nullified the whole power grid concept.
I'd like to see the mechanic come back in a commander usable much like medpacks or nanoshield. You can target an unpowered structure and cause a "power surge" which allows it to be turned on for 10ish seconds for the cost of res. The ability can be restricted if need be to only be castable if there is a powered CC. I think this would cause less issues than the battery, still allow ninja tactics, and also retain being a viable option for the mechanic without being a set it and forget it kind of thing.
/shrug
At that particular time the actual powernodes themselves were sometimes placed in really bad spots, so much that the old flight control, people used to just use a battery pack and didn't even bother with the power node
(At the time, crevis didn't even have a power node, so you needed to use a battery pack to actually build that res! lol)
Unfortunately however, it was turtling heaven back then. The sentries were a lot stronger than they are now, there was no limit, you can build however many you have res for, and aliens had no bilebomb or onos to break seiges.
So it was decided then that we needed the 'power node weakness' in the game to actually help break turtles.. and they fixed up all the power node positions and removed the battery pack from the game...
rest is history
Frankly, I'm up for anything that removes the silly "I win" buttons, and forces alien teams to actually work for a win.
It's a dedicated server with AltBalance mod.
Name: AltBalance Valley.
searchable by Game: balance
I'm currently trying to make the last update before Big Meditation.
ITT: Bad player with too much time on his hands making balance changes that he isn't qualified to make. People arguing about the principle of what he's doing when in reality this will go nowhere so it's moot.
Now that's the spirit! Here, take some cookies, have a seat.
Remember, Flayra also often posts 'Balance Mod' on Steam Workshop and you guys should check that out too!
The bigger reason it was removed if I could emphasize one of my previous contentions would be that it was a permanent circumvention of the power node and as such "trivialized" the mechanic (a mechanic I feel needs to be removed or completely overhauled but that's another story for another day). Also then there were people like TotalBiscuit dropping them every which way thinking they were the primary way to power structures due to their role being partially ambiguous.
They solved a problem of the power grid being too limiting but they weren't the right solution and were more of a band-aid to a mechanic that needs revisions.
::Whip vs Arc::
Whip-Ranged Projectile, Upclose Attack, Has the Ability to throw grenades back
Arc - Moves, Shoots through Walls
Solution, Arcs have a built in Machine gun on the Side
::Gorge vs Standard Marine::
Gorge - Hydra, Bile Bomb, Heal, Slide, Goop Wall, + Any Evolution traight they want (and now Tunnels)
Marine - 1 Weapon, Limited Stamina, Welder , Mine
Solution - Give Marines the Chose to buy Mini Turrets from the Armory, aswell as mini holographic defense (for a good reference, look at U2 Multiplayer) Reduce Price of Mines 5 res a single mine.
::Hydra vs Turret::
Hydra - Req's No power, 360 Degree
Turret - Req's Battery, Short Cone Degree.. Can be quickly taken out by Skulk
Solution - Remove Marine Turret, Make Turrets part of the Map (on the wall).. and available to marines to build with Welders (aswell as bring back the ability to weld doors,etc)
::Marine Buildings vs Alien Buildings::
Alien Building - Builds itself, and Regens
Marine Building - Req Marines to Build and Repair
Solution - Give Marines some sort of upgrade for Units for Defense ( See NS1 for Reference)
::Mobility and Utility::
Marines - Jetpack
Aliens - Skulk, Lerk, Belly Slide, Fade Flash, Onos Stampede, Invisibility
Solution - Make 2 Genders for Marines
1 - Male, Stronger but Slower
2- Female , Cloaked- Faster but Weaker
::Changes for Both Sides::
Aliens - Evolve only near a hive
Marines - Rework Battery as Backup Power Device for IPS and Comchair.. Main Battery for Defense in Base (Wall Turrets)
UWE.. please read my ideas, I beleive they will bring the balance everyone wants without making both sides completely the same.
Hey, either it works or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then nothing ventured - nothing gained.
It's not like anyone is forced to play on a server with this mod. As is the case with 24 player servers (which also markedly alter balance just by nature of the higher player count) if something is fun, people will play it. People will vote with their disconnect buttons.
The community has a lot of creativity, passion, man hours, and little consequences for failure. Let them try some bigger, more sweeping changes, to see how they play out.
Examples:
A mod which tests game play with out power nodes.
A mode which tests game play lifeform upgrades unchained from hives
etc...
Instead of trying to 'fix' the current NS2, it be better if you tried to make a variation of the existing game (similar to what Combat and Marine v Marine do). It would be better received and allow you much more creativity and flexibilty fitting the game to your designs.
Because it was mostly used for turtling. Marine comms would slap powerpacks next to IPs/sentries such that if the power went down, they'd still work. Unfortunately, it led to many situations in which aliens had full map control, but were unable to finish the game because killing the powernode wouldn't disable all of the structures.
It was also no longer necessary since every location (on the official maps at least) were powered by a powernode.
Completely agree. I'd rather test out MODs made by players that have changes or content deemed too risky for UWE to test out themselves.
Server is already rented and running. So I suggest we start playing it tomorrow.
Again, you fail to consider that is how things are NOW. There are all kinds of mods out there that do different things based on what server mods they are running. That's why they are a different colour and also why you can filter out those servers if you want a more 'consistent' experience.
Simple example... I was on Tactical Gamer and our marine team conceded. When it happened there was a text announcement saying we were voting on it, and I thought "hey, that's cool." After the vote succeeded, the game was still going. We all looked around for a second, and then in the text chat the server announced that the aliens had 120 to kill the comm chair or the marines win by default. I shrugged and said to myself, "OK, we get a last stand." Except for one problem. We didn't.
The mod made the aliens invulnerable, so basically they were free to kill us like target dummies. Then they took out the comm chair and won. That had to be one of the worst ways to mod the concede vote, and I won't be playing on there again with that mod on. HOWEVER, their server, their rules. If they want to do that, they are totally within their right to do so, just as I have my choice to play elsewhere.
We have combat modes, marine versus marine modes, amongst other changes. There is no doomsday playerbase split.
Wrong again. All modded servers are yellow and can be filtered. That includes this balance mod. He has also changed the game name to 'Balance', so you can see at a glance that it is different from other servers. No one can say they don't know they are playing on a modded server.
Mods are never a 'bad idea'. Mods are either played or they are not played. If people like them, they play them, if they don't they won't.
It's that simple.
Thanks, Hugh! But I'll make it more than just a dummy for future official changes.
I would, cause he advices to give up on my idea. I'm interested to do exaclty what I'm doing now. Also, I can afford to make risky changes like removing alien p. res.
But situation is completely different now. Marines do need at least some protection against concentrated node assault at main base. Unless you like to block it with armories.
On paper I also doubt it will be the way to balance, but respect still.
I'm only gonna say this, if anyone has ever played a strategy game.. lets just starcraft, not one race.. only has Invisibility or speed.
Giving one side a multitude of shit, and handicapping the other side leads to massive problems with balance.. or did you not take the time read all the equal but broken structures for the alien side which shows the marines equivalent is lacking badly.
Let me guess, you like aliens.
Man, you compared those things, but on practice they don't bumb in this equations. No one denies you had several good points and game's balance could be better. But what should we do about it?
Im not sure what your trying to indicate by agreeing with me about players never agreeing over balance changes, but pointing out that UWE has the same issue. Of course they do, however being as this is their game, they are free to make the changes they want, to resolve balance in the ways they want. The point behind that issue is that managing to find and maintain a playerbase on a mod that is strickly 'balance' is near impossible, as most players will never agree with enough of the changes to stick around.
Mods like what your describing on TG are also somewhat different, as generally they only impact certain situations within the game, or (atleast what I am suspecting) is that the inability to damage the other team in that situation was more a bug then a feature. Mods in general are not a bad idea at all, but making a mod which changes little from the vanilla game generally has little player draw, especially when you label it as a 'balance' mod.
I have made many balance mods that ranged from completely changing almost every aspect of the game, to ones that tried to stay within the current 'designs', all were generally popular for a time, but quickly became less and less popular over time, for many various reasons.
I'm sure there's a part of player base which is frustrated with current alien supremacy. And they would gladly play NS2 that is more balanced. And I make it. Simple as that.
So, please stop trying to stop me making it. I do it because I enjoy it. Neveretheless, thank you for your intentions, cause you're probably trying to save my time.
Quoting yourself, eh?
Yet, I think, if offical solutions were more decisive - playerbase and profits could've been a lot higher. Leaving a game with a huge practical inbalance even for two weeks without patching is a wrong decision.
The powerpack was originally included to allow marines to build in rooms with no powernodes, but we're quickly adopted as a method for marines to turtle (i.e. they used to power all marine structures within a certain radius, so you would cluster IPs/armories/obs/sentries around them as insurance if the power went out). It certainly helped with the powernode rush issue, but led to terrible one-base marine turtling problems.
Instead of bringing back powerpacks or removing powernodes, I'd rather see something like structures still being functional for a limited amount of time after a powernode is destroyed (e.g. bringing back the structure energy, but using it only for powering structures when the powernode is destroyed).
And pretty much all your suggestions were biased towards marines.
Let me guess, you like marines.