I think a small boost to skulk speed and/or acceleration might be nice but honestly I don't think it's needed that badly. I was 18:1 on Tram a few nights ago as a skulk with no upgrades. When you're playing the way the class was designed to be played rather than running down a hallway into a hail of gunfire, marines don't stand a chance.
Anecdotal evidence ftw!
No offense, but just because you had a good k/d in a single game a couple of nights ago doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with the skulk.
two skulks running in the same direction and the one at the back grazes the leader and suddenly he's back to base move speed.
Huh? I've never had this, in fact quite often I find myself in the situation where I end up running/jumping on top of another skulk that is also running/jumping while maintaining speed, it's hilarious and feels exploitable (in fact I think there used to be an exploit where aliens could jump off each other indefinitely, allowing lerks to boost onos into ridiculous locations :P)
Metal ManJoin Date: 2011-11-13Member: 132717Members
I looked through this thread looking for a dev response but I didn't find any... so correct me if I'm wrong.
But how hard is it to do a quick one second response from Hugh or someone saying "We are working on it." You don't need details but just some indication that it is being considered. Really, this is ridiculous. This is a multi-week thread addressing a large complaint by what sure feels like a majority of your player base. It feels like waiting for the D3 patches during its gradual plummet into the abyss. Your game is great, but it is far from flawless... Update your dedicated fans with anything. "Pleasantly Surprising" us won't do the trick.
In a more bitter tone, there are no monthly fees or micro transactions so I guess they don't really need to keep us around anymore...
Metal ManJoin Date: 2011-11-13Member: 132717Members
edited April 2013
Okay I think we can all realize my last post was a bit bitter. I apologize. But I think they still need to say it clearly or make it more transparent to the community. I don't play the game often largely because of my frustration with early game and skulking. I don't use the balance test mod and I shouldn't have to considering my play time, so certain things aren't "obvious" in the slightest.
If they mentioned that they are working on, or even considering, readjustments I would definitely stay more updated and interested in the game. They should want that to keep their community engaged
Well if you want to know what changes are coming, then you should try out the balance mod for a few games.
In the balance mod with regards to this issue:
Skulks are lot faster at moving around the map using bhop and glancing jumps off the wall. Skulks have more control on the ground and less control in the air. Marines have slightly less control on the ground than in live NS2.
Some other relevant changes:
No res while dead is removed (IE aliens get lifeforms out sooner). Marine's bullets are larger, which makes shooting feel more consistent and makes marines marginally stronger. Much of the economy is hugely revamped which can also impact this skulk vs marine dynamic.
Oh and the early game is longer, with aliens also have a lot more potential for comebacks if they lose 2nd hive or don't immediately manage to lock down a second. That alone is huge. It shouldn't be hard to find a BT game as usually there's at least one server running it on evening times GMT. \
Do hope somebody runs a competitive game on it sometime though, would be curious to see how that all plays out.
I've heard that they do not want to make big changes before the final of nsl league ... but final is over, week has passed, and skulks still suffer. and still no words from devs here, no eta
The Skulk values in question are the same, I checked them yesterday.
It seems we have to wait for the balance mod's reworked movement being ported over to vanilla for any change, so nothing to see here at the moment :-\"
Hit-box/Collision.
Alien play is FRUSTRATING as a group. It's meant to be a team game but as soon as you come close to another teammate you lose all acceleration, stop dead in your tracks and have to start all over again.
I don't see how a marine can run OVER a gorge, while at the same time when an onos tries they lose all speed and have to build up again. This is SO frustrating. I've literally had a lerk glide past me, it didnt change it's line of flight, yet as soon as it got in front of me the tip of it's wing stopped my onos charge dead in it's track.
While playing skulk/fade, marines seem to pass through alien lifeforms at will, yet I have never had the same fortune while trying to run through another alien. Fades bounce off skulks, gorges, lerks! Onos stop dead in their tracks on slightly touching a gorge or lerk, two skulks running in the same direction and the one at the back grazes the leader and suddenly he's back to base move speed.
To be honest, the ground acceleration/nerf or whatever could be tweaked, but I would love to see some actual fair movement for all alien lifeforms in relation to hitboxes, along with marines 'phasing' through aliens.
Pretty much this is my frustration playing, leaping at a rine and then finding he's walking on your head is daft.
When playing alien always have your corsair aim just a little bit up. If you do that you will be able to punish all jumping marines with ease. Marines should always be careful when they jump because:
1. Their movement becomes predictable
2. They can't get medpacks in the air
3. They lose their speed.
You have to time your jump for them to be effective. Its usually best to only use A and D to dodge when you start and then add jump as you get better feel for it.
Skulks move just a little bit faster than marines currently so its important for them to maintain their speed to get into close combat. After you get into close combat you should never allow the marines to create distance again, otherwise there is a high chance you will die. If he does manage a successful backjump to create distance its important not to move in a straight line, it's common mistake and will get the skulk killed.
The best thing you can do against marines is to learn to maintain speed to close the distance with marines(or do effective ambushes). After that you need to be able to land 75 damage bites and not allow the marine out of your sight. If the marine jumps its usually a good idea to simply go under him where he will be unable to target you effectively.
The most important part of playing skulk though is pick winning engagements. It really matters where you engage the marine and how. Skulks often rely on diversions or forcing marines to split their focus to get advantages. This is why playing solo skulk is much harder on public than marines, skulks work much better in numbers.
Even so collision and feel of the game has plenty of room for improvement. I believe that the balance test is a huge step in the right direction.
The most important part of playing skulk though is pick winning engagements. It really matters where you engage the marine and how.
This so much!
There has been a number of times where I see a skulk rush into 2 marines in a corridor and die, while I've been waiting..... Then I get the "dude why didn't you help out". There's a reason I was waiting, to get positional advantage! You aren't going to win engagements if the marines have a positional advantage, unless you have superior numbers or able to attack them from multiple angles (but then they wouldn't have positional advantage in the first place.) Although, if that skulk is somehow able to survive at least a couple of seconds (IE: marines with bad a aim), then I'll rush in and help.
Problem with that is you can't always "pick your winning engagements", e.g. Harvester defense or you just *need* to attack something right now like a Marine in the center of a room building a gate.
Given that the better part of the Alien game is determined (against good Marines) by defending early game harvesters and quickly securing key locations/tech points...
There's a reason that post 240, maps have been cluttered with random crates and stuff just to provide some kind of cover for Skulks (worst offenders: Sorting and Crusher on Mineshaft). I don't think this is an actual solution, just a band-aid that highlights the Skulk slowness problem.
Problem with that is you can't always "pick your winning engagements", e.g. Harvester defense or you just *need* to attack something right now like a Marine in the center of a room building a gate.
.
I disagree, those examples you gave are usually winning engagements as well. It's pretty easy to take on a marine who is busy attacking a harvester or a marine who doesn't have his gun out because he's building something.
I agree and I disagree; it's true 8 times out of 10, but there are rooms so big that the marine can see you coming long before you have the first bite.
I hate to rekindle this necro argument.. but in the name of spineless self promotion and the fact we've made a mod that 'fixes' jump spam. BUMP, BUMP! BUMP! BUMP!
I hate to rekindle this necro argument.. but in the name of spineless self promotion and the fact we've made a mod that 'fixes' jump spam. BUMP, BUMP! BUMP! BUMP!
It also intends to introduce tri-faced phasegates, so everything this man says should be taken with a grain of salt as his sanity has to be questioned
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited June 2014
Your mod thread can serve to continue that discussion.. since.. well.. there really isn't a discussion anymore besides the temporary perceived unfairness from rookies who don't know any better than "floor skulking". (which your mod oddly encourages??)
I'm pimping your mod by bringing it into general discussion to continue discussion there instead of re hashing a year old thread.
This one is closed.
Comments
Anecdotal evidence ftw!
No offense, but just because you had a good k/d in a single game a couple of nights ago doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with the skulk.
But how hard is it to do a quick one second response from Hugh or someone saying "We are working on it." You don't need details but just some indication that it is being considered. Really, this is ridiculous. This is a multi-week thread addressing a large complaint by what sure feels like a majority of your player base. It feels like waiting for the D3 patches during its gradual plummet into the abyss. Your game is great, but it is far from flawless... Update your dedicated fans with anything. "Pleasantly Surprising" us won't do the trick.
In a more bitter tone, there are no monthly fees or micro transactions so I guess they don't really need to keep us around anymore...
If they mentioned that they are working on, or even considering, readjustments I would definitely stay more updated and interested in the game. They should want that to keep their community engaged
In the balance mod with regards to this issue:
Skulks are lot faster at moving around the map using bhop and glancing jumps off the wall. Skulks have more control on the ground and less control in the air. Marines have slightly less control on the ground than in live NS2.
Some other relevant changes:
No res while dead is removed (IE aliens get lifeforms out sooner). Marine's bullets are larger, which makes shooting feel more consistent and makes marines marginally stronger. Much of the economy is hugely revamped which can also impact this skulk vs marine dynamic.
Do hope somebody runs a competitive game on it sometime though, would be curious to see how that all plays out.
It seems we have to wait for the balance mod's reworked movement being ported over to vanilla for any change, so nothing to see here at the moment :-\"
Pretty much this is my frustration playing, leaping at a rine and then finding he's walking on your head is daft.
1. Their movement becomes predictable
2. They can't get medpacks in the air
3. They lose their speed.
You have to time your jump for them to be effective. Its usually best to only use A and D to dodge when you start and then add jump as you get better feel for it.
Skulks move just a little bit faster than marines currently so its important for them to maintain their speed to get into close combat. After you get into close combat you should never allow the marines to create distance again, otherwise there is a high chance you will die. If he does manage a successful backjump to create distance its important not to move in a straight line, it's common mistake and will get the skulk killed.
The best thing you can do against marines is to learn to maintain speed to close the distance with marines(or do effective ambushes). After that you need to be able to land 75 damage bites and not allow the marine out of your sight. If the marine jumps its usually a good idea to simply go under him where he will be unable to target you effectively.
The most important part of playing skulk though is pick winning engagements. It really matters where you engage the marine and how. Skulks often rely on diversions or forcing marines to split their focus to get advantages. This is why playing solo skulk is much harder on public than marines, skulks work much better in numbers.
Even so collision and feel of the game has plenty of room for improvement. I believe that the balance test is a huge step in the right direction.
This so much!
There has been a number of times where I see a skulk rush into 2 marines in a corridor and die, while I've been waiting..... Then I get the "dude why didn't you help out". There's a reason I was waiting, to get positional advantage! You aren't going to win engagements if the marines have a positional advantage, unless you have superior numbers or able to attack them from multiple angles (but then they wouldn't have positional advantage in the first place.) Although, if that skulk is somehow able to survive at least a couple of seconds (IE: marines with bad a aim), then I'll rush in and help.
Given that the better part of the Alien game is determined (against good Marines) by defending early game harvesters and quickly securing key locations/tech points...
There's a reason that post 240, maps have been cluttered with random crates and stuff just to provide some kind of cover for Skulks (worst offenders: Sorting and Crusher on Mineshaft). I don't think this is an actual solution, just a band-aid that highlights the Skulk slowness problem.
I disagree, those examples you gave are usually winning engagements as well. It's pretty easy to take on a marine who is busy attacking a harvester or a marine who doesn't have his gun out because he's building something.
Pls no.
It also intends to introduce tri-faced phasegates, so everything this man says should be taken with a grain of salt as his sanity has to be questioned
... think i meant to necro the other more recent jumping thread, apologies :P
I suggest renaming it the trifacegate (triforcegate?)
Your mod thread can serve to continue that discussion.. since.. well.. there really isn't a discussion anymore besides the temporary perceived unfairness from rookies who don't know any better than "floor skulking". (which your mod oddly encourages??)
I'm pimping your mod by bringing it into general discussion to continue discussion there instead of re hashing a year old thread.
This one is closed.