i can outrun ground skulks if i drop my rifle and pistol course a lot of that is cuz i move smooth as butter all up and down those dark hallways mmmmmmm
The last few days I started to get angry when playing, main reason is jumping marines. They are jumping everytime when in battle. Everytime.
I'am not a rookie in this game, i know how to play as skulk, im using my ears, shadows, silent movement, ceiling, walls, wall-jumping ... I'm waiting for the right moment to attack, jump from the ceiling and bite into neck of the victim ... but my victim just jumps from me a couple of meters and kills me. This is ridiculous.
So it was the same at NS1? Unfortunately I do not remember, it was a long time ago i played at NS1, about 10 years ago.
ps sorry for my bad english
The last few days I started to get angry when playing, main reason is jumping marines. They are jumping everytime when in battle. Everytime.
I'am not a rookie in this game, i know how to play as skulk, im using my ears, shadows, silent movement, ceiling, walls, wall-jumping ... I'm waiting for the right moment to attack, jump from the ceiling and bite into neck of the victim ... but my victim just jumps from me a couple of meters and kills me. This is ridiculous.
So it was the same at NS1? Unfortunately I do not remember, it was a long time ago i played at NS1, about 10 years ago.
ps sorry for my bad english
This. I am by no means a pro skulk, but I know how it should be played, and generally did pretty decently before the last few builds. Every engagement now, I spend most of my time constantly catching up to marines that are leaping out of the way. I am starting to avoid aliens altogether because skulk is so absolutely unfun to play against decent marines. Please start trying some fixes for this asap.
The last few days I started to get angry when playing, main reason is jumping marines. They are jumping everytime when in battle. Everytime.
I'am not a rookie in this game, i know how to play as skulk, im using my ears, shadows, silent movement, ceiling, walls, wall-jumping ... I'm waiting for the right moment to attack, jump from the ceiling and bite into neck of the victim ... but my victim just jumps from me a couple of meters and kills me. This is ridiculous.
So it was the same at NS1? Unfortunately I do not remember, it was a long time ago i played at NS1, about 10 years ago.
ps sorry for my bad english
ofcourse it was the same, only difference is u got the shit blown out of u from a pistol rather then lmg.
The skulk used to be one of my favorite life forms. Now I can barely play 3-4 games as aliens before getting frustrated with the skulk and playing something else. Skulks just aren't fun any more and it has definitely affected the amount of time I spend playing NS2.
...words...
I'am not a rookie in this game, ...words...
You may not be a rookie but you aren't a vet yet either. While I agree that skulks have it a little rougher than before I still find skulks relevant and potent throughout the whole game and I'm by no means a grand master. As far as Vets go I'm probably average at best.
Skulks do have it more difficult than before. That's not debatable.
1) Skulk hitboxes, especially while climbing on vertical surfaces, were fixed.
2) Ridiculous air control mechanics that allowed skulks to change direction on a dime were fixed.
3) Continual performance optimizations mean that a greater number of marines are able to shoot accurately.
These fixes constituted nerfs for many skulk players. The question is whether these changes are unfair, or whether the skulk is now broken, or whether marines have some distinct advantage.
Where I disagree with many people in this thread is that in making these changes, UWE has also made the skulk impossible or less fun to play. Laced throughout this discussion are hyperbolic assertions that it's "impossible" to kill marines when they juke-jump, that skulks are disadvantaged while at close range, and so on. These assertions aren't anywhere close to true.
I play the game routinely, and every ounce of my anecdotal evidence suggests that many of the scenarios described here simply don't occur if you're playing well. The skulk may have a slightly higher skill floor than the starting marine (slightly), but I'd argue that anyone who would take advantage of formerly broken air control mechanics probably didn't need to worry too much about that floor to begin with. There are countless ways to kill a marine who jumps defensively - again, the only real defensive maneuver a marine has - and they've been expressed many times in this thread. Like skulks, a marine can't change his direction mid-air. Once a skulk has leap, the skulk can change his direction mid-air. The skulk just can't change his direction mid-air while performing normal jumps, now.
When you get to melee range, do not try to chase a marine by mirroring his jumps. If a marine juke-jumps out of the way, you will not be able to leap to where he was standing and then be able to magically turn your direction mid-air without the help of leap. The old days are gone. When you glide by a marine, you give him time to shoot you.
People complaining about this are still attempting to do what they used to be able to do, and that's not a sign that skulk isn't fun, but rather that players aren't adapting. The game feels as close to balanced as it has since I began playing.
Skulks do have it more difficult than before. That's not debatable.
1) Skulk hitboxes, especially while climbing on vertical surfaces, were fixed.
2) Ridiculous air control mechanics that allowed skulks to change direction on a dime were fixed.
3) Continual performance optimizations mean that a greater number of marines are able to shoot accurately.
These fixes constituted nerfs for many skulk players. The question is whether these changes are unfair, or whether the skulk is now broken, or whether marines have some distinct advantage.
Where I disagree with many people in this thread is that in making these changes, UWE has also made the skulk impossible or less fun to play. Laced throughout this discussion are hyperbolic assertions that it's "impossible" to kill marines when they juke-jump, that skulks are disadvantaged while at close range, and so on. These assertions aren't anywhere close to true.
I play the game routinely, and every ounce of my anecdotal evidence suggests that many of the scenarios described here simply don't occur if you're playing well. The skulk may have a slightly higher skill floor than the starting marine (slightly), but I'd argue that anyone who would take advantage of formerly broken air control mechanics probably didn't need to worry too much about that floor to begin with. There are countless ways to kill a marine who jumps defensively - again, the only real defensive maneuver a marine has - and they've been expressed many times in this thread. Like skulks, a marine can't change his direction mid-air. Once a skulk has leap, the skulk can change his direction mid-air. The skulk just can't change his direction mid-air while performing normal jumps, now.
When you get to melee range, do not try to chase a marine by mirroring his jumps. If a marine juke-jumps out of the way, you will not be able to leap to where he was standing and then be able to magically turn your direction mid-air without the help of leap. The old days are gone. When you glide by a marine, you give him time to shoot you.
People complaining about this are still attempting to do what they used to be able to do, and that's not a sign that skulk isn't fun, but rather that players aren't adapting. The game feels as close to balanced as it has since I began playing.
Wish you'd give it up with the l2p because honestly dude, you aren't even good. This isn't a l2p issue, so just stop.
Great demonstration of high level intelligence there Fark. You really showed him!
Anyway, let's look at the progression of NS2.
>Game launched
>Marines walked around and shot skulks
>Smart marines realized that the more distance they create between themselves and the skulk, the easier it was to kill it.
>Enter marine hopping
Old Skulk:
>Extremely high air control.
>Easily could 1v1 w0a0 average marine (with hopping)
>Nerf removed some air control creating better early game marine:early game skulk balance
Thoughts: Is the skulk perfectly balanced yet? No. Is the skulk balance better? Yes.
Attacking a marine who hops well is extremely frustrating so I see where a lot of these arguments are coming from. Do I personally feel that marine hopping is a little OP? Yes I do but it is something people can work with.
The thing I am not understanding is the arguments around constant jumping. The whole point of hopping when you are a marine is to create space between you and the target. If you see a solo skulk coming at you and you juke him with a random hop to the left, the space you create should easily give you enough time to kill it. No second hop needed. If you get ambushed by three skulks, hopping is normally not going to save you.
lower ground and air control as it rewards accurate biting and punishes drawn out melee battles. It also adds an element of positioning to melee combat that isn't present if skulks can just W-move and instantly respond to marine dodging.
you were used to abusing the ridiculous old system where you got 12m/s leap speed with wall jumping and ridiculous air control with little to no thought or skill.
I think going back to the old acceleration would be a bad choice, honestly, as all it did was create flickering/glitchy animations and highly unpredictable movement, imo. Skulk movement changes may not have been the sole reason for the sway in win rates, given the optimizations and hit reg fixes, but we all know it obviously factored in within the first few minutes playing that patch. They are far more predictable and thus easier to track.
Still neutral on the solution.. but I definitely see the downsides to going back to how it was.
Anymore ideas?
These downsides don't convince me too much
Currently, Skulk movement only "rewards accurate biting" if you kill the Marine before he jumps. After that, no amount of accuracy helps you...
If accurate biting is to be rewarded, the glancing bite full damage area must get smaller (or damage as a whole reduced), not the Skulk harder to control.
And what's wrong with drawn out melee battles? Isn't that what is fun and gives more skill-based chances to both sides, as opposed to quick-kill or quick-death, which is more dependent on circumstances and luck?
Also, it seems the other downsides are just people afraid of the old random quantum Skulk, which has soooo much to do with (server) performance, hitboxes and hitreg (which were all fixed)... and almost nothing with Skulk movement itself.
Not sure why a higher Skulk acceleration would cause glitches though. Do you have any indication this is why the numbers were reduced so much (more than 50%!)? My impression was UWE simply wanted to err on side of Marines for all the new players, to prevent pre-240 stomps.
Again, my ideas how to fix this and, if needed, how to nerf Skulks some other way:
necessary:
- directly allow Skulks to keep up with hopping Marines
optional:
- less Skulk damage
- smaller full damage area, more glancing bites
- less Skulk HP
- whatever UWE can come up with, it's their job
How about Marine accel 100 and Skulk accel 100? Same number, but no Marine nerf.
If accurate biting is to be rewarded, the glancing bite full damage area must get smaller (or damage as a whole reduced), not the Skulk harder to control.
Thats not why it was done, though??...
See those quotes I listed, it mostly had to do with unpredictable movement and intentional or unintentional exploitation of animation oddities and their compounding impact.
Also, it seems the other downsides are just people afraid of the old random quantum Skulk, which has soooo much to do with (server) performance, hitboxes and hitreg (which were all fixed)... and almost nothing with Skulk movement itself.
Disagree, see above reply as well as feel free to search my posts in the past where i posted vids of well known animation issues that were inherent to that acceleration, as well as wall orientation issues.
I do believe this subject on the skulk having less control in close quarters was an unintentional byproduct of addressing the larger issue: the "quantum skulk" that you referenced.
Which... obviously was due to the previous numerical settings?
Evidenced by the fact that you can easily revert those numbers yourself and find the same level of quantum skulk behavior return - despite a lack of hitreg issues - along with the same level of inability to respond to such unpredictable and spastic movement amongst the non-top-tier-players.
That being said, after playing in the past 48 hours almost exclusively looking for evidence and frequency of this subject, I must admit that the skulk could be increased, and the marine could be decreased. (I realize its "fun" currently for the marine, just like it was for the "quantum skulk" previously, and that's important, but there are gradients, and at 100 you have some wiggle room - 95 doesnt feel unfun, so find that number.)
Edit: Try out the Balance Test mod and give feedback on that movement!Join the steam group for it to keep in the loop for matches. Its a whole new movement system and afaik is based off of idtech movement.
Wish you'd give it up with the l2p because honestly dude, you aren't even good. This isn't a l2p issue, so just stop.
I can't recall having played with anyone named "Farknut," so... that's fine if you think so. Of course, there was one random, oddly fixated person who joined a game where I was attempting to teach four greens and a new commander how to play just two days ago, but I won't presume that was you. If it was, it would mean you followed me from here after having developed some kind of strange "personal interest" in consequence of my posts! And that would be weird. As such, I won't assume it was you. All that said, feel free to come hang out @ KCABS or Voogru or any server that pings decently on night hours, EST. I'd be happy to play with you! Let me know if you show up. Anyway, I see no reason to sling insults around, especially since you haven't really responded to any of my points while doing so.
I really do think it's a bit of a L2PD issue, which is to say 'learn to play differently'. One skulk maneuver (changing direction while jumping) has been rendered far less effective given the recent changes, but I've experienced virtually no problematic changes elsewhere (post-241). A great marine will be able to make the most out of a single juke (as joshhh points out above), but 1) the juke can be anticipated based on initial positioning (yours and your target's) and 2) if the marine fails to kill you after creating distance, he should be dead immediately after. If you successfully ambush, your odds of victory go up even more.
I'm also mostly in agreement with the rest of joshhh says, actually, though I'd go to greater lengths to emphasize that the marine juking absolutely is something people can work with. The fact that it's more reliably effective at all now seems to be why people are so upset about it to begin with - this isn't something people had to deal with much in the past. But there's hardly consensus on this issue; the OP has plenty of people disagreeing with him.
What it comes down to is "playing against good players can be really frustrating," and that cuts both ways - marines and aliens. Of course, I don't think it's frustrating playing against amazing players, since learning how they do what they do 1) makes me better at doing the same thing and 2) better at countering.
Today i encountered 3 skulks alone, i killed first 2 then i was out of ammo and low hp. Then i jumped around like a frog half minute without the last skulk landing a single bite on me, till my friends arrived and killed the skulk. I felt bad for the skulk and i felt shame for playing so overpowered "class".
The mind boggles at the suggestions of nerfing marine movement. It was skulk acceleration that was most recently broken, the way to repair it is to repair the skulk movement, not break the marine!
Nerfing marine movement will reduce the fun of playing marine. It will also make dodging all the other alien classes more difficult. I think dodging the others right now is reasonably fair.
I don't think such a stat is publicly available, but if it were I would love to see the alien to marine K:D for 239, 240, 241/2/3.
It seems every game I play now the skulks get mashed regardless of who wins and most aliens will have a K:D of 0.5 at round end unless the teams were very unbalanced in terms of skill.
Wish you'd give it up with the l2p because honestly dude, you aren't even good. This isn't a l2p issue, so just stop.
I can't recall having played with anyone named "Farknut," so... that's fine if you think so. Of course, there was one random, oddly fixated person who joined a game where I was attempting to teach four greens and a new commander how to play just two days ago, but I won't presume that was you. If it was, it would mean you followed me from here after having developed some kind of strange "personal interest" in consequence of my posts! And that would be weird. As such, I won't assume it was you. All that said, feel free to come hang out @ KCABS or Voogru or any server that pings decently on night hours, EST. I'd be happy to play with you! Let me know if you show up. Anyway, I see no reason to sling insults around, especially since you haven't really responded to any of my points while doing so.
I really do think it's a bit of a L2PD issue, which is to say 'learn to play differently'. One skulk maneuver (changing direction while jumping) has been rendered far less effective given the recent changes, but I've experienced virtually no problematic changes elsewhere (post-241). A great marine will be able to make the most out of a single juke (as joshhh points out above), but 1) the juke can be anticipated based on initial positioning (yours and your target's) and 2) if the marine fails to kill you after creating distance, he should be dead immediately after. If you successfully ambush, your odds of victory go up even more.
What it comes down to is "playing against good players can be really frustrating," and that cuts both ways - marines and aliens. Of course, I don't think it's frustrating playing against amazing players, since learning how they do what they do 1) makes me better at doing the same thing and 2) better at countering.
I agree with NousWanderer. But I think there is an element a lot of people are not considering.
I haven't played since day 1 of launch but to my knowledge marine movement has not been changed much or at all (or at least not nearly as often as skulk). So what this means is that as long as there are no changes Marines can constantly increase in skill, because their consistency is not being affected by change, adaptation, and relearning of basic movement. Therefore, marines have always continued to get better and maintained steady growth. As they should. Marines draw the most rookies just as it did with myself and many others. That is because they carry guns and this is predominately an FPS.
Now take the skulk. Skulk movement has constantly been tweaked. This means that alien lovers have continually had to adapt and relearn do to changes in the controls. Therefore the skulk skill level has been growing at an inconsistent rate. This means that an alien prone player and a marine prone player both starting at day 1 of launch have not had the same opportunity or growth rate. That is why skulk has been frustrating for alien players. Their controls are often changed.
I think this is the main element that is causing so much continuing concern with skulks. I'm not saying skulks don't matter in anyway. They along with Marines are the most important class in the game.
I think if skulks were left at a satisfactory place for a long enough period of time without any further changes we would see gameplay balance out in the long run.
Today i encountered 3 skulks alone, i killed first 2 then i was out of ammo and low hp. Then i jumped around like a frog half minute without the last skulk landing a single bite on me, till my friends arrived and killed the skulk. I felt bad for the skulk and i felt shame for playing so overpowered "class".
The other day I was skulking around and managed to take out two marines with an ambush. When their three friends turned to get a bead on me, I was already climbing the backside of a nearby pillar! I then hopped from pillar to pillar and took out another marine on the far edge. When the remaining two turned to shoot, I climbed back onto the far side of the pillar and quietly walked to a hole in an archway. I ambushed one of the last two marines, killed him, and proceeded to hop over and finish off the last with about 10 health remaining. At multiple points in the fight, I could have safely escaped rather than continue attacking.
Consider: this is entirely anecdotal, and entirely unremarkable, and entirely insufficient evidence for promoting changes of any kind. It doesn't mean skulks are overpowered or that marines are underpowered. It only means that five marines didn't do very well in crossroads once upon a time.
It is pretty funny to watch a multiple person (more than 2 or 3 marines + 2-3 skulks) battle from a distance - the marines look like they are a bunch of pogo-stick kids hopping around while their dogs try to bite their ankles. I don't know what to suggest to fix all this, but if you sit back and watch experienced players fight a large battle, it really does look absurd.
You may not be a rookie but you aren't a vet yet either. While I agree that skulks have it a little rougher than before I still find skulks relevant and potent throughout the whole game and I'm by no means a grand master. As far as Vets go I'm probably average at best.
can you tell me what to do to become a veteran? or anyone in this tread can tell me what i need to do to raise my skulk skill and increase my chances in the battle against hopping marines?
and for god sake when will we see a developer post here? they know? they plan to change anything? or I will have to just get used to it?
ps sorry for bad english
Wish you'd give it up with the l2p because honestly dude, you aren't even good. This isn't a l2p issue, so just stop.
I can't recall having played with anyone named "Farknut," so... that's fine if you think so. Of course, there was one random, oddly fixated person who joined a game where I was attempting to teach four greens and a new commander how to play just two days ago, but I won't presume that was you. If it was, it would mean you followed me from here after having developed some kind of strange "personal interest" in consequence of my posts! And that would be weird. As such, I won't assume it was you. All that said, feel free to come hang out @ KCABS or Voogru or any server that pings decently on night hours, EST. I'd be happy to play with you! Let me know if you show up. Anyway, I see no reason to sling insults around, especially since you haven't really responded to any of my points while doing so.
I don't need to respond to your points because, like I already said, all you've got are variations on "l2p" when that isn't the issue. I obviously don't use the same handle in game, and I've played many many games with you. Unfortunately I'm not your stalker though, sorry.
KasharicHull, EnglandJoin Date: 2013-03-27Member: 184473Members, Forum Admins, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer
I joined NS2 during this very recent free weekend. I'm a fond player of FPS' and RTS'. NS2 caught my eye for 1 reason... I thought that it looked like a cool, newer version of AVP2.
While playing AVP2 i used to play the runner constantly (anyone who played it will know why I thought NS2 looked promising)
So the first thing I did was jump in as aliens. the first thing I noticed was that while wall climbing and running on ceilings your view didn't flip upside down like i was expecting (still a little disappointed by that btw) you're upside down on the ceiling... why does it look like I'm clinging on with my scalp and not my feet :S
ANYONE complaining about marines hopping does in fact need to "L2P" (Sorry Farknut)... Now I'm not a great player by any means, and as a skulk you do die a lot... but as a low end alien shouldn't that be expected? my only complaint with NS2 so far is that alien spawn times are insane.
The Skulk is the lower lifeform... a marine upgrades his weapons, the aliens upgrade their lifeform.... a marine with 0 upgrades against an alien with 0 upgrades is (in my experience) a 50/50 fight. the marine has the advantage at range yes, but the Skulk has the advantage in melee... you sneak up on a marine hit 1 good clean hit followed by 2 glancing blows and they die... if you sneaked up properly they shouldn't have time to react.
So early game it IS 50/50, play your race... this isn't CoD.
later on yes Skulks can be killed easily without upgrades... but why wouldn't you use the upgrades available... they are free...and by that point you should be Lerk or Fade anyway...
In closing I personally don't think their is anything wrong with the Skulks. I just think that Skulk players got used to having an easy life and are now unhappy about skulks requiring a modicum of skill.
***** TL:DR *****
1: I'm new and am now addicted to NS2
2: L2P (sorry Farknut but its true)
3: Use teamwork and pick your fights... you are a creature designed to sneak and take the enemy by surprise... act like it.
Comments
I'am not a rookie in this game, i know how to play as skulk, im using my ears, shadows, silent movement, ceiling, walls, wall-jumping ... I'm waiting for the right moment to attack, jump from the ceiling and bite into neck of the victim ... but my victim just jumps from me a couple of meters and kills me. This is ridiculous.
So it was the same at NS1? Unfortunately I do not remember, it was a long time ago i played at NS1, about 10 years ago.
ps sorry for my bad english
Jump, 1 second wait, jump, 3 second...
This. I am by no means a pro skulk, but I know how it should be played, and generally did pretty decently before the last few builds. Every engagement now, I spend most of my time constantly catching up to marines that are leaping out of the way. I am starting to avoid aliens altogether because skulk is so absolutely unfun to play against decent marines. Please start trying some fixes for this asap.
ofcourse it was the same, only difference is u got the shit blown out of u from a pistol rather then lmg.
Or just fix the god damn collision. Besides skulks have air control, the little pricks can do a 180 with leap.
You may not be a rookie but you aren't a vet yet either. While I agree that skulks have it a little rougher than before I still find skulks relevant and potent throughout the whole game and I'm by no means a grand master. As far as Vets go I'm probably average at best.
1) Skulk hitboxes, especially while climbing on vertical surfaces, were fixed.
2) Ridiculous air control mechanics that allowed skulks to change direction on a dime were fixed.
3) Continual performance optimizations mean that a greater number of marines are able to shoot accurately.
These fixes constituted nerfs for many skulk players. The question is whether these changes are unfair, or whether the skulk is now broken, or whether marines have some distinct advantage.
Where I disagree with many people in this thread is that in making these changes, UWE has also made the skulk impossible or less fun to play. Laced throughout this discussion are hyperbolic assertions that it's "impossible" to kill marines when they juke-jump, that skulks are disadvantaged while at close range, and so on. These assertions aren't anywhere close to true.
I play the game routinely, and every ounce of my anecdotal evidence suggests that many of the scenarios described here simply don't occur if you're playing well. The skulk may have a slightly higher skill floor than the starting marine (slightly), but I'd argue that anyone who would take advantage of formerly broken air control mechanics probably didn't need to worry too much about that floor to begin with. There are countless ways to kill a marine who jumps defensively - again, the only real defensive maneuver a marine has - and they've been expressed many times in this thread. Like skulks, a marine can't change his direction mid-air. Once a skulk has leap, the skulk can change his direction mid-air. The skulk just can't change his direction mid-air while performing normal jumps, now.
When you get to melee range, do not try to chase a marine by mirroring his jumps. If a marine juke-jumps out of the way, you will not be able to leap to where he was standing and then be able to magically turn your direction mid-air without the help of leap. The old days are gone. When you glide by a marine, you give him time to shoot you.
People complaining about this are still attempting to do what they used to be able to do, and that's not a sign that skulk isn't fun, but rather that players aren't adapting. The game feels as close to balanced as it has since I began playing.
Wish you'd give it up with the l2p because honestly dude, you aren't even good. This isn't a l2p issue, so just stop.
Anyway, let's look at the progression of NS2.
>Game launched
>Marines walked around and shot skulks
>Smart marines realized that the more distance they create between themselves and the skulk, the easier it was to kill it.
>Enter marine hopping
Old Skulk:
>Extremely high air control.
>Easily could 1v1 w0a0 average marine (with hopping)
>Nerf removed some air control creating better early game marine:early game skulk balance
Thoughts:
Is the skulk perfectly balanced yet? No. Is the skulk balance better? Yes.
Attacking a marine who hops well is extremely frustrating so I see where a lot of these arguments are coming from. Do I personally feel that marine hopping is a little OP? Yes I do but it is something people can work with.
The thing I am not understanding is the arguments around constant jumping. The whole point of hopping when you are a marine is to create space between you and the target. If you see a solo skulk coming at you and you juke him with a random hop to the left, the space you create should easily give you enough time to kill it. No second hop needed. If you get ambushed by three skulks, hopping is normally not going to save you.
P.S. I like this idea.
Currently, Skulk movement only "rewards accurate biting" if you kill the Marine before he jumps. After that, no amount of accuracy helps you...
If accurate biting is to be rewarded, the glancing bite full damage area must get smaller (or damage as a whole reduced), not the Skulk harder to control.
And what's wrong with drawn out melee battles? Isn't that what is fun and gives more skill-based chances to both sides, as opposed to quick-kill or quick-death, which is more dependent on circumstances and luck?
Also, it seems the other downsides are just people afraid of the old random quantum Skulk, which has soooo much to do with (server) performance, hitboxes and hitreg (which were all fixed)... and almost nothing with Skulk movement itself.
Not sure why a higher Skulk acceleration would cause glitches though. Do you have any indication this is why the numbers were reduced so much (more than 50%!)? My impression was UWE simply wanted to err on side of Marines for all the new players, to prevent pre-240 stomps.
Again, my ideas how to fix this and, if needed, how to nerf Skulks some other way:
necessary:
- directly allow Skulks to keep up with hopping Marines
optional:
- less Skulk damage
- smaller full damage area, more glancing bites
- less Skulk HP
- whatever UWE can come up with, it's their job
How about Marine accel 100 and Skulk accel 100? Same number, but no Marine nerf.
See those quotes I listed, it mostly had to do with unpredictable movement and intentional or unintentional exploitation of animation oddities and their compounding impact.
Disagree, see above reply as well as feel free to search my posts in the past where i posted vids of well known animation issues that were inherent to that acceleration, as well as wall orientation issues.
I do believe this subject on the skulk having less control in close quarters was an unintentional byproduct of addressing the larger issue: the "quantum skulk" that you referenced.
Which... obviously was due to the previous numerical settings?
Evidenced by the fact that you can easily revert those numbers yourself and find the same level of quantum skulk behavior return - despite a lack of hitreg issues - along with the same level of inability to respond to such unpredictable and spastic movement amongst the non-top-tier-players.
That being said, after playing in the past 48 hours almost exclusively looking for evidence and frequency of this subject, I must admit that the skulk could be increased, and the marine could be decreased. (I realize its "fun" currently for the marine, just like it was for the "quantum skulk" previously, and that's important, but there are gradients, and at 100 you have some wiggle room - 95 doesnt feel unfun, so find that number.)
Edit: Try out the Balance Test mod and give feedback on that movement! Join the steam group for it to keep in the loop for matches. Its a whole new movement system and afaik is based off of idtech movement.
I really do think it's a bit of a L2PD issue, which is to say 'learn to play differently'. One skulk maneuver (changing direction while jumping) has been rendered far less effective given the recent changes, but I've experienced virtually no problematic changes elsewhere (post-241). A great marine will be able to make the most out of a single juke (as joshhh points out above), but 1) the juke can be anticipated based on initial positioning (yours and your target's) and 2) if the marine fails to kill you after creating distance, he should be dead immediately after. If you successfully ambush, your odds of victory go up even more.
I'm also mostly in agreement with the rest of joshhh says, actually, though I'd go to greater lengths to emphasize that the marine juking absolutely is something people can work with. The fact that it's more reliably effective at all now seems to be why people are so upset about it to begin with - this isn't something people had to deal with much in the past. But there's hardly consensus on this issue; the OP has plenty of people disagreeing with him.
What it comes down to is "playing against good players can be really frustrating," and that cuts both ways - marines and aliens. Of course, I don't think it's frustrating playing against amazing players, since learning how they do what they do 1) makes me better at doing the same thing and 2) better at countering.
Nerfing marine movement will reduce the fun of playing marine. It will also make dodging all the other alien classes more difficult. I think dodging the others right now is reasonably fair.
I don't think such a stat is publicly available, but if it were I would love to see the alien to marine K:D for 239, 240, 241/2/3.
It seems every game I play now the skulks get mashed regardless of who wins and most aliens will have a K:D of 0.5 at round end unless the teams were very unbalanced in terms of skill.
I agree with NousWanderer. But I think there is an element a lot of people are not considering.
I haven't played since day 1 of launch but to my knowledge marine movement has not been changed much or at all (or at least not nearly as often as skulk). So what this means is that as long as there are no changes Marines can constantly increase in skill, because their consistency is not being affected by change, adaptation, and relearning of basic movement. Therefore, marines have always continued to get better and maintained steady growth. As they should. Marines draw the most rookies just as it did with myself and many others. That is because they carry guns and this is predominately an FPS.
Now take the skulk. Skulk movement has constantly been tweaked. This means that alien lovers have continually had to adapt and relearn do to changes in the controls. Therefore the skulk skill level has been growing at an inconsistent rate. This means that an alien prone player and a marine prone player both starting at day 1 of launch have not had the same opportunity or growth rate. That is why skulk has been frustrating for alien players. Their controls are often changed.
I think this is the main element that is causing so much continuing concern with skulks. I'm not saying skulks don't matter in anyway. They along with Marines are the most important class in the game.
I think if skulks were left at a satisfactory place for a long enough period of time without any further changes we would see gameplay balance out in the long run.
Consider: this is entirely anecdotal, and entirely unremarkable, and entirely insufficient evidence for promoting changes of any kind. It doesn't mean skulks are overpowered or that marines are underpowered. It only means that five marines didn't do very well in crossroads once upon a time.
and for god sake when will we see a developer post here? they know? they plan to change anything? or I will have to just get used to it?
ps sorry for bad english
I don't need to respond to your points because, like I already said, all you've got are variations on "l2p" when that isn't the issue. I obviously don't use the same handle in game, and I've played many many games with you. Unfortunately I'm not your stalker though, sorry.
While playing AVP2 i used to play the runner constantly (anyone who played it will know why I thought NS2 looked promising)
So the first thing I did was jump in as aliens. the first thing I noticed was that while wall climbing and running on ceilings your view didn't flip upside down like i was expecting (still a little disappointed by that btw) you're upside down on the ceiling... why does it look like I'm clinging on with my scalp and not my feet :S
ANYONE complaining about marines hopping does in fact need to "L2P" (Sorry Farknut)... Now I'm not a great player by any means, and as a skulk you do die a lot... but as a low end alien shouldn't that be expected? my only complaint with NS2 so far is that alien spawn times are insane.
The Skulk is the lower lifeform... a marine upgrades his weapons, the aliens upgrade their lifeform.... a marine with 0 upgrades against an alien with 0 upgrades is (in my experience) a 50/50 fight. the marine has the advantage at range yes, but the Skulk has the advantage in melee... you sneak up on a marine hit 1 good clean hit followed by 2 glancing blows and they die... if you sneaked up properly they shouldn't have time to react.
So early game it IS 50/50, play your race... this isn't CoD.
later on yes Skulks can be killed easily without upgrades... but why wouldn't you use the upgrades available... they are free...and by that point you should be Lerk or Fade anyway...
In closing I personally don't think their is anything wrong with the Skulks. I just think that Skulk players got used to having an easy life and are now unhappy about skulks requiring a modicum of skill.
***** TL:DR *****
1: I'm new and am now addicted to NS2
2: L2P (sorry Farknut but its true)
3: Use teamwork and pick your fights... you are a creature designed to sneak and take the enemy by surprise... act like it.
Why is this a problem exactly?
because skulk is really not fun at all, up until you get adren/carapace/leap, at least.
What?