Yes his word is valuable, However - It's not a dev's word. A quality assured 5 second post from a Dev, Be it Orange pants, matso, charlie. It's alot more credible & will give peace to many viewers. Compared to someone who is "in the know" so to speak.
Let's be realistic though - It takes a significant amount of time for the devs to read through every post and even longer to respond to them. And for things like bugs? The PT Leads (Narfwak, Explosif.be, Ramblemoe, and myself) can respond and give you a more realistic and in-depth answer as to what we're actively looking at and working on. Obraxis is around as well, and Ironhorse, and they're both previous PT Leads who are still very much involved. SamusDroid does a LOT of the bug fixes, and he's answering questions. Samus can give you a better answer to a lot of these questions than most of the devs right now who are working on Subnautica. Saying that he is just "someone who is in the know" is a massive understatement.
Just because our posts aren't in yellow doesn't mean they're not correct or worthwhile. It's silly to me that anyone would try to diminish the posts from people who are actively working on & dealing with the game on a daily basis because it's not the right color. Come on now.
Just because our posts aren't in yellow doesn't mean they're not correct or worthwhile. It's silly to me that anyone would try to diminish the posts from people who are actively working on & dealing with the game on a daily basis because it's not the right color. Come on now.
This is accurate, and most of you guys are great. But is this situation representative of what is generally considered good PR? I don't think Nezz is saying that you guys are wrong or aren't valuable. But even just seeing a dev post on the forums at this point would be nice. Its starting to look a lot like UWE has given up on their game
Does it really take too much time to pull out your phone while you're sitting on the toilet or stuck in traffic or something and reply to a forum message or two?
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
*throws around some casual remarks about a official community manager and uwe not having one.*
But back to topic. I truly truly hope someone in uwe will rethink the patching, strongly, and realise that many fixes in one patch may not be the end of the world.
I've always found what Ironhorse, Samus, PT Leads and all the others who are close to the game's development good enough, if not better, than an "official" Dev post.
They have just as intimate a knowledge of what is being worked on (or possible to do), as well as having a similar view to the players (since they aren't financially invested in UWE). While they may be bound by NDAs and other legal nonsense, The only things they really cant tell us is when the next patch/piece of content is going to be released.
Maybe people would be happier if lead PTs and heavy contributors like Samus had gold boxes on the forums, but the truth is, there is not much that Cory or Hugh (who i've seen are the ones that usually reply) can tell us that they have not already.
So is another day going by without knowing what is going on at all?
I was just in a server where the rookies were ridiculously confused why the we had to wait 20 minutes for no reason on mineshaft on a non-admined server. If cooler heads did not prevail and more experienced players were not there, the rookies would probably just have left and given up.
I can imagine this has already happened in some games when the server switches to mineshaft that has not been fixed.
What samus means is, This game is a waste of money in it's current form. They aren't making anything from it any more & really couldn't care less. I mean a 5 second dev post stating that these bugs are being addressed would put everyone at ease. To hard i guess.
Well, it did take them months to start posting a changelog with patches . They actually thought it was a good idea to update a game as complicated as NS2 and expect people to happen to wander across changes (but mostly always just placebo). Which in hindsight is crazy considering all of the core gameplay mechanics they have changed or scrapped since.
SamusDroidColoradoJoin Date: 2013-05-13Member: 185219Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited April 2014
Bottom line is, while the current situation with NS2 is not ideal, UWE has good intentions, but there is a lot of unknown right now. While playtesters are not perfect and we occasionally do miss things, I can assure you one thing, I will do everything in my power to make sure that things are done correctly, things get done when they should, and ultimately, released bug free, no more silliness.
Bottom line is, while the current situation with NS2 is not ideal, UWE has good intentions, but there is a lot of unknown right now. While playtesters are not perfect and we occasionally do miss things...
This quote is so timeless you could've posted it a year ago, or probably a year in the future...
small or big hotfix. the thing is. UWE should not leave a "favourite" pub map unplayable for a long period of time while (expecting??????) community modders to fix it.
Not just that but expecting server operators to take the risk of placing a custom map on a server and play file not found roulette!?
Until they implement the simple workshop fix I have been requesting for months in the server section it is a risk that people simply can not take.
On another note given that the main hindrance of fixing problems is not the solutions themselves but the system by witch the solutions are implemented I would suggest that for their own sake and resource efficiency that UWE sit down and have a big internal think tank discussion on how to address this issue and create a process by with updates can be streamlined. I am sure there has to be a better, more cost and time efficient system of management to implement new builds so as to minimize cost in such a way as to allow a more rapid build cycle that can clear out these bugs in a reasonable amount of time.
It might cost time and money to plan and implement the changes that they come up with for their system by witch they build test and release patches but it will be well worth the investment. Not only will it make life easier going forward but improvements to patching will also help out their next game which is like all programing going to need patches after it releases to.
So UWE please give it some thought not just for NS2 but for all your future games, take up the challenge to focus on a way to fully optimize the building process so that we can have more cost and time efficient builds that lead thus to more bug fixes faster.
Also as far as cost goes with builds and not wanting hot fixes and as a result no big builds that run risk of needing one. What is cheaper a bunch of small builds or 1 big one with a hotfix. Even if you assume a hotfix your talking 2 builds to solve a lot of problems rather than a ton of small builds and given the costs are allegedly in the releasing of the patches it would seam to me at least that big patch anf hot fix is the way to go. But obviously there is no way for me to known.
This is what a good changelog looks like (from LoL)
Annie
Summary: Pyromania’s stun duration is now shorter at earlier levels but Summon: Tibbers’ cooldown has been reduced at later levels to compensate.
Annie’s a terrifying kid to play against in the early phases of the game – even before Tibbers joins the party– mostly due to her long duration stun at level 1. With these changes, we want to give Annie’s lane opponents some more room to breathe against her early threat, but we’ve given Tibbers more late game playtime to compensate. This should lessen a bit of Annie’s power without incinerating her overall strengths.
Passive - Pyromania
Stun duration now scales 1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds at levels 1/6/11 (from 1.75 seconds at all levels)
R - Summon Tibbers
Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 seconds (from 120 at all ranks)
was there any time you decided that hey, maby we should adress this issue in DOCKING FIXED BUILD:
Or was it never concidered a "Critical docking exploit", since u fixed all those apperantly...
Maby its held back for a final third Qlimatic fix in 265, where we all can play docking as we used to?
was there any time you decided that hey, maby we should adress this issue in DOCKING FIXED BUILD:
Or was it never concidered a Critical docking exploit, since u fixed all those apperantly...
Maby its held back for a final third Qlimatic fix in 265, where we all can play docking as we used to?
A marine can climb up there, working as intended. :P
i know you can climb on the overpass then on the tilted window, but that does not justify sudden bilebombing trough a solid roof becouse noticing it then dealing with it takes around 20 seconds to run there, by that time u can take down 5 structurses depending if they are placed noobish or not
What I find frustrating about this is that the diligent and excellent work done for free by @samusdroid, the playtesters, and other community members (such as Mendasp), doesn't seem to be taken on board by UWE. Samusdroid has fixed so many bugs within a ridiculously short time of them coming out, yet still here we are with the vast majority of servers STILL blighted by these bugs.
That UWE seems to ignore these issues that have totally broken pub play on mineshaft (amongst others) wouldn't be quite so bad if it were possible to get all server operators to run a single, big community mod (ie run by samus). However, this isn't a working solution. Many server ops are unaware that a fix is even available, and now we're in a situation with lots of rookies seeing a broken game again.
This was totally avoidable by UWE issuing a hotfix incorporating the fixes that samusdroid has already implemented.
I love this game, and I have supported UWE and will continue to support them. But please stop frustrating us all: we can see a fix for a problem, but you don't let samusdroid fix it for everyone or take over his fixes and implement them yourselves! It's like being chained so you can't quite reach the key - you can see precisely how you could get out, but the set-up is such that you will never be able to. That's the level of frustration I feel, and whether or not that is justified, the fact that hardcore NS/NS2 fans are on here saying these things should be ringing some seriously big alarm bells in the UWE offices right now.
Yes his word is valuable, However - It's not a dev's word. A quality assured 5 second post from a Dev, Be it Orange pants, matso, charlie. It's alot more credible & will give peace to many viewers. Compared to someone who is "in the know" so to speak.
Let's be realistic though - It takes a significant amount of time for the devs to read through every post and even longer to respond to them. And for things like bugs? The PT Leads (Narfwak, Explosif.be, Ramblemoe, and myself) can respond and give you a more realistic and in-depth answer as to what we're actively looking at and working on. Obraxis is around as well, and Ironhorse, and they're both previous PT Leads who are still very much involved. SamusDroid does a LOT of the bug fixes, and he's answering questions. Samus can give you a better answer to a lot of these questions than most of the devs right now who are working on Subnautica. Saying that he is just "someone who is in the know" is a massive understatement.
Just because our posts aren't in yellow doesn't mean they're not correct or worthwhile. It's silly to me that anyone would try to diminish the posts from people who are actively working on & dealing with the game on a daily basis because it's not the right color. Come on now.
Realistic? go look at that stupid tattoo post where 2 devs have posted. I'm being very realistic. There flat out ignoring it & expecting community members to pick up there slack (Huge thanks to those involved)
Don't for a second think i don't acknowledge & hold certain people that help the community in high regards.
Yes his word is valuable, However - It's not a dev's word. A quality assured 5 second post from a Dev, Be it Orange pants, matso, charlie. It's alot more credible & will give peace to many viewers. Compared to someone who is "in the know" so to speak.
Let's be realistic though - It takes a significant amount of time for the devs to read through every post and even longer to respond to them. And for things like bugs? The PT Leads (Narfwak, Explosif.be, Ramblemoe, and myself) can respond and give you a more realistic and in-depth answer as to what we're actively looking at and working on. Obraxis is around as well, and Ironhorse, and they're both previous PT Leads who are still very much involved. SamusDroid does a LOT of the bug fixes, and he's answering questions. Samus can give you a better answer to a lot of these questions than most of the devs right now who are working on Subnautica. Saying that he is just "someone who is in the know" is a massive understatement.
Just because our posts aren't in yellow doesn't mean they're not correct or worthwhile. It's silly to me that anyone would try to diminish the posts from people who are actively working on & dealing with the game on a daily basis because it's not the right color. Come on now.
Realistic? go look at that stupid tattoo post where 2 devs have posted. I'm being very realistic. There flat out ignoring it & expecting community members to pick up there slack (Huge thanks to those involved)
Don't for a second think i don't acknowledge & hold certain people that help the community in high regards.
Frustrating at best
Yes, it's a communication issue. See "27 days" for another recent example.
was there any time you decided that hey, maby we should adress this issue in DOCKING FIXED BUILD:
Or was it never concidered a "Critical docking exploit", since u fixed all those apperantly...
Maby its held back for a final third Qlimatic fix in 265, where we all can play docking as we used to?
This has been attempted to be fixed multiple times, I'll make sure it's fixed correctly this time.
ScatterJoin Date: 2012-09-02Member: 157341Members, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2014
Indeed, the yellow posts are an aspect of keeping up appearances. Even giving people the illusion that they still read the posts and care about the game, rather than having minions do it for them, is an important aspect of keeping the community happy.
I know many of the PTs are in the know yet why am I happier when I read a post from Cory or Matso than when I read the same information from a PT? It's not because I think the PTs are clueless, it's because I've been given the illusion that I have access to the devs rather them sitting on top of mount Olympus as can be the case often.
Just give Samus n the rest of the crew some yellow. Otherwise, some people won't realize that people ARE working on the bugs/game, and they do, in fact, respond. Just not many of the devs.
Just give Samus n the rest of the crew some yellow. Otherwise, some people won't realize that people ARE working on the bugs/game, and they do, in fact, respond. Just not many of the devs.
Better yet, after the clearly talented dude did so much, why not hire him formally? :P
Well, since everyone is piling on the complaints, I might as well throw one more in. Any chance we can fix the view server info? It's been broken for a while now it just shows unkown for all player names.
What I find frustrating about this is that the diligent and excellent work done for free by @samusdroid, the playtesters, and other community members (such as Mendasp), doesn't seem to be taken on board by UWE. Samusdroid has fixed so many bugs within a ridiculously short time of them coming out, yet still here we are with the vast majority of servers STILL blighted by these bugs.
That UWE seems to ignore these issues that have totally broken pub play on mineshaft (amongst others) wouldn't be quite so bad if it were possible to get all server operators to run a single, big community mod (ie run by samus). However, this isn't a working solution. Many server ops are unaware that a fix is even available, and now we're in a situation with lots of rookies seeing a broken game again.
This was totally avoidable by UWE issuing a hotfix incorporating the fixes that samusdroid has already implemented.
I love this game, and I have supported UWE and will continue to support them. But please stop frustrating us all: we can see a fix for a problem, but you don't let samusdroid fix it for everyone or take over his fixes and implement them yourselves! It's like being chained so you can't quite reach the key - you can see precisely how you could get out, but the set-up is such that you will never be able to. That's the level of frustration I feel, and whether or not that is justified, the fact that hardcore NS/NS2 fans are on here saying these things should be ringing some seriously big alarm bells in the UWE offices right now.
the problem is more so that using the fix risks the file not found error on your server which will occur at least once a week if your lucky. Any solution that requires using the workshop without a solution for the problems with the workshop is not a solution unless said solution also includes people to sit next to the reset button on your server 24/7 for when the workshop breaks it.
Well, since everyone is piling on the complaints, I might as well throw one more in. Any chance we can fix the view server info? It's been broken for a while now it just shows unkown for all player names.
This here is exactly why devs don't "pull out their phone and make a 2 minute post", because people don't read. I specifically said in my post the status of this bug, and other places multiple times yet people keep asking. The amount of people who actually read the post, and the amount of people who understand the post and the amount of people who take something away from it, is not worth their time. You may disagree with me but that is pretty much what I've been told by a dev.
People say that UWE are "ignoring bugs" which is not the case. In its current state it's either
1) I don't know how to fix it
2) I don't have engine access to fix it and other devs are busy working on other things and can't be pulled off to fix ns2
3) Someone says the bug is being looked at yet because it wasn't said by UWE and spread by PR, people either don't see it, or just ignore it.
Some things may have been put off until later, but nothing in the like 6 months I have been doing this have I seen something just ignored just because.
We had a playtester who had a good fix for the workshop issues but I don't know what happened with it. It never got finished.
Just give Samus n the rest of the crew some yellow. Otherwise, some people won't realize that people ARE working on the bugs/game, and they do, in fact, respond. Just not many of the devs.
It doesn't work that easily, as then everything a person like me says, is officially interpreted as UWE saying it, and extra attention. While I wouldn't decline if I was offered it, it would mean I would have to be more careful to what I say and how I say it so it doesn't reflect poorly on UWE (which I do anyways)
That is nice to hear that someone at least attempted to fix the workshop issue. Hopefully, one day work on it will resume and we can at least trust that the workshop will not lock our server up.
Comments
Let's be realistic though - It takes a significant amount of time for the devs to read through every post and even longer to respond to them. And for things like bugs? The PT Leads (Narfwak, Explosif.be, Ramblemoe, and myself) can respond and give you a more realistic and in-depth answer as to what we're actively looking at and working on. Obraxis is around as well, and Ironhorse, and they're both previous PT Leads who are still very much involved. SamusDroid does a LOT of the bug fixes, and he's answering questions. Samus can give you a better answer to a lot of these questions than most of the devs right now who are working on Subnautica. Saying that he is just "someone who is in the know" is a massive understatement.
Just because our posts aren't in yellow doesn't mean they're not correct or worthwhile. It's silly to me that anyone would try to diminish the posts from people who are actively working on & dealing with the game on a daily basis because it's not the right color. Come on now.
This is accurate, and most of you guys are great. But is this situation representative of what is generally considered good PR? I don't think Nezz is saying that you guys are wrong or aren't valuable. But even just seeing a dev post on the forums at this point would be nice. Its starting to look a lot like UWE has given up on their game
Does it really take too much time to pull out your phone while you're sitting on the toilet or stuck in traffic or something and reply to a forum message or two?
But back to topic. I truly truly hope someone in uwe will rethink the patching, strongly, and realise that many fixes in one patch may not be the end of the world.
They have just as intimate a knowledge of what is being worked on (or possible to do), as well as having a similar view to the players (since they aren't financially invested in UWE). While they may be bound by NDAs and other legal nonsense, The only things they really cant tell us is when the next patch/piece of content is going to be released.
Maybe people would be happier if lead PTs and heavy contributors like Samus had gold boxes on the forums, but the truth is, there is not much that Cory or Hugh (who i've seen are the ones that usually reply) can tell us that they have not already.
I was just in a server where the rookies were ridiculously confused why the we had to wait 20 minutes for no reason on mineshaft on a non-admined server. If cooler heads did not prevail and more experienced players were not there, the rookies would probably just have left and given up.
I can imagine this has already happened in some games when the server switches to mineshaft that has not been fixed.
Boing boing, those remarks are just bouncing everywhere right now!
This quote is so timeless you could've posted it a year ago, or probably a year in the future...
Not just that but expecting server operators to take the risk of placing a custom map on a server and play file not found roulette!?
Until they implement the simple workshop fix I have been requesting for months in the server section it is a risk that people simply can not take.
It might cost time and money to plan and implement the changes that they come up with for their system by witch they build test and release patches but it will be well worth the investment. Not only will it make life easier going forward but improvements to patching will also help out their next game which is like all programing going to need patches after it releases to.
So UWE please give it some thought not just for NS2 but for all your future games, take up the challenge to focus on a way to fully optimize the building process so that we can have more cost and time efficient builds that lead thus to more bug fixes faster.
Also as far as cost goes with builds and not wanting hot fixes and as a result no big builds that run risk of needing one. What is cheaper a bunch of small builds or 1 big one with a hotfix. Even if you assume a hotfix your talking 2 builds to solve a lot of problems rather than a ton of small builds and given the costs are allegedly in the releasing of the patches it would seam to me at least that big patch anf hot fix is the way to go. But obviously there is no way for me to known.
Summary: Pyromania’s stun duration is now shorter at earlier levels but Summon: Tibbers’ cooldown has been reduced at later levels to compensate.
Annie’s a terrifying kid to play against in the early phases of the game – even before Tibbers joins the party– mostly due to her long duration stun at level 1. With these changes, we want to give Annie’s lane opponents some more room to breathe against her early threat, but we’ve given Tibbers more late game playtime to compensate. This should lessen a bit of Annie’s power without incinerating her overall strengths.
Passive - Pyromania
Stun duration now scales 1.25/1.5/1.75 seconds at levels 1/6/11 (from 1.75 seconds at all levels)
R - Summon Tibbers
Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 seconds (from 120 at all ranks)
Just sayin'
Or was it never concidered a "Critical docking exploit", since u fixed all those apperantly...
Maby its held back for a final third Qlimatic fix in 265, where we all can play docking as we used to?
A marine can climb up there, working as intended. :P
That UWE seems to ignore these issues that have totally broken pub play on mineshaft (amongst others) wouldn't be quite so bad if it were possible to get all server operators to run a single, big community mod (ie run by samus). However, this isn't a working solution. Many server ops are unaware that a fix is even available, and now we're in a situation with lots of rookies seeing a broken game again.
This was totally avoidable by UWE issuing a hotfix incorporating the fixes that samusdroid has already implemented.
I love this game, and I have supported UWE and will continue to support them. But please stop frustrating us all: we can see a fix for a problem, but you don't let samusdroid fix it for everyone or take over his fixes and implement them yourselves! It's like being chained so you can't quite reach the key - you can see precisely how you could get out, but the set-up is such that you will never be able to. That's the level of frustration I feel, and whether or not that is justified, the fact that hardcore NS/NS2 fans are on here saying these things should be ringing some seriously big alarm bells in the UWE offices right now.
Realistic? go look at that stupid tattoo post where 2 devs have posted. I'm being very realistic. There flat out ignoring it & expecting community members to pick up there slack (Huge thanks to those involved)
Don't for a second think i don't acknowledge & hold certain people that help the community in high regards.
Frustrating at best
Yes, it's a communication issue. See "27 days" for another recent example.
This has been attempted to be fixed multiple times, I'll make sure it's fixed correctly this time.
I know many of the PTs are in the know yet why am I happier when I read a post from Cory or Matso than when I read the same information from a PT? It's not because I think the PTs are clueless, it's because I've been given the illusion that I have access to the devs rather them sitting on top of mount Olympus as can be the case often.
Better yet, after the clearly talented dude did so much, why not hire him formally? :P
the problem is more so that using the fix risks the file not found error on your server which will occur at least once a week if your lucky. Any solution that requires using the workshop without a solution for the problems with the workshop is not a solution unless said solution also includes people to sit next to the reset button on your server 24/7 for when the workshop breaks it.
This here is exactly why devs don't "pull out their phone and make a 2 minute post", because people don't read. I specifically said in my post the status of this bug, and other places multiple times yet people keep asking. The amount of people who actually read the post, and the amount of people who understand the post and the amount of people who take something away from it, is not worth their time. You may disagree with me but that is pretty much what I've been told by a dev.
People say that UWE are "ignoring bugs" which is not the case. In its current state it's either
1) I don't know how to fix it
2) I don't have engine access to fix it and other devs are busy working on other things and can't be pulled off to fix ns2
3) Someone says the bug is being looked at yet because it wasn't said by UWE and spread by PR, people either don't see it, or just ignore it.
Some things may have been put off until later, but nothing in the like 6 months I have been doing this have I seen something just ignored just because.
We had a playtester who had a good fix for the workshop issues but I don't know what happened with it. It never got finished.
It doesn't work that easily, as then everything a person like me says, is officially interpreted as UWE saying it, and extra attention. While I wouldn't decline if I was offered it, it would mean I would have to be more careful to what I say and how I say it so it doesn't reflect poorly on UWE (which I do anyways)