@IronHorse
You log into the CC with E like normaly since you cannot enter what is not build ^^ beside that would interference with the alienbuild key B to enter the hive otherwise...
Edit: sorry had to edit my post serval times after i was thinking it completly trough Nordic you might wanna unagree
some things i would like to see that might not actually fit well into this thread though.
1. alien com can highlight a tunnel system, when highlighted it glows to the aliens and appears a different colour on the minimap allowing aliens to quickly spot the correct tunnel to use.
2. the logout of command chair button located better and more visible, often i see rookies jump in the com chair and get kicked from the server because they cant figure out how to log out.
3. a lock on the command chair if you are a rookie option built into the server options.
4. red names for players with 500+ hours of play time. Encourages people to keep playing and also allows players to quickly scan a score board for experienced players clumped on 1 team.
5. different grades of commander badge, which quickly reflect the experience of a commander. Encourages people to play commander and rewards those who command often.
6. marine commander can change the rotation of the phase gate jumps from clockwise to anti clockwise. Essentially reversing the current order.
7. the cloak for aliens is to noticeable when sneaking at lvl 3. Needs to be better.
8. obs and scans cannot detect aliens that move slowly or who are stationary with aura evolution. This is partly to make shade hive more desirable.
9. Any experimental content can be added to the game with a 4 tech point to unlock. This means it wouldn't imbalance the game. Think HMGs, nukes etc..
Thiis gives us all fun things to play with and test without ruining the core gameplay.
I think some of the changes you're planig are gamebreaking ^^ no cysts? easier to kill powernodes? a server wide alarm that armor 2 is up? ... no! and some stuff pll suggesting here is SO off ^^. It took a LOOONG time to get the balance to this point, don't mess with gamplay elements.
some ideas (like making a big Logout button, half screen size) are obsolete. there ARE systems in place that allow rookie comm blocks and if some one is in and doesn't know how to get out?.. well.. tell him/her! there are 2 voip systems in place in the game. a shortcut would be nice tho (logout BTN).
I totally like the other Ideas... Make it more flashy and polished. Maybe increase the range of orders you can issue throughout the game. ... Push here... deffend this... or an arsenal of alerts you can fire off.. like all to the gates allert... or powernode under attack... DON'T automate them tho. chewing on a powernode unnoticed and getting away with it is part of untouchable gameplay. Maybe a bigger varietey of visual feedback for the comm than a once per minute ping per team member. ... I like the "we need more resouces" from the gorge for instance. like.. go to the red marker from player X on the map. and you as comm can link ppl to these Markers so the arrows show up on the floor AND the Map in the color of the maker
I do aggree with the meds tho.. make it a bit more forgiving and less sticky to walls ^^ ... if the geometry is seethrough a med shouldn't get hung up on it, killing ppl in the process.
oh.. just got one... how about a server wide taunt for Oni and Fades?.. make it optional for the player if they wanna strike fear in the hearts of thier enemys or keeping it strategically hidden till 3 Oni rape a base out of the blue.
right now the onos taunt is a lower volume stomp. a real one and the server wide roar would be great that you hear echoing through the corridors.
Also some of the compmod ideas are great.. like an out medable onos or HMGs ... but PLEASE ... put in a better sound!!! @ HMGs
oooh.. and could you up the displayable name text on the score board? some names get cut off and there is LOADS of room on an HD resolution
I'm so sorry for all the new folks and the horribly awful time they're having learning a new game. I'm being absolutely facetious.
Look, I played marines for 6 months before finally giving aliens a serious go. The first two (2) times I tried alien play, I died almost instantly after spawning. I ran on the floor straight at marines just like everyone else did at first. I hated it and returned to marines after a few deaths. The reason I started with marines is due to my old school background in Doom, Quake, and Unreal. NS2 marines felt very familiar, even though I had to learn to reload, call for meds/ammo, request weld, use a flashlight and a map. All of which I never had to use in Quake or Unreal. NS2's general movement and lack of iron sight made me feel at home, hence 6 months of marine play. It took me another 6 months of work with aliens while continuing to play as a marine. NS2 has made me a better player at most every game. I've gained keyboard dexterity and further improved my aiming. Alien play helped me with tactical decisions and patients.
It's hard work to play this game. For some it comes natural. It is now somewhat natural for me - if not natural, it's very familiar and comfortable when I play. The million dollar question would be, are new players going to stick with it and invest upwards of 1,000-3,000+ hours as some of us have. I'm really not sure how to simplify the game or even if it should be. The complexity may just be the very thing that is rewarding to those who have mastered it. It keeps us coming back to this game. Take away complexity and you may not have as may folks with those 1,000+ hours who are still excited to play the game.
What can be done? We may want to possibly reward those who play the base game and stick with it for a while. Perhaps an achievement system would entice new players. If you were to achieve so many kills, points, or hours, you would be allowed to unlock the "Shadow/Knight/King/Queen/ Fade." This could be applied to all lifeforms with various names and slightly different looks/colors, or perhaps taunts, etc. Marines could benefit from this system as well. It would be entirely possible to play comp with players of different achievements as well. For example, 2,000+ hour marines could unlock a dark grey digital pattern skin with grey/black helmet...a very tatical-looking marine. Those with 2,500-3,000hrs would receive black armor similar to today's black armor. These are just examples of course. Obviously a time allowance may not be the best approach, but perhaps points or total kills would be better. I'm not sure and only brainstorming.
Final thought: I never scoffed at the hard work and great fun to learn the game. It's frustrates me that we have to accommodate those who can't or wont take the time to play it, learn it, and love it. Maybe we just don't need those folks in the community after all. However, if NS2 is going to completely fizzle without critical intervention and imagination focused on "inclusiveness", than I suppose it's okay to try.
Btw, I'm 50yrs old now and still play like I'm one of the 18-25yr olds...I have a 25yr old son. I feel like a kid most days, especially when playing NS2.
I think some of the changes you're planig are gamebreaking ^^ no cysts? easier to kill powernodes? a server wide alarm that armor 2 is up? ... no! and some stuff pll suggesting here is SO off ^^. It took a LOOONG time to get the balance to this point, don't mess with gamplay elements.
What makes you think the current 'balance' or gameplay is working? Just because it is stable / hasn't changed much recently and that the 200/300 odd daily players are used to it doesn't mean there aren't issues within the core gameplay.
A head-in-the-sand approach to the ideas being suggested in this thread and the google doc isn't going to change the fact that these issues need to be addressed if the game is to retain more players.
Change is scary, but it often leads to better outcomes.
What would be the purpose of keeping the powernodes in the game if they are no longer required for buildings to function. It seems like they will never be built or destroyed.
My idea there was for the aesthetics only - You'd still want the lights on so you get better vision for marines. But you're right on the whole there, they really wouldn't have a true "point"... you could also remove them completely but it'd be a bit of a waste of the whole power system (which I was trying to avoid).
I never understood as an invading hostile alien force, why would you leave the lights on to the whole facility to begin with? How about we knock all the lights off around the entire map APART from marine start and both marine naturals but make power nodes repairable in 1/2 the time.
This may help to counter really strong marine play at the beginning as aliens essentially have to rely on the environment to have any real good counter to a highly skilled marine.
Aliens need darkness and the ability to ambush, it makes ambushing such a chore if one was to opt to hide behind a door in a brightly lit room, bring back horror into games, make it absolutely terrifying to 1 vs 1 an alien.
When I play against aliens I don't feel fear at all when I engage skulks, I feel they are something that's just in the way, I don't FEAR them. @rantology make us FEAR aliens again
I probably should never have included values in that suggestion.. everyone keeps focusing on those instead of the concept of those 3 main points, and those values are not concrete whatsoever, just examples. *shrug*
The one thing I am positive that Exosuits need though are increased mobility and possibly increased accessibility now that they can't be beaconed again. The cost vs reward just isn't adequate for Exos currently imo
Look.. Iron.. Horse. Whatever kind of name that is. Is that like a reference to Troy or something? Your "document" should contain only hard facts and things that are to be taken seriously. None of this "conceptual" garbage. I want the right changes and I want it to be balanced perfectly. And I also want it by next patch.
I think removing the building restriction of power nodes and infestation would be fun.
I don't agree with the idea that marines can't med/ammo in unpowered rooms though, that would make pushing forward impossible. Nanoshield/catpacks, sure why not. remove sentry battery and tie them to room power. arcs require power to fire but not move maybe. drifters can only be built on infestation. drifter abilities and crag/shift more potent on infestation maybe? structure abilities (heal wave, ink, echo) only available on infestation.
I would like to see rooms to be a bit darker with unbuilt power and for power on/destroyed to be the same as it is now. let infestation darken the lights in a room, as if it spreads onto the light sources.
A tutorial with a skulk section for basic movement mechanics (reach the speed of X) would be nice. maybe throw in a bot who is specially designed to track skulks really well on the ground near walking speed, and reduce its accuracy the higher their speed making walljumping necessary. "Beat this bot 5 times!" with each round in a different room or something. Make a skin for those who complete the tutorial. Make a section in that character-skin-menu we have to see all the locked skins with a explanation on how to unlock it ("Complete the tutorial"). people love that.
Most of the things in this document have been heavily discussed many times in the past. Nothing major has ever been implemented or tested even when the CDT was completely heading NS2's development and a balance team existed that was in favor of the general goal of simplification and most of the specific ideas you've listed.
Now that UWE is back involved, it all seems even less likely that any of this would possibly ever eventuate.
Basically this has all been said a million times at this point. Yes NS2 is overly complex, yes removing the gameplay implications of elements such as infestation, power nodes, blah blah blah would help. Everybody already knows and has talked about it to death over the years. Just going to get the same answers by reopening the discussion. Will anything actually change this time around?
In general the key question to me is whether there is genuine intention to work patiently long term with NS2 and keep improving and polishing it as whole. If it's just going to be fireworks with huge changes and then some DLC hats or whatever, you can already stop thinking about the overall accessibility and just go with the stuff you've got for the last hurrah.
Meanwhile if there's an attempt to actually rebuild NS2 and make it flourish, there's a plenty of mundane work to do that has been discussed numerous times already. Look no further than the main menu options window. After the few cursory tabs you've got, it's still an almost unsorted mess without any kind of clear segments or whatever. If you actually want to make NS2 accessible, you need to commit into cleaning up stuff like that throughout the game. Someone has to sit down and think about the core concepts and when and how they're represented in the game and then readjust options, HUD, sounds, particle effects and feedback and so on. It's a lot of subtle things that take time to get right, but as far as I can tell, that's what it takes to make NS2 a more accessible experience.
The big question right now is whether there's actually enough commitment and patience to sit down and work on NS2 with a long term plan rather than just slapping in extra features and whatever else there might be.
Edit: And this is not excluding the necessity of bigger changes either. It's just that even those are not going to cut unless there's proper long term commitment.
What makes you think the current 'balance' or gameplay is working?
like I said... it took a looooooong time to come that far. if you change one lil thingie, like powernode HP, 3 intertwined gamemechanics will break. for instance... powernodes need a specific time to be bitten, right?!... so the maps are layed out that the naturals are saveable in a time window. if you lower the HP you either need to redeign the maps or up the walking speed for the rines, wich would break stuff again even worse. both is a rediculas amount of work that's allready been done! lets focus on some features that ENHANCE the experience.
What makes you think the current 'balance' or gameplay is working?
like I said... it took a looooooong time to come that far. if you change on lil thingie, like powernode HP, 3 intertwined gamemechanics will break. for instance... powernodes need a specific time to be bitten, right?!... so the maps are layed out that the naturals are saveable in a time window. if you lower the HP you either need to redeign the maps or up the walking speed for the rines, wich would break stuff again even worse. both is a rediculas amount of work that's allready been done! lets focus on some features that ENHANCE the experience.
Change is scary, but it often leads to better outcomes.
the game IS so loved due to it's complexety! let's not dumb it down. let's smart people up!
Yeah and I don't think tweaking small values here and there is going to yield the desired effect. The game has fundamental issues that need to be fixed that have been band-aided over for the past three years and requires a considerable overhaul akin to Sewlek's balance mod but in this instance it would be a PDT redesign mod. Removing the need to chomp on power nodes or have to rebuild them without a welder would, for example, be enhancing the experience.
I seriously don't think bonage is suggesting we dumb the experience down but some truths have to be recognised; the game has layers of unnecessary complexity in mechanics that don't actually add to the experience and infact detract. Case in point is damage types which at near 5000 hours of ns2 game and modding time I couldn't accurately tell you every single damage type and its associated damage multiplier. So how the heck can it be expected that a casual or even regular player know this stuff?
Even 3 years after release I still see mid to high end players in terms of mechanical skill have a complete lack of awareness of some of the soft timers in the game that marines have to constantly be aware of lest they want to have pve and onos in their face for days. This is not the sort of thing I want to stay in the game and after 3 years of it being an unaddressed problem I think it's time to fix it. I am also glad that the Spores cropduster experiment is finally coming to a close after 3 years of what is obviously a poorly designed ability.
LokiJoin Date: 2012-07-07Member: 153973Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
edited December 2015
If powernodes were to be removed and infestation now spreads from buildings, could it be made so once the infestation touches a light (entity) etc, then it could either start to flicker and or go red.
/ use flamethrowers to clear out the infestation or kill the building generating the infestation to return the room / lights to normal?
Two of the most common confusions I see for new players:
- When do I use the welder and when the builder?
- How do I change my lifeform as an alien.
Fixes:
- Make the welder a builder replacement. Hold E to weld just like you would to build. Tweak values such that it is superior to the builder in all cases.
- Change the "Buy" key on armory and protolab to "B." This solves the conflict with buying from a damaged armory when you have a welder equipped, and teaches the player about the B key so that it isn't a surprise when they are on the alien team. They would trigger it accidentally by walking up to a structure and pressing B like they are used to on an armory.
I love this idea since it would also solve the problem involving a group of marines blocking each other when welding the same object (e.g. a broken power node). This happens quite often on larger servers.
I would change Buy from B to V, though. It's strange how games still set important, often-used hotkeys to hard-to-reach ones by default. While you're at it, set the most important inputs to hotkeys that are closer to WASD and move less important ones further away. I guess you could go the extra mile and set the movements keys to ESDF. The point is that these default keybindings would teach or at least guide rookies toward good habits and offer ease of use right off the bat. When I learned about optimizing keybindings, it made all games much more easier and fluid to play. I have no idea how I managed to play games in the past that bound Map to M and whatnot by default. It's a bit subjective which inputs should go to which keys, though. It's ultimately up to the player, but I find these to be the most important inputs that should be closest to the movement keys:
Weapon1
Weapon2
Use
ShowMap
Reload
MovementModifier
Weapon3
Weapon4
Crouch (MouseButton3 for me, but you get the point)
Inputs like RequestHealth/Ammo/Order/Weld, ToggleFlashlight, Buy, VoiceChat, etc. are further away from my movement keys, but still within easy reach. Move the LastUpgrades key even further away so that the player does not accidentally press it when he/she does not mean to. Still super-handy to use after respawning, though.
I've thought about what gameplay would be like if grenades were replaced with ammo types instead. It could be something you pick at the armory, or maybe expendable ammo "charges" you trigger as needed. I haven't really thought about if it would be simpler or balanced, just an idea I had. Grenades are kinda lame and it might be a neat tradeoff. Or just put nades in underbarrel tubes and call it a day.
Removing the need to chomp on power nodes or have to rebuild them without a welder would, for example, be enhancing the experience.
hahaha.. wtf.. did you ever play the game man? ^^ I mean REALLY... 7v7 with competent ppl?
removing cysts and powernodes is SO rediculas of an idea that I thought it wouldn't need atention, but you guys seem serious about it.
also .. do you NEED this knowledge about soft timers and damage types to play the game? .. or simply know that a fade is a rine killer and almost usless agains armored structures?
this gracefull and beautifull dance of mechanics that give us the best multiplayer experience of our lives shouldn't be tempered with ... at least not if you try to take AWAY stuff... im fine with adding new mechanics that compliment the established ones. Just explain them!
take away mechanics, dumb it down and the dance will devolve into a 4/4 Sidestep move that goes on forever... not fun to watch (that's important if you wanna make it more popular) and most certanly not fun to play...
When i first started to play, the obvious question was: what are the abilities for (aliens and marines), what is the main goal and how do you play as a team. This game is very complex, and you learn it by getting insulted some times. I really understand new players, just getting out. I'm still not very skilled or not skilled at all. But at least i can now enjoy it a bit because i understand basic mechanics. But i still don't know what are all the upgrades are for. I feel the best way to learn that would be to play as a commander but there is no way of training so being a commander on a server is not likely going to happen.. The RTS part of the game, is just a FPS in the new player mind. This is why introduction need to start with a commander tutorial or something, i really don't see how you could get people smarter if all they are aware of is the "shoot the alien" or "cut in pieces the marine". In this way they would know from the beginning what are the main capabilities and why is this game more a strategic game than just a shooter game.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
I dont think powernodes are part of the problem...
The problem is that people die without understanding why, that the time to kill is sooo short that no mistake is allowed.
This ties into the problem that higher lifeforms are hard to play, but for example a fade costs that much, that you likely only have one shot at it during a game.
I think those are the biggest issues, the dying without knowing why and not being able to use higher lifeforms and tech because of it.
powernodes etc are stuff people can understand. i doubt its what is holding back people from playing ns2
FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
I've mentioned this before as well @Asraniel I don't agree with actually changing the game so you get more lifeforms, but an official gameplay mode where you can get x people in a server and play an arena tournament that you all vote on would be great fun.
Vote on weapon levels, alien upgrades, lifeforms, which gun, etc. Then just play 1v1s, watching others to learn, and trying new things to win fights.
Would work great in other formats too. 2v2, 3v2, 2v3, 1v3.
Can the onos kill the 3 armor 2 LMG marines before dying? etc..
it all depends on the server you play on and how currated it is.
that's how we treat ppl on Hellarious Basterds
@mattji104 there are servers that have the pregamePlus enabled for exactly that reason. it's the dickarroundmode you can buy anything, evolve to anything and if you have a sparring partner it can be great for training.
aeroripperJoin Date: 2005-02-25Member: 42471NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
I don't think powernodes/cysts are part of the problem (they're an interesting part of the game and don't need changed). Player tutorials should teach skulk players to ambush a lot and not run straight ahead at marines. Teach them how to be 'skulky' by walking silently and using stealth to their advantage. A much improved in-game tutorial system should be implemented instead for each alien class:
1) It would show good ambushing positions via a ghost outline in every room when player is skulk. It would be orange if the player was moving around loudly, and green if they're silent.
Similar intuitive guides would aid in educated rookies about each class they're playing in real time during a normal game.
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
@moultano Killing floor 2 has the ability to hold 'e' for example on context cues to automatically switch to/use the welder but it still has a weaponslot selection available for it, the same should be done for ns2 in my opinion.
Also, the buy key is counter-intuitive for marines since their buy menus are tied to using structures. You'll just have the reverse scenario of marines asking why they can't bring up the buy menu everywhere instead.
hahaha.. wtf.. did you ever play the game man? ^^ I mean REALLY... 7v7 with competent ppl?
removing cysts and powernodes is SO rediculas of an idea that I thought it wouldn't need atention, but you guys seem serious about it.
This is not a path we need to go down. Everything is on the table for discussion here and I don't see why some things should be exempt just because you happen to like it. How can any informed decisions be made without knowing the full balance situation?
also .. do you NEED this knowledge about soft timers and damage types to play the game? .. or simply know that a fade is a rine killer and almost usless agains armored structures?
Not to just play it you don't. If you want to be competent at it you do. Damage types was but one example, plenty of others.
this gracefull and beautifull dance of mechanics that give us the best multiplayer experience of our lives shouldn't be tempered with ... at least not if you try to take AWAY stuff... im fine with adding new mechanics that compliment the established ones. Just explain them!
take away mechanics, dumb it down and the dance will devolve into a 4/4 Sidestep move that goes on forever... not fun to watch (that's important if you wanna make it more popular) and most certanly not fun to play...
you want simple stuff.. go play a moba!
No one is asking for simple. What is being asked for is that things that don't need to be complex because it doesn't value add shouldn't be complex. Depth vs Complexity etc.
Every suggestion in the doc looks fine, except the power node / cyst removal. Noone mentions it, but it also serves as expansion indicator. It clearly defines alien and marine territories. The rooms that need to be expanded to is clearly following a path. Using GT to keep a room "alive" is rare (veil nano for instance), Marines keep PG's to max 3 and strategic points with good access to their expansion.
Removing this will not tune the speed down, in contrary. It would add a lot of confusion too.
What makes you think the current 'balance' or gameplay is working?
like I said... it took a looooooong time to come that far. if you change on lil thingie, like powernode HP, 3 intertwined gamemechanics will break. for instance... powernodes need a specific time to be bitten, right?!... so the maps are layed out that the naturals are saveable in a time window. if you lower the HP you either need to redeign the maps or up the walking speed for the rines, wich would break stuff again even worse. both is a rediculas amount of work that's allready been done! lets focus on some features that ENHANCE the experience.
Every suggestion in the doc looks fine, except the power node / cyst removal. Noone mentions it, but it also serves as expansion indicator. It clearly defines alien and marine territories. The rooms that need to be expanded to is clearly following a path. Using GT to keep a room "alive" is rare (veil nano for instance), Marines keep PG's to max 3 and strategic points with good access to their expansion.
Removing this will not tune the speed down, in contrary. It would add a lot of confusion too.
I have the same opinion in matter of removing the power node and cysting feature. Imho they add a very interesting layer of strategy to NS2 and can even make the game easier to understand and to follow a rounds progress if they are used even more as indicators of team territories.
Examples of the kind of territory indication i have in mind can be found in games like Civilization and Planetside 2:
If you were going to remove powernodes an infestations from their current roles they should be a separate tech path. I think this is how those techpaths would look.
Only allow meds, ammo, catpacks, and nanosheild in rooms with power. That would make power incredibly important, but not necessary. Power HP would need to be higher. Powernode build times would need to be very low. If power is out, it is just black with no emergency lights.
Cysting would give the alien khamm bonesheild, rupture, nutrient mist, enzyme, mucous membrane, and hallucinations. This would make cysting very strong if you could just lay down and enzyme cloud in any engagement on infestation. You could still use enzyme, mucous membrane, and hallucinations with drifters for off infestation support. Cysts would need a lot more health, and increased build time.
Map control would not just be how far you can build an rt. Controlling a room would be very important too because it makes you that much stronger. Powernodes and cysting would be a techpath that gives the commander more control of the situation. Cysting vs power would show map control very distinctly.
It would also be nice if rooms started out with lights off except for marine start in this hypothetical change. If you were going to have the lights start as off, and rooms would be dark aliens should have bioluminescence as shown in the following picture. This is code complete. Little or no additional work needed.
That lighting thing is great!! It would be very atmospheric and lightning would affect gameplay, which is a good and fun thing. Entering dark rooms with flashlight and aliens in... Being forced to use Alien Vision because otherwise it would be too dark to see any marines... I would love that.
But marine commander can only drop medpacks and ammo on powered rooms? Just no.
May i suggest a better alien "evolve" menu - even two types, the basic that we use now but then an advanced that all new players would start with -
In there you can put in place the differnet alien lifeforms into "Classes" Support (Gorge) - Soldier (Skulk) - Aerial Support / Area harassment - (Lerk) - Warrior (Fade) - Tank (onos) i know thats not what they should be called but just an example.
Then with each of the Class you can give a short description about what the class does and should be doing (even have at this point tutorial videos that can be played showing off the class in action) then list each abilitity, what it does, the "cause" and "effect" and the "How to" again can show some videos on this.
This could be even added onto the main menu so new players can see and have a look through it, then in game they have it there also, but can change it to the "Basic" view mode also once they get to know the different lifeforms.
**edit**
Going to put the Wiki page here as it already does most of this really good, putting this into the game into an "advanced" evolve could help new players with the learning curve.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
teaching rookies how to do the current skulk walljump is easy. Yes the jump is not intuitive but they pick it up fast.
True bunnyhop like in ns1 took far longer to learn and was far more unintuitive.
Please never ever make a speed gain like bunnyhop ever again. It was born from a exploit and it was far less intuitive then walljump.
I mean only strafing and jumping to move forward, really? Intuitive?
Comments
You log into the CC with E like normaly since you cannot enter what is not build ^^ beside that would interference with the alienbuild key B to enter the hive otherwise...
Edit: sorry had to edit my post serval times after i was thinking it completly trough Nordic you might wanna unagree
1. alien com can highlight a tunnel system, when highlighted it glows to the aliens and appears a different colour on the minimap allowing aliens to quickly spot the correct tunnel to use.
2. the logout of command chair button located better and more visible, often i see rookies jump in the com chair and get kicked from the server because they cant figure out how to log out.
3. a lock on the command chair if you are a rookie option built into the server options.
4. red names for players with 500+ hours of play time. Encourages people to keep playing and also allows players to quickly scan a score board for experienced players clumped on 1 team.
5. different grades of commander badge, which quickly reflect the experience of a commander. Encourages people to play commander and rewards those who command often.
6. marine commander can change the rotation of the phase gate jumps from clockwise to anti clockwise. Essentially reversing the current order.
7. the cloak for aliens is to noticeable when sneaking at lvl 3. Needs to be better.
8. obs and scans cannot detect aliens that move slowly or who are stationary with aura evolution. This is partly to make shade hive more desirable.
9. Any experimental content can be added to the game with a 4 tech point to unlock. This means it wouldn't imbalance the game. Think HMGs, nukes etc..
Thiis gives us all fun things to play with and test without ruining the core gameplay.
some ideas (like making a big Logout button, half screen size) are obsolete. there ARE systems in place that allow rookie comm blocks and if some one is in and doesn't know how to get out?.. well.. tell him/her! there are 2 voip systems in place in the game. a shortcut would be nice tho (logout BTN).
I totally like the other Ideas... Make it more flashy and polished. Maybe increase the range of orders you can issue throughout the game. ... Push here... deffend this... or an arsenal of alerts you can fire off.. like all to the gates allert... or powernode under attack... DON'T automate them tho. chewing on a powernode unnoticed and getting away with it is part of untouchable gameplay. Maybe a bigger varietey of visual feedback for the comm than a once per minute ping per team member. ... I like the "we need more resouces" from the gorge for instance. like.. go to the red marker from player X on the map. and you as comm can link ppl to these Markers so the arrows show up on the floor AND the Map in the color of the maker
I do aggree with the meds tho.. make it a bit more forgiving and less sticky to walls ^^ ... if the geometry is seethrough a med shouldn't get hung up on it, killing ppl in the process.
oh.. just got one... how about a server wide taunt for Oni and Fades?.. make it optional for the player if they wanna strike fear in the hearts of thier enemys or keeping it strategically hidden till 3 Oni rape a base out of the blue.
right now the onos taunt is a lower volume stomp. a real one and the server wide roar would be great that you hear echoing through the corridors.
Also some of the compmod ideas are great.. like an out medable onos or HMGs ... but PLEASE ... put in a better sound!!! @ HMGs
oooh.. and could you up the displayable name text on the score board? some names get cut off and there is LOADS of room on an HD resolution
Look, I played marines for 6 months before finally giving aliens a serious go. The first two (2) times I tried alien play, I died almost instantly after spawning. I ran on the floor straight at marines just like everyone else did at first. I hated it and returned to marines after a few deaths. The reason I started with marines is due to my old school background in Doom, Quake, and Unreal. NS2 marines felt very familiar, even though I had to learn to reload, call for meds/ammo, request weld, use a flashlight and a map. All of which I never had to use in Quake or Unreal. NS2's general movement and lack of iron sight made me feel at home, hence 6 months of marine play. It took me another 6 months of work with aliens while continuing to play as a marine. NS2 has made me a better player at most every game. I've gained keyboard dexterity and further improved my aiming. Alien play helped me with tactical decisions and patients.
It's hard work to play this game. For some it comes natural. It is now somewhat natural for me - if not natural, it's very familiar and comfortable when I play. The million dollar question would be, are new players going to stick with it and invest upwards of 1,000-3,000+ hours as some of us have. I'm really not sure how to simplify the game or even if it should be. The complexity may just be the very thing that is rewarding to those who have mastered it. It keeps us coming back to this game. Take away complexity and you may not have as may folks with those 1,000+ hours who are still excited to play the game.
What can be done? We may want to possibly reward those who play the base game and stick with it for a while. Perhaps an achievement system would entice new players. If you were to achieve so many kills, points, or hours, you would be allowed to unlock the "Shadow/Knight/King/Queen/ Fade." This could be applied to all lifeforms with various names and slightly different looks/colors, or perhaps taunts, etc. Marines could benefit from this system as well. It would be entirely possible to play comp with players of different achievements as well. For example, 2,000+ hour marines could unlock a dark grey digital pattern skin with grey/black helmet...a very tatical-looking marine. Those with 2,500-3,000hrs would receive black armor similar to today's black armor. These are just examples of course. Obviously a time allowance may not be the best approach, but perhaps points or total kills would be better. I'm not sure and only brainstorming.
Final thought: I never scoffed at the hard work and great fun to learn the game. It's frustrates me that we have to accommodate those who can't or wont take the time to play it, learn it, and love it. Maybe we just don't need those folks in the community after all. However, if NS2 is going to completely fizzle without critical intervention and imagination focused on "inclusiveness", than I suppose it's okay to try.
Btw, I'm 50yrs old now and still play like I'm one of the 18-25yr olds...I have a 25yr old son. I feel like a kid most days, especially when playing NS2.
What makes you think the current 'balance' or gameplay is working? Just because it is stable / hasn't changed much recently and that the 200/300 odd daily players are used to it doesn't mean there aren't issues within the core gameplay.
A head-in-the-sand approach to the ideas being suggested in this thread and the google doc isn't going to change the fact that these issues need to be addressed if the game is to retain more players.
Change is scary, but it often leads to better outcomes.
I never understood as an invading hostile alien force, why would you leave the lights on to the whole facility to begin with? How about we knock all the lights off around the entire map APART from marine start and both marine naturals but make power nodes repairable in 1/2 the time.
This may help to counter really strong marine play at the beginning as aliens essentially have to rely on the environment to have any real good counter to a highly skilled marine.
Aliens need darkness and the ability to ambush, it makes ambushing such a chore if one was to opt to hide behind a door in a brightly lit room, bring back horror into games, make it absolutely terrifying to 1 vs 1 an alien.
When I play against aliens I don't feel fear at all when I engage skulks, I feel they are something that's just in the way, I don't FEAR them. @rantology make us FEAR aliens again
Look.. Iron.. Horse. Whatever kind of name that is. Is that like a reference to Troy or something? Your "document" should contain only hard facts and things that are to be taken seriously. None of this "conceptual" garbage. I want the right changes and I want it to be balanced perfectly. And I also want it by next patch.
I don't agree with the idea that marines can't med/ammo in unpowered rooms though, that would make pushing forward impossible. Nanoshield/catpacks, sure why not. remove sentry battery and tie them to room power. arcs require power to fire but not move maybe. drifters can only be built on infestation. drifter abilities and crag/shift more potent on infestation maybe? structure abilities (heal wave, ink, echo) only available on infestation.
I would like to see rooms to be a bit darker with unbuilt power and for power on/destroyed to be the same as it is now. let infestation darken the lights in a room, as if it spreads onto the light sources.
A tutorial with a skulk section for basic movement mechanics (reach the speed of X) would be nice. maybe throw in a bot who is specially designed to track skulks really well on the ground near walking speed, and reduce its accuracy the higher their speed making walljumping necessary. "Beat this bot 5 times!" with each round in a different room or something. Make a skin for those who complete the tutorial. Make a section in that character-skin-menu we have to see all the locked skins with a explanation on how to unlock it ("Complete the tutorial"). people love that.
Meanwhile if there's an attempt to actually rebuild NS2 and make it flourish, there's a plenty of mundane work to do that has been discussed numerous times already. Look no further than the main menu options window. After the few cursory tabs you've got, it's still an almost unsorted mess without any kind of clear segments or whatever. If you actually want to make NS2 accessible, you need to commit into cleaning up stuff like that throughout the game. Someone has to sit down and think about the core concepts and when and how they're represented in the game and then readjust options, HUD, sounds, particle effects and feedback and so on. It's a lot of subtle things that take time to get right, but as far as I can tell, that's what it takes to make NS2 a more accessible experience.
The big question right now is whether there's actually enough commitment and patience to sit down and work on NS2 with a long term plan rather than just slapping in extra features and whatever else there might be.
Edit: And this is not excluding the necessity of bigger changes either. It's just that even those are not going to cut unless there's proper long term commitment.
like I said... it took a looooooong time to come that far. if you change one lil thingie, like powernode HP, 3 intertwined gamemechanics will break. for instance... powernodes need a specific time to be bitten, right?!... so the maps are layed out that the naturals are saveable in a time window. if you lower the HP you either need to redeign the maps or up the walking speed for the rines, wich would break stuff again even worse. both is a rediculas amount of work that's allready been done! lets focus on some features that ENHANCE the experience.
the game IS so loved due to it's complexety! let's not dumb it down. let's smart people up!
Yeah and I don't think tweaking small values here and there is going to yield the desired effect. The game has fundamental issues that need to be fixed that have been band-aided over for the past three years and requires a considerable overhaul akin to Sewlek's balance mod but in this instance it would be a PDT redesign mod. Removing the need to chomp on power nodes or have to rebuild them without a welder would, for example, be enhancing the experience.
I seriously don't think bonage is suggesting we dumb the experience down but some truths have to be recognised; the game has layers of unnecessary complexity in mechanics that don't actually add to the experience and infact detract. Case in point is damage types which at near 5000 hours of ns2 game and modding time I couldn't accurately tell you every single damage type and its associated damage multiplier. So how the heck can it be expected that a casual or even regular player know this stuff?
Even 3 years after release I still see mid to high end players in terms of mechanical skill have a complete lack of awareness of some of the soft timers in the game that marines have to constantly be aware of lest they want to have pve and onos in their face for days. This is not the sort of thing I want to stay in the game and after 3 years of it being an unaddressed problem I think it's time to fix it. I am also glad that the Spores cropduster experiment is finally coming to a close after 3 years of what is obviously a poorly designed ability.
/ use flamethrowers to clear out the infestation or kill the building generating the infestation to return the room / lights to normal?
I would change Buy from B to V, though. It's strange how games still set important, often-used hotkeys to hard-to-reach ones by default. While you're at it, set the most important inputs to hotkeys that are closer to WASD and move less important ones further away. I guess you could go the extra mile and set the movements keys to ESDF. The point is that these default keybindings would teach or at least guide rookies toward good habits and offer ease of use right off the bat. When I learned about optimizing keybindings, it made all games much more easier and fluid to play. I have no idea how I managed to play games in the past that bound Map to M and whatnot by default. It's a bit subjective which inputs should go to which keys, though. It's ultimately up to the player, but I find these to be the most important inputs that should be closest to the movement keys:
Weapon2
Use
ShowMap
Reload
MovementModifier
Weapon3
Weapon4
Crouch (MouseButton3 for me, but you get the point)
Inputs like RequestHealth/Ammo/Order/Weld, ToggleFlashlight, Buy, VoiceChat, etc. are further away from my movement keys, but still within easy reach. Move the LastUpgrades key even further away so that the player does not accidentally press it when he/she does not mean to. Still super-handy to use after respawning, though.
hahaha.. wtf.. did you ever play the game man? ^^ I mean REALLY... 7v7 with competent ppl?
removing cysts and powernodes is SO rediculas of an idea that I thought it wouldn't need atention, but you guys seem serious about it.
also .. do you NEED this knowledge about soft timers and damage types to play the game? .. or simply know that a fade is a rine killer and almost usless agains armored structures?
this gracefull and beautifull dance of mechanics that give us the best multiplayer experience of our lives shouldn't be tempered with ... at least not if you try to take AWAY stuff... im fine with adding new mechanics that compliment the established ones. Just explain them!
take away mechanics, dumb it down and the dance will devolve into a 4/4 Sidestep move that goes on forever... not fun to watch (that's important if you wanna make it more popular) and most certanly not fun to play...
you want simple stuff.. go play a moba!
or NS2:combat
The problem is that people die without understanding why, that the time to kill is sooo short that no mistake is allowed.
This ties into the problem that higher lifeforms are hard to play, but for example a fade costs that much, that you likely only have one shot at it during a game.
I think those are the biggest issues, the dying without knowing why and not being able to use higher lifeforms and tech because of it.
powernodes etc are stuff people can understand. i doubt its what is holding back people from playing ns2
Vote on weapon levels, alien upgrades, lifeforms, which gun, etc. Then just play 1v1s, watching others to learn, and trying new things to win fights.
Would work great in other formats too. 2v2, 3v2, 2v3, 1v3.
Can the onos kill the 3 armor 2 LMG marines before dying? etc..
it all depends on the server you play on and how currated it is.
that's how we treat ppl on Hellarious Basterds
@mattji104 there are servers that have the pregamePlus enabled for exactly that reason. it's the dickarroundmode
1) It would show good ambushing positions via a ghost outline in every room when player is skulk. It would be orange if the player was moving around loudly, and green if they're silent.
Similar intuitive guides would aid in educated rookies about each class they're playing in real time during a normal game.
Also, the buy key is counter-intuitive for marines since their buy menus are tied to using structures. You'll just have the reverse scenario of marines asking why they can't bring up the buy menu everywhere instead.
This is not a path we need to go down. Everything is on the table for discussion here and I don't see why some things should be exempt just because you happen to like it. How can any informed decisions be made without knowing the full balance situation?
Not to just play it you don't. If you want to be competent at it you do. Damage types was but one example, plenty of others.
No one is asking for simple. What is being asked for is that things that don't need to be complex because it doesn't value add shouldn't be complex. Depth vs Complexity etc.
Removing this will not tune the speed down, in contrary. It would add a lot of confusion too.
Hahaha that tickled me in the right places, NS1 spores were the best, bring them back!
I have the same opinion in matter of removing the power node and cysting feature. Imho they add a very interesting layer of strategy to NS2 and can even make the game easier to understand and to follow a rounds progress if they are used even more as indicators of team territories.
Examples of the kind of territory indication i have in mind can be found in games like Civilization and Planetside 2:
That lighting thing is great!! It would be very atmospheric and lightning would affect gameplay, which is a good and fun thing. Entering dark rooms with flashlight and aliens in... Being forced to use Alien Vision because otherwise it would be too dark to see any marines... I would love that.
But marine commander can only drop medpacks and ammo on powered rooms? Just no.
In there you can put in place the differnet alien lifeforms into "Classes" Support (Gorge) - Soldier (Skulk) - Aerial Support / Area harassment - (Lerk) - Warrior (Fade) - Tank (onos) i know thats not what they should be called but just an example.
Then with each of the Class you can give a short description about what the class does and should be doing (even have at this point tutorial videos that can be played showing off the class in action) then list each abilitity, what it does, the "cause" and "effect" and the "How to" again can show some videos on this.
This could be even added onto the main menu so new players can see and have a look through it, then in game they have it there also, but can change it to the "Basic" view mode also once they get to know the different lifeforms.
**edit**
Going to put the Wiki page here as it already does most of this really good, putting this into the game into an "advanced" evolve could help new players with the learning curve.
Kharaa Lifeforms - Wiki
True bunnyhop like in ns1 took far longer to learn and was far more unintuitive.
Please never ever make a speed gain like bunnyhop ever again. It was born from a exploit and it was far less intuitive then walljump.
I mean only strafing and jumping to move forward, really? Intuitive?