Health bars on enemies
alster
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members
Comments
And wouldn't this also make enemies visible that are hiding in the shadows/vents/rafters? Even if it is a hitscan/crosshair scan thing, that would be a huge nono...
The only thing that is quite hidden for newbies though is that bloody Onos. Firing loads of bullet into that beast and not knowing how much damage you did as a single marine
Preferably the health bars would be small and minimalistic to not take up too much screen space as well, sorta like the old C&C rts bars.
For players though, what if you made it so you can see a player's name instantly, but it takes a second or two of sustained tracking for their health bar to show only to you until you look away. This would keep the guerilla tactics of the game largely unaffected by the inclusion of a enemy health bar, and still provide better feedback in cases where you're attacking somebody and unsure if you're doing damage or not.
Dune 2000!!!
Edit: For starters just take a look at Aura, an alien specific ability that lets you locate Marines through walls, and more importantly determine how much health they have left. Add in a health bar and you completely negate that aspect of aura's usefulness, even further pushing that hive out of the spotlight and into permanent 3rd hive territory. Not to mention that you are essentially giving all Marines that aspect of aura for free all the time.. So they get a free (and very powerful) permanent upgrade.
I also fear the problem of the health bar giving aliens positions away far too easily. A health bar above a hiding alien makes them a hundred times easier to spot, especially if their name is above the bar. Also what about skulks waiting around corners to ambush, a hovering health bar over their head is like a sign saying "Hey I'm right here, shoot me!"
It's already bad enough how often you get plastered onto the Marine minimap when there is no way any Marine had line of sight on you...
But really just no.. For the love of gorgies everywhere no.
Aura shows you enemies through walls.. this does not.
Aura shows you everyone in the room regardless of what action you take or dont take.. this does not, especially for a melee team that can't simultaneously damage an entire room of marines.
Aura stays on constantly no matter what.. this disappears quickly until damage is dealt by you again, and disappears indefinitely behind any cover.
So just keep in mind you're going to have to inflict damage first in order to see it, and even then it is fleeting. If it replaces anything, it replaces damage numbers which have been removed as a result of this.
There's definitely arguments for it and against it, but I just wanted to clear that part up at least.
Community backlash imminent lol
I know you love to provoke, but I honestly don't see your point of view in this one. How does this "shake up the game" as much as just taking a longstanding element and replacing it with the other side of the coin?
I can't see the HP bar bringing anything interesting, it is already covered where it is necessary, in the comview. Instead you are taking away the damagenumbers, horray.
This all feels like it is the wrong way about, like this is something that should have been in the alpha/beta and then upgraded to what we have today, because all it seems to be is a revert to something less useful.
If I understand correctly, you have to actually shoot the target, not just hover over it? If so, again, it's not much different from damage numbers or hitsounds.
All of that said.. I fear it's a bad idea as well, simply because, damage numbers seem more useful at first glance imo. But really, you'd have to play with it to understand correctly I think.
Experienced players generally "know" how much HP an alien has left, if you put 70-80 into a skulk, you know he's nearly done for. If you put 150 into a lerk, you know he won't be coming back to re-engage you. Veterans already have this information when they play because they inherently know it.
By adding a small health bar element when you damage something, we're attempting to give everyone (especially newer players) this same sense of how much damage you've actually done. It's one part in our goal to increasing game feedback during combat (like the ragdoll change) - We have more planned for this (sounds, directional damage feedback).
With everything we do, it's not set in stone. We'll be watching for feedback on this.
Be careful to not to give the information about how much HP is left.
Newer players have far bigger problems when playing Fade or Lerk. I'd prefer to boost rookie Fade, not rookie Marine.
Before you judge the idea on its own, try it out for a days.
No, no, no, no, no, no!
Oh no you got me completely wrong, I am indifferent either way to be honest, @rantology already summed it up as veteran inherently know how much HP a lifeform has left regardless, to be frank this is no different from a commander clicking on an onos that is running away screaming 800! 500! 200!
Less work and screaming for the commander is a welcome change in my eyes.
I am just merely commenting on the state of mind from a small vocal minority to whatever change PDT makes (good or bad) someone is always there to whine.
In Dirty Bomb friendly name tags/healthbar/ammo&health&revive auto-request icons, depending on the class you're playing, are available all the time through walls.
The enemy health bars are only available client side for you on your screen, that is if you damage them. You lose the healthbar about half a second after your last damage shot. There is no scanning of area to make them show up.
Also the deathcam is pretty cool, it creates a frozen ghost image of your character and the enemy character, showing you information about what weapon is used, how much health they have left and the hitscan line or explosion that killed you (killshot). And your camera is locked on your wounded character, while you're able to pan around still and observe the scene.
btw if this goes in would it mean that Aura is going to be a redundant personal upgrade for the shade hive?
No. Read the thread. Specifically Ironhorse's post.
I think it would probably make me a more cowardly Onos as well (ie never engaging any marines without full health) but I guess if they roll out this change we'll just have to see how it goes..
My primary worry about changes like this is the chance that they could make it easier for pros to dominate.. The pro level players in NS2 don't need help ruining pub games...
-No bars in normal games.
Knowing the enemy hp every time you damage them is stupid broken. It helps decision making pre and during engagements to an extreme extent. I understand the pdt wants to use ns2 as a "hey-lets-try-this-random-idea-sandbox"... but somewhere you have to just say lolnope.
Basically it would eliminate the gap in game knowledge between new players and intermediate and above who know the damage numbers by heart. I mean this knowledge isn't based on skill, and is kinda a "hidden value". Damage numbers don't communicate anything to new players other than they did damage.
If this were to be implemented you'd even get new players yelling. "Shoot that Onos, I almost got him!!!" Because now the newbies also know that it is almost dead based on a HP/AP bar. And since it is client side (on doing damage), it wouldn't broadcast it to everyone. So basically experienced players will still have to call out targets based on bars instead of numbers. That is the biggest difference.
-> There is maybe on small concern about this though, tagging enemies with one bullet/spit/parasite/spike to "probe" for information. Although I think, even though it might be an issue (which has to be tested), I think this might be blown a bit out of proportion. Usually experience players know instinctively where and what to shoot/spit/bite with focus fire/slime/teeth
Another concern, with the suggestion of removing damage numbers... That is, with experience, more accurate to call out in competitive games!
-> Calling out 326 damage vs "um it has 2-something dots left on it's bar?" So it might not be a good idea to remove damage numbers for high level play...
Technically the change would be insignificant for general gameplay. For experienced players it would slightly change calling out targets based on bars vs "hidden number knowledge", I still think damage numbers will have to stay anyway! But it would give newbies a huge boost in terms of relaying better information, compared to these arbitrary damage numbers. It will probably ease the frustration of not knowing how much you need to tickle them enemies for them to keel over
You are correct in the sense that the change wouldn't affect marine play. Aliens are all typically at max hp before a team fight so it really wouldn't matter.
I don't see how it would be broken, if it helps decision making. What would it break exactly?
I would agree that it would lower the team play skill ceiling, since you wouldn't necessarily have to call what lifeform you've damaged, or that marine X is a 2 bite, but the benefit could be that everyone improves their play, and makes better decisions. Especially on pub. Life forms that should have died, will die, and it would have been the fault of the life form, since it made the wrong decision to engage or overcommit.
Also, I think that rookies should play exactly the same game as everybody else, because otherwise they will not learn the game properly. Not to mention that the 5 hours play on rookieservers won't make you a nonrookie.
edit: too late, I guess
@rantology Not even sure why you as a competitive player would think this is a good idea even in the slightest, it makes it far easier to slaughter skulks when being swarmed, or in those situations where you rush into a tech point find a gorge, start attacking it and 2 skulks come for you, then a low HP fade comes for a heal or skulks come for heals, there is a chance they would have survived now it's up to the individual skill level of the player to survive.
Cool guys, just awesome!