Why the Cyclops is still far from being usable [update: the Cyclops got tougher now]

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  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    Qelsar wrote: »
    ...but every time I try to navigate with the Cyclops at night the damn front lights are just horrendously bright and I cant see crap..
    I believe they get turned off when you use either silent running or the manual external lights off switch starboard side just a bit back of the pilot station.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    edited May 2017
    Qelsar wrote: »
    I'm haven't been on the game or boards for awhile due to school, but I recently went back and started a fresh game from my last save over 6 months ago. I enjoy many of the updates they have and the new Cyclops is pretty kick ass, but my question is........ "Is it possible to redo the lights on the Cyclops?" I love the LED Seamoth feature where it lights up what you need without blinding you, but every time I try to navigate with the Cyclops at night the damn front lights are just horrendously bright and I cant see crap. I even left them on next to a cove and swam away from it and trying to look through the beams from the side and it gives you a very cloudy vision at best. Mostly I use the camera and light on the bottom on the ship and just make due, but I would like to actually travel with the intended view. Any thoughts Subnauticans?

    I wish the camera lights were set to full bright every time the external floodlights get set to 'on'. Then, you can still override that when in camera view, but if you wanted, you could aim the cameras at 3 different (or the same) area(s) for extra illumination, then go up to the external floodlights, and flip them on, and you'd have your areas illuminated.
    Jacke wrote: »
    Qelsar wrote: »
    ...but every time I try to navigate with the Cyclops at night the damn front lights are just horrendously bright and I cant see crap..
    I believe they get turned off when you use either silent running or the manual external lights off switch starboard side just a bit back of the pilot station.

    Yes, and conversely, if you turn on your lights, it takes you out of Silent Running.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    edited May 2017
    I just wish the visibility of the cyclops wasnt this abysmal.
    That would make me really really happy.

    Can barely see where you are going.
  • CaptainFearlessCaptainFearless CO, US Join Date: 2016-12-14 Member: 224941Members
    I just wish the visibility of the cyclops wasnt this abysmal.
    That would make me really really happy.

    Can barely see where you are going.
    Lights on: Useless and blind
    Lights off: Man I can see but stuff isnt bright

    :\
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members
    i just find that its to desctructable. every 200m i drive it i have to repair it.

    i like to turn the head for all the actions. it gives me the feeling of "operating something big" i have to manage this. and the PDA voice says that its designed for 3 pilots and just skilled pilots can operate it alone. so i like that :).

    3 people seems about right.

    One person to drive it. One person to weld the breaches. One person to put out the fires.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    EvilSmoo wrote: »
    i just find that its to desctructable. every 200m i drive it i have to repair it.

    i like to turn the head for all the actions. it gives me the feeling of "operating something big" i have to manage this. and the PDA voice says that its designed for 3 pilots and just skilled pilots can operate it alone. so i like that :).

    3 people seems about right.

    One person to drive it. One person to weld the breaches. One person to put out the fires.

    Should have been 4. Also needs someone to fight off the wildlife.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    Add one more to blow the horn and attempt to drive off the smaller wildlife.

    :p
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Add one more to blow the horn and attempt to drive off the smaller wildlife.

    :p

    If the horn is there to drive off the smaller creatures, then we should get a sound recorder to capture the sound of the leviathans and when we press the horn, it should produce a leviathan sound which we captured through sound recording.

    Although I don't think any small creature should be able to harm the Cyclops at all, with only a few exceptions (for which a horn might be necessary):
    • the exploding Crash fish should do a 5% hull damage with a hole big enough to create a flooding
    • the boneshark that is hard plated and has ramming speed with a 1% hull damage
    • the EMP of the Crabsquid could burn internal electronics and set a probability of getting internal fire
    • the Ampeel should be big and armored enough for a physical 2% hull damage
    • the Warper firing matter transforming warpshots could strike for a 1% hull damage
    • the Spinefish is big and dangerous enough to produce a 2% hull damage

    Of course the leviathans should be able to deal major damage to the Cyclops:
    • the Reaper Leviathan is focused on catching smaller prey but should still be able to deal 5% hull damage
    • the Ghost Leviathan could have special attacks and I'd prefer a 10% hull damage attack per strike
    • the Sea Dragon should get about 20% hull damage with flooding chance or 10% damage with internal fire chances for each attack run

    Getting back to the horn. The Reaper should fear the Sea Dragon sound as he is prey to the Sea Dragon. The Sea Dragon and Warper should never flee to any sound. And the Crash fish can only defend by exploding, so doesn't react to a sound too.
  • MalsqueekMalsqueek United States Join Date: 2016-05-17 Member: 216835Members
    I just wish the visibility of the cyclops wasnt this abysmal.
    That would make me really really happy.

    Can barely see where you are going.
    Lights on: Useless and blind
    Lights off: Man I can see but stuff isnt bright

    :\

    From what I've seen, the Cyclops front lights don't actually illuminate anything, either. They just wash out your view.
  • The08MetroidManThe08MetroidMan Join Date: 2016-09-23 Member: 222527Members
    edited May 2017
    Malsqueek wrote: »
    From what I've seen, the Cyclops front lights don't actually illuminate anything, either. They just wash out your view.

    Actually, I learned there is one thing they do; draw predators to your sub. Especially the bonesharks, which are hyper-sensitive to light. Hell, as it turns out, I went back into the game and realized this is how they find the Cyclops even when it's in silent running - your exterior cameras all have lights that automatically turn on when you use them, causing the bonesharks to see you even if you're running silent. Chances are this is true for other creatures as well - in fact, in Markiplier's most recent vid, his using the cameras seemed to draw a nearby Reaper to him.

    Long story short; the lights actually do one big thing, which is put a huge gap in silent running's functions - namely that, if you use external cameras (which are a necessity in some situations like tight maneuvering) and their auto-on lights, the wildlife is automatically aware of you even if you're running silent.
  • CYCLOPSHOLDERCYCLOPSHOLDER Join Date: 2017-05-14 Member: 230491Members
    So silent running doesn't work properly.
  • RequiemfangRequiemfang Join Date: 2015-02-22 Member: 201492Members
    well the game is a work in progress.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I close to never use the cameras. With or without lights, still poor visibility.
    The best thing for movement thus far is the sonar.

    A few blips and you know better than with normal visuals where the obstructions are. Even if they do attract creatures (I do not know), its just 3 blips.
    What DOES annoy me is the implementation.
    I found out yesterday that it does in fact show the wireframe throughout the subs floor. So why did I recently shove a suggestion in to do this?
    Because the steering wheel does block the wireframe. And when do you often use a cyclops? Going down, deep diving, when facing the bloody wheel. Because no one in their right mind will grab a 6 powercell sub when the seamoth can do the same depth on one.

    Right now I have resorted to just go outside and visually check by player character where the F I am.
    If sonar has shown ground beneath me I might dump out the prawn to do a more detailed check.
    But really, the more I use it the more I see that everything is abysmal on its visibility.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    I just discovered, at least on Experimental, that the Cyclops Decoy Tube Upgrade is effectively unusable unless you're very careful due to a save+load bug.

    I kept finding the Decoy Tube loaded with 1/5 when I was sure I'd filled it up to 5. So I tested. If saved with the CDT Upgrade and 5 Decoys (and likely 2 to 4 Decoys as well), when that save is loaded, there will be only 1 Decoy and the others will be gone. I reported it via F8.

    I suspect the likely cause is the Upgrade is somehow momentarily not present on loading, which destroyed the extra Decoys.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    Jacke wrote: »
    I just discovered, at least on Experimental, that the Cyclops Decoy Tube Upgrade is effectively unusable unless you're very careful due to a save+load bug.

    I kept finding the Decoy Tube loaded with 1/5 when I was sure I'd filled it up to 5. So I tested. If saved with the CDT Upgrade and 5 Decoys (and likely 2 to 4 Decoys as well), when that save is loaded, there will be only 1 Decoy and the others will be gone. I reported it via F8.

    I suspect the likely cause is the Upgrade is somehow momentarily not present on loading, which destroyed the extra Decoys.

    Sounds like the similar BUG with the Seamoth's Pressure Compensator upgrade.

    Sometimes when coming back to the game after a save, that particular module needs to be taken out and put back in for the game to register that you have it in play.

    B)
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    edited May 2017
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Sounds like the similar BUG with the Seamoth's Pressure Compensator upgrade.

    Sometimes when coming back to the game after a save, that particular module needs to be taken out and put back in for the game to register that you have it in play.
    From my experience, that bug still exists in the current Experimental (May-2017 47914) and is solid. When a game is loaded, the Pressure Compensators aren't in effect until they are removed and replaced.

    But the Cyclops Hull Modules work correctly on savegame load. I wonder if the bug with the Cyclops Decoy Tube Upgrade is caused by a potential fix for the CHM's: momentarily remove and replace the mods. If that's what's done, it would fix the problem with the CHM but destroys any decoys over 1.

    Doesn't matter. It's reported and will eventually be addressed. Just wanted players to know about it.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    edited May 2017
    Jacke wrote: »
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Sounds like the similar BUG with the Seamoth's Pressure Compensator upgrade.

    Sometimes when coming back to the game after a save, that particular module needs to be taken out and put back in for the game to register that you have it in play.
    From my experience, that bug still exists in the current Experimental (May-2017 47914) and is solid. When a game is loaded, the Pressure Compensators aren't in effect until they are removed and replaced.

    But the Cyclops Hull Modules work correctly on savegame load. I wonder if the bug with the Cyclops Decoy Tube Upgrade is caused by a potential fix for the CHM's: momentarily remove and replace the mods. If that's what's done, it would fix the problem with the CHM but destroys any decoys over 1.

    Doesn't matter. It's reported and will eventually be addressed. Just wanted players to know about it.

    ... And Knowing Is Half The Battle ...




    (yes, I watched way to much kids TV in my lifetime)

    B)
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    I updated my original post after I found a new use for the Cyclops shields. Probably not intended but they are perfect for going through narrow passages without using the cams. Look at my original post.

    So if you want to avoid using your aweful ship cams, just knock yourself through terrain with shields on.
  • MalsqueekMalsqueek United States Join Date: 2016-05-17 Member: 216835Members
    Actually, I learned there is one thing they do; draw predators to your sub. Especially the bonesharks, which are hyper-sensitive to light. Hell, as it turns out, I went back into the game and realized this is how they find the Cyclops even when it's in silent running - your exterior cameras all have lights that automatically turn on when you use them, causing the bonesharks to see you even if you're running silent. Chances are this is true for other creatures as well - in fact, in Markiplier's most recent vid, his using the cameras seemed to draw a nearby Reaper to him.

    Long story short; the lights actually do one big thing, which is put a huge gap in silent running's functions - namely that, if you use external cameras (which are a necessity in some situations like tight maneuvering) and their auto-on lights, the wildlife is automatically aware of you even if you're running silent.

    Since restarting with Silent Running Update, I had noticed that lights are a general factor for hiding from a lot of the predators. I adore that functionality, and in general really like the cyclops being attacked and having fires start. Makes for a pretty exciting set of choices. Just need to set the damage thresholds properly.

    That said, I didn't know that the camera's lights turn on automatically even when not in use. That's poppycock. Especially considering that you don't benefit from the visibility they provide unless you are using the stated cameras. And the front lights don't even illuminate anything ever (far as I've been able to tell) and actively ruin what visibility you do have out the front dome.

  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    Malsqueek wrote: »
    Actually, I learned there is one thing they do; draw predators to your sub. Especially the bonesharks, which are hyper-sensitive to light. Hell, as it turns out, I went back into the game and realized this is how they find the Cyclops even when it's in silent running - your exterior cameras all have lights that automatically turn on when you use them, causing the bonesharks to see you even if you're running silent. Chances are this is true for other creatures as well - in fact, in Markiplier's most recent vid, his using the cameras seemed to draw a nearby Reaper to him.

    Long story short; the lights actually do one big thing, which is put a huge gap in silent running's functions - namely that, if you use external cameras (which are a necessity in some situations like tight maneuvering) and their auto-on lights, the wildlife is automatically aware of you even if you're running silent.

    Since restarting with Silent Running Update, I had noticed that lights are a general factor for hiding from a lot of the predators. I adore that functionality, and in general really like the cyclops being attacked and having fires start. Makes for a pretty exciting set of choices. Just need to set the damage thresholds properly.

    That said, I didn't know that the camera's lights turn on automatically even when not in use. That's poppycock. Especially considering that you don't benefit from the visibility they provide unless you are using the stated cameras. And the front lights don't even illuminate anything ever (far as I've been able to tell) and actively ruin what visibility you do have out the front dome.

    No, the camera lights automatically turn on when you activate the cameras (you have to manually right-click them off, for each camera.. not sure if the other cams are lit until shut off or not... actually, that could be an issue... have to test, but not sure how. Freecam?)
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    No, the camera lights automatically turn on when you activate the cameras (you have to manually right-click them off, for each camera.. not sure if the other cams are lit until shut off or not... actually, that could be an issue... have to test, but not sure how. Freecam?)
    At least in current Experimental, DON'T right-click when using the cameras. That switches to Ahead Slow (but doesn't move the Cyclops) and takes it out of Silent Running.

    In current Experimental, in camera view left-click toggles the lights.
  • willow512willow512 Netherlands Join Date: 2013-12-17 Member: 190203Members
    crawlerxp wrote: »
    I use it as a transport/refueling/food/water station. More or less a mobile pit stop. I don't take it down anywhere I know something might attack it, unless I've got either a decoy or something to defend with if the enemies are small enough

    This!
    I don't take the Cyclops into an unexplored environment either. It's way too big for many of the caves, usually you can get it in there by careful maneuvering. But you need to get out all the time to fix the holes you bump into it. It's simply not designed for that... And should not be.

    The prawn is for that. It's super tough, easy to maneuver once you've added the jumpjet and grapple arm. It uses only a fraction of the power of the cyclops and it goes at least as deep. That dragon was chasing me once, other than needing a new pair of pants I got out without damage.

    If the cyclops was able to do all the tasks the Prawn and Moth can do then why would you bother to even use the prawn or moth? At first I didn't like the prawn it was so slow and cumbersome. But now it's my favourite vehicle for scary places.

    I like the the design decisions made. Vehicles should not make each other obsolete!
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I use the cyclop mainly for a big ass hauler. I do take it in lava zones on silent running but I try to not park it next to anything agressive because of the fact that its not in silent running when you load the save.
    And nothing says 'spinning cyclops' like it being in silent running and getting bumped by big, bigger, biggest when the power module ran out due to larva.

    Than again, I made a whole base near the lava zones just to use as a pitstop for food, water and powercells.
  • The08MetroidManThe08MetroidMan Join Date: 2016-09-23 Member: 222527Members
    willow512 wrote: »

    This!
    I don't take the Cyclops into an unexplored environment either. It's way too big for many of the caves, usually you can get it in there by careful maneuvering. But you need to get out all the time to fix the holes you bump into it. It's simply not designed for that... And should not be.

    The prawn is for that. It's super tough, easy to maneuver once you've added the jumpjet and grapple arm. It uses only a fraction of the power of the cyclops and it goes at least as deep. That dragon was chasing me once, other than needing a new pair of pants I got out without damage.

    If the cyclops was able to do all the tasks the Prawn and Moth can do then why would you bother to even use the prawn or moth? At first I didn't like the prawn it was so slow and cumbersome. But now it's my favourite vehicle for scary places.

    I like the the design decisions made. Vehicles should not make each other obsolete!

    Except the aggression of the Sea Dragons makes it impossible to get to the Primary Containment Facility without a Cyclops, so you quite literally need to take it down there at some point. Furthermore, there was talk on the Trello of cutting down the Prawn's power reserves specifically to prevent players abusing it over the other vehicles, so that method's quite possibly going to become unusable in the future - as far as the devs are concerned, that method with the Prawn makes the other vehicles obsolete.

    Simply put, you're supposed to use the Prawn or Moth to explore an area with the Cyclops as home-base. Furthermore, the issue isn't that the sub's destructible to begin with - it's that the darn thing can be damaged by anything and that just three bonesharks can cause more damage in one round than a Reaper Leviatnan's bite, translating to damage-balancing issues. Also, external cameras have lights that automatically turn on when you use them, causing creatures to see and attack you even while running silent.

    Simply put, it's not perfect yet, and the devs seem intent on making more changes to entail reliance on it
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members
    Except the aggression of the Sea Dragons makes it impossible to get to the Primary Containment Facility without a Cyclops, so you quite literally need to take it down there at some point. Furthermore, there was talk on the Trello of cutting down the Prawn's power reserves specifically to prevent players abusing it over the other vehicles, so that method's quite possibly going to become unusable in the future - as far as the devs are concerned, that method with the Prawn makes the other vehicles obsolete.

    Simply put, you're supposed to use the Prawn or Moth to explore an area with the Cyclops as home-base. Furthermore, the issue isn't that the sub's destructible to begin with - it's that the darn thing can be damaged by anything and that just three bonesharks can cause more damage in one round than a Reaper Leviatnan's bite, translating to damage-balancing issues. Also, external cameras have lights that automatically turn on when you use them, causing creatures to see and attack you even while running silent.

    Simply put, it's not perfect yet, and the devs seem intent on making more changes to entail reliance on it

    If this is the route the devs are going (and for the record, I'm perfectly ok with using the Cyclops as a mobile base as long as the balance issues are fixed), then we also need to have a sensible route to actually get the Cyclops down to the ILZ. The tunnel at the front of the Aurora is still open (for the moment at least), but based on discord it sounds like they're planning on closing it up to force the player to go through the Lost River so they don't miss story content.

    I just took a Cyclops down the Blood Kelp trench into the Lost River in a survival game and that route is not at all suitable for a vehicle the size of a Cyclops. Even discovering that route is a major issue right now given the poor visibility in the Blood Kelp zone (and the excessive sonar power usage), much less navigating it without constantly bumping into things.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    Why would they think folk use the prawn as their main transportation? Its ffing slow.
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    Why would they think folk use the prawn as their main transportation? Its ffing slow.

    Perhaps because many players aren't always in a hurry to get somewhere.
    B)
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Members
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Why would they think folk use the prawn as their main transportation? Its ffing slow.

    Perhaps because many players aren't always in a hurry to get somewhere.
    B)

    That and it lets the player interact with the environment without having to get in and out all the time to gather items, it can defend itself against hostile creatures, and has the greatest max depth of all the vehicles.
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    Why would they think folk use the prawn as their main transportation? Its ffing slow.

    With the grappling arm, and to a lesser extent, jumpjet upgrades, it can actually be quite fast.
  • zetachronzetachron Germany Join Date: 2014-11-14 Member: 199655Members
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Why would they think folk use the prawn as their main transportation? Its ffing slow.

    With the grappling arm, and to a lesser extent, jumpjet upgrades, it can actually be quite fast.

    That!



    Actually, comparing driving the Cyclops to the prison, the Prawn suit is 10x as fast as the fastest Cyclops. You also have the advantage of seeing everything. And of course maneuvering the Prawn suit feels really well, compared against the Cyclops. You also have a fixed Prawn suit HUD where you can see everything at once, while in the Cyclops my head keeps spinning around searching for all buttons and info and sometimes you want to get up just to see where you have been damaged or press fire suppression, but you don't really want to leave your seat ... welcome to Cyclops driving hell.

    So the devs made the Sea Dragon ominpotent aggresive and reduced the resistance and energy of the Prawn. That makes it very difficult now to get to the prison only with the Prawn suit. But if you get there it's really fast. The seamoth would be even faster, but that was blocked from depth long ago.


    Somewhere I have posted how I drive the Cyclops now. I constantly use sonar and shields to knock myself forcefully through the depths towards the prison, while I avoid using the cams anymore and just drive by sight while my shields are up. With creatures nearby I usually use silent running that stops all aggresion towards the Cyclops with some exceptions, like the Crabsquid EMPs.
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