There's a perfect reason for building a midway station at the Lost River:
The Seamoth can reach it and go back to surface in no time and the Prawn suit can use it as a base for explorations at the Lava Zone. This would allow a gameplay that could avoid using the Cyclops, if there wasn't this omnipotent Sea Dragon going through rock at the Lava Zone. If you want to bring the resources down there the best option might be a Seamoth with 3 slots extra cargo. That should set up a small base in no time.
About diving action without the Cyclops:
With my 800+ game hours I only have respect for the leviathans when I am diving with my suit, because they are faster than the player can swim. And as only the Sea Dragon is off limits to a defensive and speedy Seamoth it makes him the only Leviathan to fear. All other creatures I usually outmaneuver with pure swimming speed (including swarms of bonesharks) and simply take the very rare hits I get. Always worked so far in endless hours and now even with Warpers and Lava lizards, although these are the most unpredictable and dangerous with their shot abilities.
If you can't do that you have the wrong equipment (or are too heavy) and probably not enough training. But I don't expect other players to do this, so yes you are right, that typically it would be too much, fighting the Sea Dragon with the stasis rifle with all the other Warpers and Lava Lizards around you. Not to forget that the stasis doesn't prevent the Sea Dragon from spitting fire, so you shouldn't stasis him frontal. So for anyone to have a more peaceful gameplay I think using the Cyclops in silent running is the only option at all.
Getting the Cyclops to the Lost River:
I think with the method of using the shields only against rock collision I could even try the route with no Crabsquids and Warpers, but lots of Spinesharks. But the main thing of getting the Cyclops down there is probably that once you have reached the Lost River, the Cyclops maneuvering will get far less painful afterwards. So the real pain is probably that the Cyclops can only be constructed at the surface and each time you would loose it to the Sea Dragon you'd have to do an extremely ugly navigation part again.
Come to think of shield usage. It might be best to just get the Cyclops down damaged and weld afterwards where no leviathan is there. The shield method is really only a must in Sea Dragon territory where you can't exit to repair. Which means actually only 1 small tight passage near the castle. With that the energy problem should be solved (sadly not the ugly navigation).
About making the Sea Dragon super dangerous:
I like the Idea of the Sea Dragon being a dangerous problem to fear and not easy to overcome and the devs thought so too, making him how he is now. But ... and that is important ... the main problem of a non-lethal game with no weapons against the Sea Dragon combined with the extreme poor maneuverability of the Cyclops and the extreme poor creature AI/pathfinding needed for stealth gameplay forced the devs to play tricks: Creatures blinded by silent running and the Cyclops still invincible if the player isn't inside. And this is destroying immersion completely.
With the bad Cyclops navigation there should be only these ways to deal with the Sea Dragon:
silent running while the Sea Dragon is a bit away and stealth cloak with no movement when the Sea Dragon gets close
setting a leviathan decoy to lure the Sea Dragon away that doesn't detect the player if he's too far away
shields & flank speed to ram a Sea Dragon to chase him away (but then the Sea Dragon is not fearsome)
If you've 400+ hours and never been down deep, than I must assume that the majority of Subnautica players never tested the Cyclops down at the Lava Zone. And therefore can't understand the problems the Cyclops will have with the Sea Dragon.
Of course it's somewhat funny to see the Cyclops suffer some managable but annoying damage against the Reaper. Because with the Seamoth you could simply shock the Reaper the moment he grabs you and therefore you could go through swarms of Reapers with minimal damage, while such a Reaper swarm would quickly sink a Cyclops.
I've been chased a few times by Reapers while out swimming with the Seaglide. Once I turned away and the Reaper almost got me; I saw a mandible in the left FOV before I started pulling away. I've been shaken once in the Seamoth prior to getting the Defense System; when dropped, I just used the Seamoth's high speed to get away.
So considering the threats I've been reading about, I'm not really looking forward to what's down in the DGR, LR, and LZs.
Part of the reason I've not gone deep in Subnautica is in my previous games, I still had plenty to explore and do at shallower depths. I'd not had the Modification Station to make the Pressure Compensators MK2 and MK3 until right before I'd gone to the Aurora. And often I'd find after doing that and going back, I'd lose enthusiasm to continue with my Subnautica games. I'd be gone a few months, then there'd be a new release or two, and I'd go at it again.
This time around, my time out of game was longer and the changes had mostly moved on to the depths. I'd also learned more and my exploration prior to the Aurora would include more dives to the Jelly Shroom Caves and other 200-350m depths. Also I was reading the forums more and knew the issues were mostly with things at depths in zones I'd not gone into before.
It seems the Cyclops got much tougher and less damagable. I feel I no longer need the shields to get through tight terrain and recently went from the Grand Reef past the abondoned base to the Lost River with flank speed - passing the Crabsquids and Warpers before they realized what happened - with less than 5% damage at that part of the map. I mainly used cam 1 for going through that narrow terrain, although I confess that I have most of the map memorized and know that route by heart. Zero shield usage and no sonar, as the cam view itself is good to see and avoid bottom damage.
My advice for you: If the Cyclops stays that tough you can train navigating the Cyclops based on cam 1 in silent running and sometimes check the top cam if you are unsure to hit the ceiling. Don't try driving the Cyclops with direct sight, as you probably don't know the terrain well enough and the direct sight is far more dark and fuzzy as well as not bottom view friendly.
If you get lost in terrain it's best to explore it with the Seamoth until Lost River and with the Prawn until you get near the castle, where the 2 Sea Dragons swarm around it. I only wish the Prawn suit would have a decoy launcher arm instead of a totally useless torpedo arm. You probably wish the Prawn would have a Stasis rifle arm instead.
There is a big sinkhole near the castle just ahead from the cave entrance you arrive at from the Lost River. You can get in there without a Sea Dragon getting you if you want to directly approach the prison with your Cyclops. Here:
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Rather than making stuff like a prawn worse, we should make the cyclops better.
* Realistic visibility. Right now sonar is pretty much required.
* Sonar scanlines visible through the steering wheel for going down. Because, still blind.
* Some bugger of option for creatures. the seamoth can zap and they bugger of for x duration. Something similar would work also for the cyclops. You can make downsides to it. Just make it realistic considering what the seamoth can do!
* Smaller lonesome creatures should be wary or scared and not come close to begin with, regardless of movement speed.
* Smaller pack creatures should only attack when they have sufficient numbers. the 'oh I am safe here they aint attacking and a moment later blam'.
* Bigger creatures should give a real danger.
* Biggest creatures are the boss and we aint. I would argue the very hardshelled reefbacks count as this also. We move for them and not the other way.. if we dont.. dunno, tail slap us or something?
* Silent running is LOL. Every creature with eyes suddenly goes blind? Id almost argue to make it camouflage. (not cloak) Perhaps make it so you cant go into silent when you are agrod by something to big unless decoy? Wont work if the cyclops is more fun to use.
Im all for making a harsh end game, but this cyclops man.. come on.
There's a perfect reason for building a midway station at the Lost River:
The Seamoth can reach it and go back to surface in no time and the Prawn suit can use it as a base for explorations at the Lava Zone. This would allow a gameplay that could avoid using the Cyclops, if there wasn't this omnipotent Sea Dragon going through rock at the Lava Zone. If you want to bring the resources down there the best option might be a Seamoth with 3 slots extra cargo. That should set up a small base in no time.
But again, the problem with that is how literally none of the needed base-building materials (Titanium, Lithium, Quartz, Copper and Common Coral for electronics, etc) exist down there. Furthermore, I disagree that the seamoth can "reach it and go back to surface in no time" due to the high aggression of the River Prowlers and the vulnerability of the thing to Crabsquid EMP's. You'd be every bit as unlikely to go far in that without taking damage as you would the Cyclops - more likely in fact, due to the absence of silent running. Hell, if the (comparatively more fragile) Seamoth gets destroyed in-transit and you get stranded down there without any means of reaching the surface again, you're screwed. Same with the Prawn; Sea Dragon aggression makes it too much of a risk and/or hassle to do. All together, building a base just to be a go-between and it might actually be more trouble than to just use the Cyclops, unpleasant an experience as that currently is in my opinion. It still comes down to the same issue as before - gameplay-wise, it's not fun; it's taxing and strenuous to use, but the workaround feels just as much, if not moreso. I'd really rather the Cyclops just get fixed.
With my 800+ game hours I only have respect for the leviathans when I am diving with my suit, because they are faster than the player can swim. And as only the Sea Dragon is off limits to a defensive and speedy Seamoth it makes him the only Leviathan to fear. All other creatures I usually outmaneuver with pure swimming speed (including swarms of bonesharks) and simply take the very rare hits I get. Always worked so far in endless hours and now even with Warpers and Lava lizards, although these are the most unpredictable and dangerous with their shot abilities.
No offense, but your gameplay experience is a lot different from mine, than; I've yet to meet even a single Leivathan I could outmanuver in the Seamoth if and/or when they spot me. Hell, even the bonesharks keep pace with me - and that's not counting when one I can't see smacks into me from the side. It happened so often that I outright refused to take the Seamoth anywhere without hull reinforcement to survive getting caught and the electrical defense system to drive it away, as literally every time I used it entailed needing both. Couple that with not having any safe spot to repair it in otherwise, and using the Cyclops to transport it became a necessity for me.
If you can't do that you have the wrong equipment (or are too heavy) and probably not enough training. But I don't expect other players to do this, so yes you are right, that typically it would be too much, fighting the Sea Dragon with the stasis rifle with all the other Warpers and Lava Lizards around you. Not to forget that the stasis doesn't prevent the Sea Dragon from spitting fire, so you shouldn't stasis him frontal. So for anyone to have a more peaceful gameplay I think using the Cyclops in silent running is the only option at all.
I've ended up like that even with ultralight gear (minus the reinforced dive suit, since you can't survive the LZ without one) and literally nothing else in the inventory aside from the stasis rifle - which cost me a lot of time since I had no seaglide to motor it back to the sub with. Personally, I don't know if it's a matter of "training" or not - it feels more like the design of the level itself is meant to discourage you from doing anything outside the dev's personal pathway. Then again, I admit it might also be that I'm simply poor at FPS-style reaction timing/not used to playing things like an FPS (or at least not when it's supposed to be a discovery game), so there's that. Also, in the case of larger creatures, the hitbox for them is centered on the head - learned that with Reaper Leviathan. Simply put, on large creatures like the Sea Dragon, stasis from frontal seems like the only way to guarantee you hit them, so you pretty much have to let him charge right at you.
I think with the method of using the shields only against rock collision I could even try the route with no Crabsquids and Warpers, but lots of Spinesharks. But the main thing of getting the Cyclops down there is probably that once you have reached the Lost River, the Cyclops maneuvering will get far less painful afterwards. So the real pain is probably that the Cyclops can only be constructed at the surface and each time you would loose it to the Sea Dragon you'd have to do an extremely ugly navigation part again.
Like I said before, my issue with that is from the assured rapid battery drain that'd result from ensuring the ship made it down there without too much damage just from collisions. Especially since, as evidenced by Markiplier's second-most recent vid on Subnautica and IGP's vid on the full-release Silent Running, collision with the environment or even just wildlife like a boneshark can take a big chunk out of your health. Unless you have the Ion Cells to mitigate the drain, you either spam the shields till you bleed the batteries dry or you just constantly rack up damage. At some point, it just feels like you don't get equal returns for the effort, in my opinion - I get it's supposed to feel like a challenge, but this feels more like pulling teeth to me.
Come to think of shield usage. It might be best to just get the Cyclops down damaged and weld afterwards where no leviathan is there. The shield method is really only a must in Sea Dragon territory where you can't exit to repair. Which means actually only 1 small tight passage near the castle. With that the energy problem should be solved (sadly not the ugly navigation).
IDK - considering everything between that and the Primary Containment Facility are Sea Dragon territory, I don't know where you could take it after that point that it'd be safe to leave alone (although I base this off the assumption that the devs are probably going to remove the "Cyclops is invincible when you leave it" thing to prevent what they'd consider exploiting). Moreover, I think the energy problem would still be an issue simply in how much you'd already have to expend just to get down there, since the ugly navigation means chances of collisions (with either the environment or creatures) is annoyingly high - and that's not counting the bloody lava larva draining the batteries. It basically feels like once you decide to go to the LZ, you're committed and can only go back or forwards - no middle ground. Or at least that's how it feels to me.
I like the Idea of the Sea Dragon being a dangerous problem to fear and not easy to overcome and the devs thought so too, making him how he is now. But ... and that is important ... the main problem of a non-lethal game with no weapons against the Sea Dragon combined with the extreme poor maneuverability of the Cyclops and the extreme poor creature AI/pathfinding needed for stealth gameplay forced the devs to play tricks: Creatures blinded by silent running and the Cyclops still invincible if the player isn't inside. And this is destroying immersion completely.
With the bad Cyclops navigation there should be only these ways to deal with the Sea Dragon:
silent running while the Sea Dragon is a bit away and stealth cloak with no movement when the Sea Dragon gets close
setting a leviathan decoy to lure the Sea Dragon away that doesn't detect the player if he's too far away
shields & flank speed to ram a Sea Dragon to chase him away (but then the Sea Dragon is not fearsome)
Well, that I actually can't argue; it feels like the devs ended up relying more on features or mechanics obfuscating flaws in things (creature AI, Cyclops hull strength, etc) rather than fully fixing or properly balancing everything.
It seems the Cyclops got much tougher and less damagable. I feel I no longer need the shields to get through tight terrain and recently went from the Grand Reef past the abondoned base to the Lost River with flank speed - passing the Crabsquids and Warpers before they realized what happened - with less than 5% damage at that part of the map. I mainly used cam 1 for going through that narrow terrain, although I confess that I have most of the map memorized and know that route by heart. Zero shield usage and no sonar, as the cam view itself is good to see and avoid bottom damage.
I hope that's the case; I haven't seen much activity on the Trello or Discord about changes, but I might not be looking in the right places. Again, I hope that's the case. I'll find out over the course of the week.
My advice for you: If the Cyclops stays that tough you can train navigating the Cyclops based on cam 1 in silent running and sometimes check the top cam if you are unsure to hit the ceiling. Don't try driving the Cyclops with direct sight, as you probably don't know the terrain well enough and the direct sight is far more dark and fuzzy as well as not bottom view friendly.
Only if they fixed how the cameras have lights that automatically go on and draw creatures to you even if in silent running. Otherwise, I'd have no choice to but use direct sight in order to stay undetected. That being said though, I do know the way - it's just that knowing the direction and dodging everything in the path are two separate things.
If you get lost in terrain it's best to explore it with the Seamoth until Lost River and with the Prawn until you get near the castle, where the 2 Sea Dragons swarm around it. I only wish the Prawn suit would have a decoy launcher arm instead of a totally useless torpedo arm. You probably wish the Prawn would have a Stasis rifle arm instead.
There is a big sinkhole near the castle just ahead from the cave entrance you arrive at from the Lost River. You can get in there without a Sea Dragon getting you if you want to directly approach the prison with your Cyclops. Here:
Knowing the terrain and threading the Cyclops through it are separate things, though; IDK if any amount of scouting with smaller vehicles is going to tell you how to make the larger one fit as opposed to simply telling you where the opening is.
Plus, given that the Prison Key is inside the Lava Castle's Base/Thermal Plant, you can't really go straight to the Prison to begin with - you'll have to exit the sub and enter the castle first. So you'll probably have to chance a Sea Dragon encounter at some point anyway.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Its perfectly doable to reach the blue tree with a seamoth as long as you stay near the top to not go below 900m.
You outrun most baddies, and the seamoths shock upgrade encourages the rest to bugger something else.
Just take a battery and a welder with you for the bit of damage you receive and all is well.
Than again, I did make my base there first with the cyclops, but in theory can be done on seamoth.
I agree to the closing of this thread. We are not the designers here. There isnt any point if we dont agree with the decisions that are made. All we can do is provide feedback and our opinions. The developers can decide to ignore us if necessary. It is their game after all. We are just merely renting the entertainment of their hard work. A game is like an interactive movie. The director has his own vision of how the scene is shot and considers opinions but he make the decision. Same principal applies here.
I just had two bonesharks nearly destroy my Cyclops in 10 seconds. Now that is just stupid. We're talking about advanced human technology that has colonized most of the galaxy, and their submarine design can be totally destroyed in seconds by some small sharks. Even modern day IRL subs would be totally invulnerable to shark bites. I mean fires everywhere and 10% HP. Barely saved it in time. Stupid.
I just had two bonesharks nearly destroy my Cyclops in 10 seconds. Now that is just stupid. We're talking about advanced human technology that has colonized most of the galaxy, and their submarine design can be totally destroyed in seconds by some small sharks. Even modern day IRL subs would be totally invulnerable to shark bites. I mean fires everywhere and 10% HP. Barely saved it in time. Stupid.
Sounds more like a bug tbh. Mine takes a besting before fires start, certainly more than 2 sharks can manage in 10 seconds!
I agree to the closing of this thread. We are not the designers here. There isnt any point if we dont agree with the decisions that are made. All we can do is provide feedback and our opinions. The developers can decide to ignore us if necessary. It is their game after all. We are just merely renting the entertainment of their hard work. A game is like an interactive movie. The director has his own vision of how the scene is shot and considers opinions but he make the decision. Same principal applies here.
Just to correct something. It's different from a movie. We paid to be beta testers. That is what buying an "Early Access" game means. And, in many cases, "blunt speaking", like what was being done in this thread, can do wonders, instead of the feedback and hope they will not ignore us. You paid money for this, remember?
I was going to post a little rant here, but because it got out of context of this thread, I'll create another one.
I just had two bonesharks nearly destroy my Cyclops in 10 seconds. Now that is just stupid. We're talking about advanced human technology that has colonized most of the galaxy, and their submarine design can be totally destroyed in seconds by some small sharks. Even modern day IRL subs would be totally invulnerable to shark bites. I mean fires everywhere and 10% HP. Barely saved it in time. Stupid.
Do you use the stable version? Because in experimental I tested the Cyclops now a few times against a bunch of Bonesharks and although I still think Bonesharks shouldn't damage the Cyclops, the damage was minimal enough for the Cyclops to endure the swarm attacks several minutes while in flank speed mode. So please check your build number, that is displayed in the upper right corner of the main menu.
On the other side, we could close the thread, as the Cyclops is now at least usable to a certain extent and a new thread should focus on what's still missing for the Cyclops. My OP is really outdated now.
I just did a run from my Base near the 4 Biomes at the north end of the Grand Reef to the front of the Aurora. Ran along the side of the Aurora near the surface in Silent Running (~4.5m/s). Experimental Build May-2017 48417.
On the trip back saw a Reaper forward swimming across my path. Never saw the head and it swam off. Nothing showed up on the hostile creature display.
Seems if you stick to Silent Running, you can avoid a lot of wildlife grief.
I agree to the closing of this thread. We are not the designers here. There isnt any point if we dont agree with the decisions that are made. All we can do is provide feedback and our opinions. The developers can decide to ignore us if necessary. It is their game after all. We are just merely renting the entertainment of their hard work. A game is like an interactive movie. The director has his own vision of how the scene is shot and considers opinions but he make the decision. Same principal applies here.
The problem with that statement is that the game was put on early access. The entire point of doing that in the first place is precisely to voice opinions, be they yey or ney, on the game's design, features and functionality so that they can make a game people will actually not just play but actively love. In turn, I actually feel the case is the opposite - there's no point making the game in the first place if we (the people meant to play it) don't like it and therefore don't play it; saying you can't satisfy everyone is a given, but that doesn't equate to not acknowledging when there's a large consensus on something among those who play it.
My big issue with what you've said is that it implies that the director/developer/creator is infallible. Your statement assumes that the the vision they have doesn't have holes in it or will have any in it as it progresses - something that the mere existence of the term "bad media" actively disproves. According to the principle you're suggesting , there shouldn't be any such thing as a bad movie, game or book, but there is - and so when someone puts something up for their community to access openly prior to the full release, it's them doing the best to counterbalance for the fact that the director's vision might not be perfect, nor will their decision necessarily be the right one. They do it to get that outside perspective beyond their inner group - that's the whole purpose behind early access.
Do you use the stable version? Because in experimental I tested the Cyclops now a few times against a bunch of Bonesharks and although I still think Bonesharks shouldn't damage the Cyclops, the damage was minimal enough for the Cyclops to endure the swarm attacks several minutes while in flank speed mode. So please check your build number, that is displayed in the upper right corner of the main menu.
On the other side, we could close the thread, as the Cyclops is now at least usable to a certain extent and a new thread should focus on what's still missing for the Cyclops. My OP is really outdated now.
Not quite for everyone, though; take a look at what happened to Markiplier when he rammed a boneshark (and this isn't even two weeks ago - just five days prior to when @Chris9183 had his experience):
- https://youtu.be/RMH2N_TiVg4?t=3m57s
You can argue you shouldn't be ramming the ramming the wildlife to begin with, but it still strikes me as ridiculous that it caused more damage to the sub than the sharks. If anything, moving while in flank speed seems to just worsen that risk because if you bash into something while going that fast, you'll possibly cause more damage than you would have avoided.
Also, I just learned that the power cell charger now consumes a 1:1 energy ratio, so they can't be used on the Cyclops to easily recoup lost energy. Make of that what you will.
Comments
There's a perfect reason for building a midway station at the Lost River:
The Seamoth can reach it and go back to surface in no time and the Prawn suit can use it as a base for explorations at the Lava Zone. This would allow a gameplay that could avoid using the Cyclops, if there wasn't this omnipotent Sea Dragon going through rock at the Lava Zone. If you want to bring the resources down there the best option might be a Seamoth with 3 slots extra cargo. That should set up a small base in no time.
About diving action without the Cyclops:
With my 800+ game hours I only have respect for the leviathans when I am diving with my suit, because they are faster than the player can swim. And as only the Sea Dragon is off limits to a defensive and speedy Seamoth it makes him the only Leviathan to fear. All other creatures I usually outmaneuver with pure swimming speed (including swarms of bonesharks) and simply take the very rare hits I get. Always worked so far in endless hours and now even with Warpers and Lava lizards, although these are the most unpredictable and dangerous with their shot abilities.
If you can't do that you have the wrong equipment (or are too heavy) and probably not enough training. But I don't expect other players to do this, so yes you are right, that typically it would be too much, fighting the Sea Dragon with the stasis rifle with all the other Warpers and Lava Lizards around you. Not to forget that the stasis doesn't prevent the Sea Dragon from spitting fire, so you shouldn't stasis him frontal. So for anyone to have a more peaceful gameplay I think using the Cyclops in silent running is the only option at all.
Getting the Cyclops to the Lost River:
I think with the method of using the shields only against rock collision I could even try the route with no Crabsquids and Warpers, but lots of Spinesharks. But the main thing of getting the Cyclops down there is probably that once you have reached the Lost River, the Cyclops maneuvering will get far less painful afterwards. So the real pain is probably that the Cyclops can only be constructed at the surface and each time you would loose it to the Sea Dragon you'd have to do an extremely ugly navigation part again.
Come to think of shield usage. It might be best to just get the Cyclops down damaged and weld afterwards where no leviathan is there. The shield method is really only a must in Sea Dragon territory where you can't exit to repair. Which means actually only 1 small tight passage near the castle. With that the energy problem should be solved (sadly not the ugly navigation).
About making the Sea Dragon super dangerous:
I like the Idea of the Sea Dragon being a dangerous problem to fear and not easy to overcome and the devs thought so too, making him how he is now. But ... and that is important ... the main problem of a non-lethal game with no weapons against the Sea Dragon combined with the extreme poor maneuverability of the Cyclops and the extreme poor creature AI/pathfinding needed for stealth gameplay forced the devs to play tricks: Creatures blinded by silent running and the Cyclops still invincible if the player isn't inside. And this is destroying immersion completely.
With the bad Cyclops navigation there should be only these ways to deal with the Sea Dragon:
@Jacke
If you've 400+ hours and never been down deep, than I must assume that the majority of Subnautica players never tested the Cyclops down at the Lava Zone. And therefore can't understand the problems the Cyclops will have with the Sea Dragon.
Of course it's somewhat funny to see the Cyclops suffer some managable but annoying damage against the Reaper. Because with the Seamoth you could simply shock the Reaper the moment he grabs you and therefore you could go through swarms of Reapers with minimal damage, while such a Reaper swarm would quickly sink a Cyclops.
So considering the threats I've been reading about, I'm not really looking forward to what's down in the DGR, LR, and LZs.
Part of the reason I've not gone deep in Subnautica is in my previous games, I still had plenty to explore and do at shallower depths. I'd not had the Modification Station to make the Pressure Compensators MK2 and MK3 until right before I'd gone to the Aurora. And often I'd find after doing that and going back, I'd lose enthusiasm to continue with my Subnautica games. I'd be gone a few months, then there'd be a new release or two, and I'd go at it again.
This time around, my time out of game was longer and the changes had mostly moved on to the depths. I'd also learned more and my exploration prior to the Aurora would include more dives to the Jelly Shroom Caves and other 200-350m depths. Also I was reading the forums more and knew the issues were mostly with things at depths in zones I'd not gone into before.
It seems the Cyclops got much tougher and less damagable. I feel I no longer need the shields to get through tight terrain and recently went from the Grand Reef past the abondoned base to the Lost River with flank speed - passing the Crabsquids and Warpers before they realized what happened - with less than 5% damage at that part of the map. I mainly used cam 1 for going through that narrow terrain, although I confess that I have most of the map memorized and know that route by heart. Zero shield usage and no sonar, as the cam view itself is good to see and avoid bottom damage.
My advice for you: If the Cyclops stays that tough you can train navigating the Cyclops based on cam 1 in silent running and sometimes check the top cam if you are unsure to hit the ceiling. Don't try driving the Cyclops with direct sight, as you probably don't know the terrain well enough and the direct sight is far more dark and fuzzy as well as not bottom view friendly.
If you get lost in terrain it's best to explore it with the Seamoth until Lost River and with the Prawn until you get near the castle, where the 2 Sea Dragons swarm around it. I only wish the Prawn suit would have a decoy launcher arm instead of a totally useless torpedo arm. You probably wish the Prawn would have a Stasis rifle arm instead.
* Realistic visibility. Right now sonar is pretty much required.
* Sonar scanlines visible through the steering wheel for going down. Because, still blind.
* Some bugger of option for creatures. the seamoth can zap and they bugger of for x duration. Something similar would work also for the cyclops. You can make downsides to it. Just make it realistic considering what the seamoth can do!
* Smaller lonesome creatures should be wary or scared and not come close to begin with, regardless of movement speed.
* Smaller pack creatures should only attack when they have sufficient numbers. the 'oh I am safe here they aint attacking and a moment later blam'.
* Bigger creatures should give a real danger.
* Biggest creatures are the boss and we aint. I would argue the very hardshelled reefbacks count as this also. We move for them and not the other way.. if we dont.. dunno, tail slap us or something?
* Silent running is LOL. Every creature with eyes suddenly goes blind? Id almost argue to make it camouflage. (not cloak) Perhaps make it so you cant go into silent when you are agrod by something to big unless decoy? Wont work if the cyclops is more fun to use.
Im all for making a harsh end game, but this cyclops man.. come on.
But again, the problem with that is how literally none of the needed base-building materials (Titanium, Lithium, Quartz, Copper and Common Coral for electronics, etc) exist down there. Furthermore, I disagree that the seamoth can "reach it and go back to surface in no time" due to the high aggression of the River Prowlers and the vulnerability of the thing to Crabsquid EMP's. You'd be every bit as unlikely to go far in that without taking damage as you would the Cyclops - more likely in fact, due to the absence of silent running. Hell, if the (comparatively more fragile) Seamoth gets destroyed in-transit and you get stranded down there without any means of reaching the surface again, you're screwed. Same with the Prawn; Sea Dragon aggression makes it too much of a risk and/or hassle to do. All together, building a base just to be a go-between and it might actually be more trouble than to just use the Cyclops, unpleasant an experience as that currently is in my opinion. It still comes down to the same issue as before - gameplay-wise, it's not fun; it's taxing and strenuous to use, but the workaround feels just as much, if not moreso. I'd really rather the Cyclops just get fixed.
No offense, but your gameplay experience is a lot different from mine, than; I've yet to meet even a single Leivathan I could outmanuver in the Seamoth if and/or when they spot me. Hell, even the bonesharks keep pace with me - and that's not counting when one I can't see smacks into me from the side. It happened so often that I outright refused to take the Seamoth anywhere without hull reinforcement to survive getting caught and the electrical defense system to drive it away, as literally every time I used it entailed needing both. Couple that with not having any safe spot to repair it in otherwise, and using the Cyclops to transport it became a necessity for me.
I've ended up like that even with ultralight gear (minus the reinforced dive suit, since you can't survive the LZ without one) and literally nothing else in the inventory aside from the stasis rifle - which cost me a lot of time since I had no seaglide to motor it back to the sub with. Personally, I don't know if it's a matter of "training" or not - it feels more like the design of the level itself is meant to discourage you from doing anything outside the dev's personal pathway. Then again, I admit it might also be that I'm simply poor at FPS-style reaction timing/not used to playing things like an FPS (or at least not when it's supposed to be a discovery game), so there's that. Also, in the case of larger creatures, the hitbox for them is centered on the head - learned that with Reaper Leviathan. Simply put, on large creatures like the Sea Dragon, stasis from frontal seems like the only way to guarantee you hit them, so you pretty much have to let him charge right at you.
Like I said before, my issue with that is from the assured rapid battery drain that'd result from ensuring the ship made it down there without too much damage just from collisions. Especially since, as evidenced by Markiplier's second-most recent vid on Subnautica and IGP's vid on the full-release Silent Running, collision with the environment or even just wildlife like a boneshark can take a big chunk out of your health. Unless you have the Ion Cells to mitigate the drain, you either spam the shields till you bleed the batteries dry or you just constantly rack up damage. At some point, it just feels like you don't get equal returns for the effort, in my opinion - I get it's supposed to feel like a challenge, but this feels more like pulling teeth to me.
IDK - considering everything between that and the Primary Containment Facility are Sea Dragon territory, I don't know where you could take it after that point that it'd be safe to leave alone (although I base this off the assumption that the devs are probably going to remove the "Cyclops is invincible when you leave it" thing to prevent what they'd consider exploiting). Moreover, I think the energy problem would still be an issue simply in how much you'd already have to expend just to get down there, since the ugly navigation means chances of collisions (with either the environment or creatures) is annoyingly high - and that's not counting the bloody lava larva draining the batteries. It basically feels like once you decide to go to the LZ, you're committed and can only go back or forwards - no middle ground. Or at least that's how it feels to me.
Well, that I actually can't argue; it feels like the devs ended up relying more on features or mechanics obfuscating flaws in things (creature AI, Cyclops hull strength, etc) rather than fully fixing or properly balancing everything.
I hope that's the case; I haven't seen much activity on the Trello or Discord about changes, but I might not be looking in the right places. Again, I hope that's the case. I'll find out over the course of the week.
Only if they fixed how the cameras have lights that automatically go on and draw creatures to you even if in silent running. Otherwise, I'd have no choice to but use direct sight in order to stay undetected. That being said though, I do know the way - it's just that knowing the direction and dodging everything in the path are two separate things.
Knowing the terrain and threading the Cyclops through it are separate things, though; IDK if any amount of scouting with smaller vehicles is going to tell you how to make the larger one fit as opposed to simply telling you where the opening is.
You outrun most baddies, and the seamoths shock upgrade encourages the rest to bugger something else.
Just take a battery and a welder with you for the bit of damage you receive and all is well.
Than again, I did make my base there first with the cyclops, but in theory can be done on seamoth.
Just to correct something. It's different from a movie. We paid to be beta testers. That is what buying an "Early Access" game means. And, in many cases, "blunt speaking", like what was being done in this thread, can do wonders, instead of the feedback and hope they will not ignore us. You paid money for this, remember?
I was going to post a little rant here, but because it got out of context of this thread, I'll create another one.
Do you use the stable version? Because in experimental I tested the Cyclops now a few times against a bunch of Bonesharks and although I still think Bonesharks shouldn't damage the Cyclops, the damage was minimal enough for the Cyclops to endure the swarm attacks several minutes while in flank speed mode. So please check your build number, that is displayed in the upper right corner of the main menu.
On the other side, we could close the thread, as the Cyclops is now at least usable to a certain extent and a new thread should focus on what's still missing for the Cyclops. My OP is really outdated now.
On the trip back saw a Reaper forward swimming across my path. Never saw the head and it swam off. Nothing showed up on the hostile creature display.
Seems if you stick to Silent Running, you can avoid a lot of wildlife grief.
The problem with that statement is that the game was put on early access. The entire point of doing that in the first place is precisely to voice opinions, be they yey or ney, on the game's design, features and functionality so that they can make a game people will actually not just play but actively love. In turn, I actually feel the case is the opposite - there's no point making the game in the first place if we (the people meant to play it) don't like it and therefore don't play it; saying you can't satisfy everyone is a given, but that doesn't equate to not acknowledging when there's a large consensus on something among those who play it.
My big issue with what you've said is that it implies that the director/developer/creator is infallible. Your statement assumes that the the vision they have doesn't have holes in it or will have any in it as it progresses - something that the mere existence of the term "bad media" actively disproves. According to the principle you're suggesting , there shouldn't be any such thing as a bad movie, game or book, but there is - and so when someone puts something up for their community to access openly prior to the full release, it's them doing the best to counterbalance for the fact that the director's vision might not be perfect, nor will their decision necessarily be the right one. They do it to get that outside perspective beyond their inner group - that's the whole purpose behind early access.
Not quite for everyone, though; take a look at what happened to Markiplier when he rammed a boneshark (and this isn't even two weeks ago - just five days prior to when @Chris9183 had his experience):
- https://youtu.be/RMH2N_TiVg4?t=3m57s
You can argue you shouldn't be ramming the ramming the wildlife to begin with, but it still strikes me as ridiculous that it caused more damage to the sub than the sharks. If anything, moving while in flank speed seems to just worsen that risk because if you bash into something while going that fast, you'll possibly cause more damage than you would have avoided.
Also, I just learned that the power cell charger now consumes a 1:1 energy ratio, so they can't be used on the Cyclops to easily recoup lost energy. Make of that what you will.
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/150950/cyclops-gameplay-improvement
more problems regarding cyclops are the lights, your hand-torch is probably stronger.
then there is the annoying steering wheel; no sub in the world has a steering wheel, and it's exactly where you would like to see whats going on.
https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/147236/cyclops-no-vision-for-first-person-driving
glad to see im not the only one to realize these things are ruining the game.