If this is the route the devs are going (and for the record, I'm perfectly ok with using the Cyclops as a mobile base as long as the balance issues are fixed), then we also need to have a sensible route to actually get the Cyclops down to the ILZ. The tunnel at the front of the Aurora is still open (for the moment at least), but based on discord it sounds like they're planning on closing it up to force the player to go through the Lost River so they don't miss story content.
I just took a Cyclops down the Blood Kelp trench into the Lost River in a survival game and that route is not at all suitable for a vehicle the size of a Cyclops. Even discovering that route is a major issue right now given the poor visibility in the Blood Kelp zone (and the excessive sonar power usage), much less navigating it without constantly bumping into things.
Except that it's not actually a mobile base in this state; a mobile base would at least have some form of stability (by that, I mean you could at least feel safe in it outside of the more dangerous areas); as it stands, it's just a glorified transport - and as fragile as one, to boot. Again, you cannot tell me that a pack of sharks doing more damage than leviathans is balanced.
And don't even get me started on the Discord; it just reminds me that the devs don't seem to remember Subnautica was supposed to be an open-world game, not a purely story-driven one - especially considering that with how much is in the LR already, the player wouldn't miss it regardless of if the Aurora corridor was open or not.
Somewhere I have posted how I drive the Cyclops now. I constantly use sonar and shields to knock myself forcefully through the depths towards the prison, while I avoid using the cams anymore and just drive by sight while my shields are up. With creatures nearby I usually use silent running that stops all aggresion towards the Cyclops with some exceptions, like the Crabsquid EMPs.
My problem with this when I tried it was how energy-intensive it was; the shields drain 50 energy per use and the sonar drains 10, so unless you either (A) have a ton of extra power cells or (B) have the Ion Power Cells already installed, you're going to drain a whole power cell just getting into the Lost River from the DGR, let alone making it to the ILZ and ALZ. Plus, the impacts cause sounds of their own, which might aggro the creatures you're trying to avoid anyway.
Somewhere I have posted how I drive the Cyclops now. I constantly use sonar and shields to knock myself forcefully through the depths towards the prison, while I avoid using the cams anymore and just drive by sight while my shields are up. With creatures nearby I usually use silent running that stops all aggresion towards the Cyclops with some exceptions, like the Crabsquid EMPs.
My problem with this when I tried it was how energy-intensive it was; the shields drain 50 energy per use and the sonar drains 10, so unless you either (A) have a ton of extra power cells or (B) have the Ion Power Cells already installed, you're going to drain a whole power cell just getting into the Lost River from the DGR, let alone making it to the ILZ and ALZ. Plus, the impacts cause sounds of their own, which might aggro the creatures you're trying to avoid anyway.
1st: Yes, its engergy-intensive. You'll need ion power cells and a lot of them. But remember that we can recharge them at bases. Also we can use the energy efficiency module for the Cyclops. I tried going down from the surface and towards the prison and had to switch a full set of 6 ion power cells down in the Lava zone. You might try to avoid using that strategy until endgame or you have gathered enough ion power cells and power intensive bases. I usually wait a long time before building the Cyclops (unless for testing purposes).
2nd: Sonar doesnt't seem to aggro the creatures. I tested it in silent running with the Crabsquids and Warpers and got no damaging attack, just the disrupting EMPs that don't damage the hull. Didn't test it with all creatures so far, but I assume that silent running simply blinds all creatures. I still have to test that though.
So if you want to have an easy Cyclops time early in game I'd say ... forget it. You'll need all upgrades to feel well with the Cyclops. But if you're fully equipped with all stuff, then my method works. With shields I can avoid driving in cam mode and ignore fearing damaging my Cyclops from simple terrain collisions. That is really a major advantage. The energy price is managable later in game.
If this is the route the devs are going (and for the record, I'm perfectly ok with using the Cyclops as a mobile base as long as the balance issues are fixed), then we also need to have a sensible route to actually get the Cyclops down to the ILZ. The tunnel at the front of the Aurora is still open (for the moment at least), but based on discord it sounds like they're planning on closing it up to force the player to go through the Lost River so they don't miss story content.
I just took a Cyclops down the Blood Kelp trench into the Lost River in a survival game and that route is not at all suitable for a vehicle the size of a Cyclops. Even discovering that route is a major issue right now given the poor visibility in the Blood Kelp zone (and the excessive sonar power usage), much less navigating it without constantly bumping into things.
Except that it's not actually a mobile base in this state; a mobile base would at least have some form of stability (by that, I mean you could at least feel safe in it outside of the more dangerous areas); as it stands, it's just a glorified transport - and as fragile as one, to boot. Again, you cannot tell me that a pack of sharks doing more damage than leviathans is balanced.
And don't even get me started on the Discord; it just reminds me that the devs don't seem to remember Subnautica was supposed to be an open-world game, not a purely story-driven one - especially considering that with how much is in the LR already, the player wouldn't miss it regardless of if the Aurora corridor was open or not.
I agree that right now the Cyclops is in desperate need of a rebalance (the bonesharks in general need to be toned way down, a single one took out my parked seamoth while I was exploring the wreck in the underwater islands and I've seen them in biomes that they're not supposed to be in after I've driven my Cyclops around). For my use case, it still is able to serve as a mobile base since it provides lots of storage, a fabricator, and growbeds (and even infinite energy with the power cell charger glitch). It just needs to be parked farther away than I would like from hostile areas (especially with the silent running turning itself off when I'm not in the sub).
1st: Yes, its engergy-intensive. You'll need ion power cells and a lot of them. But remember that we can recharge them at bases. Also we can use the energy efficiency module for the Cyclops. I tried going down from the surface and towards the prison and had to switch a full set of 6 ion power cells down in the Lava zone. You might try to avoid using that strategy until endgame or you have gathered enough ion power cells and power intensive bases. I usually wait a long time before building the Cyclops (unless for testing purposes).
IDK what good that does if you're far off and away from your base in places like the Lost River or Lava Zones, or even the Dunes. That's basically saying you can't ever stray too far from your base, which defeats the purpose of the Cyclops being a mobile base. Plus, the Energy-Efficiency Module only cuts back on passive energy-use while traveling - it didn't reduce the energy consumption of other mods, or at least not from what I saw.
Also, considering it's one of the only vehicles that can't be grappled or grabbed by the leviathans, I find that I can't go beyond the safe shallows or even get to the Aurora without having the Cyclops made, nor explore any of the deeper wrecks like those at the dunes or mountains. IDK, maybe it's just something about how I play, but I just haven't really found this method to work all that well
2nd: Sonar doesnt't seem to aggro the creatures. I tested it in silent running with the Crabsquids and Warpers and got no damaging attack, just the disrupting EMPs that don't damage the hull. Didn't test it with all creatures so far, but I assume that silent running simply blinds all creatures. I still have to test that though.
I wasn't talking about the sonar in the first place; I was talking about the nose caused by bashing against the walls with the shields up when trying to brute-force your way down into narrow areas - I said the noise from that might draw creatures toward you. Plus, silent running doesn't make you totally invisible - if something hits you accidentally, it registers you. Worse, external cameras having auto-on lights means that using them instantly alerts creatures even if silent. Even bigger issue is how the Sea Dragon will register the player-character the moment they leave the ship, even if they're on the other side of the ILZ cavern - and if it's too close to you, you climbing back into the sub might lead to it bashing into the Cyclops as it chases you and alerting it to the sub's presence. Simply put, in some cases it's not enough but in others it acts like complete invisibility to the point of unrealism.
So if you want to have an easy Cyclops time early in game I'd say ... forget it. You'll need all upgrades to feel well with the Cyclops. But if you're fully equipped with all stuff, then my method works. With shields I can avoid driving in cam mode and ignore fearing damaging my Cyclops from simple terrain collisions. That is really a major advantage. The energy price is managable later in game.
Early game is one thing, but as it stands it feels like you need the thing to explore any place beyond the shallows and plateaus - especially since aggroed reapers can potentially chase you all the way back to said shallows. Not to mention that... well, hearing you describe it like that, it makes it feel even less like the Cyclops is properly balanced - like either you have all the stuff you mentioned, or it's either flat out unusable or too much of a pain to use otherwise, which runs counterproductive to the devs' original intent to encourage usability of the Cyclops. I don't mean to be rude, but what good does it do to say "my method works" if it requires you to have already visited the ILZ just to get the needed Ion Cells (which you pretty much can't get without the Cyclops already built anyway?) - it just feels too... well, in a word, wasteful and grindy and ultimately not fun to do, because it's basically saying you either must wait until we have all the stuff for your one single approach or to otherwise not bother. That's not really encouraging it as being useful - To say nothing of what happens if you accidentally aggro a Sea Dragon and can't use your shields in time because they're on cooldown.
After Reading all this and then going into the game only to find my Cyclops Heavily damaged just sitting outside my Base in the safe shallows, Not touching anything nothing around it. I find this a bit alarming. I took a med pack out of the dispenser and the sub was rolling and clanging all over the place. I did this several times checking this out. ( I haven't been on for a couple of weeks because of some RL stuff. ) I come back going great they finally updated the Sub only to find ....The King of the Seas's is now the mouse of the Sea's. ( Will have to Change that proud Name ( The Pioneer ) to something a little less Grand i guess. )
I guess i won't be taking it anywhere else now. Don't want to lose everything I've built into it. I didn't mind the update, but it seems to be made of Tinfoil now. Going to take a while to unload it. Then just park it in the Barn.
What ever happened to the Docking system they were going to do, so you could Dock it at your base ? It already has the lower hatch to work with. The Sub should have a upper hatch and a escape system in place to. Not very well designed for emergency's for a sub that size,( Fire control that should be a normal redundant system. ) And should be a main stay and already a part of the Sub's systems on a Sub that size. Also you do have oxygen tanks why not use them to help with the smoke instead of breathing it. ( Just doesn't make sense )
They need to get a bit better balance on it's Destructibility. ( It''s way to easy to send to the Bottom as a Reef ) Sand sharks and those lot should do minor damage to a heavy armored sub if any, as that's what it would be to dive the depths it can go and be and exploratory ship. The tech also would be way ahead of now days tech as well. A 150 years is a lot of innovation in the tech and metal alloys world's. Next time you do a repair look at how thick the metal is. How come we don't have Repair bot's to help with the repairs as well ? Also Sub's use ballast systems to remain upright. Thats a weighted system in some smaller subs. And if a Mini sub has electrical defenses why wouldn't a bigger Sub like the Cyclops also have those same defenses.
The system needs a lot of balancing before i use it anymore and that's a shame as i like the sub myself, though generally use the Mech to do a lot of my exploring. And like here on good ol earth most sea creatures leave subs alone it's a rare and i mean a very rare instance that a Sub is attacked. Smaller Creatures generally run from what they see as a predator due to it's size. I can see the larger creatures doing damage to a certain extent. The Giant ones especially though Giant-ism generally leads to slowness in large creatures these are way to fast for their Size.
I use the Sub as a supply vessel and taxi for my Mech or mini Sub only. Would be nice to be able to dock the Mini on the back of the Sub.
It also takes time to Speedup and to slow down in Water.
How about fixing it so you can turn off the Red Lights Dev's. Red lights can cause problems in some people.
Ok, I have no Idea why everyone says it's impossible to pilot the cyclops to the ALZ.
Here's what I do:
Get this stuff:
A cyclops with depth , sonar , shield and fire supression upgrades
A prawn with depth and reinforcement upgrades, and a drill arm, a grappling arm and a propulsion cannon arm.
A stasis rifle, A propulsion cannon, a welder, a few medkits, a thermoblade, lots of water and a scanner
4 purple precursor keys
1 orange precursor key
Leave and go to the sparse reef and catch about 15 reginalds with the prop cannon
Descend into the trench, using cameras to see if I'm clear
Get out in prawn, scout out area
Stasis rifle the crabsquids, then activate shields AND GUN IT
Stay near roof of LR, avoiding river prowlers
Go to DRF in prawn, shooting random crap at warpers to scare them off
Loot the Base
Go to lost river lab (in prawn)
Loot the lab
Go down into the ALZ corridor, using sonar, and staying near the roof
Park cyclops inside corridor, go to lava castle base
Unlock blueprints, activate the teleporter, and grab the blue key.
Use shield to get to the ALZ entrance, and use ahead flank the whole way there
Park cyclops above PCF
You're there. Boom shaka laka.
Ok, you know how to do it, NOW STOP COMPLAINING!
Not quite that easy, actually:
The upgrades you mentioned require going through predator-filled territory, where anything less than the Prawn will be torn apart - and to get the Prawn, you need to have made it through Reaper territory to the Aurora. That's not even counting the grinding time to get all the stuff to make the upgrades - and you're basically reinforcing our point because you're saying the sub's unplayable otherwise.
To get the Prawn, you basically have to have the Cyclops first - this should technically be done before trying to get any of the upgrades for the Cyclops... which, again, not really reinforcing the idea of it being worth it.
As is mentioned before, using external cameras draws creatures to you even if you're in silent running (as Markiplier learned, both with Bonesharks and Reaper Leviathans) - so you basically can't use the cameras if you're in dangerous territory.
Stasis rifle only lasts 30 seconds at most; not enough time to get back to the sub and get past those creatures, especially not the faster ones and especially not if you have to maneuver through tight spaces.
Constant use of sonar and/or shields is inadvisable unless you already have the Ion Cells or the patience to grind away with a cell charger - either way, fun with the Cyclops is lessened.
Forgive the pun, but it feels more like "Boom shaka nada zero zip zilch bupkis" - largely because I think your list is... well, self-defeating to your argument. Look at all the above - that's what we have to do just to make the Cyclops usable? Especially since, with how high Sea Dragon aggression is, just so much as one encounter can get you trashed if you make even one mistake in the process - that's not fun; that's a chore.
To put it simply; your method doesn't fix the actual issue - which is that many, it's not fun or even really enjoyable to pilot the Cyclops as it is right now.
All I read was yes I can build a fence in this game, it just requires 9000 steps, makes no sense and will take 5 years but hey I CAN. So its fine... That is not something I would call an argument even if I was so wasted I couldn't tell floor and ceiling apart.
kingkumacancels Work: distracted by Dwarf FortressJoin Date: 2015-09-25Member: 208137Members
I've made it through the reaper territory with a seaglide. It's not that hard, and you can always outmanuver them in a seamoth.
I always get the PRAWN first. It's an open- world game. There is no correct way to do anything.
There are only ampeels in the blood kelp trench, not bonesharks or reapers.
If you use the stasis rifle and then use the seaglide to get back, you'll probably make it. I outran 4 crabsquids this way, and they are just as fast as a cyclops on ahead flank.
You can get 20 uses of shields on one full charge. That's plenty of juice. I use 2 power cell chargers to great effect.
Also, for the sea dragons, you can just activate shields and use the fire suppression system.
I never said I fixed the issue, I was just saying it was possible. As I said, there is no correct way to play subnautica, and I thought I'd just share a few methods for getting in and out for people who want / need help. If you enjoy yelling at / hating on the devs (which is not really going to change much), go right ahead and ignore my suggestions. You don't have to use them.
I've made it through the reaper territory with a seaglide. It's not that hard, and you can always outmanuver them in a seamoth.
I always get the PRAWN first. It's an open- world game. There is no correct way to do anything.
There are only ampeels in the blood kelp trench, not bonesharks or reapers.
If you use the stasis rifle and then use the seaglide to get back, you'll probably make it. I outran 4 crabsquids this way, and they are just as fast as a cyclops on ahead flank.
You can get 20 uses of shields on one full charge. That's plenty of juice. I use 2 power cell chargers to great effect.
Also, for the sea dragons, you can just activate shields and use the fire suppression system.
I never said I fixed the issue, I was just saying it was possible. As I said, there is no correct way to play subnautica, and I thought I'd just share a few methods for getting in and out for people who want / need help. If you enjoy yelling at / hating on the devs (which is not really going to change much), go right ahead and ignore my suggestions. You don't have to use them.
Doesn't change any of what I said:
You have; not everybody is going to be so lucky. I myself have never made it to the Aurora without at least nearing one. Also, that's actually a fallacy - the Seamoth moves slower than the Leviathans do; that's been a fact since day one. It still doesn't feel worth the risk, let alone the effort needed to take it.
Why not number it as such first, than? Also, considering the dev's seeming intent to block off any access to the ILZ outside of the Lost River, it doesn't seem very open-world anymore - even more-so if it feels there's a forced progression such as, again, needing a spicific list just to make the Cyclops usable.
Every time I went there, I found Crabsquids and definitely the odd Boneshark at times in addition to Ampeels; which Blood Kelp Trench are you visiting? (and that's not meant as an insult or dig - there's two Blood Trenches if I recall; are the fauna between the two different?) Also, considering the Reaper's aggro-range, the idea of them following you that far if they spot you isn't impossible, considering the Blood Kelp borders the dunes.
Again, no; even with the Seaglide, it's at least a five-to-ten second trip, plus another five for climbing animations to enter the sub - and that's depending on if you have to enter silent running by way of not being able to stasis everything around you at once (after all, the rifle can only make one stasis bubble at a time). Also, note the keyword probably in your statement - if you have to do all that work for something that's not only doesn't guarantee to have a result but have to do it just to progress anywhere, it's going to get tiresome and annoying in short order. Again, not exactly reinforcing the idea that the Cyclops is actually worth all that trouble to play.
You're assuming (A) full charge is always going to be possible if you've been running the sub for a bit, (B) not taking into account the power-drain of other mods like sonar or even that of casual running speed, and (C) in the case of the ILZ, the added issue of Lava Larva causing additional drain - which you cannot remove without aggroing the Sea Dragon as it picks up your character extremely easily now. Power cell chargers don't do that great an effect if you drain the ship faster than they can recharge - and that's to say nothing of my previously-mentioned "it becomes a grindy chore" issue regarding the cell chargers unless you already have the Ion Cells to make.
Again, unless you already have the Ion Cells in the first place, you're not going to be able to spam all those mods without the risk of running out of power - you're basically saying the thing's useless until after the Thermal Plant is already visited.
Your exact words were "I have no Idea why everyone says it's impossible to pilot the cyclops to the ALZ" and "Ok, you know how to do it, NOW STOP COMPLAINING!" - if it was a joke, the tone didn't carry through; if not, than it makes it look like you thought it was just everyone else doing it wrong. Furthermore, it does in fact feel like the concept of a "correct way" to play Subanutica is becoming the norm - like I said, the devs wanting to close all access to the LZ aside from the LR feels like it reinforces that.
Again, the issue isn't that your suggestions don't work (though I'd argue the success ratio at points). The issue is that they don't do anything to fix the actual problem - which is that using the Cyclops doesn't feel enjoyable; it feels like a chore that needs more effort than its worth to make work.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
As a side note, I actually did in the meantime see how fast I could move in a prawn.
If you use the grappling as a swing you can indeed get mad mad speeds.
Tested some more. Shields definitely don't seem to disrupt silent running or attract the Sea Dragon or another creature. With sonar I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to depend on the creature type. I think those lava lizards damaged my sub while using sonar without shields. But I'm not sure, as they also randomly spit fire and this could be the reason. Nevertheless I tend to use the sonar in dark areas and repair the sub later.
Without sonar you won't have much fun with navigating the Cyclops, as the devs made Cyclops sight the worst of all vehicles. The floodlight designer should be banned from Alterra as this light is reflecting back to you, effectively blinding you. Without it your vision is far darker than with the other vehicles. Not that it is any fun navigating the Cyclops at all, but no one should drive the Cyclops without sonar (except at the Lava Sea). I know its energy intensive, but I rather gather 2 more ion power cells than skip sonar navigation.
As I've already told, driving with shields allows me almost to drive the Cyclops as straight as the Seamoth, so again I gather more ion power cells and stick to recharging instead doing an awful cam navigation, switching views while getting no HUD info and cam lights attracting some sharklike creatures.
Now getting that much ion power needs time and traveling to the lava castle. You can do that with the Prawn suit once it is fully enhanced with grappling hook and jump jets for navigation and pressure and damage plating to be tough enough for some damage and the depth. The main problem for newcomers would be finding the castle entrance before the Sea Dragon rips you apart.
So you probably need the stasis rifle for that operation. If the Sea Dragon is coming, you have to exit the Prawn and stasis him, quickly reenter and proceed. And repeat it. On the other side if you exactly know where to go, you can just take the damage for some time and enter the castle damaged, where you can repair inside.
Less risky of course is to simply use a Cyclops with silent running to get near the castle until you can see the entrance. And probably any newcomer is supposed to search the lava caves with the Cyclops, because the Prawn operations with the Sea Dragon around only allow direct well known actions.
I think the Sea Dragon has a too omnipotent gaze that unfairly goes through rock. He can swim right before your silent running Cyclops and never touch it (tested it almost a dozen times), yet when you approach him hidden behind rocks with your Prawn or just diving, he will immediately "see" you through the rock and might even grab through rock, fetch you and release you past the clipping, dropping you into the illegal void. Totally unbalanced. So the best approach right now is to directly approach your target and Sea Dragon and stasis him and be as quick as possible.
I've tested going to the castle and prison with the Prawn only and managed to do both one after the other with the help of the stasis rifle and even without if you are quick repairing, because the Sea Dragon might need more time to return to attack. But I fear that method is not as reliable as using stasis, which works 100% safe.
I must confess, that because the Cyclops is a pain to drive, I usually avoid doing anything else with the Cyclops than driving it from my surface homebase to the prison. The Cyclops will probably as much useful as the upcoming rocket, which will only be used once. So in the end I don't even use that much energy, because the Cyclops is probably only good for a few operations at the dangerous Lava Zone or maybe even the Lost River.
Some operations that would make the Cyclops more fun driving:
reduce the size a bit - it's simply practically a bit too big, so it's more than a pain than exciting to travel to the Lost River
for the same reason the Cyclops should be able to tilt (dive with its nose) to better get through tight spaces
the Cyclops should have a fixed cockpit HUD and work with hotkeys - or do the devs already aim at coop multiplayer for Cyclops driving?
only leviathans and special creatures should damage the Cyclops seriously
What would make the stealth/silent gameplay work:
a creature detection range based on vehicle attraction (noise & size)
decoys like the thumpers in "Dune" to be placed that lure leviathans away
a stealth shield that only works when the Cyclops isn't moving ( immersive way to park the Cyclops at the prison)
What would make fire/flood fighting work:
damage has to take some time, otherwise the Cyclops is gone before you can fight anything
force shields that slowly go down, so you have time to leave the cockpit and fight fire or flooding
in case the Cyclops is lost it needs an emergency stasis field for a few seconds before exploding to allow you escaping
The problem with non silent running methods against the Sea Dragon is, that they need correct timing and a bit of luck, while silent running is 100% safe at that time (stable build) and not needing any reflexes at all. If the Sea Dragon attacks while you're stuck with shield recovery time, then you must switch to decoys. And there is no hotkey HUD for quick action. Also, flank speed should make the Cyclops much faster than a Sea Dragon, but I think the flank speed is not good enough.
yeah, the flank speed has to be faster, I agree. Also, the park - shield was a good Idea as well.
Oh, and if you don't like the cyclops:
don't use it. It's that simple.
Except that the Sea Dragon's high aggro level means you pretty much need to have the Cyclops and it's silent running to have any chance of making it through any of the Lava Zones. Ergo, you kinda need to use it - plus the devs talked about cutting down the Prawn's power source so that it can't be abused as the only exploratory vehicle.
Suffice to say, it most certainly is not that simple. Nor does it do anything to fix the issues in the Cyclops.
As a side note, I actually did in the meantime see how fast I could move in a prawn.
If you use the grappling as a swing you can indeed get mad mad speeds.
If you want to move really, really fast in a prawn, try standing in a precursor teleporter and clicking the prawn to enter it. Fastest way to the edge of the map (through terrain) and into death that I'm aware of.
As a side note, I actually did in the meantime see how fast I could move in a prawn.
If you use the grappling as a swing you can indeed get mad mad speeds.
If you want to move really, really fast in a prawn, try standing in a precursor teleporter and clicking the prawn to enter it. Fastest way to the edge of the map (through terrain) and into death that I'm aware of.
Tested some more. Shields definitely don't seem to disrupt silent running or attract the Sea Dragon or another creature. With sonar I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to depend on the creature type. I think those lava lizards damaged my sub while using sonar without shields. But I'm not sure, as they also randomly spit fire and this could be the reason. Nevertheless I tend to use the sonar in dark areas and repair the sub later.
... that isn't even what I said, though; I said the sounds of the shields impacting against the terrain as you try to brute-force ram it against things is what might draw the thing, not simply turning the shields on as-is.
Without sonar you won't have much fun with navigating the Cyclops, as the devs made Cyclops sight the worst of all vehicles. The floodlight designer should be banned from Alterra as this light is reflecting back to you, effectively blinding you. Without it your vision is far darker than with the other vehicles. Not that it is any fun navigating the Cyclops at all, but no one should drive the Cyclops without sonar (except at the Lava Sea). I know its energy intensive, but I rather gather 2 more ion power cells than skip sonar navigation.
But that's literally what I said was already a problem; unless you already have the Ion Power Cells to use, all this stuff may as well be kept in the locker until you get down to the ILZ on your own anyway. It's basically that you either need to find and build all these mods first or you can't even take it out anywhere, and that doesn't encourage using it in exploration (which you'll be forced to do because of Sea Dragon aggro for everything that's not a silent running Cyclops).
As I've already told, driving with shields allows me almost to drive the Cyclops as straight as the Seamoth, so again I gather more ion power cells and stick to recharging instead doing an awful cam navigation, switching views while getting no HUD info and cam lights attracting some sharklike creatures.
But that's the same problem as above; that just doesn't feel feasible to do all the time without either a ton of cells or Ion Cells already built - and since anything from a shark upwards can damage the sub, you pretty much would need to just to get through the areas beyond the shallows, let alone to the dangerous leviathan-filled ones. To say nothing of you first needing to find the shield blueprints, which might require a prawn suit first from the Aurora and the list goes on. Long story short, it still feels a chore to manage.
Now getting that much ion power needs time and traveling to the lava castle. You can do that with the Prawn suit once it is fully enhanced with grappling hook and jump jets for navigation and pressure and damage plating to be tough enough for some damage and the depth. The main problem for newcomers would be finding the castle entrance before the Sea Dragon rips you apart.
Actually, the devs in the Trello find it an issue that you can get all the way to the ILZ and back in the Prawn, so they cut it's power down so you can't do that; according to the Trello, they increased it's power-consumption by 1/4th for the Silent Running update. https://trello.com/c/1AL1irnB/6228-exo-power-cell-drain-too-light-players-can-go-all-the-way-to-ilz-and-back-with-juice-to-spare
Long story short, IDK if you can actually do that anymore and expect to make it back out of the ILZ - especially if you have to deal with lava larva. between that and Sea Dragon aggros, I think you pretty much need to have the Cyclops to get down there, now.
So you probably need the stasis rifle for that operation. If the Sea Dragon is coming, you have to exit the Prawn and stasis him, quickly reenter and proceed. And repeat it. On the other side if you exactly know where to go, you can just take the damage for some time and enter the castle damaged, where you can repair inside.
If Jacksepticeye's most recent vid is any indication, Sea Dragons can apparently now grapple/grip the Prawn in their jaws like the Reaper can, so it's possible you might get crushed right out of the thing before that happens. Plus, the stasis rifle needs time to charge for a shot that lasts long enough to do anything, and there's the Warpers that patrol the area - it just feels like a lot can go wrong, especially if you take nothing else but the Prawn down there. https://youtu.be/wsRFPSdMx7M?t=7m54s
Less risky of course is to simply use a Cyclops with silent running to get near the castle until you can see the entrance. And probably any newcomer is supposed to search the lava caves with the Cyclops, because the Prawn operations with the Sea Dragon around only allow direct well known actions.
By your own admission though, maneuvering down there is hard unless you use the ILZ corridor, which the deves seem to plan on closing up (which is something I think is a big problem, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but I've already made my feelings on that clear in another page). If you don't already have the Ion Cells for the shields and sonar, how is getting down there via winding all the way through the Lost River going to be anything less than a chore?
I think the Sea Dragon has a too omnipotent gaze that unfairly goes through rock. He can swim right before your silent running Cyclops and never touch it (tested it almost a dozen times), yet when you approach him hidden behind rocks with your Prawn or just diving, he will immediately "see" you through the rock and might even grab through rock, fetch you and release you past the clipping, dropping you into the illegal void. Totally unbalanced. So the best approach right now is to directly approach your target and Sea Dragon and stasis him and be as quick as possible.
To stasis him effectively though, you'd have to exit the sub. Even if you managed to hit him, it would take up to the first few seconds just to get back to the prawn - and even if you do, you'd have to look out for the Warpers as well as the lizards and larva. Again, without the Cyclops, it just seems too stressful and complicated - there's a challenge and than there's unfairness; as it stands, the game's balanced so that you can't really access the ILZ without a Cyclops.
I've tested going to the castle and prison with the Prawn only and managed to do both one after the other with the help of the stasis rifle and even without if you are quick repairing, because the Sea Dragon might need more time to return to attack. But I fear that method is not as reliable as using stasis, which works 100% safe.
Like I mentioned above, though, the devs altered the Prawn so that you can't get even to the ILZ and back in one go, let alone the ALZ; they felt it was OP for the Prawn to do that. And my bigger concern comes from when the warpers teleport me out of the Prawn, leaving me panicking for a moment and scrambling to try and find it than swim back to it - doing that on the time limit of a stasis rifle seems more stressful than it's worth, in my opinion.
I must confess, that because the Cyclops is a pain to drive, I usually avoid doing anything else with the Cyclops than driving it from my surface homebase to the prison. The Cyclops will probably as much useful as the upcoming rocket, which will only be used once. So in the end I don't even use that much energy, because the Cyclops is probably only good for a few operations at the dangerous Lava Zone or maybe even the Lost River.
I just don't like that, though - the feeling that the thing is such a hassle to use that you should only use it a few times, even though the threat leviathans or sharks pose to smaller craft mean you'd need it just to explore beyond the shallows. Like you yourself said, the methods you outlined have to be either pulled off completely perfectly in one go or else you're going to get screwed - that's not very enjoyable gameplay in my opinion.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
For my 2 cents, I never had to use a cyclops to get to the aurora.
I do it with seaglide or seamoth just fine. Just hog the aurora more and you are usually in the aurora area before you ever see a reaper.
Aka
* Travel to middle of Aurora.
* Go left to travel past hull.
* Go inside.
* Win.
For my 2 cents, I never had to use a cyclops to get to the aurora.
I do it with seaglide or seamoth just fine. Just hog the aurora more and you are usually in the aurora area before you ever see a reaper.
Aka
* Travel to middle of Aurora.
* Go left to travel past hull.
* Go inside.
* Win.
And do the exact the same on the way back. The only problem is there is a second reaper that spawns closer to the surface when you exit the Aurora. This never happened to me when I'm going to Aurora the first time.
So, I guess this is an addendum:
* Make your journey to Aurora your ONLY one
* Don't spend time sightseeing
* Have enough space in your inventory. Batteries can be acquired on the Aurora, as well as water (I think Aurora has disinfected water).
* Take food. Try to take hold of as many nutrient blocks as possible while inside.
* Try to not scan any Cyclops fragments if you didn't visited Aurora once during your playthough. If you didn't scan then, some of them ( in my experience, the bridge or engine fragments) will appear inside Aurora).
* FORGET ABOUT TAKING THOSE DECORATION ITENS (POSTERS, LAB EQUIPMENT, ETC) ON THE FIRST RUN TO AURORA! They will only take space, and at this stage, you don't have any means to defend the Seamoth (neither Perimeter Defense nor Torpedoe System).
* Only go to Aurora a second time if your vehicle can defend itself with one of the aforementioned systems. Remember, once you leave Aurora the first time, a reaper spawn close there, near the mushroom forest area but above it.
If you fix everything up, I've found after you exit the Aurora to go to whatever ship you've brought and parked outside, the paths into the Aurora have disappeared and you can't go back inside.
So I'd suggest you either take the Cyclops if you can manage it, else kit out the Seamoth with a bunch of Storage Modules to haul back all the loot you can take out. Problem is if you want it all, including the lab equipment and the bags, you won't have enough space in the Seamoth and your own inventory.
... that isn't even what I said, though; I said the sounds of the shields impacting against the terrain as you try to brute-force ram it against things is what might draw the thing, not simply turning the shields on as-is.
I know, should have made a full predator attraction feature test. Just didn't have the time so far.
But that's the same problem as above; that just doesn't feel feasible to do all the time without either a ton of cells or Ion Cells already built - and since anything from a shark upwards can damage the sub, you pretty much would need to just to get through the areas beyond the shallows, let alone to the dangerous leviathan-filled ones. To say nothing of you first needing to find the shield blueprints, which might require a prawn suit first from the Aurora and the list goes on. Long story short, it still feels a chore to manage.
I think we can simply agree that my thread title sums up that there has to be done something. Whatever I do, it's just my personal workaround and still gives me a headache to use the Cyclops.
Actually, the devs in the Trello find it an issue that you can get all the way to the ILZ and back in the Prawn, so they cut it's power down so you can't do that; according to the Trello, they increased it's power-consumption by 1/4th for the Silent Running update. https://trello.com/c/1AL1irnB/6228-exo-power-cell-drain-too-light-players-can-go-all-the-way-to-ilz-and-back-with-juice-to-spare
Long story short, IDK if you can actually do that anymore and expect to make it back out of the ILZ - especially if you have to deal with lava larva. between that and Sea Dragon aggros, I think you pretty much need to have the Cyclops to get down there, now.
You forgot that you always can build bases in the deep. You probably only need a base in a quiet area of the Lost River or Lava Zone that mainly works as an operation base. The devs have never implemented explicit creature attacks for bases and even then there will be perfect places to find for midway stations that can recharge the Prawn suit. To get all the stuff needed for base building it's probably best to come with the Cyclops. One of the very few uses it's good for. Shame the devs prohibited a standart cargo space for the Cyclops.
If Jacksepticeye's most recent vid is any indication, Sea Dragons can apparently now grapple/grip the Prawn in their jaws like the Reaper can, so it's possible you might get crushed right out of the thing before that happens. Plus, the stasis rifle needs time to charge for a shot that lasts long enough to do anything, and there's the Warpers that patrol the area - it just feels like a lot can go wrong, especially if you take nothing else but the Prawn down there. https://youtu.be/wsRFPSdMx7M?t=7m54s
I already got gripped, but with my plating the Prawn could suffer about 3 attacks before it gets crushed. Not counting the stunt of quickly getting out, repairing and getting back in. Or that stasis rifle stunt. Yes, it's a stunt, but I can assure you that if you are trained, this is a 100% safe method. Just remember to first shoot a quick shot at the Sea Dragon for accuracy alone - and then afterwards take all your time to give a full powered stasis at the now fixed Sea Dragon. Of course you need the reinforced diving suit to take unlucky bites from other creatures and remember that quick action is best with ultraglide fins and the lightweight plasteel tank. Again, I can reassure you that this method is 100% reliable.
What is not reliable is the Sea Dragon catching you through rock with your mouth or claws and releasing you beyond the clipping area.
By your own admission though, maneuvering down there is hard unless you use the ILZ corridor, which the deves seem to plan on closing up (which is something I think is a big problem, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but I've already made my feelings on that clear in another page). If you don't already have the Ion Cells for the shields and sonar, how is getting down there via winding all the way through the Lost River going to be anything less than a chore?
My best route is starting near the lava hole at the shallows near the big floating island, down along the mountains to the deep reef where the destroyed base is full of Crabsquids and Warpers. The most awful part is passing through the EMPs at the destroyed base. This part of the route is the tightest, but good with sonar and shields. After that you have an easy time through the Lost River and down the Lava Zone. I wish the devs wouldn't force that kind of awful navigation on the players. The other routes to the Lost River aren't better and as you know the other entrances will get closed. But the shield method at least allowed me to speed up navigation considerably. I didn't get any damage from the creatures or rocks. I don't think the devs did a good job on Cyclops navigation, so consider this as a workaround at best.
To stasis him effectively though, you'd have to exit the sub. Even if you managed to hit him, it would take up to the first few seconds just to get back to the prawn - and even if you do, you'd have to look out for the Warpers as well as the lizards and larva. Again, without the Cyclops, it just seems too stressful and complicated - there's a challenge and than there's unfairness; as it stands, the game's balanced so that you can't really access the ILZ without a Cyclops.
As I told above, my main fear is getting grabbed and dropped into the void. For me as a veteran I think it is managable, yet I don't think a beginner would have any chance without the Cyclops in silent running. Mostly because the map is new to him and he needs a lot of time down there just for exploring. The other problem is the omnipotent Sea Dragon gaze that feals totally wrong and not immersive in any way. Especially when he gets "magically" blinded through what is called silent running, so much that he can look at the player through the Cyclops cockpit and still not attack.
I don't call this balanced. This is the devs workaround for their inability to create an immersive stealth alternative to combat.
Like I mentioned above, though, the devs altered the Prawn so that you can't get even to the ILZ and back in one go, let alone the ALZ; they felt it was OP for the Prawn to do that. And my bigger concern comes from when the warpers teleport me out of the Prawn, leaving me panicking for a moment and scrambling to try and find it than swim back to it - doing that on the time limit of a stasis rifle seems more stressful than it's worth, in my opinion.
The devs are very stubborn when it gets to their "vision" of how to force players doing what they want. Maybe that is the main reason of a problematic Cyclops and omnipotent Sea Dragon now. They simply didn't know what to do else to force the player back into the Cyclops after they realised that the player enjoyed the Prawn too much and less the Cyclops. There is no awful Prawn navigation and the Prawn is too tough for anything else than the Sea Dragon.
But how will they prevent using the Prawn if you can recharge energy at a base in the deep? How will they prevent the player to build a base right inside the castle where the Sea Dragon can't be?
I just don't like that, though - the feeling that the thing is such a hassle to use that you should only use it a few times, even though the threat leviathans or sharks pose to smaller craft mean you'd need it just to explore beyond the shallows. Like you yourself said, the methods you outlined have to be either pulled off completely perfectly in one go or else you're going to get screwed - that's not very enjoyable gameplay in my opinion.
I finally hope that the devs will make the Cyclops much easier in use and to a point where it acutally doesn't feel a pain to navigate. I also hope that the Sea Dragon behaviour and stealth/silent running will get reworked to being more immersive.
Just to throw in the (long) few cents of a relatively new player, albeit one with game-breaking saving bugs, but that's neither here nor there, the Cyclops felt awkward and barely useful when I played on a friend's older copy, and is worse on my own copy, now.
I still came back and bought it on Steam myself, so that says something about the game as a whole...but the Cyclops is just kludgy. Take this from someone who prefers to pilot the largest starships and the heaviest 'mechs possible - I like big, slow, and heavy-feeling. The Cyclops isn't that, it lacks the same feeling of weight and momentum, and is weirdly tossed around by minor physics events.
It's wider and taller than it needs to be for internal volume, so it's not very good to fit places to start with, and it's lacking two whole rotational axes that would greatly help in maneuvering....so it was always slow and awkward to maneuver when near objects. Adding extra speed settings really doesn't help, it just means you can do extra collision damage to yourself when you discover it doesn't fit somewhere as well as it looks like, while simultaneously acquiring new bite marks on the hull.
Even worse, the camera system is a pain, with absolutely terrible, desperately underpowered lights that mysteriously change their settings every time I look at the matching camera, and lacks tons of required HUD info. It was an absolute chore the only time I took the Cyclops into the LR via the trench. I'll note that's the deepest I've gone, and I don't want to imagine worse.
Beyond that, it comes with so little storage as to be sort of laughable, and now it's -also- so fragile that I can tickle a couple of bone sharks into sneezing at it, and be at serious risk of going down with the ship...? Really, I don't think this, of all places, was the time to employ the principles of warfare, even if sci-fi, like decoys, silent running, and shields.
I understand that the devs wanted to make the big end-game sub not become the invulnerable poke-the-dragon-and-giggle option, and I agree, but I think it's been desperately mishandled. It went from "the thing I really look forward to having because it's kludgy and super slow and hard to get into lots of places, but worth it because it's a useful mobile base" to "the thing I'm not sure is worth bothering with at all, because I honestly think I could probably put the materials to better use with a bunch of scattered small bases for recharge/food/water".
I just cannot bring myself to build the expensive sub, then the super-expensive pressure modules for the sub, then all the rather expensive lockers/equipment/etc. to bring it up to passable mobile-base standards, all knowing how fragile it is and how much of a magnet for predators it is when not going even slower than before the update. (I don't think a short-duration, high-power-use shield is anything but an odd band-aid for a much bigger problem, but if they're going to insist on a shield, they ought to just make it very high power use. That's enough of a penalty, it doesn't require a duration as well.)
Make my mobile base not an impossible, invulnerable tank? Yes, please, nothing should be invincible. But maybe make it less easily destroyed, less of a ridiculous bitey-fish-magnet, and recoverable if it sinks? Lots of welding time and a fraction of its construction resources, or somesuch? Clearly the bulk of the hull is still there, and if we can build a fresh one in perhaps thirty seconds from some hunks of metal and glass and a couple bits of electronics, we ought to be able to refit and repair a sunken one.
One last thought - I don't understand why, exactly, mechanical noise is an instant aggro on everything with teeth, but is ignored by everything else. It resembles nothing in their environment and emanates from something that does not resemble food in any way - if anything, to a Subnautica animal it probably resembles a glowing floating rock, something they're intimately familiar with. It's just one that also makes noise. Based on what happens with animals and mechanical noises on Earth, it would be more plausible, and more reasonable, for it to cause uncertainty, perhaps experimental or territorial bites, but not incessant attacks, except perhaps in specific creatures that might find the noise extremely painful or unpleasant and are also sufficiently aggressive to attack, rather than avoid, an unpleasant stimulus.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
im amazed reading the most used opening to the lost river is not next to the signal talking about going down 500m.
I mean, for f sake.. its right there. Next to it, its big.. cant miss it.
I think we can simply agree that my thread title sums up that there has to be done something. Whatever I do, it's just my personal workaround and still gives me a headache to use the Cyclops.
I guess that's something we both agree on, at least; the Cyclops needs rebalancing.
You forgot that you always can build bases in the deep. You probably only need a base in a quiet area of the Lost River or Lava Zone that mainly works as an operation base. The devs have never implemented explicit creature attacks for bases and even then there will be perfect places to find for midway stations that can recharge the Prawn suit. To get all the stuff needed for base building it's probably best to come with the Cyclops. One of the very few uses it's good for. Shame the devs prohibited a standart cargo space for the Cyclops.
No, I didn't forget; I just think that building bases that far deep would, again, pretty much require you to have already built a Cyclops by that point, or else how could you possibly transport all the needed materials down there in one go without a tone of tedious grinding? I mean, the Lost River lacks a lot of the needed materials for base-building - Titanium, Lithium, Quartz, the Copper or Common Coral needed for electronics, etc; you'd need to carry all that down with you, or go back up if you needed anything else. But by your own admission, you said it was best to save the Cyclops until you already had everything - including Ion Cells, which you wouldn't have yet by just the Lost River. No matter what, it still feels a chore to me.
I already got gripped, but with my plating the Prawn could suffer about 3 attacks before it gets crushed. Not counting the stunt of quickly getting out, repairing and getting back in. Or that stasis rifle stunt. Yes, it's a stunt, but I can assure you that if you are trained, this is a 100% safe method. Just remember to first shoot a quick shot at the Sea Dragon for accuracy alone - and then afterwards take all your time to give a full powered stasis at the now fixed Sea Dragon. Of course you need the reinforced diving suit to take unlucky bites from other creatures and remember that quick action is best with ultraglide fins and the lightweight plasteel tank. Again, I can reassure you that this method is 100% reliable.
Again, not from where I stand - between the Warpers, the lava lizards and the chance of ending up tossed in magma-pools, it doesn't look or seem like it'd be anywhere close to "100% reliable". Hell, I tried it on just the Reapers in the dunes and it still nearly got me killed between Sandsharks and Biters, let alone the Sea Dragon with the Warpers and Lava Lizards. You say "if you are trained", but this doesn't seem like something you can be trained for - just be lucky at, and to risk the Prawn and anything you got with it for that doesn't seem worth it. Especially since, again, I couldn't even pull it off in Reaper territory, let alone Sea Dragon territory.
My best route is starting near the lava hole at the shallows near the big floating island, down along the mountains to the deep reef where the destroyed base is full of Crabsquids and Warpers. The most awful part is passing through the EMPs at the destroyed base. This part of the route is the tightest, but good with sonar and shields. After that you have an easy time through the Lost River and down the Lava Zone. I wish the devs wouldn't force that kind of awful navigation on the players. The other routes to the Lost River aren't better and as you know the other entrances will get closed. But the shield method at least allowed me to speed up navigation considerably. I didn't get any damage from the creatures or rocks. I don't think the devs did a good job on Cyclops navigation, so consider this as a workaround at best.
That doesn't really answer what I asked, though; how is that not a chore to have to do anyway, considering the abysmal maneuverability rate of the sub on top of the power drain from mods and EMP from Crabsquids? Again, if you don't already have Ion Cells by that point, how can you rely on sonar and shields without getting low even before you have to deal with the energy-sucking larva in the ILZ and ALZ? Hell, can it even be considered a workaround if this is the path you have to take regardless?
As I told above, my main fear is getting grabbed and dropped into the void. For me as a veteran I think it is managable, yet I don't think a beginner would have any chance without the Cyclops in silent running. Mostly because the map is new to him and he needs a lot of time down there just for exploring. The other problem is the omnipotent Sea Dragon gaze that feals totally wrong and not immersive in any way. Especially when he gets "magically" blinded through what is called silent running, so much that he can look at the player through the Cyclops cockpit and still not attack.
I don't call this balanced. This is the devs workaround for their inability to create an immersive stealth alternative to combat.
IDK - as it stands, I've logged 80-90 hours on the game since I got it; I was exploring the ILZ back during the Bones update. I think I've gotten pretty familiar with the map, but creature aggression seems to be what always changes. I will however agree that the devs tried too hard to focus on the concept of stealth over combat when they weren't possibly very experienced in it.
The devs are very stubborn when it gets to their "vision" of how to force players doing what they want. Maybe that is the main reason of a problematic Cyclops and omnipotent Sea Dragon now. They simply didn't know what to do else to force the player back into the Cyclops after they realised that the player enjoyed the Prawn too much and less the Cyclops. There is no awful Prawn navigation and the Prawn is too tough for anything else than the Sea Dragon.
But how will they prevent using the Prawn if you can recharge energy at a base in the deep? How will they prevent the player to build a base right inside the castle where the Sea Dragon can't be?
Warpers, probably; IDK if I remember it right, but I think there was talk between the devs of having them start to actively hunt the player's location when their infection level got too high - even talk about them appearing inside bases way back before they decided the Warpers were strictly-aquatic. Add to that the idea that they might make destructible bases/wildlife attacking bases a thing, and the Warpers that roam the Lava Castle might just do the job the Sea Dragon can't.
I finally hope that the devs will make the Cyclops much easier in use and to a point where it acutally doesn't feel a pain to navigate. I also hope that the Sea Dragon behaviour and stealth/silent running will get reworked to being more immersive.
On the Sea Dragons, I know they were planning on altering it further... but from what I can tell, they were actually pining to make it more dangerous. In fact, one said he already made it so that the Sea Dragon's movements affect/draw in things around it because it's size - https://trello.com/c/C1Rp0cPi/215-make-sea-dragons-more-interesting
IDK - as it stands, I've logged 80-90 hours on the game since I got it; I was exploring the ILZ back during the Bones update. I think I've gotten pretty familiar with the map, but creature aggression seems to be what always changes. I will however agree that the devs tried too hard to focus on the concept of stealth over combat when they weren't possibly very experienced in it.
Well, I've logged 410 hours in Subnautica, but this is the first game I'm actually gone deep. And I'm not too sure about all this stuff I see you talking about. These are areas I've yet to explore. I've just returned from my first visit to the DGR and the start of the LR. And I'm wondering how I'm going to even explore some of this and not get killed.
I also just returned from my first trip in the Cyclops, to the Floating Isle, then down to ~330m in the GR, then back to my 4-Biome Base. And I went on Silent Running the whole time. After that, took the Seamoth down to the DGR and the start of the LR. Very confusing to explore. Next trip is to the Aurora. I'm wondering how I'm going to handle the Reapers I know are around its bow.
And why can't we fix a destroyed Cyclops? As others have mentioned, it's mostly intact.
I've got some experience in Subnautica. And I read the posts here. I'm willing to risk my very expensive mobile base Cyclops because I've got the savegame I can restore back to. But I don't like that the Cyclops is so fragile and in such strange ways.
And then there's the rest of the game. I'm just exploring these places that are completely new to me. And I'm reading here about the risks and challenges that seem tailored for frustration and needing repeated attempts to achieve.
Comments
Except that it's not actually a mobile base in this state; a mobile base would at least have some form of stability (by that, I mean you could at least feel safe in it outside of the more dangerous areas); as it stands, it's just a glorified transport - and as fragile as one, to boot. Again, you cannot tell me that a pack of sharks doing more damage than leviathans is balanced.
And don't even get me started on the Discord; it just reminds me that the devs don't seem to remember Subnautica was supposed to be an open-world game, not a purely story-driven one - especially considering that with how much is in the LR already, the player wouldn't miss it regardless of if the Aurora corridor was open or not.
My problem with this when I tried it was how energy-intensive it was; the shields drain 50 energy per use and the sonar drains 10, so unless you either (A) have a ton of extra power cells or (B) have the Ion Power Cells already installed, you're going to drain a whole power cell just getting into the Lost River from the DGR, let alone making it to the ILZ and ALZ. Plus, the impacts cause sounds of their own, which might aggro the creatures you're trying to avoid anyway.
1st: Yes, its engergy-intensive. You'll need ion power cells and a lot of them. But remember that we can recharge them at bases. Also we can use the energy efficiency module for the Cyclops. I tried going down from the surface and towards the prison and had to switch a full set of 6 ion power cells down in the Lava zone. You might try to avoid using that strategy until endgame or you have gathered enough ion power cells and power intensive bases. I usually wait a long time before building the Cyclops (unless for testing purposes).
2nd: Sonar doesnt't seem to aggro the creatures. I tested it in silent running with the Crabsquids and Warpers and got no damaging attack, just the disrupting EMPs that don't damage the hull. Didn't test it with all creatures so far, but I assume that silent running simply blinds all creatures. I still have to test that though.
So if you want to have an easy Cyclops time early in game I'd say ... forget it. You'll need all upgrades to feel well with the Cyclops. But if you're fully equipped with all stuff, then my method works. With shields I can avoid driving in cam mode and ignore fearing damaging my Cyclops from simple terrain collisions. That is really a major advantage. The energy price is managable later in game.
I agree that right now the Cyclops is in desperate need of a rebalance (the bonesharks in general need to be toned way down, a single one took out my parked seamoth while I was exploring the wreck in the underwater islands and I've seen them in biomes that they're not supposed to be in after I've driven my Cyclops around). For my use case, it still is able to serve as a mobile base since it provides lots of storage, a fabricator, and growbeds (and even infinite energy with the power cell charger glitch). It just needs to be parked farther away than I would like from hostile areas (especially with the silent running turning itself off when I'm not in the sub).
IDK what good that does if you're far off and away from your base in places like the Lost River or Lava Zones, or even the Dunes. That's basically saying you can't ever stray too far from your base, which defeats the purpose of the Cyclops being a mobile base. Plus, the Energy-Efficiency Module only cuts back on passive energy-use while traveling - it didn't reduce the energy consumption of other mods, or at least not from what I saw.
Also, considering it's one of the only vehicles that can't be grappled or grabbed by the leviathans, I find that I can't go beyond the safe shallows or even get to the Aurora without having the Cyclops made, nor explore any of the deeper wrecks like those at the dunes or mountains. IDK, maybe it's just something about how I play, but I just haven't really found this method to work all that well
I wasn't talking about the sonar in the first place; I was talking about the nose caused by bashing against the walls with the shields up when trying to brute-force your way down into narrow areas - I said the noise from that might draw creatures toward you. Plus, silent running doesn't make you totally invisible - if something hits you accidentally, it registers you. Worse, external cameras having auto-on lights means that using them instantly alerts creatures even if silent. Even bigger issue is how the Sea Dragon will register the player-character the moment they leave the ship, even if they're on the other side of the ILZ cavern - and if it's too close to you, you climbing back into the sub might lead to it bashing into the Cyclops as it chases you and alerting it to the sub's presence. Simply put, in some cases it's not enough but in others it acts like complete invisibility to the point of unrealism.
Early game is one thing, but as it stands it feels like you need the thing to explore any place beyond the shallows and plateaus - especially since aggroed reapers can potentially chase you all the way back to said shallows. Not to mention that... well, hearing you describe it like that, it makes it feel even less like the Cyclops is properly balanced - like either you have all the stuff you mentioned, or it's either flat out unusable or too much of a pain to use otherwise, which runs counterproductive to the devs' original intent to encourage usability of the Cyclops. I don't mean to be rude, but what good does it do to say "my method works" if it requires you to have already visited the ILZ just to get the needed Ion Cells (which you pretty much can't get without the Cyclops already built anyway?) - it just feels too... well, in a word, wasteful and grindy and ultimately not fun to do, because it's basically saying you either must wait until we have all the stuff for your one single approach or to otherwise not bother. That's not really encouraging it as being useful - To say nothing of what happens if you accidentally aggro a Sea Dragon and can't use your shields in time because they're on cooldown.
I guess i won't be taking it anywhere else now. Don't want to lose everything I've built into it. I didn't mind the update, but it seems to be made of Tinfoil now. Going to take a while to unload it. Then just park it in the Barn.
What ever happened to the Docking system they were going to do, so you could Dock it at your base ? It already has the lower hatch to work with. The Sub should have a upper hatch and a escape system in place to. Not very well designed for emergency's for a sub that size,( Fire control that should be a normal redundant system. ) And should be a main stay and already a part of the Sub's systems on a Sub that size. Also you do have oxygen tanks why not use them to help with the smoke instead of breathing it. ( Just doesn't make sense )
They need to get a bit better balance on it's Destructibility. ( It''s way to easy to send to the Bottom as a Reef ) Sand sharks and those lot should do minor damage to a heavy armored sub if any, as that's what it would be to dive the depths it can go and be and exploratory ship. The tech also would be way ahead of now days tech as well. A 150 years is a lot of innovation in the tech and metal alloys world's. Next time you do a repair look at how thick the metal is. How come we don't have Repair bot's to help with the repairs as well ? Also Sub's use ballast systems to remain upright. Thats a weighted system in some smaller subs. And if a Mini sub has electrical defenses why wouldn't a bigger Sub like the Cyclops also have those same defenses.
The system needs a lot of balancing before i use it anymore and that's a shame as i like the sub myself, though generally use the Mech to do a lot of my exploring. And like here on good ol earth most sea creatures leave subs alone it's a rare and i mean a very rare instance that a Sub is attacked. Smaller Creatures generally run from what they see as a predator due to it's size. I can see the larger creatures doing damage to a certain extent. The Giant ones especially though Giant-ism generally leads to slowness in large creatures these are way to fast for their Size.
I use the Sub as a supply vessel and taxi for my Mech or mini Sub only. Would be nice to be able to dock the Mini on the back of the Sub.
It also takes time to Speedup and to slow down in Water.
How about fixing it so you can turn off the Red Lights Dev's. Red lights can cause problems in some people.
Not really...
Here's what I do:
Ok, you know how to do it, NOW STOP COMPLAINING!
Not quite that easy, actually:
To put it simply; your method doesn't fix the actual issue - which is that many, it's not fun or even really enjoyable to pilot the Cyclops as it is right now.
Doesn't change any of what I said:
Again, the issue isn't that your suggestions don't work (though I'd argue the success ratio at points). The issue is that they don't do anything to fix the actual problem - which is that using the Cyclops doesn't feel enjoyable; it feels like a chore that needs more effort than its worth to make work.
If you use the grappling as a swing you can indeed get mad mad speeds.
Tested some more. Shields definitely don't seem to disrupt silent running or attract the Sea Dragon or another creature. With sonar I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to depend on the creature type. I think those lava lizards damaged my sub while using sonar without shields. But I'm not sure, as they also randomly spit fire and this could be the reason. Nevertheless I tend to use the sonar in dark areas and repair the sub later.
Without sonar you won't have much fun with navigating the Cyclops, as the devs made Cyclops sight the worst of all vehicles. The floodlight designer should be banned from Alterra as this light is reflecting back to you, effectively blinding you. Without it your vision is far darker than with the other vehicles. Not that it is any fun navigating the Cyclops at all, but no one should drive the Cyclops without sonar (except at the Lava Sea). I know its energy intensive, but I rather gather 2 more ion power cells than skip sonar navigation.
As I've already told, driving with shields allows me almost to drive the Cyclops as straight as the Seamoth, so again I gather more ion power cells and stick to recharging instead doing an awful cam navigation, switching views while getting no HUD info and cam lights attracting some sharklike creatures.
Now getting that much ion power needs time and traveling to the lava castle. You can do that with the Prawn suit once it is fully enhanced with grappling hook and jump jets for navigation and pressure and damage plating to be tough enough for some damage and the depth. The main problem for newcomers would be finding the castle entrance before the Sea Dragon rips you apart.
So you probably need the stasis rifle for that operation. If the Sea Dragon is coming, you have to exit the Prawn and stasis him, quickly reenter and proceed. And repeat it. On the other side if you exactly know where to go, you can just take the damage for some time and enter the castle damaged, where you can repair inside.
Less risky of course is to simply use a Cyclops with silent running to get near the castle until you can see the entrance. And probably any newcomer is supposed to search the lava caves with the Cyclops, because the Prawn operations with the Sea Dragon around only allow direct well known actions.
I think the Sea Dragon has a too omnipotent gaze that unfairly goes through rock. He can swim right before your silent running Cyclops and never touch it (tested it almost a dozen times), yet when you approach him hidden behind rocks with your Prawn or just diving, he will immediately "see" you through the rock and might even grab through rock, fetch you and release you past the clipping, dropping you into the illegal void. Totally unbalanced. So the best approach right now is to directly approach your target and Sea Dragon and stasis him and be as quick as possible.
I've tested going to the castle and prison with the Prawn only and managed to do both one after the other with the help of the stasis rifle and even without if you are quick repairing, because the Sea Dragon might need more time to return to attack. But I fear that method is not as reliable as using stasis, which works 100% safe.
I must confess, that because the Cyclops is a pain to drive, I usually avoid doing anything else with the Cyclops than driving it from my surface homebase to the prison. The Cyclops will probably as much useful as the upcoming rocket, which will only be used once. So in the end I don't even use that much energy, because the Cyclops is probably only good for a few operations at the dangerous Lava Zone or maybe even the Lost River.
Some operations that would make the Cyclops more fun driving:
What would make the stealth/silent gameplay work:
What would make fire/flood fighting work:
@kingkuma
The problem with non silent running methods against the Sea Dragon is, that they need correct timing and a bit of luck, while silent running is 100% safe at that time (stable build) and not needing any reflexes at all. If the Sea Dragon attacks while you're stuck with shield recovery time, then you must switch to decoys. And there is no hotkey HUD for quick action. Also, flank speed should make the Cyclops much faster than a Sea Dragon, but I think the flank speed is not good enough.
Oh, and if you don't like the cyclops:
don't use it. It's that simple.
Not really, considering this thread's very existence is indicative that it's something that goes beyond just me.
Except that the Sea Dragon's high aggro level means you pretty much need to have the Cyclops and it's silent running to have any chance of making it through any of the Lava Zones. Ergo, you kinda need to use it - plus the devs talked about cutting down the Prawn's power source so that it can't be abused as the only exploratory vehicle.
Suffice to say, it most certainly is not that simple. Nor does it do anything to fix the issues in the Cyclops.
If you want to move really, really fast in a prawn, try standing in a precursor teleporter and clicking the prawn to enter it. Fastest way to the edge of the map (through terrain) and into death that I'm aware of.
Positively hilarious.
Dev's plan on fixing that.
... that isn't even what I said, though; I said the sounds of the shields impacting against the terrain as you try to brute-force ram it against things is what might draw the thing, not simply turning the shields on as-is.
But that's literally what I said was already a problem; unless you already have the Ion Power Cells to use, all this stuff may as well be kept in the locker until you get down to the ILZ on your own anyway. It's basically that you either need to find and build all these mods first or you can't even take it out anywhere, and that doesn't encourage using it in exploration (which you'll be forced to do because of Sea Dragon aggro for everything that's not a silent running Cyclops).
But that's the same problem as above; that just doesn't feel feasible to do all the time without either a ton of cells or Ion Cells already built - and since anything from a shark upwards can damage the sub, you pretty much would need to just to get through the areas beyond the shallows, let alone to the dangerous leviathan-filled ones. To say nothing of you first needing to find the shield blueprints, which might require a prawn suit first from the Aurora and the list goes on. Long story short, it still feels a chore to manage.
Actually, the devs in the Trello find it an issue that you can get all the way to the ILZ and back in the Prawn, so they cut it's power down so you can't do that; according to the Trello, they increased it's power-consumption by 1/4th for the Silent Running update. https://trello.com/c/1AL1irnB/6228-exo-power-cell-drain-too-light-players-can-go-all-the-way-to-ilz-and-back-with-juice-to-spare
Long story short, IDK if you can actually do that anymore and expect to make it back out of the ILZ - especially if you have to deal with lava larva. between that and Sea Dragon aggros, I think you pretty much need to have the Cyclops to get down there, now.
If Jacksepticeye's most recent vid is any indication, Sea Dragons can apparently now grapple/grip the Prawn in their jaws like the Reaper can, so it's possible you might get crushed right out of the thing before that happens. Plus, the stasis rifle needs time to charge for a shot that lasts long enough to do anything, and there's the Warpers that patrol the area - it just feels like a lot can go wrong, especially if you take nothing else but the Prawn down there.
https://youtu.be/wsRFPSdMx7M?t=7m54s
By your own admission though, maneuvering down there is hard unless you use the ILZ corridor, which the deves seem to plan on closing up (which is something I think is a big problem, both lore-wise and gameplay-wise, but I've already made my feelings on that clear in another page). If you don't already have the Ion Cells for the shields and sonar, how is getting down there via winding all the way through the Lost River going to be anything less than a chore?
To stasis him effectively though, you'd have to exit the sub. Even if you managed to hit him, it would take up to the first few seconds just to get back to the prawn - and even if you do, you'd have to look out for the Warpers as well as the lizards and larva. Again, without the Cyclops, it just seems too stressful and complicated - there's a challenge and than there's unfairness; as it stands, the game's balanced so that you can't really access the ILZ without a Cyclops.
Like I mentioned above, though, the devs altered the Prawn so that you can't get even to the ILZ and back in one go, let alone the ALZ; they felt it was OP for the Prawn to do that. And my bigger concern comes from when the warpers teleport me out of the Prawn, leaving me panicking for a moment and scrambling to try and find it than swim back to it - doing that on the time limit of a stasis rifle seems more stressful than it's worth, in my opinion.
I just don't like that, though - the feeling that the thing is such a hassle to use that you should only use it a few times, even though the threat leviathans or sharks pose to smaller craft mean you'd need it just to explore beyond the shallows. Like you yourself said, the methods you outlined have to be either pulled off completely perfectly in one go or else you're going to get screwed - that's not very enjoyable gameplay in my opinion.
I do it with seaglide or seamoth just fine. Just hog the aurora more and you are usually in the aurora area before you ever see a reaper.
Aka
* Travel to middle of Aurora.
* Go left to travel past hull.
* Go inside.
* Win.
And do the exact the same on the way back. The only problem is there is a second reaper that spawns closer to the surface when you exit the Aurora. This never happened to me when I'm going to Aurora the first time.
So, I guess this is an addendum:
* Make your journey to Aurora your ONLY one
* Don't spend time sightseeing
* Have enough space in your inventory. Batteries can be acquired on the Aurora, as well as water (I think Aurora has disinfected water).
* Take food. Try to take hold of as many nutrient blocks as possible while inside.
* Try to not scan any Cyclops fragments if you didn't visited Aurora once during your playthough. If you didn't scan then, some of them ( in my experience, the bridge or engine fragments) will appear inside Aurora).
* FORGET ABOUT TAKING THOSE DECORATION ITENS (POSTERS, LAB EQUIPMENT, ETC) ON THE FIRST RUN TO AURORA! They will only take space, and at this stage, you don't have any means to defend the Seamoth (neither Perimeter Defense nor Torpedoe System).
* Only go to Aurora a second time if your vehicle can defend itself with one of the aforementioned systems. Remember, once you leave Aurora the first time, a reaper spawn close there, near the mushroom forest area but above it.
One can almost always see the larger creatures before getting close to them.
If you fix everything up, I've found after you exit the Aurora to go to whatever ship you've brought and parked outside, the paths into the Aurora have disappeared and you can't go back inside.
So I'd suggest you either take the Cyclops if you can manage it, else kit out the Seamoth with a bunch of Storage Modules to haul back all the loot you can take out. Problem is if you want it all, including the lab equipment and the bags, you won't have enough space in the Seamoth and your own inventory.
I know, should have made a full predator attraction feature test. Just didn't have the time so far.
I think we can simply agree that my thread title sums up that there has to be done something. Whatever I do, it's just my personal workaround and still gives me a headache to use the Cyclops.
You forgot that you always can build bases in the deep. You probably only need a base in a quiet area of the Lost River or Lava Zone that mainly works as an operation base. The devs have never implemented explicit creature attacks for bases and even then there will be perfect places to find for midway stations that can recharge the Prawn suit. To get all the stuff needed for base building it's probably best to come with the Cyclops. One of the very few uses it's good for. Shame the devs prohibited a standart cargo space for the Cyclops.
I already got gripped, but with my plating the Prawn could suffer about 3 attacks before it gets crushed. Not counting the stunt of quickly getting out, repairing and getting back in. Or that stasis rifle stunt. Yes, it's a stunt, but I can assure you that if you are trained, this is a 100% safe method. Just remember to first shoot a quick shot at the Sea Dragon for accuracy alone - and then afterwards take all your time to give a full powered stasis at the now fixed Sea Dragon. Of course you need the reinforced diving suit to take unlucky bites from other creatures and remember that quick action is best with ultraglide fins and the lightweight plasteel tank. Again, I can reassure you that this method is 100% reliable.
What is not reliable is the Sea Dragon catching you through rock with your mouth or claws and releasing you beyond the clipping area.
My best route is starting near the lava hole at the shallows near the big floating island, down along the mountains to the deep reef where the destroyed base is full of Crabsquids and Warpers. The most awful part is passing through the EMPs at the destroyed base. This part of the route is the tightest, but good with sonar and shields. After that you have an easy time through the Lost River and down the Lava Zone. I wish the devs wouldn't force that kind of awful navigation on the players. The other routes to the Lost River aren't better and as you know the other entrances will get closed. But the shield method at least allowed me to speed up navigation considerably. I didn't get any damage from the creatures or rocks. I don't think the devs did a good job on Cyclops navigation, so consider this as a workaround at best.
As I told above, my main fear is getting grabbed and dropped into the void. For me as a veteran I think it is managable, yet I don't think a beginner would have any chance without the Cyclops in silent running. Mostly because the map is new to him and he needs a lot of time down there just for exploring. The other problem is the omnipotent Sea Dragon gaze that feals totally wrong and not immersive in any way. Especially when he gets "magically" blinded through what is called silent running, so much that he can look at the player through the Cyclops cockpit and still not attack.
I don't call this balanced. This is the devs workaround for their inability to create an immersive stealth alternative to combat.
The devs are very stubborn when it gets to their "vision" of how to force players doing what they want. Maybe that is the main reason of a problematic Cyclops and omnipotent Sea Dragon now. They simply didn't know what to do else to force the player back into the Cyclops after they realised that the player enjoyed the Prawn too much and less the Cyclops. There is no awful Prawn navigation and the Prawn is too tough for anything else than the Sea Dragon.
But how will they prevent using the Prawn if you can recharge energy at a base in the deep? How will they prevent the player to build a base right inside the castle where the Sea Dragon can't be?
I finally hope that the devs will make the Cyclops much easier in use and to a point where it acutally doesn't feel a pain to navigate. I also hope that the Sea Dragon behaviour and stealth/silent running will get reworked to being more immersive.
I still came back and bought it on Steam myself, so that says something about the game as a whole...but the Cyclops is just kludgy. Take this from someone who prefers to pilot the largest starships and the heaviest 'mechs possible - I like big, slow, and heavy-feeling. The Cyclops isn't that, it lacks the same feeling of weight and momentum, and is weirdly tossed around by minor physics events.
It's wider and taller than it needs to be for internal volume, so it's not very good to fit places to start with, and it's lacking two whole rotational axes that would greatly help in maneuvering....so it was always slow and awkward to maneuver when near objects. Adding extra speed settings really doesn't help, it just means you can do extra collision damage to yourself when you discover it doesn't fit somewhere as well as it looks like, while simultaneously acquiring new bite marks on the hull.
Even worse, the camera system is a pain, with absolutely terrible, desperately underpowered lights that mysteriously change their settings every time I look at the matching camera, and lacks tons of required HUD info. It was an absolute chore the only time I took the Cyclops into the LR via the trench. I'll note that's the deepest I've gone, and I don't want to imagine worse.
Beyond that, it comes with so little storage as to be sort of laughable, and now it's -also- so fragile that I can tickle a couple of bone sharks into sneezing at it, and be at serious risk of going down with the ship...? Really, I don't think this, of all places, was the time to employ the principles of warfare, even if sci-fi, like decoys, silent running, and shields.
I understand that the devs wanted to make the big end-game sub not become the invulnerable poke-the-dragon-and-giggle option, and I agree, but I think it's been desperately mishandled. It went from "the thing I really look forward to having because it's kludgy and super slow and hard to get into lots of places, but worth it because it's a useful mobile base" to "the thing I'm not sure is worth bothering with at all, because I honestly think I could probably put the materials to better use with a bunch of scattered small bases for recharge/food/water".
I just cannot bring myself to build the expensive sub, then the super-expensive pressure modules for the sub, then all the rather expensive lockers/equipment/etc. to bring it up to passable mobile-base standards, all knowing how fragile it is and how much of a magnet for predators it is when not going even slower than before the update. (I don't think a short-duration, high-power-use shield is anything but an odd band-aid for a much bigger problem, but if they're going to insist on a shield, they ought to just make it very high power use. That's enough of a penalty, it doesn't require a duration as well.)
Make my mobile base not an impossible, invulnerable tank? Yes, please, nothing should be invincible. But maybe make it less easily destroyed, less of a ridiculous bitey-fish-magnet, and recoverable if it sinks? Lots of welding time and a fraction of its construction resources, or somesuch? Clearly the bulk of the hull is still there, and if we can build a fresh one in perhaps thirty seconds from some hunks of metal and glass and a couple bits of electronics, we ought to be able to refit and repair a sunken one.
One last thought - I don't understand why, exactly, mechanical noise is an instant aggro on everything with teeth, but is ignored by everything else. It resembles nothing in their environment and emanates from something that does not resemble food in any way - if anything, to a Subnautica animal it probably resembles a glowing floating rock, something they're intimately familiar with. It's just one that also makes noise. Based on what happens with animals and mechanical noises on Earth, it would be more plausible, and more reasonable, for it to cause uncertainty, perhaps experimental or territorial bites, but not incessant attacks, except perhaps in specific creatures that might find the noise extremely painful or unpleasant and are also sufficiently aggressive to attack, rather than avoid, an unpleasant stimulus.
Maybe that was more a few bucks than cents...
I mean, for f sake.. its right there. Next to it, its big.. cant miss it.
I guess that's something we both agree on, at least; the Cyclops needs rebalancing.
No, I didn't forget; I just think that building bases that far deep would, again, pretty much require you to have already built a Cyclops by that point, or else how could you possibly transport all the needed materials down there in one go without a tone of tedious grinding? I mean, the Lost River lacks a lot of the needed materials for base-building - Titanium, Lithium, Quartz, the Copper or Common Coral needed for electronics, etc; you'd need to carry all that down with you, or go back up if you needed anything else. But by your own admission, you said it was best to save the Cyclops until you already had everything - including Ion Cells, which you wouldn't have yet by just the Lost River. No matter what, it still feels a chore to me.
Again, not from where I stand - between the Warpers, the lava lizards and the chance of ending up tossed in magma-pools, it doesn't look or seem like it'd be anywhere close to "100% reliable". Hell, I tried it on just the Reapers in the dunes and it still nearly got me killed between Sandsharks and Biters, let alone the Sea Dragon with the Warpers and Lava Lizards. You say "if you are trained", but this doesn't seem like something you can be trained for - just be lucky at, and to risk the Prawn and anything you got with it for that doesn't seem worth it. Especially since, again, I couldn't even pull it off in Reaper territory, let alone Sea Dragon territory.
That doesn't really answer what I asked, though; how is that not a chore to have to do anyway, considering the abysmal maneuverability rate of the sub on top of the power drain from mods and EMP from Crabsquids? Again, if you don't already have Ion Cells by that point, how can you rely on sonar and shields without getting low even before you have to deal with the energy-sucking larva in the ILZ and ALZ? Hell, can it even be considered a workaround if this is the path you have to take regardless?
IDK - as it stands, I've logged 80-90 hours on the game since I got it; I was exploring the ILZ back during the Bones update. I think I've gotten pretty familiar with the map, but creature aggression seems to be what always changes. I will however agree that the devs tried too hard to focus on the concept of stealth over combat when they weren't possibly very experienced in it.
Warpers, probably; IDK if I remember it right, but I think there was talk between the devs of having them start to actively hunt the player's location when their infection level got too high - even talk about them appearing inside bases way back before they decided the Warpers were strictly-aquatic. Add to that the idea that they might make destructible bases/wildlife attacking bases a thing, and the Warpers that roam the Lava Castle might just do the job the Sea Dragon can't.
On the Sea Dragons, I know they were planning on altering it further... but from what I can tell, they were actually pining to make it more dangerous. In fact, one said he already made it so that the Sea Dragon's movements affect/draw in things around it because it's size - https://trello.com/c/C1Rp0cPi/215-make-sea-dragons-more-interesting
I also just returned from my first trip in the Cyclops, to the Floating Isle, then down to ~330m in the GR, then back to my 4-Biome Base. And I went on Silent Running the whole time. After that, took the Seamoth down to the DGR and the start of the LR. Very confusing to explore. Next trip is to the Aurora. I'm wondering how I'm going to handle the Reapers I know are around its bow.
And why can't we fix a destroyed Cyclops? As others have mentioned, it's mostly intact.
I've got some experience in Subnautica. And I read the posts here. I'm willing to risk my very expensive mobile base Cyclops because I've got the savegame I can restore back to. But I don't like that the Cyclops is so fragile and in such strange ways.
And then there's the rest of the game. I'm just exploring these places that are completely new to me. And I'm reading here about the risks and challenges that seem tailored for frustration and needing repeated attempts to achieve.
Not looking forward to all that grief.