With the 2nd Hive Rush Strategy being so popular this debate is almost outdated. I rarely ever see any upgrade chambers before 2nd Hive.
But to answer your question,
Victory can be achieved regadless of the chamber you build first <i>as long as you have a strategy</i>.
Why Def>Mov>Sen is so popular is because it is the most flexible upgrade strategy for public servers where you have less coordination and teamplay.
This was my position when if comes to why Def>Mov>Sen is the superior strategy for most games.
*My post for another Thread*
A Typical NS round has three distinct 'acts' so-to-speak (I'll only talk about the first two).
The Opening Game - Defence Chambers
In the opening game you want to have Defensive Chambers to give your offensive aliens more suvivability. You need as many offensive aliens as possible active in the opening game to keep the marines from advancing and expanding. Defensive Chambers allow your aliens to survive longer during attacks (which means a greater chance to take out a couple marine) and heal inbetween rushes and ambushes which reduces the time they spend in the respawn cycle.
The Middle Game - Movement Chambers
In the middle game you want to have Movement Chambers to give your offensive aliens more attack power. By middle game Marines are probably entrenched at your 3rd Hive and what nodes you couldn't protect from the Openning is probably reinforced with defensive structure. It is in the middle game you got to start thinking about assaulting mini-bases especially the 3rd Hive Base. With full movement upgrades; your Fades can make 2-3 more shots with the Acid Rockets, your Lerks can chain-cast Umbra. We all know a couple Fades and a Lerk is a wrecking ball for mini-bases. The key with Movement Chambers is the ability to do more damage to mini-bases at a much shorter period of time.
Movement > Sensory in Middle Game
Sensory Chambers in the middle game are almost worthless in my opinion. Once they have mini-bases they are sure to get Motion Tracking, smart commanders put up motion tracking before middle game! Just look at your objective for the middle game, to take the 3rd hive (probably from the Marines) and attack any mini-bases they have outside of the main base. If you can shoot and stay cloaked there might be a good argument made for Sensory Chambers but Movement Chambers clearly have more advantages in the base-busting middle game (especially when it is combined with Defence Chambers).
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
meh, I was replying to:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you need scent of fear? Parasite is much easier to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SoF + acid rkts = every one is on your hive sight, lol
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The most important is and will ever be the Defense Chamber, coz it heals you and your structures. Offense Chambers are worthe nothing without Defense Chambers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then, (as someone else said) you're playing up a strategy based on an inferior team as well.
Do you know what the REAL defense for hives is? THE PLAYERS!
The main usage of an OC, is to
A) Kill single stupid LA/LMG marines, saving on Skulk time wasted B) Slow the marines when attacking properly, and inform the team where the marines are.
Hence, why walls of lame fail. Because people seem to think "Oh, our hive is safe, we have 1 billion OC's"
And my main issue with the adrenaline obsession is because people rely COMPLETELY on Acid Rocket. The number of Fade players I've run at as a marine, and they've <b>fallen back!</b> WHY? Because they have such an acid rocket mindset, they don't switch to claws & chop you up.
Thank you markeo. For this...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Without movement fades suck, they NEED adrenaline to combat HA / HMG marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's complete gibberish. One on one (or one on two, if I have cloak) I can eat HA's alive. Because I'm using claws, not engaging in a UT rocket spamming contest. The marines miss.. A LOT. You just keep close, and keep moving, and sooner or later, that marine will reload (Anyone else WISH the reload was hearable to the aliens, like cloaking is for the marines?) and he dies even quicker.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
umm, shock if you had read the rest of his post (Markeo900 that is) you would see that he does say that the reason why they are good is b/c it takes marines longer to get through them
yes we know OCs are roadblocks, but they are much more eficient if paired with DCs
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Apologies then on the jump re: OC's.
But it's still valid. People in game do seem to treat them as if they're the only def they need. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
COOOL!!!
since when did the acid rocket ever parasite anything ...?
is that some kind of new feature in 1.03?
I mean .. I know I havn't played it much .. but damn ...
But to answer your question,
Victory can be achieved regadless of the chamber you build first <i>as long as you have a strategy</i>.
Why Def>Mov>Sen is so popular is because it is the most flexible upgrade strategy for public servers where you have less coordination and teamplay.
This was my position when if comes to why Def>Mov>Sen is the superior strategy for most games.
*My post for another Thread*
A Typical NS round has three distinct 'acts' so-to-speak (I'll only talk about the first two).
The Opening Game - Defence Chambers
In the opening game you want to have Defensive Chambers to give your offensive aliens more suvivability. You need as many offensive aliens as possible active in the opening game to keep the marines from advancing and expanding. Defensive Chambers allow your aliens to survive longer during attacks (which means a greater chance to take out a couple marine) and heal inbetween rushes and ambushes which reduces the time they spend in the respawn cycle.
The Middle Game - Movement Chambers
In the middle game you want to have Movement Chambers to give your offensive aliens more attack power. By middle game Marines are probably entrenched at your 3rd Hive and what nodes you couldn't protect from the Openning is probably reinforced with defensive structure. It is in the middle game you got to start thinking about assaulting mini-bases especially the 3rd Hive Base. With full movement upgrades; your Fades can make 2-3 more shots with the Acid Rockets, your Lerks can chain-cast Umbra. We all know a couple Fades and a Lerk is a wrecking ball for mini-bases. The key with Movement Chambers is the ability to do more damage to mini-bases at a much shorter period of time.
Movement > Sensory in Middle Game
Sensory Chambers in the middle game are almost worthless in my opinion. Once they have mini-bases they are sure to get Motion Tracking, smart commanders put up motion tracking before middle game! Just look at your objective for the middle game, to take the 3rd hive (probably from the Marines) and attack any mini-bases they have outside of the main base. If you can shoot and stay cloaked there might be a good argument made for Sensory Chambers but Movement Chambers clearly have more advantages in the base-busting middle game (especially when it is combined with Defence Chambers).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why do you need scent of fear? Parasite is much easier to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SoF + acid rkts = every one is on your hive sight, lol
lol
Then, (as someone else said) you're playing up a strategy based on an inferior team as well.
Do you know what the REAL defense for hives is? THE PLAYERS!
The main usage of an OC, is to
A) Kill single stupid LA/LMG marines, saving on Skulk time wasted
B) Slow the marines when attacking properly, and inform the team where the marines are.
Hence, why walls of lame fail. Because people seem to think "Oh, our hive is safe, we have 1 billion OC's"
And my main issue with the adrenaline obsession is because people rely COMPLETELY on Acid Rocket. The number of Fade players I've run at as a marine, and they've <b>fallen back!</b> WHY? Because they have such an acid rocket mindset, they don't switch to claws & chop you up.
Thank you markeo. For this...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Without movement fades suck, they NEED adrenaline to combat HA / HMG marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's complete gibberish. One on one (or one on two, if I have cloak) I can eat HA's alive. Because I'm using claws, not engaging in a UT rocket spamming contest. The marines miss.. A LOT. You just keep close, and keep moving, and sooner or later, that marine will reload (Anyone else WISH the reload was hearable to the aliens, like cloaking is for the marines?) and he dies even quicker.
yes we know OCs are roadblocks, but they are much more eficient if paired with DCs
But it's still valid. People in game do seem to treat them as if they're the only def they need. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
thougH Ihave held off a squad as a gorge with my OCs/DCs many a time
if you throw a cute little pudgy into the mix marines will start going down (they have to reload so I think it is time to heal my chambers