<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'll beat the dead horse again and tell you that I KNOW it's personal preference, but it just gets me frustrated when some people's preferences aren't even looked at.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Start a <b>Sensory Tips and Strategies</b> Thread. Make the notes, <i>*Not a DC/MC Bashfest. Just SC Strats*</i>. Then just go nuts and put sensory tips, strategies, and experiences. Advertise your idea. Don't try to fight DC/MC strats like the enemy. All chamber strats are legitimate and applicable to NS, present yours by themselves. Don't try to sell them by <i>comparing</i> them to DC/MC strats, that just start arguments and you know that.
I hate it when people take the tone of, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so there. It's better, I've proved it . All your strats suck compared to mine and nobody can tell me differently." You may have made good points but your attitude is probably going to be the tinder for the argument that will soon follow and then there goes any chance of quality discussion of your potential good ideas.
If you have good ideas, it is inevitably that it will become discovered, accepted, and perhaps prefered. Some ideas take longer to be accepted then others but like I said above, don't put your idea against others, there is no point.
DC strats, MC strats, SC strats, no chamber til 2nd hive strats; I've seen them all. Use them if you want to, like'm if you want to, it's up to you. Whatever's cool with me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are way too many servers where people go sensory (or even SUGGEST sensory) and the Vote Kick comes on, not even giving it a chance...but of course none of you here have tried to kick someone like that before..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Take this concern to the admin of the server. I agree with you, being kicked for suggesting a strategy is not fair, it is at the admins discretion to kick you but in this instance I think it would be considered unreasonable. But again, take it to the admin of the server or go to the senior admin if you to.
We all know there is quite a lot of 'passion' involved in the chamber order debate. Thoughtful, objective <i>discussions</i> get emotional and then it becomes nothing more then an <i>argument</i> and that is when the problems begin. Arguments work against your goal if you are trying to demonstrate to the alien players that sensory can be a viable chamber. When people start to argue they <i>only see their own side</i>, they are then preoccupid with defending their ideas and attacking yours. Nothing is really heard.
That is also the benefit of the idea I suggested above, to start a Sensory Chamber Tips Thread. If a DC/MC proponent goes in there and acts like an caboose you can simply tell him that these are tips, we did not say they are better then DC strategies we are just saying these are strategies you can use if you have Sensory abilities. How can he argue with that, I would think that if he kept on being an caboose he would then be flaming and a Mod will take care of that.
The key is to advertise the idea. Spread your snesory tips and strategies, people may just try them out and if they are as effective as you believe they are, slowly but surely sensory will become more accepted.
Just my thoughts... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Bobbyfat+Jan 5 2003, 04:00 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bobbyfat @ Jan 5 2003, 04:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->8 pages of retarded theories, and lucky experiences against newbies, and this hasn't been locked yet?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And you had to add a retarted post to the thread, how nice..
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm getting sick of this thread, so I'm really not going to provoke the argument any longer...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played in a few games where NO chambers went up until the second hive was going up, and even then it was usually defense (simply because they help keep walls of lame alive.)
I've said this before: Sensory is fine as long as the defense is either first or second. A skilled gorge can have another hive up and running before the marines can become a real problem. And skilled skulks don't need (although they really appreciate) carapace to nail marines.
As for armor upgrades making 2 bites into 3: By the time they have that upgrade, you will most likely have fades on the way. It's all a matter of money and how long it takes to get it. not to mention research time. Do your job right, and you won't see 3 bite marines until you have fades.
observatory and motion tracking: again, it takes time and res simply to get motion tracking, and if they do that first, they'll have problems holding a position long enough to secure a hive. cloak is still fine in that scenario. For commanders who constantly ping ahead of the marine squad, you know where they're going. Build the hive they AREN'T going for.
A fade with cloak and carapace is great a fade can do a LOT or hit and run with it. On the other hand, have you guys tried cloak/redemption? You know, ambush a group, get shot, respawn somewhere before you die. (works best on small groups of marines.
BTW, I don't know if this is still true, but if your crosshairs are on top of a cloaked alien, his name shows up under the crosshair. I got killed that way. A squad of 5 HA/HMG marines were on their way to our hive, so i cloaked and let them pass me. One was staring straight at me and was acting confused. Then he opened fire once, saw the green splatters and opened up to kill me. He told me later that he saw my name appear under his crosshair. No hacks needed to detect cloaked aliens. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW I think sensory chambers should be allowed to cloak, that way we can place them at chokepoints so that passing marines will get parasited. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
And let's not forget how useful scent of fear is. Gives you early warning of any wounded marines coming in, allowing you to get defense ready. Allows you to ambush wounded marines. Tells you which marines in a group are wounded so you can attack them first. And, allows you to spam marines with spore clouds and bile bombs easily by doing it from around corners, or dodging around corners without having to take the time to aim while they have LoS on you.
Unfortunately, enhanced hive sight seems to be useless. This destracts from the value of sensory chambers quite a bit.
So, Canadian monkey: The only way to kill people with a skulk is with carpace, and lerks are only used for umbra, and fades cant do nothing without adren and carp?
Sorry to tell you but your wrong
They might not be AS good, and you will probably die alot more, but its still viable, and if you practise you can kill as good with that as with carpace
How do you know all other skills suck in comparison to carp? Have you ever killed even remotley as many celerity, cloak, silence skulks? Are there any players that is good at using these skills?
Nobody really knows for sure how to use these skills properly, since nobody ever tried as often as the carpace skulks...I like change, it brings fun into the game, not just competition
Let me draw a paralell(pardon my english): I owned a server in Counterstike using the Dual Pistols only. This is a swedish server where people in [NiP] standards play...and some actually did play [NiP] in clanbase...They laughed at me for trying but didnt know how it would be, since noone ever use them...
I just wanted to add that with the SC/DC combo, most of you seem to be neglecting the Cloak/Regen combo. This allows you to stay hidden and heal, without having to run for a DC or a Gorge somewhere. If you uncloak in the midst of a group of marines as a skulk or fade, you can injure/kill a few and then run around the nearest corner. If you've gone fast enough, you'll be able to cloak and heal while the marines either run away, or try to chase you.
Regen fades? Rofl. Carapace is MUCH better. You may think regen is ok until a marine with decent aim shoves his lmg up your ****. 33 hits is not much at all, and hitting at close range s ridiculously easy. Sure, you might swipe my buddy before anyone knows you are there, but once you are visible, and without carapace, you will not last long at all.
Another thing I find amusing is people who think that unupgraded skulks can hold off marines. Regular marines > unupgraded skulks, provided the marines have a small amount of aim, and intelligence. Upgrades are necessary to keep the marines from doing anything.
One problem I forsee with even the new cloaking is the new marine reliance on teching. If the marines tech, aliens have to rush, or have some JP+HMG guys zipping all around their hive before they can say ****. Unfortunately, the ONLY good skulk rushing ability is carapace.
Then again, the aliens are not forced to drop chambers until they feel like it, so if the marines try to cap hives, then the aliens can opt for sensory. Yet, if the marines quicky switch to teching, aliens might be suddenly and utterly screwed.
Another thing I do not understand, but is still a minor issue to me is why people can prefer cloak/carapace instead of adren/carapace for fades? Sure you can cloak in the corner, but a camping fade is a useless fade. Fades come at the time aliens are starting to push the marines back, and time spent camping in some area, even if it is right outside their base could be much better spent acid rocket spamming, or swiping ifthe area is relatively clear. As I said before, it is not a bigdealto me, but it just seems odd. Another thing is people who like celerity. Fades have BLINK, they DO NOT NEED celerity. Sure marines "cant hit as well", which is complete and utter ****. Blink into the middle of some marines, and you will take just as many hits with adren or celerity.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->regen fades? Rofl. Carapace is MUCH better. You may think regen is ok until a marine with decent aim shoves his lmg up your ****. 33 hits is not much at all, and hitting at close range s ridiculously easy. Sure, you might swipe my buddy before anyone knows you are there, but once you are visible, and without carapace, you will not last long at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're taking the suggestion of context. Regen Fades < carapaced Fades, but not when they're CLOAKING Fades. The idea is that you ambush and kill a small group of marines, which is easy to do if you're decent enough at melee combat and you get the drop on them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing I find amusing is people who think that unupgraded skulks can hold off marines. Regular marines > unupgraded skulks, provided the marines have a small amount of aim, and intelligence. Upgrades are necessary to keep the marines from doing anything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're generalising. A good skulk is more than a match for an unupgraded marine. On the balance (at least, on the servers I play on, not even counting my l33t m3l33z0r sk1llz) unupgraded skulks are exactly as effective as unupgraded LA\LMG. If you can't drop a LA\LMG as a skulk, <i>you're doing something wrong</i> or you need more practise. I eat LAs for breakfast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing is people who like celerity. Fades have BLINK, they DO NOT NEED celerity. Sure marines "cant hit as well", which is complete and utter ****. Blink into the middle of some marines, and you will take just as many hits with adren or celerity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you're not a melee fade, I can't expect you to understand. Blink does NOT replace celerity. Blink is unreliable, difficult to find a good spot to use, and is far too risky for a 56-resource investment. It's best used for retreating, not closing the distance - typically if you try to blink to a target you end up stuck in it. If you're a true melee fade, you <i><b>DO</b></i> need celerity. You need it to DODGE. You have to stop those **** from hitting you, and you can't use blink for that!
Well, I'm not going to say that celerity is bad for fade, just that adren is much better. I've never had a problem firing a few shots into a group of marines, since the splash weakens them all, blinking right in the middle, and slaughtering them all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You may think regen is ok until a marine with decent aim shoves his lmg up your ****. 33 hits is not much at all, and hitting at close range s ridiculously easy. Sure, you might swipe my buddy before anyone knows you are there, but once you are visible, and without carapace, you will not last long at all<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you saying that a lmg will get off 33 shots before a fade can swipe 2 or 3 times? If you are then that fade deserves to die a horrible death.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, I'm not going to say that celerity is bad for fade, just that adren is much better. I've never had a problem firing a few shots into a group of marines, since the splash weakens them all, blinking right in the middle, and slaughtering them all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes well, thats YOUR playing style, my playing style might make celerity fade uber sweet, just as good as your andrenaline fade. Just because you are used to acid spam and can't do anything else with a fade does NOT make it suck.
A word to the wise, or not so wise as the case may be. Refusing to use an ability does not make you 1337, calling people who fire acid rockets newbs does not make you sound like a NS god, and "they must have been newbs then" is not an argument.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are you saying that a lmg will get off 33 shots before a fade can swipe 2 or 3 times? If you are then that fade deserves to die a horrible death. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you, as a marine, cannot dodge a fade swipe for long enough to get in 2 seconds worth of fire, you deserve to die a horrible death.
Retarded statements such as this work both ways.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just because you are used to acid spam and can't do anything else with a fade <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you found out how to blink yesterday and got some kills on a bunch of unupgraded LA marines who couldn't shoot straight and thought it was pretty cool, does not make this playing style either more effective, or more difficult to execute than any other fading style. You are not 31337 because you do something you believe is unique.
Blink+Slash is quite an enjoyable way to toy with basic marines, blink kills are fun. They are not new and you are not special just because you always try to land them. If a 2 hive alien team is fighting a drawn out battle with upgraded lategame marines over an important location, and you walk up... Past the cover of the doorway, away from the defence and offence chambers, out of the umbra cover, away from the gorge and through the webbing frontline, blink into a pile of marines, kill 1 LA and die, you aren't going to impress me because you did something different.
Crisqo u are stupid. Sensory as the first chamber sucks. Period. No cloakin won't help u. I don't need stupid cloaking to hang about marine exits. Being in a dark corner is enough. After I jump on them cloaking is no help at all to kill them. U see, I am not the best skulk, but even I know that gettin ner a marine is not a sure kill. EVERY time I saw sensory go first aliens lost. Especially cos fades with cloaking and adrenaline suck. Besides u should not camp with skulks, cos if u do marines win. *You have to assault with them and keep them occupide so cloaking sucks. And whole sensory. I usually pick enhanced sight or scent of fear. U need carpace. Maybe ppl would use differnt chamber order if aliens didn't need def+movement upgrades at hive 2 so badly. Even I as a skulk player prefer defens + movement. And yes I HATE marines with good aim. There seems to be no stopping them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Canadianmonk3y+Dec 31 2002, 01:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Canadianmonk3y @ Dec 31 2002, 01:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Movement first can be a viable choice, but your gorges turn into walking "shoot me!" signs... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, you do realize that a gorge is <b>ALWAYS</b> a walking "shoot me" sign, right? Your statement here pretty much kills your own argument...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because you found out how to blink yesterday and got some kills on a bunch of unupgraded LA marines who couldn't shoot straight and thought it was pretty cool, does not make this playing style either more effective, or more difficult to execute than any other fading style. You are not 31337 because you do something you believe is unique. Blink+Slash is quite an enjoyable way to toy with basic marines, blink kills are fun. They are not new and you are not special just because you always try to land them. If a 2 hive alien team is fighting a drawn out battle with upgraded lategame marines over an important location, and you walk up... Past the cover of the doorway, away from the defence and offence chambers, out of the umbra cover, away from the gorge and through the webbing frontline, blink into a pile of marines, kill 1 LA and die, you aren't going to impress me because you did something different.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You my friend, are flamebaiting, and I refuse to take part in it. However I will say that I have never said that what I did was "uber 1337" and better then acid spam. It was just an alternative to getting the carapace/andrenaline fade, nothing more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Crisqo u are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I love you, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensory as the first chamber sucks. Period. No cloakin won't help u. I don't need stupid cloaking to hang about marine exits. Being in a dark corner is enough. After I jump on them cloaking is no help at all to kill them. U see, I am not the best skulk, but even I know that gettin ner a marine is not a sure kill. EVERY time I saw sensory go first aliens lost. Especially cos fades with cloaking and adrenaline suck. Besides u should not camp with skulks, cos if u do marines win. *You have to assault with them and keep them occupide so cloaking sucks. And whole sensory. I usually pick enhanced sight or scent of fear. U need carpace. Maybe ppl would use differnt chamber order if aliens didn't need def+movement upgrades at hive 2 so badly. Even I as a skulk player prefer defens + movement. And yes I HATE marines with good aim. There seems to be no stopping them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you and your team must have done something horribly wrong, because when I do it, I win.
Having said that, I can usually work with any chamber first, although I do recommend DC as the first or second chamber to benefit the two-hive fades with regen.
Anyway. The way things stand, sensory first is quite viable, on its own merits as a strategy. The ooonly problem is that for it to be effective you have to drop a lot of chambers as early as possible in as many strategic locations as you can.
When it's done correctly, it's wonderful. Especially if you get in before the observatories come up, it basically gives the skulks a free reign of the map. Not to mention makes it very, very hard for marines to secure locations like double res if they can't see the skulks attacking them.
The problem is that unless you <i>do</i> have a lot of SCs dropped, and dropped early, you run in to problems. If the marines achieve a two hive lockdown, you're pretty screwed. I say that because sensory upgrades alone don't really help you destroy expansions, whereas defense upgrades do.
So... on the one hand, sensory first can be a blessing. Dropping sensories at the hive locations as soon as the game starts makes it damn near impossible to achieve a two hive lockdown (well, assuming the SCs are placed where they can't easily be bumped into). On the other hand, with only one or two or three sensories, dropped at the starting hive, things are very difficult. Well, maybe focus will change that.
And remember kiddies, once the observatory goes up it can only scan once. After that, it will take a while to be able to scan one more time. (Something like a minute? Anyone want to test this?) Scanning is a whole lot less frequent than in the 1.0 phases of NS. (Not to say that I was wrong in saying SDM was a an incorect chamber,) but going sensory has been made a whole lot easier.
Imagine, ns_hera. Two exits to the marine spawn, two choke points. Sensory chambers go up at each one and the marines will be hard pressed to break through both. The idea would be to make them waste a scan, then run back to a second chamber that is still at a choke point.
If the marines scan the long hallway (the one with the pretty glass window that you can look at the resnode by) all skulks have to do is fall back to hera reception where they are still blocking the marines, but are out of scanner sweep range, then after pushing the marine's attempt at attacking back, they can move up to the hallways again.
If the marines attempt to get out via the elevator they would be equally as screwed. If they scanner sweep then, just move back to generator, then back up once they stopped scanning the elevator/hallway areas.
In short, why bother putting the entire map down in a sensory net (although that would be very fun) when 4 - 6 would suffice?
Amongst Constillation Members, the chamber order has become a LOT less fixed, and we pick our first hamber based on whim and based off of what we want our SKULKS to have, more than what we want our Onos to have.
Why? Because played right, aliens in 3.0 are almost assured that they can get all three hives up at some point in the game, and thus all three chamber types. Now, HOLDING ON to all three hives is a different matter, and extremely difficult, but grabbing them in the first place is actually quite simple. You no longer have to put down defense chambers first in order to have Onos to break a lockdown latter it the game... because said lockdown will only occur AFTER you've nabbed the three hives.
Or at least, that's what always happened on the locked beta servers. I'm now playing on pubs with this massive influx of new players, and nothing is garunteed... RTs aren't dropped, RTs aren't gaurded, no one goes gorge, no one communicates...
I don't know what the best chamber order for that situation is.
The key to sensory is map control, basically containment. If aliens can successfully contain with sensory, 3 hives are up and they win. DC is better for assault, SC is better for containment. Whichever the alien team feels they are better at, go for. The key to winning can be in either chambers. DC I believe is more flexable still than SC, but SC is now a very viable first chamber. Focused skulks inside a cloaked SC radius are very very deadly.
I find on a server with lots of experienced players, sensory is the best chamber to go with. Get some good gorges to drop the sc's at choke points on the map, and have the skulks use focus religiously. Even a fairly good marine team is well contained this way, while the rest of the aliens are locking down every hive and securing every res node on the map.
DC tends to work better when the teams are chock full of our new oh so friendly influx of combat newbs. Of course, aliens will usually lose in this situation if the comm is good, even if teh team is terrible.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scuzball+Feb 1 2004, 06:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scuzball @ Feb 1 2004, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd actually say Movement is the 'weakest' chamber to put first now.
Silence is nice for surpise, and Adren helps Lerks and bombing Gorges... but for a 1st chamber, you might not even see either of those.
*dances on DMS's grave* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But then you forget Celerity, which boosts offensive AND defensive capabilities a lot.
Of course, there will be a flaw with all strategies, so that makes them all equal. I have played SMD, SDM, MDS and MSD games, and have won them before. This can pretty much prove that not 1 single chamber is better than the other.
Aliens : DC - Marines : Tech weapons. (Lv. 2 weapons cut through carapace) Aliens : MC - Marines : Tech armor/Obs (Extra armor to survive quick close-ups, or MT) Aliens : SC - Marines : Tech armor/Obs (Extra armor to counter focus or scan)
Which is quickest to get? I wouldn't say each one of them are the quickest to get, because we know that one comm cannot remember everything he has to do when he's on duty. I know this from personal experience, and usually need a grunt to remind me about something.
But overall, they pretty much take ALMOST the same time to tech. With only a few seconds of difference between them, it won't matter if you got SC, MC or DC at all.
BTW, Crisqo, the reason why you would need to have a sens network, is because in that equal amount of time, the marines can pretty much get MT.
I've only played one game that i recall where we went sensory first but I don't think I've ever killed so many marines. Just sitting there outside their base picking them off as they cluelessly wander by. It was fun stuff, very fun. Also, I think we won.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You have to assault with them and keep them occupide so cloaking sucks. And whole sensory<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a loser! I always go sensory first (since 1.0). Cloak pwnz if you have skulks that know how to play. You just need 1-2 sens to get fast cloak. No need for covering map with sens.
btw its a very easy way to see what skillz the players on the sever have.
decent - accepts any chamber order half decent - accepts any chamber (after bitching for a few sec) bad - spends the first 5 mins hanging from ceiling throwing very bad words (team_say / voice) at the gorg.
Comments
Start a <b>Sensory Tips and Strategies</b> Thread. Make the notes, <i>*Not a DC/MC Bashfest. Just SC Strats*</i>. Then just go nuts and put sensory tips, strategies, and experiences. Advertise your idea. Don't try to fight DC/MC strats like the enemy. All chamber strats are legitimate and applicable to NS, present yours by themselves. Don't try to sell them by <i>comparing</i> them to DC/MC strats, that just start arguments and you know that.
I hate it when people take the tone of, "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, so there. It's better, I've proved it . All your strats suck compared to mine and nobody can tell me differently." You may have made good points but your attitude is probably going to be the tinder for the argument that will soon follow and then there goes any chance of quality discussion of your potential good ideas.
If you have good ideas, it is inevitably that it will become discovered, accepted, and perhaps prefered. Some ideas take longer to be accepted then others but like I said above, don't put your idea against others, there is no point.
DC strats, MC strats, SC strats, no chamber til 2nd hive strats; I've seen them all. Use them if you want to, like'm if you want to, it's up to you. Whatever's cool with me.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are way too many servers where people go sensory (or even SUGGEST sensory) and the Vote Kick comes on, not even giving it a chance...but of course none of you here have tried to kick someone like that before..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Take this concern to the admin of the server. I agree with you, being kicked for suggesting a strategy is not fair, it is at the admins discretion to kick you but in this instance I think it would be considered unreasonable. But again, take it to the admin of the server or go to the senior admin if you to.
We all know there is quite a lot of 'passion' involved in the chamber order debate. Thoughtful, objective <i>discussions</i> get emotional and then it becomes nothing more then an <i>argument</i> and that is when the problems begin. Arguments work against your goal if you are trying to demonstrate to the alien players that sensory can be a viable chamber. When people start to argue they <i>only see their own side</i>, they are then preoccupid with defending their ideas and attacking yours. Nothing is really heard.
That is also the benefit of the idea I suggested above, to start a Sensory Chamber Tips Thread. If a DC/MC proponent goes in there and acts like an caboose you can simply tell him that these are tips, we did not say they are better then DC strategies we are just saying these are strategies you can use if you have Sensory abilities. How can he argue with that, I would think that if he kept on being an caboose he would then be flaming and a Mod will take care of that.
The key is to advertise the idea. Spread your snesory tips and strategies, people may just try them out and if they are as effective as you believe they are, slowly but surely sensory will become more accepted.
Just my thoughts... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
And you had to add a retarted post to the thread, how nice..
Good!
I've said this before: Sensory is fine as long as the defense is either first or second. A skilled gorge can have another hive up and running before the marines can become a real problem. And skilled skulks don't need (although they really appreciate) carapace to nail marines.
As for armor upgrades making 2 bites into 3: By the time they have that upgrade, you will most likely have fades on the way. It's all a matter of money and how long it takes to get it. not to mention research time. Do your job right, and you won't see 3 bite marines until you have fades.
observatory and motion tracking: again, it takes time and res simply to get motion tracking, and if they do that first, they'll have problems holding a position long enough to secure a hive. cloak is still fine in that scenario. For commanders who constantly ping ahead of the marine squad, you know where they're going. Build the hive they AREN'T going for.
A fade with cloak and carapace is great a fade can do a LOT or hit and run with it. On the other hand, have you guys tried cloak/redemption? You know, ambush a group, get shot, respawn somewhere before you die. (works best on small groups of marines.
BTW, I don't know if this is still true, but if your crosshairs are on top of a cloaked alien, his name shows up under the crosshair. I got killed that way. A squad of 5 HA/HMG marines were on their way to our hive, so i cloaked and let them pass me. One was staring straight at me and was acting confused. Then he opened fire once, saw the green splatters and opened up to kill me. He told me later that he saw my name appear under his crosshair. No hacks needed to detect cloaked aliens. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW I think sensory chambers should be allowed to cloak, that way we can place them at chokepoints so that passing marines will get parasited. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Unfortunately, enhanced hive sight seems to be useless. This destracts from the value of sensory chambers quite a bit.
The only way to kill people with a skulk is with carpace, and lerks are only used for umbra, and fades cant do nothing without adren and carp?
Sorry to tell you but your wrong
They might not be AS good, and you will probably die alot more, but its still viable, and if you practise you can kill as good with that as with carpace
How do you know all other skills suck in comparison to carp? Have you ever killed even remotley as many celerity, cloak, silence skulks? Are there any players that is good at using these skills?
Nobody really knows for sure how to use these skills properly, since nobody ever tried as often as the carpace skulks...I like change, it brings fun into the game, not just competition
Let me draw a paralell(pardon my english):
I owned a server in Counterstike using the Dual Pistols only. This is a swedish server where people in [NiP] standards play...and some actually did play [NiP] in clanbase...They laughed at me for trying but didnt know how it would be, since noone ever use them...
-Jag
Carapace is MUCH better.
You may think regen is ok until a marine with decent aim shoves his lmg up your ****. 33 hits is not much at all, and hitting at close range s ridiculously easy. Sure, you might swipe my buddy before anyone knows you are there, but once you are visible, and without carapace, you will not last long at all.
Another thing I find amusing is people who think that unupgraded skulks can hold off marines. Regular marines > unupgraded skulks, provided the marines have a small amount of aim, and intelligence. Upgrades are necessary to keep the marines from doing anything.
One problem I forsee with even the new cloaking is the new marine reliance on teching. If the marines tech, aliens have to rush, or have some JP+HMG guys zipping all around their hive before they can say ****. Unfortunately, the ONLY good skulk rushing ability is carapace.
Then again, the aliens are not forced to drop chambers until they feel like it, so if the marines try to cap hives, then the aliens can opt for sensory. Yet, if the marines quicky switch to teching, aliens might be suddenly and utterly screwed.
Another thing I do not understand, but is still a minor issue to me is why people can prefer cloak/carapace instead of adren/carapace for fades? Sure you can cloak in the corner, but a camping fade is a useless fade. Fades come at the time aliens are starting to push the marines back, and time spent camping in some area, even if it is right outside their base could be much better spent acid rocket spamming, or swiping ifthe area is relatively clear. As I said before, it is not a bigdealto me, but it just seems odd. Another thing is people who like celerity. Fades have BLINK, they DO NOT NEED celerity. Sure marines "cant hit as well", which is complete and utter ****. Blink into the middle of some marines, and you will take just as many hits with adren or celerity.
Carapace is MUCH better.
You may think regen is ok until a marine with decent aim shoves his lmg up your ****. 33 hits is not much at all, and hitting at close range s ridiculously easy. Sure, you might swipe my buddy before anyone knows you are there, but once you are visible, and without carapace, you will not last long at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're taking the suggestion of context. Regen Fades < carapaced Fades, but not when they're CLOAKING Fades. The idea is that you ambush and kill a small group of marines, which is easy to do if you're decent enough at melee combat and you get the drop on them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing I find amusing is people who think that unupgraded skulks can hold off marines. Regular marines > unupgraded skulks, provided the marines have a small amount of aim, and intelligence. Upgrades are necessary to keep the marines from doing anything. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're generalising. A good skulk is more than a match for an unupgraded marine. On the balance (at least, on the servers I play on, not even counting my l33t m3l33z0r sk1llz) unupgraded skulks are exactly as effective as unupgraded LA\LMG. If you can't drop a LA\LMG as a skulk, <i>you're doing something wrong</i> or you need more practise. I eat LAs for breakfast.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Another thing is people who like celerity. Fades have BLINK, they DO NOT NEED celerity. Sure marines "cant hit as well", which is complete and utter ****. Blink into the middle of some marines, and you will take just as many hits with adren or celerity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're not a melee fade, I can't expect you to understand. Blink does NOT replace celerity. Blink is unreliable, difficult to find a good spot to use, and is far too risky for a 56-resource investment. It's best used for retreating, not closing the distance - typically if you try to blink to a target you end up stuck in it. If you're a true melee fade, you <i><b>DO</b></i> need celerity. You need it to DODGE. You have to stop those **** from hitting you, and you can't use blink for that!
Are you saying that a lmg will get off 33 shots before a fade can swipe 2 or 3 times? If you are then that fade deserves to die a horrible death.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, I'm not going to say that celerity is bad for fade, just that adren is much better. I've never had a problem firing a few shots into a group of marines, since the splash weakens them all, blinking right in the middle, and slaughtering them all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes well, thats YOUR playing style, my playing style might make celerity fade uber sweet, just as good as your andrenaline fade. Just because you are used to acid spam and can't do anything else with a fade does NOT make it suck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Are you saying that a lmg will get off 33 shots before a fade can swipe 2 or 3 times? If you are then that fade deserves to die a horrible death.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you, as a marine, cannot dodge a fade swipe for long enough to get in 2 seconds worth of fire, you deserve to die a horrible death.
Retarded statements such as this work both ways.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Just because you are used to acid spam and can't do anything else with a fade
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you found out how to blink yesterday and got some kills on a bunch of unupgraded LA marines who couldn't shoot straight and thought it was pretty cool, does not make this playing style either more effective, or more difficult to execute than any other fading style. You are not 31337 because you do something you believe is unique.
Blink+Slash is quite an enjoyable way to toy with basic marines, blink kills are fun. They are not new and you are not special just because you always try to land them. If a 2 hive alien team is fighting a drawn out battle with upgraded lategame marines over an important location, and you walk up... Past the cover of the doorway, away from the defence and offence chambers, out of the umbra cover, away from the gorge and through the webbing frontline, blink into a pile of marines, kill 1 LA and die, you aren't going to impress me because you did something different.
Um, you do realize that a gorge is <b>ALWAYS</b> a walking "shoot me" sign, right? Your statement here pretty much kills your own argument...
special just because you always try to land them. If a 2 hive alien team is fighting a drawn out battle with upgraded lategame marines over an important location, and you walk up... Past the cover of the doorway, away from the defence and offence chambers, out of the umbra cover, away from the gorge and through the webbing frontline, blink into a pile of marines, kill 1 LA and die, you aren't going to impress me because you did something different.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You my friend, are flamebaiting, and I refuse to take part in it. However I will say that I have never said that what I did was "uber 1337" and better then acid spam. It was just an alternative to getting the carapace/andrenaline fade, nothing more.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Crisqo u are stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love you, too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sensory as the first chamber sucks. Period. No cloakin won't help u. I
don't need stupid cloaking to hang about marine exits. Being in a dark corner is enough. After I jump on them cloaking is no help at all to kill them. U see, I am not the best skulk, but even I know that gettin ner a marine is not a sure kill. EVERY time I saw sensory go first aliens lost. Especially cos fades with cloaking and adrenaline suck. Besides u should not
camp with skulks, cos if u do marines win. *You have to assault with them and keep them
occupide so cloaking sucks. And whole sensory. I usually pick enhanced sight or scent of fear. U need carpace. Maybe ppl would use differnt chamber order if aliens didn't need def+movement upgrades at hive 2 so badly. Even I as a skulk player prefer defens + movement. And yes I HATE marines with good aim. There seems to be no stopping them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you and your team must have done something horribly wrong, because when I do it, I win.
Ok, now i'd like to revisit this "chamber order" stuff one more time with the introduction of a really cool upgrade, focus.
Is there anyone here who still says that DMS should be-all end-all order, or is everyone cool with doing whatever order they please?
Having said that, I can usually work with any chamber first, although I do recommend DC as the first or second chamber to benefit the two-hive fades with regen.
Whoa. Things have certainly changed...
Anyway. The way things stand, sensory first is quite viable, on its own merits as a strategy. The ooonly problem is that for it to be effective you have to drop a lot of chambers as early as possible in as many strategic locations as you can.
When it's done correctly, it's wonderful. Especially if you get in before the observatories come up, it basically gives the skulks a free reign of the map. Not to mention makes it very, very hard for marines to secure locations like double res if they can't see the skulks attacking them.
The problem is that unless you <i>do</i> have a lot of SCs dropped, and dropped early, you run in to problems. If the marines achieve a two hive lockdown, you're pretty screwed. I say that because sensory upgrades alone don't really help you destroy expansions, whereas defense upgrades do.
So... on the one hand, sensory first can be a blessing. Dropping sensories at the hive locations as soon as the game starts makes it damn near impossible to achieve a two hive lockdown (well, assuming the SCs are placed where they can't easily be bumped into). On the other hand, with only one or two or three sensories, dropped at the starting hive, things are very difficult. Well, maybe focus will change that.
Imagine, ns_hera. Two exits to the marine spawn, two choke points. Sensory chambers go up at each one and the marines will be hard pressed to break through both. The idea would be to make them waste a scan, then run back to a second chamber that is still at a choke point.
If the marines scan the long hallway (the one with the pretty glass window that you can look at the resnode by) all skulks have to do is fall back to hera reception where they are still blocking the marines, but are out of scanner sweep range, then after pushing the marine's attempt at attacking back, they can move up to the hallways again.
If the marines attempt to get out via the elevator they would be equally as screwed. If they scanner sweep then, just move back to generator, then back up once they stopped scanning the elevator/hallway areas.
In short, why bother putting the entire map down in a sensory net (although that would be very fun) when 4 - 6 would suffice?
Why? Because played right, aliens in 3.0 are almost assured that they can get all three hives up at some point in the game, and thus all three chamber types. Now, HOLDING ON to all three hives is a different matter, and extremely difficult, but grabbing them in the first place is actually quite simple. You no longer have to put down defense chambers first in order to have Onos to break a lockdown latter it the game... because said lockdown will only occur AFTER you've nabbed the three hives.
Or at least, that's what always happened on the locked beta servers. I'm now playing on pubs with this massive influx of new players, and nothing is garunteed... RTs aren't dropped, RTs aren't gaurded, no one goes gorge, no one communicates...
I don't know what the best chamber order for that situation is.
DC tends to work better when the teams are chock full of our new oh so friendly influx of combat newbs. Of course, aliens will usually lose in this situation if the comm is good, even if teh team is terrible.
Silence is nice for surpise, and Adren helps Lerks and bombing Gorges... but for a 1st chamber, you might not even see either of those.
*dances on DMS's grave*
Silence is nice for surpise, and Adren helps Lerks and bombing Gorges... but for a 1st chamber, you might not even see either of those.
*dances on DMS's grave* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then you forget Celerity, which boosts offensive AND defensive capabilities a lot.
Of course, there will be a flaw with all strategies, so that makes them all equal. I have played SMD, SDM, MDS and MSD games, and have won them before. This can pretty much prove that not 1 single chamber is better than the other.
Aliens : DC - Marines : Tech weapons. (Lv. 2 weapons cut through carapace)
Aliens : MC - Marines : Tech armor/Obs (Extra armor to survive quick close-ups, or MT)
Aliens : SC - Marines : Tech armor/Obs (Extra armor to counter focus or scan)
Which is quickest to get? I wouldn't say each one of them are the quickest to get, because we know that one comm cannot remember everything he has to do when he's on duty. I know this from personal experience, and usually need a grunt to remind me about something.
But overall, they pretty much take ALMOST the same time to tech. With only a few seconds of difference between them, it won't matter if you got SC, MC or DC at all.
BTW, Crisqo, the reason why you would need to have a sens network, is because in that equal amount of time, the marines can pretty much get MT.
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That was dope!
What a loser! I always go sensory first (since 1.0). Cloak pwnz if you have skulks that know how to play. You just need 1-2 sens to get fast cloak. No need for covering map with sens.
btw its a very easy way to see what skillz the players on the sever have.
decent - accepts any chamber order
half decent - accepts any chamber (after bitching for a few sec)
bad - spends the first 5 mins hanging from ceiling throwing very bad words (team_say / voice) at the gorg.