In games long games from 2 hours till 7 hours (rare!) NS shows its MMORPG qualities <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just feel like jumping on the long games = fun games bandwagon.
I too frowned when I read that Flarya would be trying to speed up the games, I already felt that games were becoming shorter and shorter, and less and less fun. It really seems like a team will really take control in the first few minutes, and stomp towards the end in 15-20 minutes (sometimes shorter with a JP rush or a failed relocate).
I find a good face paced game as much fun as the next guy, with both aliens and marines rushing up the tech tree... skulks VS marines, the carapaced skulks against lvl 1 upgrade marines, then fades against marines with higher upgrades, then endgame. But I LOVED the games of old, where you had a long 1-2 hour game of HA/JP marines trying to take down an important location, and Fade / Lerks trying to take down an important location as well.
Each team has people attacking and people defending... one team gets wiped out, so the other has to fall back, etc... etc... It is usally decided when one team plays exceptionally well, and manages to blow through the other's defenses and make a wound so deep that they cannot recover.
THAT'S a game! THAT'S strategy, that's FUN! 2 HA/HMG, 1 HA/Gren, one welder.... 1-2 FAdes + Lerk, maybe + gorge... Only in a long game do you see multiple fights between squads like that. Sooooo much fun.
10 minutes is roughly the time it takes for things to get cooking in a 1.04 match. Marines teching to jetpacks will have their tech by this point, and unless they have been hindered significantly, aliens will be looking towards 2 hive technology. A 1.04 clan game is often decided by this point, even if the game may go on for a while longer before it ends.
Some matches finish earlier, either by an early game marine rush or mid-game cara skulk rush (I say mid-game in the sense of an average timeline, not mid-game as in mid-tech tree). And some games go on later:
Matches which last beyond the 15-20 minute mark usually fall into 2 categories. Match play when an alien team has its hive defended well enough to stop JP hits, but are unable to push out and take a 2nd hive. Or pub play where a marine side may have locked down 2 hives, but delayed their tech so much in doing so that the aliens now have obscene amounts of res and the entire map is a wall of lame with aliens controlling all but 2 res points. In this scenario the aliens could probably pull the game back if they just got their act together and co-ordinated a rush, and the marine team could have won already if only they'd spent more res on map control and upgrades instead of sealing themselves into the hives.
In either case, matches longer than 15-20 minutes in 1.04 can basically be regarded as some form of stalemate. Fights between mid-game techs are very very unlikely. Games usually end quickly whenever one team gets ahead of the other except in the cases mentioned above. Reaching 2 hive tech as an alien team means you immediately have access to web, which often stops JP hits cold. This boosted defence breaks the deadlock straight away. Marines can no longer keep aliens on the defensive for fear of JP hits, so the alien team can push forward. Given the opportunity to do so, alien 2 hive tech is extremely powerful and will usually finish the game there and then.
What i'm getting at is, 10-15 minutes is a pretty average game length for matches at the moment. Flayras 22 minute average is probably only that long because it accounts for public play stalemates. A reduced average gametime could simply mean that stalemates are becoming less likely. For example, the proposed idea of aliens gaining acess to all evolutions from 1 hive would mean any 2 hive lockdown strat could be easily broken, and would force marines to put more pressure on the aliens main hive. This doesn't change clanplay drastically, but it turns the public scene on its head. With some system like this in place, most of the turret farm stalemates no longer exist, and thus we get a lower average gametime.
The longer the better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its when the game is waving back and forth that it is the most fun. Noone is sure wich side is going to win, and you have to put up with one helluva fight if you want your team to be victorious.
Personaly i think that having a long game is why some people (like me) like NS, Because it more of a campain against a team not like CS that you just die and wait till the end of the round. Long games of NS are the best in my opinion, there is nothing more satisfying than being merines and losing all 3 hives and coming back taking the hives 1 by 1. i think that is alota the feal of NS, make it shorter and it lose's some of it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. any way thats IMHO.
IMHO long games are what make Ns special, it is an entirely different atmosphere. Yesterday we had a great game on one of the blueyonder servers, where Marines relocated, and locked down 2 hives. But the aliens got almost every res on the map and OC and DC spammed the map, took on hive from the marines, shortly after that lost their first one, with a few fades still remaining took it back, while jet packers destroyed both later, but they got rebuilt in time and fades survived to defend against HA. Great game...
Right now I already miss the times of 1.0 when the games wre long (although i have to admit that that was due to inexperience) and I would prefer longer games, 1.04 is already to fast for my liking most of the time, except when one side uses and interesting new tactic to end the game early.
It is an interesting thing too, to use what you got (skulks, carapace, 1 hive lerk) to the best of its abilities. It is challenging.
Undoubtedly the most fun games I've had have been the long ones.
Let me clarify, not 2 hive lockdowns where aliens have not been able to recover, but marines have not been able to take the last hive quickly, but rather those where there is a constant balance between fades and ha/hmg or jp/HMGers, or just level 3 lmgers even. the middle hive is always a scene of mass rushes from both teams.
A large proportion of these epic games I've played in have been on ns_caged. Great map for good balance IMHO <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thankfully, the entire community feels the same way, and I'm sure we'll be pleasantly surprised when 1.1 is ready.
I actually have fun in the 2 hive lockdown situations as an alien. Ill get the whole team together and we will all rush a hive location and take it down. The hive will start building and then 5 jet/hmg will come in and trash us. Then when we all have 33 res we do stupid stuff like make the whole team go lerk at once (actually is kinda good which is scary) and then spike the bejeezus out of them. Its fun cuz you can almost see the contorted look on the commanders face when one of his hives go down after he thinks he has won the game. P.S. Am i missing something here? 90% of all games i play end up being 50 minits to 2 hour games.
What the *beepity beep* is the point of making the games shorter? You'd think that NS was <i>meant</i> to have longer battles... It isn't nearly as much fun to just go and slaughter them all in ten minutes as to actually <i>fight</i> for victory.
Lots of people seem to just want to tech in 2 seconds.
I <b>don't</b> want HA/HMG in 2 seconds. Wth, why would you wanna just jump in like that? I'd like to see extended play between ALL the tech levels in this game. You don't think LA LMG Skulk battles are fun??? Those are a blast! Those little bastids flyin all around you, ambushing you left and right. The beginning of the game is only "waiting" if you make it that way. If you can only get your fix by slapping HA or JP on you... maybe NS isn't for you - I'm sure there are games out there that just shove you in a flying suit and give you a big gun right off the bat.
I would personally like to see 10/15 minutes of beginning level tech drama play out. LA marines jumping through phases, mining and turreting, cloaked/carapaced/celeritied Skulks making mad rushes, pushing the Marine line back, making way for the Gorge to push the infestation line forward.
THEN, after 10/15 minutes you might see some Fades or 2, along with some better equiped Marines. Pushes back and forth will be more drastic, more intense.
At the 30 minute mark I'd like to see a good set of Fades, Umbra, a few Scattered Onoss, HA, HMG, JPs, etc., where the battle climaxes and its the most intense gameplay EV4R!! That would be my dream game layout, with the final stage lasting however long it needed to (obviously with some sort of limit). I would also have no problem stretching that game timeline out either, where the climax happens at 45 minutes - that would be awesome. But I guess just my opinion..
TFC matches last longer than ten minutes, and TFC's got nowhere near the strategic complexity of NS (STRATEGIC complexity. Yes, I know there's depth to TFC, but that's not my point).
If anything, I'd like to see games average an hour. The best game I ever played was shortly after NS came out; on caged, the game ran for at least three hours and dragged on into the wee hours of the morning.
Come on, it's not like there's any shortage of fast paced games out there (Quake 3 deathmatch, anyone?). Epic pwns quickie any time.
Now I wouldn't mind if there were some MAPS which were quick games and some which were epic. That would be even better (variety is the spice of life). But all games lasting around ten minutes?!
I spotted the contradiction... it was somewhere around "Leingth of time at 2 and 3 hive stage increased" and "22 minute, that time will be cut in half."
When we get to 3 hives (in a normal game) we spend at least 22 minute prepping for the final assault. Thats after an already leinghty period of struggling for the 2nd hive or getting around that lockdown. that alone takes around an hour.
On top of that, I absolutly HATE being a gorg and not being able to take it all the way to hive 3 so i can fight at least a little. 70% of the time I gorg the marines find a way to lose incredibly fast or quit... usually something along that line and I never get a chance to let those babblers lose.
So are they proposing about 4 min to get hive 2, 4 more to get hive 3 and 3 min at the last stage to launch the final attack?
i simply want to say i love ns BECAUSE a round last 22 mins <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
plz plz plz plz dont make ns a super fast end game like cs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> even a good wc3 round needs more than 10 mins....
also, why and when should i build all the structures in 11 mins?
It's not how long it is that matters, it's what you do with it...<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Or, as applied to NS, I don't mind if the average game length is 5 mins or 5 hours, as long as that 5 min/hours is fun.
I long for the days in which the losing team is against a two-hive-lockdown can fight back and win at least one spot. The slower the better, the darker and eerier the more the merrier. Now with things like the Marine's new motion tracking ability (and lets be honest, this is legalized wallhacking) and the Fades seeming to be indestructable (hey, i play Fades too, and i simply dont die! Fades should be cheaper and less armored) this game has become TFC, nothing is scary anymore. I think that the maps should be darker and become more scary for a squad of marines exiting the base to go and find a place to set up shop. Remember that trailer for NS before it came out? with the marines in the dark corridor and the cloaked Skulk leaping at the camera? THAT is what NS is supposed to be.
<!--QuoteBegin--neonfaktory+Mar 27 2003, 02:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (neonfaktory @ Mar 27 2003, 02:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Lots of people seem to just want to tech in 2 seconds.
I <b>don't</b> want HA/HMG in 2 seconds. Wth, why would you wanna just jump in like that? I'd like to see extended play between ALL the tech levels in this game. You don't think LA LMG Skulk battles are fun??? Those are a blast! Those little bastids flyin all around you, ambushing you left and right. The beginning of the game is only "waiting" if you make it that way. If you can only get your fix by slapping HA or JP on you... maybe NS isn't for you - I'm sure there are games out there that just shove you in a flying suit and give you a big gun right off the bat.
I would personally like to see 10/15 minutes of beginning level tech drama play out. LA marines jumping through phases, mining and turreting, cloaked/carapaced/celeritied Skulks making mad rushes, pushing the Marine line back, making way for the Gorge to push the infestation line forward.
THEN, after 10/15 minutes you might see some Fades or 2, along with some better equiped Marines. Pushes back and forth will be more drastic, more intense.
At the 30 minute mark I'd like to see a good set of Fades, Umbra, a few Scattered Onoss, HA, HMG, JPs, etc., where the battle climaxes and its the most intense gameplay EV4R!! That would be my dream game layout, with the final stage lasting however long it needed to (obviously with some sort of limit). I would also have no problem stretching that game timeline out either, where the climax happens at 45 minutes - that would be awesome. But I guess just my opinion.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you understand us Strategy players and i commend you. What we all want for NS is perfectly balanced forces from the beginning to the end. Right now its like each team is on the end of a see-saw. One push and one team goes up and more powerful, the other starts to fall and loses all control. In most games i play it seems to be that a measly FIFTEEN seconds is the difference between winning and losing. Once a team has started on that downward slope, it is impossible to make a come-back. Evenly powered frenzied battles between shadow-stalking skulks and nervous triggery marines is what we want back.
Playing NS is like taking part in a STORY... a CAMPAIGN. You scout, you advance, you fight and you win... or lose. It's this kind of thing that make NS more than a "normal" game.. it's "Epic".
1.1 seems to offer a wider variety of tactics to achive victory... but makeing the game advance too fast will result in a situation like this: - game begins - chosse a tactic +-+- tactic works: you win +- tactic fails: you are fscked
This would be worse then the usual Tech-Ruch-Clanwar... Long an "epic" matches is what makes NS special... the best games I played were about 1-2 hours of struggeling... don't make NS become just a Sci-Fi-CS!!!
I normaly dont say much on the forums because with some thousand members its all already said, but it seems the number of people might make a difference in this thread. My personal oppinion: longer games are better than short ones.
for 368 posts I'd say you probably don't say as little on the forums as you claim to <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I probably ought not to post this, but I will anyways (forgive me, Charlie):
I was the guy that made the NS Wise Installer packages for the game (both during playtests and the final 1.0 version - yes, the desktop shortcut was my bug, /me bows). During the course of NS' playtesting over many months, I probably made 30 separate installations, based on builds of code Flay provided me. With every build, I got an emailed note with the changelog and other info I needed for communiques with the testers that I was organizing (this is pre-Grendel). And with every email, Flayra would say <i>'... and I think that this version will finally bring the long game times way down!!!'.</i>
It never did <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So, I'm just saying, wait for more details before you get all worked up. Carry on.
I still do not see the correlation between good/fun and abominably long games. (1+ hour)
What you guys like are close, well fought games that go back and forth a few times. Fair enough, but they don't have to last all freaking day to be enjoyable. I've had such a game recently that went back and forth at least half a dozen times and it didn't last more than 30 minutes.
I love the long <i>heated</i> battles. One thing that bugs me is the quick tech or mega rushing. If anything, I think the slow-down of resources would provide a more strategic balance. No longer will a commander with some binds and a fast reflex make the diffeence between win and loose (15 seconds really can make the difference). Instead, we will see long-term planing and adjustments to stratagey as marines and khaara adjust plans based on opposition. Right now we see very little concern for strategic locations until the fight is almost over. Make the towers gather slower and buildings build slower/cost more. I don't really think teh game should be about who has the structures up first, but rather how you use the equipment you have over the long term.
While we're at it, make spawning cost res. Maybe people would not be so eager to rush, but rather pace themselves.
Comments
I may be alone on this, but I think the level 0 battles are the most fun. Make them last as long as possible without the gorge(s) getting bored.
In games long games from 2 hours till 7 hours (rare!) NS shows its MMORPG qualities <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I too frowned when I read that Flarya would be trying to speed up the games, I already felt that games were becoming shorter and shorter, and less and less fun. It really seems like a team will really take control in the first few minutes, and stomp towards the end in 15-20 minutes (sometimes shorter with a JP rush or a failed relocate).
I find a good face paced game as much fun as the next guy, with both aliens and marines rushing up the tech tree... skulks VS marines, the carapaced skulks against lvl 1 upgrade marines, then fades against marines with higher upgrades, then endgame. But I LOVED the games of old, where you had a long 1-2 hour game of HA/JP marines trying to take down an important location, and Fade / Lerks trying to take down an important location as well.
Each team has people attacking and people defending... one team gets wiped out, so the other has to fall back, etc... etc... It is usally decided when one team plays exceptionally well, and manages to blow through the other's defenses and make a wound so deep that they cannot recover.
THAT'S a game! THAT'S strategy, that's FUN! 2 HA/HMG, 1 HA/Gren, one welder.... 1-2 FAdes + Lerk, maybe + gorge... Only in a long game do you see multiple fights between squads like that. Sooooo much fun.
Ravlen
Some matches finish earlier, either by an early game marine rush or mid-game cara skulk rush (I say mid-game in the sense of an average timeline, not mid-game as in mid-tech tree). And some games go on later:
Matches which last beyond the 15-20 minute mark usually fall into 2 categories. Match play when an alien team has its hive defended well enough to stop JP hits, but are unable to push out and take a 2nd hive. Or pub play where a marine side may have locked down 2 hives, but delayed their tech so much in doing so that the aliens now have obscene amounts of res and the entire map is a wall of lame with aliens controlling all but 2 res points. In this scenario the aliens could probably pull the game back if they just got their act together and co-ordinated a rush, and the marine team could have won already if only they'd spent more res on map control and upgrades instead of sealing themselves into the hives.
In either case, matches longer than 15-20 minutes in 1.04 can basically be regarded as some form of stalemate. Fights between mid-game techs are very very unlikely. Games usually end quickly whenever one team gets ahead of the other except in the cases mentioned above. Reaching 2 hive tech as an alien team means you immediately have access to web, which often stops JP hits cold. This boosted defence breaks the deadlock straight away. Marines can no longer keep aliens on the defensive for fear of JP hits, so the alien team can push forward. Given the opportunity to do so, alien 2 hive tech is extremely powerful and will usually finish the game there and then.
What i'm getting at is, 10-15 minutes is a pretty average game length for matches at the moment. Flayras 22 minute average is probably only that long because it accounts for public play stalemates. A reduced average gametime could simply mean that stalemates are becoming less likely. For example, the proposed idea of aliens gaining acess to all evolutions from 1 hive would mean any 2 hive lockdown strat could be easily broken, and would force marines to put more pressure on the aliens main hive. This doesn't change clanplay drastically, but it turns the public scene on its head. With some system like this in place, most of the turret farm stalemates no longer exist, and thus we get a lower average gametime.
Hopefully the average is going to be brought down because the drawn out 2-hive lockdowns are going to be much more difficult to do in 1.1.
I wouldn't worry too much. We've got PTs here stating they liked long games too and if it's an issue in PT'ing Flayra will get to learn about it.
PS. I too like long evenly balanced see-saw matches. Long drawn out 2-hive lockdowns are boring on the other hand.
Its when the game is waving back and forth that it is the most fun. Noone is sure wich side is going to win, and you have to put up with one helluva fight if you want your team to be victorious.
any way thats IMHO.
Right now I already miss the times of 1.0 when the games wre long (although i have to admit that that was due to inexperience) and I would prefer longer games, 1.04 is already to fast for my liking most of the time, except when one side uses and interesting new tactic to end the game early.
It is an interesting thing too, to use what you got (skulks, carapace, 1 hive lerk) to the best of its abilities. It is challenging.
it starts slowly then keeps building on the tension. sweet
Let me clarify, not 2 hive lockdowns where aliens have not been able to recover, but marines have not been able to take the last hive quickly, but rather those where there is a constant balance between fades and ha/hmg or jp/HMGers, or just level 3 lmgers even. the middle hive is always a scene of mass rushes from both teams.
A large proportion of these epic games I've played in have been on ns_caged. Great map for good balance IMHO <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thankfully, the entire community feels the same way, and I'm sure we'll be pleasantly surprised when 1.1 is ready.
Roo
P.S. Am i missing something here? 90% of all games i play end up being 50 minits to 2 hour games.
At least, it was supposed to be like that in the pre-release days.
Oh well, I enjoy long games. They're more fullfilling than short ones.
I <b>don't</b> want HA/HMG in 2 seconds. Wth, why would you wanna just jump in like that? I'd like to see extended play between ALL the tech levels in this game. You don't think LA LMG Skulk battles are fun??? Those are a blast! Those little bastids flyin all around you, ambushing you left and right. The beginning of the game is only "waiting" if you make it that way. If you can only get your fix by slapping HA or JP on you... maybe NS isn't for you - I'm sure there are games out there that just shove you in a flying suit and give you a big gun right off the bat.
I would personally like to see 10/15 minutes of beginning level tech drama play out. LA marines jumping through phases, mining and turreting, cloaked/carapaced/celeritied Skulks making mad rushes, pushing the Marine line back, making way for the Gorge to push the infestation line forward.
THEN, after 10/15 minutes you might see some Fades or 2, along with some better equiped Marines. Pushes back and forth will be more drastic, more intense.
At the 30 minute mark I'd like to see a good set of Fades, Umbra, a few Scattered Onoss, HA, HMG, JPs, etc., where the battle climaxes and its the most intense gameplay EV4R!! That would be my dream game layout, with the final stage lasting however long it needed to (obviously with some sort of limit). I would also have no problem stretching that game timeline out either, where the climax happens at 45 minutes - that would be awesome. But I guess just my opinion..
If anything, I'd like to see games average an hour. The best game I ever played was shortly after NS came out; on caged, the game ran for at least three hours and dragged on into the wee hours of the morning.
Come on, it's not like there's any shortage of fast paced games out there (Quake 3 deathmatch, anyone?). Epic pwns quickie any time.
Now I wouldn't mind if there were some MAPS which were quick games and some which were epic. That would be even better (variety is the spice of life). But all games lasting around ten minutes?!
When we get to 3 hives (in a normal game) we spend at least 22 minute prepping for the final assault. Thats after an already leinghty period of struggling for the 2nd hive or getting around that lockdown. that alone takes around an hour.
On top of that, I absolutly HATE being a gorg and not being able to take it all the way to hive 3 so i can fight at least a little. 70% of the time I gorg the marines find a way to lose incredibly fast or quit... usually something along that line and I never get a chance to let those babblers lose.
So are they proposing about 4 min to get hive 2, 4 more to get hive 3 and 3 min at the last stage to launch the final attack?
I'll have to ask the wife what that analogy would be first though... something to do with length...
i simply want to say i love ns BECAUSE a round last 22 mins <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
plz plz plz plz dont make ns a super fast end game like cs <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
even a good wc3 round needs more than 10 mins....
also, why and when should i build all the structures in 11 mins?
Or, as applied to NS, I don't mind if the average game length is 5 mins or 5 hours, as long as that 5 min/hours is fun.
But that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.
LM
I <b>don't</b> want HA/HMG in 2 seconds. Wth, why would you wanna just jump in like that? I'd like to see extended play between ALL the tech levels in this game. You don't think LA LMG Skulk battles are fun??? Those are a blast! Those little bastids flyin all around you, ambushing you left and right. The beginning of the game is only "waiting" if you make it that way. If you can only get your fix by slapping HA or JP on you... maybe NS isn't for you - I'm sure there are games out there that just shove you in a flying suit and give you a big gun right off the bat.
I would personally like to see 10/15 minutes of beginning level tech drama play out. LA marines jumping through phases, mining and turreting, cloaked/carapaced/celeritied Skulks making mad rushes, pushing the Marine line back, making way for the Gorge to push the infestation line forward.
THEN, after 10/15 minutes you might see some Fades or 2, along with some better equiped Marines. Pushes back and forth will be more drastic, more intense.
At the 30 minute mark I'd like to see a good set of Fades, Umbra, a few Scattered Onoss, HA, HMG, JPs, etc., where the battle climaxes and its the most intense gameplay EV4R!! That would be my dream game layout, with the final stage lasting however long it needed to (obviously with some sort of limit). I would also have no problem stretching that game timeline out either, where the climax happens at 45 minutes - that would be awesome. But I guess just my opinion.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you understand us Strategy players and i commend you. What we all want for NS is perfectly balanced forces from the beginning to the end. Right now its like each team is on the end of a see-saw. One push and one team goes up and more powerful, the other starts to fall and loses all control. In most games i play it seems to be that a measly FIFTEEN seconds is the difference between winning and losing. Once a team has started on that downward slope, it is impossible to make a come-back. Evenly powered frenzied battles between shadow-stalking skulks and nervous triggery marines is what we want back.
LM
You scout, you advance, you fight and you win... or lose.
It's this kind of thing that make NS more than a "normal" game.. it's "Epic".
1.1 seems to offer a wider variety of tactics to achive victory... but makeing the game advance too fast will result in a situation like this:
- game begins
- chosse a tactic
+-+- tactic works: you win
+- tactic fails: you are fscked
This would be worse then the usual Tech-Ruch-Clanwar...
Long an "epic" matches is what makes NS special... the best games I played were about 1-2 hours of struggeling... don't make NS become just a Sci-Fi-CS!!!
I was the guy that made the NS Wise Installer packages for the game (both during playtests and the final 1.0 version - yes, the desktop shortcut was my bug, /me bows). During the course of NS' playtesting over many months, I probably made 30 separate installations, based on builds of code Flay provided me. With every build, I got an emailed note with the changelog and other info I needed for communiques with the testers that I was organizing (this is pre-Grendel). And with every email, Flayra would say <i>'... and I think that this version will finally bring the long game times way down!!!'.</i>
It never did <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
So, I'm just saying, wait for more details before you get all worked up. Carry on.
What you guys like are close, well fought games that go back and forth a few times. Fair enough, but they don't have to last all freaking day to be enjoyable. I've had such a game recently that went back and forth at least half a dozen times and it didn't last more than 30 minutes.
Make the towers gather slower and buildings build slower/cost more. I don't really think teh game should be about who has the structures up first, but rather how you use the equipment you have over the long term.
While we're at it, make spawning cost res. Maybe people would not be so eager to rush, but rather pace themselves.