Hrm... I don't wanna set off a mine or something.. but to be honest.. every PT I've seen LOVES the new lerk.. and honestly... I, as a newb, found bite decently useless... which is fine... my first wee of playing I found the LMG useles... b/c I couldn't shoot the broad side of a hive.. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> However... I think that having a support role creature on the alien team is something that I like.. and I bet other newbs would too.. b/c it give us, who have little knowledge of the maps, or the combat abilities something to do, and to specialize in, as we learn... I know that might ruffle some vetren feathers.. and I'm setting myslef up for some possible flamage.. and I'm possibly wrong, and acting like a.... :-:whoa:-: Newb... but.. *sigh* I also love forums, sinc eI'm alowed to give my messed up opinion.. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--TickTock+May 18 2003, 11:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TickTock @ May 18 2003, 11:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We've already got a skulk. I don't also need a flying skulk. I want the lerk to be unique, and this will do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quite frankly I don't understand why people believe the mere existence of bite somehow means that they are "flying skulks" as even if they do choose to use bite (as 1.04 lerks have options to allow multiple types of fun), then they move far too slow on the ground to fight like a skulk (ie, zig-zagging towards the marine firing at them then quickly spinning around the marine... etc..).. also skulks have completly different other attacks... parasite allows a skulk who lost a second chance to kill the marine, as well as support his entire team with locations of everything... leap with its capability to confuse opponents as well as a useful method of moving... and finally xenocide with its ability to say, "I may die, but I'm killing you guys as well.... AND I'M MESSING UP YOUR CAR TOO!"
... yes.. these all become the universe that is the skulk... now, there may be similarities between the lerk and the skulk.. as they both are very vulnerable to bullets and must either use surprise (lerks coming out of nowhere and biting vs. skulks suddenly falling from the ceiling on their feet and more than likely on a marine's face) or confusion (a skilled lerk's flying vs. a skilled leaper's "Wait, where'd he go?")... both, being small, must either learn to dodge the aim of marines or die quickly... the last is a fact that you can never change about the skulk and the lerk, without completely changing the very nature of ns itself (200 hp skulks would make the game poor)... so, being weak.. they obviously can't be completely unique at all...
When you think about it, all Kharra are extremely dead at long ranges. This is why they all have close range weapons, even if it is really a backup, such as the gorges healing spray. Quite frankly, when I don’t feel like being in someone’s face, I play as marines…. of course I use a shotgun and end up getting in their face and blowing out their brains anyways, but that’s besides the point… or perhaps that is the point, one of the things ns is about is close range fighting... I have to say its one of the reasons I got hooked… I understand that some players enjoy hit and runs, which is why I stated before that I found the title of the poll sickening “spike or bite vote”… but if you wanted to read about that, you would have read page 7 (I believe) of this thread…
..But perhaps we should think about how they are different.. the skulk runs and climbs ceilings and walls, whereas the lerk flies and (in 1.1) clings to ceilings... now this may seam like a small difference but in fact it is something very important in the way they are played… also, the different abilities allow them to complete their different tasks… the bite of the lerks provides more confusion to the matter by making them look up while they might be currently under attack from the skulk completing his role as the light shock-fighter… as the lerk is busy completing the role that in 1.04 is very vague and at the same time a role that fills in the cracks in the Kharaa individualists, helping bond together as a team in their pursuit of protecting the hive which is so dear to them…
But this ability to keep the “team” together is what makes the lerk so important… and altogether different from the skulk, who’s main point is to have as many abilities as possible to be a light fighter…
… but lets go back to what I said the other day about fades and onos. I was wrong. Onos completely fill their role in the minds of the players as “juggernaut”… the powerful BIG charging thing which is obvious, strong, and of course, able to wreak havoc through insanely intimating in your face power…
As for alternative ways of making the lerk “unique” while still keeping the part of the community that loves to fly, read what I posted earlier in this thread about my talon idea (I believe it was in 1-3 somewhere)…
In the end, I really don't care if lerks are unique. All I really care about is not weather or not they fill the role of whatever the creator of the game decides, but the role that the players of the game had deep in their subconscious mind before they ever heard of it, waiting to be unlocked and discovered.
As sleep consumes me at 3 a.m. central time, I would like to apologize to those who are reading this and do not like the organization or whatever. I would also like to apologize about my method of analyzing things. I am much too tired to deal with that now. I would NOT like to apologize to those who are of differing situation / opinion from me. I have said before that those people who prefer hit and run sniper have the right to play the lerk as such, as it is a role that I am sure they have always wanted an excuse to do so. But keep in mind there are also players who prefer the more flight-ly method because they too, have perhaps always wanted to be able to fill that role, and they deserve at least as much positive gratification as I have given you. In my entire life, I have never been able to dive down and tear my larger pray to shreds. Before it was only a dream.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the end, I really don't care if lerks are unique. All I really care about is not weather or not they fill the role of whatever the creator of the game decides, but the role that the players of the game had deep in their subconscious mind before they ever heard of it, waiting to be unlocked and discovered.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good! I thought they were spiking, sporing, umbraing, screaming little guerilla fighter support units that flew around all day without bite! Deep in my subconscious, of course. So, there, settled!
This topic will never be settled until v1.1 comes out. Since most of us are speculating about this, I think we should close all of these topics and then come back to the forum when v1.1 comes out. If we find that lerk was better in v1.04, flay will probably change it but as of right now, we are all speculating what the gameplay will be like. Of course I like to lerk bite, in fact I hope flayra keeps it but unfortunately, all the topics about this have been the same stuff repeated over and over. Once v1.1 comes out I think we will all have a better taste of the game and the feel of it. The poll should also be closed right now because it only seems to bring up these topics. The poll would do a lot of good if it was put up when v1.1 was released. Then we would all have knowledge of the actual gameplay and then we could yell at each other <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+May 16 2003, 09:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ May 16 2003, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> umbra i think should not be projectable because i think if the lerk is able to help his team with that shield he should have to risk himself by jumping into the middle of the action to deploy it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I feel the same way about umbra. Projecting it is more useful (most the time not for yourself but I personally rarely used it on myself anyways) but at the same I agree, having to fly in and drop it is much more dramatic. For example charging a turrent farm with a fade or skulk and surrounding your group with umbra by their side was always fun.
Yeah, I agree with ya there. I think this topic should be closed now, its getting too long. Umbra should be discussed in a new topic so i can identify what we want to talk about.
Comments
Quite frankly I don't understand why people believe the mere existence of bite somehow means that they are "flying skulks" as even if they do choose to use bite (as 1.04 lerks have options to allow multiple types of fun), then they move far too slow on the ground to fight like a skulk (ie, zig-zagging towards the marine firing at them then quickly spinning around the marine... etc..).. also skulks have completly different other attacks... parasite allows a skulk who lost a second chance to kill the marine, as well as support his entire team with locations of everything... leap with its capability to confuse opponents as well as a useful method of moving... and finally xenocide with its ability to say, "I may die, but I'm killing you guys as well.... AND I'M MESSING UP YOUR CAR TOO!"
... yes.. these all become the universe that is the skulk... now, there may be similarities between the lerk and the skulk.. as they both are very vulnerable to bullets and must either use surprise (lerks coming out of nowhere and biting vs. skulks suddenly falling from the ceiling on their feet and more than likely on a marine's face) or confusion (a skilled lerk's flying vs. a skilled leaper's "Wait, where'd he go?")... both, being small, must either learn to dodge the aim of marines or die quickly... the last is a fact that you can never change about the skulk and the lerk, without completely changing the very nature of ns itself (200 hp skulks would make the game poor)... so, being weak.. they obviously can't be completely unique at all...
When you think about it, all Kharra are extremely dead at long ranges. This is why they all have close range weapons, even if it is really a backup, such as the gorges healing spray. Quite frankly, when I don’t feel like being in someone’s face, I play as marines…. of course I use a shotgun and end up getting in their face and blowing out their brains anyways, but that’s besides the point… or perhaps that is the point, one of the things ns is about is close range fighting... I have to say its one of the reasons I got hooked… I understand that some players enjoy hit and runs, which is why I stated before that I found the title of the poll sickening “spike or bite vote”… but if you wanted to read about that, you would have read page 7 (I believe) of this thread…
..But perhaps we should think about how they are different.. the skulk runs and climbs ceilings and walls, whereas the lerk flies and (in 1.1) clings to ceilings... now this may seam like a small difference but in fact it is something very important in the way they are played… also, the different abilities allow them to complete their different tasks… the bite of the lerks provides more confusion to the matter by making them look up while they might be currently under attack from the skulk completing his role as the light shock-fighter… as the lerk is busy completing the role that in 1.04 is very vague and at the same time a role that fills in the cracks in the Kharaa individualists, helping bond together as a team in their pursuit of protecting the hive which is so dear to them…
But this ability to keep the “team” together is what makes the lerk so important… and altogether different from the skulk, who’s main point is to have as many abilities as possible to be a light fighter…
… but lets go back to what I said the other day about fades and onos. I was wrong. Onos completely fill their role in the minds of the players as “juggernaut”… the powerful BIG charging thing which is obvious, strong, and of course, able to wreak havoc through insanely intimating in your face power…
As for alternative ways of making the lerk “unique” while still keeping the part of the community that loves to fly, read what I posted earlier in this thread about my talon idea (I believe it was in 1-3 somewhere)…
In the end, I really don't care if lerks are unique. All I really care about is not weather or not they fill the role of whatever the creator of the game decides, but the role that the players of the game had deep in their subconscious mind before they ever heard of it, waiting to be unlocked and discovered.
As sleep consumes me at 3 a.m. central time, I would like to apologize to those who are reading this and do not like the organization or whatever. I would also like to apologize about my method of analyzing things. I am much too tired to deal with that now. I would NOT like to apologize to those who are of differing situation / opinion from me. I have said before that those people who prefer hit and run sniper have the right to play the lerk as such, as it is a role that I am sure they have always wanted an excuse to do so. But keep in mind there are also players who prefer the more flight-ly method because they too, have perhaps always wanted to be able to fill that role, and they deserve at least as much positive gratification as I have given you. In my entire life, I have never been able to dive down and tear my larger pray to shreds. Before it was only a dream.
Good! I thought they were spiking, sporing, umbraing, screaming little guerilla fighter support units that flew around all day without bite! Deep in my subconscious, of course. So, there, settled!
The poll should also be closed right now because it only seems to bring up these topics. The poll would do a lot of good if it was put up when v1.1 was released. Then we would all have knowledge of the actual gameplay and then we could yell at each other <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
umbra i think should not be projectable because i think if the lerk is able to help his team with that shield he should have to risk himself by jumping into the middle of the action to deploy it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel the same way about umbra. Projecting it is more useful (most the time not for yourself but I personally rarely used it on myself anyways) but at the same I agree, having to fly in and drop it is much more dramatic. For example charging a turrent farm with a fade or skulk and surrounding your group with umbra by their side was always fun.