<!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Aug 8 2003, 08:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Aug 8 2003, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 9 2003, 02:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 9 2003, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 4 days, 4 months. I play 5 or 6 games a day since it was released and play almost exclusively aliens. Sitting around isn't going to make a damn difference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then you cant say what is balanced, we play atleast one clanmatch a day + loads of (i hate to say it) public games too, yet we are not allowed to say its balanced or otherwise, ALTHO flayra did say that the games balance is not good as a balanced game is not a fun game, over in the public beta forum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The best thing I hear here and on IRC is this:
"What's the counter to (Marine tactic X)?"
"Simple. You just need to (Insert horribly complicated alien strategy that requires 5+ players to execute)."
"What's the counter to (Alien tactic Y)?"
"The (Insert 3 words about marines firepower or armor, like 'HA/GL')."
People keep saying it's balanced, but everything I hear says that it's horribly unbalanced in favor of marines. I should NOT need 1/2 my teammates to kill 1/4 of the marine team. Which is all I'm hearing. It's gotten to the point where it's almost a joke:
Simple. Get 2 lerks to provide primal roar and umbra support while an onos wades into the battle. The onos carries 3 gorges on his back so they can hop over the turrets and create a sensory chamber, so that the 4 fades can run in undetected and create a distraction for the 8 skulks to hop in and leap-kill everything.
And then the flipside:
What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--DarkFrost+Aug 8 2003, 08:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Aug 8 2003, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 9 2003, 02:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 9 2003, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 4 days, 4 months. I play 5 or 6 games a day since it was released and play almost exclusively aliens. Sitting around isn't going to make a damn difference. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then you cant say what is balanced, we play atleast one clanmatch a day + loads of (i hate to say it) public games too, yet we are not allowed to say its balanced or otherwise, ALTHO flayra did say that the games balance is not good as a balanced game is not a fun game, over in the public beta forum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The best thing I hear here and on IRC is this:
"What's the counter to (Marine tactic X)?"
"Simple. You just need to (Insert horribly complicated alien strategy that requires 5+ players to execute)."
"What's the counter to (Alien tactic Y)?"
"The (Insert 3 words about marines firepower or armor, like 'HA/GL')."
People keep saying it's balanced, but everything I hear says that it's horribly unbalanced in favor of marines. I should NOT need 1/2 my teammates to kill 1/4 of the marine team. Which is all I'm hearing. It's gotten to the point where it's almost a joke:
Simple. Get 2 lerks to provide primal roar and umbra support while an onos wades into the battle. The onos carries 3 gorges on his back so they can hop over the turrets and create a sensory chamber, so that the 4 fades can run in undetected and create a distraction for the 8 skulks to hop in and leap-kill everything.
And then the flipside:
What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why dont we make it so that you need 2 marines to fire a gun, one to actually shoot it and the other behind him to be the cheerleader.
Example:
*Marine enters room with skulk.* <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY! GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> : AHH1!!! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> : D=
Or you can add even more teamwork, having marines require another marine to help them reload their guns.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : OMG BEN I CANT RELOAD MY "LIGHT" MACHINE GUN. THE CLIP IS TOO HEAVY. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : LET ME HELP YOU JOHN. *Ben proceeds to help john in the strenous work of reloading.* <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> THANKS BEN! OH **** LOOK OUT!! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> = <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why dont we add some more teamwork requirements for marines, like having every marine chained to another, so they have to MOVE together, and DIE together. There! Teamwork at its best! ;-))
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 09:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why dont we make it so that you need 2 marines to fire a gun, one to actually shoot it and the other behind him to be the cheerleader.
Example:
*Marine enters room with skulk.* <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY! GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> : AHH1!!! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> : D= <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Great idea <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you honestly telling me that one marine with a shotgun will stop an onos? - Tink
FAdes aren't really the weak class everyone is making them out to be. They merely require a much- revamped strategy to be used to their full effect.
<i>Lesson 1</i>: Fades are no longer walking tanks. They cannot simply wade into te marine spawn and swipe away without seriously considering a good escape route. We all have seen how quickly oni get pwned in the middle of a squad of marines-doesn't it stand to reason that fades would require even <i>less</i> damage to be killed? A solution is to use the fade intelligently-blink in, get a kill, blink out. If you're not completely positive that you can get out, then upgrade the frowned-upon redemption. Personally, I still use carapace when I'm a fade. If you can blink around fast enough, you can hit a marine before he knows what happened (one can swipe before the blink animation is finished-just quickswitch back to swipe as you land in front of a marine. You'll get a quick hit in before the swipe animation begins to be used).
<i>Lesson 2</i> Let the oni take care of structures-you just blink around and try not to get killed, killing whenever a perfect opportunity arises.
<i>Lesson 3</i> Never be afraid to run away and use metabolize-it's an excellent skill that nearly eliminates the use of offensively-placed DC 'healing stations.' It won't take long to regain full health and armor - it just requires a small degee fo patience.
In conclusion, fades have a much-different role than they did in 1.x Instead of being the workhorses for the aliens (the oni have shouldered that burden), they can focus on eliminating the marines and staying alive. Be smart, conscientous, and intelligent and you should be racking up the kills in no time.
Damn, I must be doing something wrong. I easily get 10-15 marine kills per fade life (plus some structures). Those are hit and runs, of course. I usually end up dying due to a poor exit path (get stuck in ceiling beam) or another alien blocking my path. What should I be doing to get killed so easily? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Monkey is part right. Marines do have it pretty straightforward if they aren't behind. In 2.0 against a real team of aliens, they should get behind, but it depends on just how many good aliens there are. Once Flayra is done correcting the instant alien advantage, we'll see these problems with marines that right now are only popping up in pub situations where the aliens failed to capitalize.
And yeah, the fade costs 50. It's not worth 50 compared to the skulk. Fixing one problem in 2.0 just reveals more of them, and then they say "see it was better before" -- no, it means there is more work to do. I'm disappointed with 2.0.
how about adding a very strong swipe at the end of blink that does like 160 damage(would only activate when infront of an enemy, just let go of blink and if yor in range of an enemy it would do it automatically). tap blink, let go, get kill instantly, blink away
I find it takes to long to actually hit and kill a marine once you get in range. In a group of upgraded marines, what you meet by the time you have res for fade, event he few seconds to end blink, take out swipe, get 2 hits, switch to blink, blink away to safety will getcha
with this way you dont even have to change direction. Just let go of blink,and press it again, going through the corpse
Because at 3 hive level, they can fight any type of marine with a lot of effeciency.
You probably are using fade in the wrong way:
The role of fade:
To be vastly superior to lmg/la marines - to be hit and run
You arnt meant to be able to take on hmg marines, let alone HA HMG.
Fades kill LA marines with ease, and fades die very rarely. Fades can solo well - they heal themselves at a fairly rapid rate. Get in trouble and with adren you can perma-blink
In fact id say on pubs i kill at least 25 marines on average before dieing as fade, and thats if i do die.
HOWEVER if you are losing, and have HA HMG to deal with, and you DONT have three hives, fade isnt the option, ur much better saving for that Onos, which will counter the HA hmg better
<i>The old, grey Fade, she ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be...</i>
Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the 2.0 Fade. Right now, a Fade really isn't worth the 50 res. I've started avoiding the Fade almost all together, preferring to save up for the Onos or going Gorge/Lerk earlier.
My biggest problem with the Fade is that it lacks a solid purpose. All the other aliens have a function. Skulks harass, Gorges build, Lerks support, etc. Fades were a general purpose fighter, but now acid rocket is three hives and Fades don't have the range attack until you near the end. Swipe, blink and metabolize lend themselves to hit-and-run tactics, but for 50 res, you get something that's about equal to Skulk harassment. Swipe, blink, metabolize and good health/armor compared to chompeh, parasite, leap and vent access? It's not a bad comparison, but it's not 50 res good.
I don't know if I'm using blink wrong or something, but I don't have the energy to blink into a base/group, attack and blink out again. As a skulk, I don't really worry about dying, since I'm free and get 2-3 kills on average per life. It may not be an impressive 15 kills/life like some people get as a Fade, but I didn't spend 50 res. Once I hit 100 res, I go redeem Onos and usually end up with something like 30-45 kills/life. Whenever I die as an Onos, I almost always have the res to go Onos again.
I honestly don't think that hit-and-run is a good role for the Fade. It's more then covered by Skulks and Lerks. It isn't a general purpose fighter until 3 hives. It doesn't have any abilities geared towards base assault. It's expensive. It's only attack until 3 hives is only marginally better then a Skulk. The Fade could really use a niche, or a cost reduction.
Or since fades cost 50 res, and hives cost 35 and have 5500 HP. Fades should have 7500 HP then, or not? If we all take res into account, of course my dear Monkeybonk ;-)).
I second the "Fade is ok" motion <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--The Finch+Aug 9 2003, 03:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Aug 9 2003, 03:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <i>The old, grey Fade, she ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be, ain't what she used to be...</i>
Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the 2.0 Fade. Right now, a Fade really isn't worth the 50 res. I've started avoiding the Fade almost all together, preferring to save up for the Onos or going Gorge/Lerk earlier.
My biggest problem with the Fade is that it lacks a solid purpose. All the other aliens have a function. Skulks harass, Gorges build, Lerks support, etc. Fades were a general purpose fighter, but now acid rocket is three hives and Fades don't have the range attack until you near the end. Swipe, blink and metabolize lend themselves to hit-and-run tactics, but for 50 res, you get something that's about equal to Skulk harassment. Swipe, blink, metabolize and good health/armor compared to chompeh, parasite, leap and vent access? It's not a bad comparison, but it's not 50 res good.
I don't know if I'm using blink wrong or something, but I don't have the energy to blink into a base/group, attack and blink out again. As a skulk, I don't really worry about dying, since I'm free and get 2-3 kills on average per life. It may not be an impressive 15 kills/life like some people get as a Fade, but I didn't spend 50 res. Once I hit 100 res, I go redeem Onos and usually end up with something like 30-45 kills/life. Whenever I die as an Onos, I almost always have the res to go Onos again.
I honestly don't think that hit-and-run is a good role for the Fade. It's more then covered by Skulks and Lerks. It isn't a general purpose fighter until 3 hives. It doesn't have any abilities geared towards base assault. It's expensive. It's only attack until 3 hives is only marginally better then a Skulk. The Fade could really use a niche, or a cost reduction. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, The fade isnt what use to be....
Its just a huge freaking target, its slow and the added armor and health dont help much when It takes forever to catch a backpeddling marine. (After blinking right in front of him :/ )
If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them.
Can Fades get hit while blinking? If so, I think Blink should go much faster and cost more stamina to balance it out (i.e. same amount of stamina to go same distance).
Then again, this is just an idea. I know next to nothing about balance, and have only tried the fade twice. Both times I think I died when I was blinking away because I ran out of Stamina. =(
In this game death comes so fast that the time it takes to turn around and use blink seems daunting to me. And it sucks when my stamina then runs out before I escape. Maybe make it cost less stamina or no?
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want?
Furthermore, what is this crap about "Hit and run"? Hit and run harrassment is supposed to be the role of the skulk, the fade SHOULD be the <b>warrior</b> of the aliens. The onos is the 'heavy weapons'. The lerk is the 'combat engineer' and the gorge is the 'support engineer'. Skulks are grunts.
Once again: WARRIOR. I'm not saying that 'Fade sucks at hit and run'. It can perform that. The point is: <b>It shouldn't need to</b>.
Link Finch said: The fade lacks a clear purpose. For 50 res, I should be getting a strong, lithe, agile fighter able to go toe to toe with marines and dance around them. Once marines get upgrades around level 2, the fade should be the skulk replacement to fight them. Instead, it can handle level 1's. That's about it. Heavy armor mows them down, as do level 3 upgrades, and more then 2 marines shooting them.
Instead, you get a weak, slow thing that can't move for CRAP, and has an attack that is quite possibly the worst in the game (Imagine if you got an HMG with 30 bullets that did 10 damage. That's the 'swipe').
Furthermore, you can't actually hit and run, because you're visible and audible when you use blink, and furthermore, cloaking is futile because your name shows up in BIG RED LETTERS for the enemy, and without cloaking you show up on the minimap.
If I want hit and run, I'll use skulks. They can quickly deploy, leap and take someone down, then leap to safety in a vent, or high on a ceiling. A fade has to pray there's a quick exit to friendly ground, or he's dead.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 9 2003, 08:04 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 9 2003, 08:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> *whine* *whine* *whine* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fades... Frankly, You Don't Know How To Use Them In 2.0.
Stop your whining. A Fade in the right hands (such as mine) is a force to be reckoned with, and a damn sight more powerful than in 1.04. Learn to adapt to the changes. And if you can't do that, go lerk and give me my umbra cover, you n00b <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you?
Hmm. OK. So lets make the fade cost 40 res, while you start the game with 25. Then increase its health and armor so that without upgrades it can take on at least 3 or 4 stock marines. Let me think how this would play out...
The point now is aliens need to work as a team, not rambo everywhere, which is why onos was nerfed, ALSO the fact that you brag about "Being the top playing on the skillboard" Shows you don't know what "teamwork" is. Also, I'v taken out 5 marines because of blink, they never know what hit them. ALSO it's been HOW many weeks since the release? A -little- over 1? Give it some time instead of just whining about it because -you- can't do it.
Let's make a gun with a high ROF and a reloading sequence you can interupt that kills all aliens in less then one clip (read: 8 seconds) and make it available without any upgrades, and the cheapest gun to boot! And give it a spread effect so you don't need to... you know... aim.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey bro, thanks for outright insulting me. It sure makes me welcome your ideas. Everyone, look at this guy for who he really is!
Now try explaining everyone why they should listen to you. HF.
<!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The point now is aliens need to work as a team, not rambo everywhere, which is why onos was nerfed, ALSO the fact that you brag about "Being the top playing on the skillboard" Shows you don't know what "teamwork" is. Also, I'v taken out 5 marines because of blink, they never know what hit them. ALSO it's been HOW many weeks since the release? A -little- over 1? Give it some time instead of just whining about it because -you- can't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player?
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The point now is aliens need to work as a team, not rambo everywhere, which is why onos was nerfed, ALSO the fact that you brag about "Being the top playing on the skillboard" Shows you don't know what "teamwork" is. Also, I'v taken out 5 marines because of blink, they never know what hit them. ALSO it's been HOW many weeks since the release? A -little- over 1? Give it some time instead of just whining about it because -you- can't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The point now is aliens need to work as a team, not rambo everywhere, which is why onos was nerfed, ALSO the fact that you brag about "Being the top playing on the skillboard" Shows you don't know what "teamwork" is. Also, I'v taken out 5 marines because of blink, they never know what hit them. ALSO it's been HOW many weeks since the release? A -little- over 1? Give it some time instead of just whining about it because -you- can't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I really don't think I could of said it better myself.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If they nerfed marine movement (So they can't jump around so much) it'd be much easier, but most of the time fade combat us futile because the marines bounce around like springs and you can't hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey bro, thanks for outright insulting me. It sure makes me welcome your ideas. Everyone, look at this guy for who he really is!
Now try explaining everyone why they should listen to you. HF. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're very welcome. Since you don't seem to get it, I'll have to spell it out for you:
Natural-Selection was made with a gritty, sci-fi movie-esque feel. Brave marines sent to clean out a ship of aliens. Now in every movie with humans vs. aliens, aliens have the melee attacks. The humans have to keep the aliens away. And usually, when the alien gets close to the humans, that guy is DEAD. They have guns to keep them away.
Now there's another thing that happens. If the alien is really close, they run. That's right, they RUN!
They don't play hopskotch while firing their gun everywhere.
They don't skip around singing songs while firing their gun everywhere.
They don't pull a matrix and wallrun up the wall while firing their gun everywhere.
They may dodge once, and then run away.
You know how you see in old cartoons like Tom and Jerry, the women always hop on a stool when a mouse is in the room, and totally freak? That's what the marines are like when a skulk is in. They start jumping around, off of each other, etc.
If a dog attacks someone, and they have a gun, what do they do? It runs at them, and they'll dodge to the side. Probably run, or shoot it. But they aren't going to KEEP DODGING IT. Once you dodge a bull, a dog, a skulk, anything, you aren't going to be in a position to keep doing it!
Bunny hopping is an exploit that allows you to move in any direction as fast and you could by running forward, because you continue hopping and retain the speed while you rotate around. Flayra slowed it down so that you can't do that, so you get floor fricition before you can hop again.
But I want you to show me a movie, a book, a video documentary, ANYTHING, of people carrying weapons and high-tech armor hopping around like 8 year old school girls.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, AND IT ESPECIALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN IN MOVIES.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soberana+Aug 8 2003, 11:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Aug 8 2003, 11:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 11:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Deronok+Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deronok @ Aug 8 2003, 11:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The point now is aliens need to work as a team, not rambo everywhere, which is why onos was nerfed, ALSO the fact that you brag about "Being the top playing on the skillboard" Shows you don't know what "teamwork" is. Also, I'v taken out 5 marines because of blink, they never know what hit them. ALSO it's been HOW many weeks since the release? A -little- over 1? Give it some time instead of just whining about it because -you- can't do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahha, so if I said: "I'm the worst play ever. I never get to the top of the killboard. I truely suck. Nerf shotguns" are you going to listen to me? No, it's QUITE OBVIOUS that I'm constantly and incessantly killed by marines, and that's why I'm complaining. I manage with a fade, but it incredibly underperforms.\\
Now since neither of you seem to have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to add, you're both excused from the topic. Any further off-topic posts will be reported to a moderator.
Comments
Then you cant say what is balanced, we play atleast one clanmatch a day + loads of (i hate to say it) public games too, yet we are not allowed to say its balanced or otherwise, ALTHO flayra did say that the games balance is not good as a balanced game is not a fun game, over in the public beta forum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best thing I hear here and on IRC is this:
"What's the counter to (Marine tactic X)?"
"Simple. You just need to (Insert horribly complicated alien strategy that requires 5+ players to execute)."
"What's the counter to (Alien tactic Y)?"
"The (Insert 3 words about marines firepower or armor, like 'HA/GL')."
People keep saying it's balanced, but everything I hear says that it's horribly unbalanced in favor of marines. I should NOT need 1/2 my teammates to kill 1/4 of the marine team. Which is all I'm hearing. It's gotten to the point where it's almost a joke:
Simple. Get 2 lerks to provide primal roar and umbra support while an onos wades into the battle. The onos carries 3 gorges on his back so they can hop over the turrets and create a sensory chamber, so that the 4 fades can run in undetected and create a distraction for the 8 skulks to hop in and leap-kill everything.
And then the flipside:
What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!
Then you cant say what is balanced, we play atleast one clanmatch a day + loads of (i hate to say it) public games too, yet we are not allowed to say its balanced or otherwise, ALTHO flayra did say that the games balance is not good as a balanced game is not a fun game, over in the public beta forum. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best thing I hear here and on IRC is this:
"What's the counter to (Marine tactic X)?"
"Simple. You just need to (Insert horribly complicated alien strategy that requires 5+ players to execute)."
"What's the counter to (Alien tactic Y)?"
"The (Insert 3 words about marines firepower or armor, like 'HA/GL')."
People keep saying it's balanced, but everything I hear says that it's horribly unbalanced in favor of marines. I should NOT need 1/2 my teammates to kill 1/4 of the marine team. Which is all I'm hearing. It's gotten to the point where it's almost a joke:
Simple. Get 2 lerks to provide primal roar and umbra support while an onos wades into the battle. The onos carries 3 gorges on his back so they can hop over the turrets and create a sensory chamber, so that the 4 fades can run in undetected and create a distraction for the 8 skulks to hop in and leap-kill everything.
And then the flipside:
What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why dont we make it so that you need 2 marines to fire a gun, one to actually shoot it and the other behind him to be the cheerleader.
Example:
*Marine enters room with skulk.*
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY! GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> : AHH1!!! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> : D=
Or you can add even more teamwork, having marines require another marine to help them reload their guns.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : OMG BEN I CANT RELOAD MY "LIGHT" MACHINE GUN. THE CLIP IS TOO HEAVY.
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : LET ME HELP YOU JOHN. *Ben proceeds to help john in the strenous work of reloading.*
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> THANKS BEN! OH **** LOOK OUT!!
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> = <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why dont we add some more teamwork requirements for marines, like having every marine chained to another, so they have to MOVE together, and DIE together. There! Teamwork at its best! ;-))
Example:
*Marine enters room with skulk.*
<!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> : GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY! GO BEN ITS UR BIRTHDAY!! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> : AHH1!!! <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> : D= <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Great idea <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 8 2003, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
What's the counter to an onos? A shotgun. Wooo... so complicated! So 'teamworky'!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you honestly telling me that one marine with a shotgun will stop an onos? - Tink
<i>Lesson 1</i>: Fades are no longer walking tanks. They cannot simply wade into te marine spawn and swipe away without seriously considering a good escape route. We all have seen how quickly oni get pwned in the middle of a squad of marines-doesn't it stand to reason that fades would require even <i>less</i> damage to be killed? A solution is to use the fade intelligently-blink in, get a kill, blink out. If you're not completely positive that you can get out, then upgrade the frowned-upon redemption. Personally, I still use carapace when I'm a fade. If you can blink around fast enough, you can hit a marine before he knows what happened (one can swipe before the blink animation is finished-just quickswitch back to swipe as you land in front of a marine. You'll get a quick hit in before the swipe animation begins to be used).
<i>Lesson 2</i> Let the oni take care of structures-you just blink around and try not to get killed, killing whenever a perfect opportunity arises.
<i>Lesson 3</i> Never be afraid to run away and use metabolize-it's an excellent skill that nearly eliminates the use of offensively-placed DC 'healing stations.' It won't take long to regain full health and armor - it just requires a small degee fo patience.
In conclusion, fades have a much-different role than they did in 1.x Instead of being the workhorses for the aliens (the oni have shouldered that burden), they can focus on eliminating the marines and staying alive. Be smart, conscientous, and intelligent and you should be racking up the kills in no time.
And yeah, the fade costs 50. It's not worth 50 compared to the skulk. Fixing one problem in 2.0 just reveals more of them, and then they say "see it was better before" -- no, it means there is more work to do. I'm disappointed with 2.0.
I find it takes to long to actually hit and kill a marine once you get in range. In a group of upgraded marines, what you meet by the time you have res for fade, event he few seconds to end blink, take out swipe, get 2 hits, switch to blink, blink away to safety will getcha
with this way you dont even have to change direction. Just let go of blink,and press it again, going through the corpse
No no no!
Fades are one of my favorite classes in 2.0 -
Why -
Because at 3 hive level, they can fight any type of marine with a lot of effeciency.
You probably are using fade in the wrong way:
The role of fade:
To be vastly superior to lmg/la marines - to be hit and run
You arnt meant to be able to take on hmg marines, let alone HA HMG.
Fades kill LA marines with ease, and fades die very rarely. Fades can solo well - they heal themselves at a fairly rapid rate. Get in trouble and with adren you can perma-blink
In fact id say on pubs i kill at least 25 marines on average before dieing as fade, and thats if i do die.
HOWEVER if you are losing, and have HA HMG to deal with, and you DONT have three hives, fade isnt the option, ur much better saving for that Onos, which will counter the HA hmg better
Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the 2.0 Fade. Right now, a Fade really isn't worth the 50 res. I've started avoiding the Fade almost all together, preferring to save up for the Onos or going Gorge/Lerk earlier.
My biggest problem with the Fade is that it lacks a solid purpose. All the other aliens have a function. Skulks harass, Gorges build, Lerks support, etc. Fades were a general purpose fighter, but now acid rocket is three hives and Fades don't have the range attack until you near the end. Swipe, blink and metabolize lend themselves to hit-and-run tactics, but for 50 res, you get something that's about equal to Skulk harassment. Swipe, blink, metabolize and good health/armor compared to chompeh, parasite, leap and vent access? It's not a bad comparison, but it's not 50 res good.
I don't know if I'm using blink wrong or something, but I don't have the energy to blink into a base/group, attack and blink out again. As a skulk, I don't really worry about dying, since I'm free and get 2-3 kills on average per life. It may not be an impressive 15 kills/life like some people get as a Fade, but I didn't spend 50 res. Once I hit 100 res, I go redeem Onos and usually end up with something like 30-45 kills/life. Whenever I die as an Onos, I almost always have the res to go Onos again.
I honestly don't think that hit-and-run is a good role for the Fade. It's more then covered by Skulks and Lerks. It isn't a general purpose fighter until 3 hives. It doesn't have any abilities geared towards base assault. It's expensive. It's only attack until 3 hives is only marginally better then a Skulk. The Fade could really use a niche, or a cost reduction.
If we all take res into account, of course my dear Monkeybonk ;-)).
Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in the 2.0 Fade. Right now, a Fade really isn't worth the 50 res. I've started avoiding the Fade almost all together, preferring to save up for the Onos or going Gorge/Lerk earlier.
My biggest problem with the Fade is that it lacks a solid purpose. All the other aliens have a function. Skulks harass, Gorges build, Lerks support, etc. Fades were a general purpose fighter, but now acid rocket is three hives and Fades don't have the range attack until you near the end. Swipe, blink and metabolize lend themselves to hit-and-run tactics, but for 50 res, you get something that's about equal to Skulk harassment. Swipe, blink, metabolize and good health/armor compared to chompeh, parasite, leap and vent access? It's not a bad comparison, but it's not 50 res good.
I don't know if I'm using blink wrong or something, but I don't have the energy to blink into a base/group, attack and blink out again. As a skulk, I don't really worry about dying, since I'm free and get 2-3 kills on average per life. It may not be an impressive 15 kills/life like some people get as a Fade, but I didn't spend 50 res. Once I hit 100 res, I go redeem Onos and usually end up with something like 30-45 kills/life. Whenever I die as an Onos, I almost always have the res to go Onos again.
I honestly don't think that hit-and-run is a good role for the Fade. It's more then covered by Skulks and Lerks. It isn't a general purpose fighter until 3 hives. It doesn't have any abilities geared towards base assault. It's expensive. It's only attack until 3 hives is only marginally better then a Skulk. The Fade could really use a niche, or a cost reduction. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, The fade isnt what use to be....
Its just a huge freaking target, its slow and the added armor and health dont help much when It takes forever to catch a backpeddling marine. (After blinking right in front of him :/ )
Then again, this is just an idea. I know next to nothing about balance, and have only tried the fade twice. Both times I think I died when I was blinking away because I ran out of Stamina. =(
In this game death comes so fast that the time it takes to turn around and use blink seems daunting to me. And it sucks when my stamina then runs out before I escape. Maybe make it cost less stamina or no?
Like I said- I could be completely wrong. =/
-JohnnySmash
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want?
Once again: WARRIOR. I'm not saying that 'Fade sucks at hit and run'. It can perform that. The point is: <b>It shouldn't need to</b>.
Link Finch said: The fade lacks a clear purpose. For 50 res, I should be getting a strong, lithe, agile fighter able to go toe to toe with marines and dance around them. Once marines get upgrades around level 2, the fade should be the skulk replacement to fight them. Instead, it can handle level 1's. That's about it. Heavy armor mows them down, as do level 3 upgrades, and more then 2 marines shooting them.
Instead, you get a weak, slow thing that can't move for CRAP, and has an attack that is quite possibly the worst in the game (Imagine if you got an HMG with 30 bullets that did 10 damage. That's the 'swipe').
Furthermore, you can't actually hit and run, because you're visible and audible when you use blink, and furthermore, cloaking is futile because your name shows up in BIG RED LETTERS for the enemy, and without cloaking you show up on the minimap.
If I want hit and run, I'll use skulks. They can quickly deploy, leap and take someone down, then leap to safety in a vent, or high on a ceiling. A fade has to pray there's a quick exit to friendly ground, or he's dead.
Fades... Frankly, You Don't Know How To Use Them In 2.0.
Stop your whining. A Fade in the right hands (such as mine) is a force to be reckoned with, and a damn sight more powerful than in 1.04. Learn to adapt to the changes. And if you can't do that, go lerk and give me my umbra cover, you n00b <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots.
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday.
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you?
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> vs <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> = gg marines
I can usually get up to 50 res in 3-5 minutes. Giving all these boosts to the fade would make an unstoppable game ender.
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey bro, thanks for outright insulting me. It sure makes me welcome your ideas. Everyone, look at this guy for who he really is!
Now try explaining everyone why they should listen to you. HF.
Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player?
Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance.
Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't think I could of said it better myself.
? They took bunny hopping away. It is basically cs movement except you cant run backwards full speed. What else do you want? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines should be able to jump for movement only, not as combat evasion. Once every 3-4 seconds. Unless you've never fought a marine as an alien. Because I know anyone that has can attest to the fact that as soon as an alien shows up, the marines hop around like idiots. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idiots dont actually hop around. Idiots are too retarded to jump around. THey just stand still for skulk food.
GG counter retort.
If you are smart, you jump around, reduce the chances of death and increase chances of him missing you. If by "jumping around like an idiot" does it, brand me an idiot too, because I´ll do it anyday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sigh* are you that freaking stupid? Do I honestly have to explain the similie for you? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey bro, thanks for outright insulting me. It sure makes me welcome your ideas. Everyone, look at this guy for who he really is!
Now try explaining everyone why they should listen to you. HF. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're very welcome. Since you don't seem to get it, I'll have to spell it out for you:
Natural-Selection was made with a gritty, sci-fi movie-esque feel. Brave marines sent to clean out a ship of aliens. Now in every movie with humans vs. aliens, aliens have the melee attacks. The humans have to keep the aliens away. And usually, when the alien gets close to the humans, that guy is DEAD. They have guns to keep them away.
Now there's another thing that happens. If the alien is really close, they run. That's right, they RUN!
They don't play hopskotch while firing their gun everywhere.
They don't skip around singing songs while firing their gun everywhere.
They don't pull a matrix and wallrun up the wall while firing their gun everywhere.
They may dodge once, and then run away.
You know how you see in old cartoons like Tom and Jerry, the women always hop on a stool when a mouse is in the room, and totally freak? That's what the marines are like when a skulk is in. They start jumping around, off of each other, etc.
If a dog attacks someone, and they have a gun, what do they do? It runs at them, and they'll dodge to the side. Probably run, or shoot it. But they aren't going to KEEP DODGING IT. Once you dodge a bull, a dog, a skulk, anything, you aren't going to be in a position to keep doing it!
Bunny hopping is an exploit that allows you to move in any direction as fast and you could by running forward, because you continue hopping and retain the speed while you rotate around. Flayra slowed it down so that you can't do that, so you get floor fricition before you can hop again.
But I want you to show me a movie, a book, a video documentary, ANYTHING, of people carrying weapons and high-tech armor hopping around like 8 year old school girls.
IT DOESN'T HAPPEN, AND IT ESPECIALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN IN MOVIES.
Okay, I'll try hit and run tactics with a TEAM! That'll be INCREDIBLY succesful! We'll all blink in, trip over each other and swipe at each other, get shot by the marines, and probably kill them, and if we don't then we'll try to blink away and get stuck on one another!
And how does being at the top of the killboard signify I'm not a team player? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cuz you boast.
The major failure in a player is boasting. It only brings arrogance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahha, so if I said: "I'm the worst play ever. I never get to the top of the killboard. I truely suck. Nerf shotguns" are you going to listen to me? No, it's QUITE OBVIOUS that I'm constantly and incessantly killed by marines, and that's why I'm complaining. I manage with a fade, but it incredibly underperforms.\\
Now since neither of you seem to have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to add, you're both excused from the topic. Any further off-topic posts will be reported to a moderator.