As for people that say the 2.0 fade is better then the 1.04 fade, you're completely wrong.
1) Blink isn't instant. This means turrets and marines can and WILL shoot you while blinking. Isn't that great? Thanks Flayra!
2) Blink is STILL a pain in the **** to use. Personally I think blink should go THROUGH structures and players, so you can get around easier. The best way to kill a fade is simply surround him, since he'll waste every drop of stamina just trying to blink out.
3) They lost not 1, but 2 weapons, and got this dippy 'metabolize'. 'scuse me, why would I want something that is 2 hives, drains lots of stamina, makes a lot of noise, and still doesn't really heal me?
<!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually swipes as fast as bite... eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me.
fade != tank anymore, tru, so you play hit and run now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, I'll keep that in mind when I'm in the whole 12 places in NS maps that have high vaulted ceilings.
'tard.
As for this 'hit and run' bull s**t, WHY. I paid 50 F***ing RES for this thing, and it can't even take on more then 2 level 1 marines without getting killed? Ever heard of motion tracking? It makes hit and run pointless. The aliens have *NO* Say it with me now <b><i>NO</b></i> mid ground fighter. It's either cannon fodder skulks, cannon fodder and waste of res fade, or base smasher onos. THERE IS NO SOLDIER TYPE ALIEN. If I wanted to do hit and run, guess what? Skulks are probably 10x better at it then a fade will EVER be.
the main problem with fade seems to be as most teams go with movement first, this leaves the fade lacking in the armour department, if he runs into a group of 2+ marines he would have to be very quick to hit them or would get shot to bits, however once hive 2 and the DC's come then the fade becomes much more of a threat to the marines than just an annoyance.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mythr1l+Aug 11 2003, 12:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mythr1l @ Aug 11 2003, 12:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the main problem with fade seems to be as most teams go with movement first, this leaves the fade lacking in the armour department, if he runs into a group of 2+ marines he would have to be very quick to hit them or would get shot to bits, however once hive 2 and the DC's come then the fade becomes much more of a threat to the marines than just an annoyance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The main problem with fades is that they got shafted every way:
1) They're weak as paper.
2) They're slower then sin.
3) Their attacks blow.
4) Their abilities drain stamina like no-ones business.
5) They have no 'niche'. Skulks already fill the ambush hit-and-run niche, why the HELL do we need two?
6) They're EASILLY countered. So easy it's not even funny. Just get 1 marine with a shotgun, motion tracking, and he can easilly waste a fade before a fade can waste him.
Monkeybonk, you sure **** and moan a lot. Try tuning down the rabid foaming mouth ire.
We have to ask ourselves something here. If some people are really good with the new Fade, and some people aren't good with the new Fade, where is the problem? Does the Fade need to be changed, or do you just basically suck at using the new Fade?
<!--QuoteBegin--TickTock+Aug 11 2003, 12:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TickTock @ Aug 11 2003, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Monkeybonk, you sure **** and moan a lot. Try tuning down the rabid foaming mouth ire.
We have to ask ourselves something here. If some people are really good with the new Fade, and some people aren't good with the new Fade, where is the problem? Does the Fade need to be changed, or do you just basically suck at using the new Fade? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No one's making you read my posts. I'm simply **** that Flayra seems to justify 50 res for a slightly stronger, and just as useless skulk. Why aren't fades all free at 2 hives then? It's the exact same thing as getting a skulk with regeneration (Except that... oh yeah, regen doesn't drain stamina, and it's active all the time)
The new 'blink' doesn't 'blink' at all. You float around, and 50% of the time, marines are going to hear you and be prepared, and there's also a very high chance that, when blinking up to someone, you're going to miss them and slide past them so you're in FRONT. The old blink had no room for error like that. You could literally blink right in front of a marine, attack him, and blink away. New blink drains all your stamina, is incredibly inaccurate, and is pretty silly anyway (Completely visible when using it?)
And finally: As for the 'fades are deadly in right hands', guess what? NS seems to have been designed with clan play in mind, which is why it truely sucks in pub games. Desiging a game for clan play is one of the dumbest things you can do, and every game I've been involved with that is developing (Tribes: Vengeance) it's been decided that balancing on the clan level is just shooting yourself in the foot. Fades SHOULD be scary and deadly. Right now they're definately NOT scary, and they're not very deadly at all.
If you had 2 groups of players vs. marines, one group playing skulks, the other fades, skulks will always be ahead of the fades.
Well, I will simply flat out agree that fades should NOT be visible when blinking. Otherwise it stops being a blink, and more like a really fast "hovar".
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 11 2003, 12:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 11 2003, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for people that say the 2.0 fade is better then the 1.04 fade, you're completely wrong.
1) Blink isn't instant. This means turrets and marines can and WILL shoot you while blinking. Isn't that great? Thanks Flayra!
2) Blink is STILL a pain in the **** to use. Personally I think blink should go THROUGH structures and players, so you can get around easier. The best way to kill a fade is simply surround him, since he'll waste every drop of stamina just trying to blink out.
3) They lost not 1, but 2 weapons, and got this dippy 'metabolize'. 'scuse me, why would I want something that is 2 hives, drains lots of stamina, makes a lot of noise, and still doesn't really heal me? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dislike that about you Bonk Its either your right and everyone is worng or Everyone doesn't know how to do something and you do! Give it a rest, stoping being such a smart **** with your "You don't have a brain.." "Your wrong, you don't know.." comments and just post in a non offencive way! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the Fade, its better than 1.04, if ppl can't learn to use it, then they wont enjoy it! The new blink allows much more fredom of movement, matabolize is AWESOME, allows for hit and run Melee which is exactly what the fade is used for now! If you can't control the Fade and don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean that it sucks, it means you need to get batter at using it!
Fades are one of the best to use, ppl don't use them offten enought to enjoy the Power you have!
Of course a SG will own a fade, a SG owns everything!
<!--QuoteBegin--Never+Aug 11 2003, 03:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Never @ Aug 11 2003, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i have to agree that Fades seem underappreciated. just recently there was a thread debating their effectivenss. in it, someone mentioned how blink is meant to be used. id only 2.0 Faded once and wasnt too impressed. so i tried out the new system. and i must say, i am very pleased with the results.
i found i could get around as fast if not faster than some skulks leaping all over the place. its not easy, but when you get used to it, its a lot of fun too.
the one thing Fades cant do is take down a party of 4,5,6+ marines who can shoot. hell, two at once when concentrating can down a Fade in seconds. just means you have to work a little harder to keep your 50 res investment safe.
seems to me the chain of command is as follows:
skulks - foot soldiers gorge - builder(duh) lerk - air support/protective unit fade - ground support/severe harrassment onos - heavy weaponry
sound about right? *shrug* i could be wrong. all i know is, Fades are just as fun now if not more so now that ive fleshed out blink a little more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Listen To him ppl..he knows wut hes talking about
p.s Wut kind of upgrades do u think are best for the fade...i have two preferences
a)Regen, cloaking, adren
b)Regen, cloaking, silence
p.s.s I think alot of u are whining that the fade sucks blah blah because u havent tried it enouph...I can remember when alot of u vets were whining that theres no more skill involved in ns and its so "newby" friendly now...well try the fade out and yull c it takes alot of skill and concentration to be an effective fade..SO PLZ..give the fade a chance and yull c when ppl start getting good with them then therel be grooups of fades eating your brain for breakfast <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm a flipping awful fade, and I'm still worth 2-3 light marines or at least one shotgunner on most pubs (some shotgunners would smoke me without any real effort).
<i>Good</i> fades are worth 4-6 light marines depending upon skill, and a good fade will smoke a good shotgunner 1 v 1, guaranteed. In fact, a good fade can blink into a bunch of marines, assassinate the guy with the shotgun, and blink out. A little teamwork and the skulks clean up.
Metabolize means a fade, an evolution which is aquired <i>extremely</i> early, can dismantle marine outposts himself, given 120 seconds alone with them. Additionally, metabolize combined with gorge healing means a fade can be nearly constantly in an important fray, almost always at full health.
The inital post's statement that all he used in 1.04 was nubrocket speaks <i>volumes</i>, in my opinion. A singe fade using his claws in 1.04, given umbra support, could destroy a squad of HA.
The new blink, combined with adrenaline, can be incredibly powerful. I've seen good fades - someone from cri or ue, I believe - blink between every swipe, <i>hitting</i> with every swipe. You may not be good at it, and frankly neither am I. But please don't conclude that just because you're bad, it <i>must</i> be because of the game.
Edit: my standard upgrades for fade are adrenaline (yay infinite blink), cara, and SOF. With metabolize, why bother with regen?
Go back to CS if you like range attack, Fades own. That is all class. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif'><!--endemo-->
fade != tank anymore, tru, so you play hit and run now <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't regenerate while metabolizing, gg. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
What.. I am pritty sure you can! Maybe I am wrong, but I think it does work. I rememebr standing next to a DC, had regen and was using Mata and life was just flying back!
Im sure in the NS manual (well in 1.0x still dunno if there is a 2.0 one out yet <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ) with the descriptions of all the stuff on how they got there names and what they did if they were real things. well im sure with the fade it said it could kind of teleport through walls and stuff and surprise marines, u could kind of do this in 1.0x apart from u got stuck in it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> but the idea seemed to have been droped. well even so now u get seen when u blink at least on 1.0x u could blink get behind them and start attacking and they didnt know for a sec or 2 add that with the new silence. u could prob take a few HA solo. although the new blink is easier to use i just dont get how they are alowed to see u, i mean why.
The blinking thtough walls thing was dropped fairly early, because it was impossibe to get working well. It was apparently even bugier than the 1.0x version. I remember the Playtesters saying you ended up in the readyroom and stuff.
A: Not in the least. I can average 4 marines with a skulk, and I get much better choice of weapons, I'm harder to hit, and I get better manuverability. The fade suffers in all aspects, gets no unique choice of weaponry or tactics (Leap, blink, they're both equally effective, except leap does damage!)
3) Are hit and run attacks effective?
A: To a point, yes, until the marines get motion tracking. At that point, you're useless, and any schmuck with a shotgun can take you down in 2 shots. Furthermore, hit and run attacks means you kill ONE marine and run. One marine. Keep in mind that the ONOS DEVOUR kills 1 marine and he runs. Meanwhile, they're spawning like they're on an assembly line back at base.
4) Do Fades fit a unique class?
A: NOT IN THE LEAST. Fades are nothing but tired, cliche carbon copies of skulks. Lerks have their own catagory, onos is for heavy weapons, skulks and fades are the same damn thing, one can take more damage, but suffers in ever other regard instead. Why are fades shuffled into this stupid little 'ambush' class? Did Flayra run out of ideas? THE ALIENS NEED A FIGHTER. Something that can take on groups of level 1 or 2 marines and win. A fade vs. 2 half-way decent level 0 marines will be dead before he closes.
I don't care how often you people spew the same rhetoric that 'Fades are for hit and run!' That's not the point! The point is, hit and run or not, fades are both obsolete, boring, cliche, and ultimately pointless when compared to the other aliens. I hated acid-spam in 1.04, and the removal of acid rocket was a good thing. However, they should've given swipe MUCH more damage, and given the fade MUCH better manuverability. Instead, it still sucks at both.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dislike that about you Bonk Its either your right and everyone is worng or Everyone doesn't know how to do something and you do! Give it a rest, stoping being such a smart **** with your "You don't have a brain.." "Your wrong, you don't know.." comments and just post in a non offencive way!
As for the Fade, its better than 1.04, if ppl can't learn to use it, then they wont enjoy it! The new blink allows much more fredom of movement, matabolize is AWESOME, allows for hit and run Melee which is exactly what the fade is used for now! If you can't control the Fade and don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean that it sucks, it means you need to get batter at using it!
Fades are one of the best to use, ppl don't use them offten enought to enjoy the Power you have!
Of course a SG will own a fade, a SG owns everything!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST MAKING **** UP</b>
I don't care if you dislike that about me, it's true.
IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BE BETTER THEN 1.04, WHEN IT DID NOT GET A SINGLE BEEF, AND WAS NERFED IN NEARLY EVERY CAPACITY.
Take the 1.04 fade and compare it to the 2.0 fade.
They stripped 1 of his weapons.
They made his other weapon a hive 3, so it's pretty much useless most of the game.
They watered down this hive 3 weapon so it's even weaker then comparative hive 3 weapons (50 damage and drains 1/5th of my stamina? Whoopy!)
They increased the cost of the fade.
They nerfed blinking so it's not even a 'blink' it's just 'run around real fast.' Sure it's good to not get stuck (only happend to me once), but now it truely sucks as a 'blink'. It's inaccurate, hard to use, and a total drain on stamina.
They gave it some dumb 'metabolize'. So I can noisly, slowly, and inefficiently heal damage? I'd rather blink away to a hive: It'd take half the time.
The fade has been nerfed to uselessness. If you think it's better then 1.04 then you're either 1) Lying through your teeth, or 2) Never played 1.04.
so the blinkin through walls idea was just droped totaly and they gave up on it.
It should be set so u go into a kind of noclip mode. I have a kind of idea for it but i cant be arsed to go into it as I doupt its gonner happen. plus i cant be arsed to type it.
I have to agree on errrrr Monkeybonk abit, fade was better in 1.04, u could do surprise attacks alot better to some extent.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViolenceJack+Aug 11 2003, 03:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViolenceJack @ Aug 11 2003, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so the blinkin through walls idea was just droped totaly and they gave up on it.
It should be set so u go into a kind of noclip mode. I have a kind of idea for it but i cant be arsed to go into it as I doupt its gonner happen. plus i cant be arsed to type it.
I have to agree on errrrr Monkeybonk abit, fade was better in 1.04, u could do surprise attacks alot better to some extent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Plus you had RANGED attacks, meaning that you could fight higher upgrade marines and still live. Instead, you now have to fight high upgrade marines up close, just like you did level 0 marines... it's not really fair if you ask me.
In 1.04 there were two types of fade players: Melee and rocket spam.
Melee fade players love the new fade. Blink makes life so wonderful for them, and they no longer really need celerity so they can get adrenaline basically for free. Meta is an added bonus. 2.0 fade is generally better at this, albeit marginally, than the 1.04 fade. A 2.0 1-hive fade is far better than a 1.04 1-hive fade because blink is a first hive ability now, but that is rather a moot point.
The acid spam fade is no longer needed. It used to be that the acid rocket was the key way of removing entrenched marines. Lerks can unentrench marines, and gorges unentrench structures. Throw a few melee fighters in the mix to protect them, and you have quite a war machine.
You have to stay alive for a LONG time for a fade to pay for itself at 50 res. Unlike an onos, which pays for itself mostly by eating HA and destroying buildings, a fade is best used against light armor marines. Kill quickly and go heal, because you can only take so many bullets. Fortunately, a fade is capable of staying alive for a long time, so the res cost isn't too far off. Still, a drop of a few res might be in order (like 5).
<!--QuoteBegin--taboofires+Aug 11 2003, 03:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (taboofires @ Aug 11 2003, 03:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In 1.04 there were two types of fade players: Melee and rocket spam.
Melee fade players love the new fade. Blink makes life so wonderful for them, and they no longer really need celerity so they can get adrenaline basically for free. Meta is an added bonus. 2.0 fade is generally better at this, albeit marginally, than the 1.04 fade. A 2.0 1-hive fade is far better than a 1.04 1-hive fade because blink is a first hive ability now, but that is rather a moot point.
The acid spam fade is no longer needed. It used to be that the acid rocket was the key way of removing entrenched marines. Lerks can unentrench marines, and gorges unentrench structures. Throw a few melee fighters in the mix to protect them, and you have quite a war machine.
You have to stay alive for a LONG time for a fade to pay for itself at 50 res. Unlike an onos, which pays for itself mostly by eating HA and destroying buildings, a fade is best used against light armor marines. Kill quickly and go heal, because you can only take so many bullets. Fortunately, a fade is capable of staying alive for a long time, so the res cost isn't too far off. Still, a drop of a few res might be in order (like 5). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Problem:
1) Fades have atrocious footspeed, and manuvering. Why is this a problem? They need to close with their target, and in most cases, the marine can just hop around and survive against the fade, and sometimes kill him with a shotgun.
Solution? Use blink and celerity.
Problem:
2) Blink is so unrefined and archaeic you'll usually, instead of blinking up to a target, blink PAST him.
Solution? 1.04 blink was 1000x better as a 'blink' ability. Put the 1.04 blink back in as a 5th weapon for fades.
Problem:
3) Fades have the most atrocious and inefficient use of stamina. Every ability drains stamina like no ones business.
Solution? Use adrenaline.
Problem:
4) Fades make so damn much noise you can hear them from far away. Blink up to players? They'll hear you coming. There's NOTHING AT ALL that is stealthy about fades. Silence is practically a must.
Solution? Use silence.
No other alien sucks SO BAD in every capacity that is needs to choose from 3 different upgrades of the same type.
I can use silence and be a stealthy assassin, but then I'm going to blink, run out of stamina, get 2 worthless swipes in as the marines run away from me BACKWARDS, and try to blink out and die trying.
I can use celerity and catch up with the marines, but they'll hear me coming a mile away, and hear me use blink, and I'll still run out of adreneline constantly.
I can use adreneline and get better use out of blink, but they'll hear me constantly, blinking in and out, and they can easilly run from me.
<!--QuoteBegin--Soylent green+Aug 11 2003, 12:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Aug 11 2003, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Onos that only stomp and devour do nothing but **** off the marines when they have no costly weapons or HA/JP. Fades, gorges and lerks are in my experience the big game enders. Everyone going onos and bugging the marines with devour under a continous grenade/turret spam does not end the game. I does however annoy people, alot... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, didnt read any farther than this, if this is the type of comment that can be expected.
Contrary to your belief, onos are insane game enders. I believe their primary attack does what, 110 damage? That will down pretty much any structure in no time. Even Comm chairs dont last forever. ALSO, stomp/devour onoses DO end the game by denying marines a chance to keep a squad fully outfitted. So...basically your arguement holds no weight. Go poo yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 11 2003, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 11 2003, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually swipes as fast as bite... eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> syff noob. The same was more true in 1.0x, so how is this a problem?
<!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Aug 11 2003, 04:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Aug 11 2003, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 11 2003, 06:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 11 2003, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Aug 11 2003, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> actually swipes as fast as bite... eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> syff noob. The same was more true in 1.0x, so how is this a problem? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dunno, one's free and one costs 50 resources, how COULD that be a problem. Also, fades lost their two ranged attacks until endgame, so they're forced into melee, shouldn't they actually *GASP* be GOOD at that rather, then just an easier to hit, slower moving skulk?
I really like the new fade also. Their old setup turned them into game over destruction machines, and that when was few people used blink with any effectiveness. A fade who could blink well in 1.x would decimate marine teams relatively effortlessly, and has acid rockets to destroy JPers.
The new one is a heavy hitter with enough HP and armor to harass turret farms, take on tier 2 marines 1 or 2 at a time, and combines both speed and power. At 3 hives, acid rockets make this arguably one of the best aliens available.
New fade is easily my favorite alien, way moreso than Onos.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Remain friendly and civil at all times. Be helpful when possible. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
1) Blink isn't instant. This means turrets and marines can and WILL shoot you while blinking. Isn't that great? Thanks Flayra!
2) Blink is STILL a pain in the **** to use. Personally I think blink should go THROUGH structures and players, so you can get around easier. The best way to kill a fade is simply surround him, since he'll waste every drop of stamina just trying to blink out.
3) They lost not 1, but 2 weapons, and got this dippy 'metabolize'. 'scuse me, why would I want something that is 2 hives, drains lots of stamina, makes a lot of noise, and still doesn't really heal me?
meta rox with regen
fade != tank anymore, tru, so you play hit and run now
eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me.
meta rox with regen
fade != tank anymore, tru, so you play hit and run now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, I'll keep that in mind when I'm in the whole 12 places in NS maps that have high vaulted ceilings.
'tard.
As for this 'hit and run' bull s**t, WHY. I paid 50 F***ing RES for this thing, and it can't even take on more then 2 level 1 marines without getting killed? Ever heard of motion tracking? It makes hit and run pointless. The aliens have *NO* Say it with me now <b><i>NO</b></i> mid ground fighter. It's either cannon fodder skulks, cannon fodder and waste of res fade, or base smasher onos. THERE IS NO SOLDIER TYPE ALIEN. If I wanted to do hit and run, guess what? Skulks are probably 10x better at it then a fade will EVER be.
The main problem with fades is that they got shafted every way:
1) They're weak as paper.
2) They're slower then sin.
3) Their attacks blow.
4) Their abilities drain stamina like no-ones business.
5) They have no 'niche'. Skulks already fill the ambush hit-and-run niche, why the HELL do we need two?
6) They're EASILLY countered. So easy it's not even funny. Just get 1 marine with a shotgun, motion tracking, and he can easilly waste a fade before a fade can waste him.
We have to ask ourselves something here. If some people are really good with the new Fade, and some people aren't good with the new Fade, where is the problem? Does the Fade need to be changed, or do you just basically suck at using the new Fade?
We have to ask ourselves something here. If some people are really good with the new Fade, and some people aren't good with the new Fade, where is the problem? Does the Fade need to be changed, or do you just basically suck at using the new Fade? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one's making you read my posts. I'm simply **** that Flayra seems to justify 50 res for a slightly stronger, and just as useless skulk. Why aren't fades all free at 2 hives then? It's the exact same thing as getting a skulk with regeneration (Except that... oh yeah, regen doesn't drain stamina, and it's active all the time)
The new 'blink' doesn't 'blink' at all. You float around, and 50% of the time, marines are going to hear you and be prepared, and there's also a very high chance that, when blinking up to someone, you're going to miss them and slide past them so you're in FRONT. The old blink had no room for error like that. You could literally blink right in front of a marine, attack him, and blink away. New blink drains all your stamina, is incredibly inaccurate, and is pretty silly anyway (Completely visible when using it?)
And finally: As for the 'fades are deadly in right hands', guess what? NS seems to have been designed with clan play in mind, which is why it truely sucks in pub games. Desiging a game for clan play is one of the dumbest things you can do, and every game I've been involved with that is developing (Tribes: Vengeance) it's been decided that balancing on the clan level is just shooting yourself in the foot. Fades SHOULD be scary and deadly. Right now they're definately NOT scary, and they're not very deadly at all.
If you had 2 groups of players vs. marines, one group playing skulks, the other fades, skulks will always be ahead of the fades.
1) Blink isn't instant. This means turrets and marines can and WILL shoot you while blinking. Isn't that great? Thanks Flayra!
2) Blink is STILL a pain in the **** to use. Personally I think blink should go THROUGH structures and players, so you can get around easier. The best way to kill a fade is simply surround him, since he'll waste every drop of stamina just trying to blink out.
3) They lost not 1, but 2 weapons, and got this dippy 'metabolize'. 'scuse me, why would I want something that is 2 hives, drains lots of stamina, makes a lot of noise, and still doesn't really heal me? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dislike that about you Bonk
Its either your right and everyone is worng or Everyone doesn't know how to do something and you do!
Give it a rest, stoping being such a smart **** with your "You don't have a brain.." "Your wrong, you don't know.." comments and just post in a non offencive way! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for the Fade, its better than 1.04, if ppl can't learn to use it, then they wont enjoy it!
The new blink allows much more fredom of movement, matabolize is AWESOME, allows for hit and run Melee which is exactly what the fade is used for now! If you can't control the Fade and don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean that it sucks, it means you need to get batter at using it!
Fades are one of the best to use, ppl don't use them offten enought to enjoy the Power you have!
Of course a SG will own a fade, a SG owns everything!
i found i could get around as fast if not faster than some skulks leaping all over the place. its not easy, but when you get used to it, its a lot of fun too.
the one thing Fades cant do is take down a party of 4,5,6+ marines who can shoot. hell, two at once when concentrating can down a Fade in seconds. just means you have to work a little harder to keep your 50 res investment safe.
seems to me the chain of command is as follows:
skulks - foot soldiers
gorge - builder(duh)
lerk - air support/protective unit
fade - ground support/severe harrassment
onos - heavy weaponry
sound about right? *shrug* i could be wrong. all i know is, Fades are just as fun now if not more so now that ive fleshed out blink a little more. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Listen To him ppl..he knows wut hes talking about
p.s
Wut kind of upgrades do u think are best for the fade...i have two preferences
a)Regen, cloaking, adren
b)Regen, cloaking, silence
p.s.s
I think alot of u are whining that the fade sucks blah blah because u havent tried it enouph...I can remember when alot of u vets were whining that theres no more skill involved in ns and its so "newby" friendly now...well try the fade out and yull c it takes alot of skill and concentration to be an effective fade..SO PLZ..give the fade a chance and yull c when ppl start getting good with them then therel be grooups of fades eating your brain for breakfast <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<i>Good</i> fades are worth 4-6 light marines depending upon skill, and a good fade will smoke a good shotgunner 1 v 1, guaranteed. In fact, a good fade can blink into a bunch of marines, assassinate the guy with the shotgun, and blink out. A little teamwork and the skulks clean up.
Metabolize means a fade, an evolution which is aquired <i>extremely</i> early, can dismantle marine outposts himself, given 120 seconds alone with them. Additionally, metabolize combined with gorge healing means a fade can be nearly constantly in an important fray, almost always at full health.
The inital post's statement that all he used in 1.04 was nubrocket speaks <i>volumes</i>, in my opinion. A singe fade using his claws in 1.04, given umbra support, could destroy a squad of HA.
The new blink, combined with adrenaline, can be incredibly powerful. I've seen good fades - someone from cri or ue, I believe - blink between every swipe, <i>hitting</i> with every swipe. You may not be good at it, and frankly neither am I. But please don't conclude that just because you're bad, it <i>must</i> be because of the game.
Edit: my standard upgrades for fade are adrenaline (yay infinite blink), cara, and SOF. With metabolize, why bother with regen?
meta rox with regen
fade != tank anymore, tru, so you play hit and run now <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't regenerate while metabolizing, gg. <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
Maybe I am wrong, but I think it does work.
I rememebr standing next to a DC, had regen and was using Mata and life was just flying back!
1) Is the fade good at what it does?
A: Yes it is. It's good for hit and run attacks.
2) Is it worth 50 resouces?
A: Not in the least. I can average 4 marines with a skulk, and I get much better choice of weapons, I'm harder to hit, and I get better manuverability. The fade suffers in all aspects, gets no unique choice of weaponry or tactics (Leap, blink, they're both equally effective, except leap does damage!)
3) Are hit and run attacks effective?
A: To a point, yes, until the marines get motion tracking. At that point, you're useless, and any schmuck with a shotgun can take you down in 2 shots. Furthermore, hit and run attacks means you kill ONE marine and run. One marine. Keep in mind that the ONOS DEVOUR kills 1 marine and he runs. Meanwhile, they're spawning like they're on an assembly line back at base.
4) Do Fades fit a unique class?
A: NOT IN THE LEAST. Fades are nothing but tired, cliche carbon copies of skulks. Lerks have their own catagory, onos is for heavy weapons, skulks and fades are the same damn thing, one can take more damage, but suffers in ever other regard instead. Why are fades shuffled into this stupid little 'ambush' class? Did Flayra run out of ideas? THE ALIENS NEED A FIGHTER. Something that can take on groups of level 1 or 2 marines and win. A fade vs. 2 half-way decent level 0 marines will be dead before he closes.
I don't care how often you people spew the same rhetoric that 'Fades are for hit and run!' That's not the point! The point is, hit and run or not, fades are both obsolete, boring, cliche, and ultimately pointless when compared to the other aliens. I hated acid-spam in 1.04, and the removal of acid rocket was a good thing. However, they should've given swipe MUCH more damage, and given the fade MUCH better manuverability. Instead, it still sucks at both.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I dislike that about you Bonk
Its either your right and everyone is worng or Everyone doesn't know how to do something and you do!
Give it a rest, stoping being such a smart **** with your "You don't have a brain.." "Your wrong, you don't know.." comments and just post in a non offencive way!
As for the Fade, its better than 1.04, if ppl can't learn to use it, then they wont enjoy it!
The new blink allows much more fredom of movement, matabolize is AWESOME, allows for hit and run Melee which is exactly what the fade is used for now! If you can't control the Fade and don't enjoy it, that doesn't mean that it sucks, it means you need to get batter at using it!
Fades are one of the best to use, ppl don't use them offten enought to enjoy the Power you have!
Of course a SG will own a fade, a SG owns everything!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>YOU PEOPLE ARE JUST MAKING **** UP</b>
I don't care if you dislike that about me, it's true.
IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BE BETTER THEN 1.04, WHEN IT DID NOT GET A SINGLE BEEF, AND WAS NERFED IN NEARLY EVERY CAPACITY.
Take the 1.04 fade and compare it to the 2.0 fade.
They stripped 1 of his weapons.
They made his other weapon a hive 3, so it's pretty much useless most of the game.
They watered down this hive 3 weapon so it's even weaker then comparative hive 3 weapons (50 damage and drains 1/5th of my stamina? Whoopy!)
They increased the cost of the fade.
They nerfed blinking so it's not even a 'blink' it's just 'run around real fast.' Sure it's good to not get stuck (only happend to me once), but now it truely sucks as a 'blink'. It's inaccurate, hard to use, and a total drain on stamina.
They gave it some dumb 'metabolize'. So I can noisly, slowly, and inefficiently heal damage? I'd rather blink away to a hive: It'd take half the time.
The fade has been nerfed to uselessness. If you think it's better then 1.04 then you're either 1) Lying through your teeth, or 2) Never played 1.04.
So tell me: WHAT IS BETTER ABOUT 2.0 FADE.
It should be set so u go into a kind of noclip mode. I have a kind of idea for it but i cant be arsed to go into it as I doupt its gonner happen. plus i cant be arsed to type it.
I have to agree on errrrr Monkeybonk abit, fade was better in 1.04, u could do surprise attacks alot better to some extent.
It should be set so u go into a kind of noclip mode. I have a kind of idea for it but i cant be arsed to go into it as I doupt its gonner happen. plus i cant be arsed to type it.
I have to agree on errrrr Monkeybonk abit, fade was better in 1.04, u could do surprise attacks alot better to some extent. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plus you had RANGED attacks, meaning that you could fight higher upgrade marines and still live. Instead, you now have to fight high upgrade marines up close, just like you did level 0 marines... it's not really fair if you ask me.
Melee fade players love the new fade. Blink makes life so wonderful for them, and they no longer really need celerity so they can get adrenaline basically for free. Meta is an added bonus. 2.0 fade is generally better at this, albeit marginally, than the 1.04 fade. A 2.0 1-hive fade is far better than a 1.04 1-hive fade because blink is a first hive ability now, but that is rather a moot point.
The acid spam fade is no longer needed. It used to be that the acid rocket was the key way of removing entrenched marines. Lerks can unentrench marines, and gorges unentrench structures. Throw a few melee fighters in the mix to protect them, and you have quite a war machine.
You have to stay alive for a LONG time for a fade to pay for itself at 50 res. Unlike an onos, which pays for itself mostly by eating HA and destroying buildings, a fade is best used against light armor marines. Kill quickly and go heal, because you can only take so many bullets. Fortunately, a fade is capable of staying alive for a long time, so the res cost isn't too far off. Still, a drop of a few res might be in order (like 5).
Melee fade players love the new fade. Blink makes life so wonderful for them, and they no longer really need celerity so they can get adrenaline basically for free. Meta is an added bonus. 2.0 fade is generally better at this, albeit marginally, than the 1.04 fade. A 2.0 1-hive fade is far better than a 1.04 1-hive fade because blink is a first hive ability now, but that is rather a moot point.
The acid spam fade is no longer needed. It used to be that the acid rocket was the key way of removing entrenched marines. Lerks can unentrench marines, and gorges unentrench structures. Throw a few melee fighters in the mix to protect them, and you have quite a war machine.
You have to stay alive for a LONG time for a fade to pay for itself at 50 res. Unlike an onos, which pays for itself mostly by eating HA and destroying buildings, a fade is best used against light armor marines. Kill quickly and go heal, because you can only take so many bullets. Fortunately, a fade is capable of staying alive for a long time, so the res cost isn't too far off. Still, a drop of a few res might be in order (like 5). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem:
1) Fades have atrocious footspeed, and manuvering. Why is this a problem? They need to close with their target, and in most cases, the marine can just hop around and survive against the fade, and sometimes kill him with a shotgun.
Solution? Use blink and celerity.
Problem:
2) Blink is so unrefined and archaeic you'll usually, instead of blinking up to a target, blink PAST him.
Solution? 1.04 blink was 1000x better as a 'blink' ability. Put the 1.04 blink back in as a 5th weapon for fades.
Problem:
3) Fades have the most atrocious and inefficient use of stamina. Every ability drains stamina like no ones business.
Solution? Use adrenaline.
Problem:
4) Fades make so damn much noise you can hear them from far away. Blink up to players? They'll hear you coming. There's NOTHING AT ALL that is stealthy about fades. Silence is practically a must.
Solution? Use silence.
No other alien sucks SO BAD in every capacity that is needs to choose from 3 different upgrades of the same type.
I can use silence and be a stealthy assassin, but then I'm going to blink, run out of stamina, get 2 worthless swipes in as the marines run away from me BACKWARDS, and try to blink out and die trying.
I can use celerity and catch up with the marines, but they'll hear me coming a mile away, and hear me use blink, and I'll still run out of adreneline constantly.
I can use adreneline and get better use out of blink, but they'll hear me constantly, blinking in and out, and they can easilly run from me.
I'm sorry, didnt read any farther than this, if this is the type of comment that can be expected.
Contrary to your belief, onos are insane game enders. I believe their primary attack does what, 110 damage? That will down pretty much any structure in no time. Even Comm chairs dont last forever. ALSO, stomp/devour onoses DO end the game by denying marines a chance to keep a squad fully outfitted. So...basically your arguement holds no weight. Go poo yourself.
eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
syff noob.
The same was more true in 1.0x, so how is this a problem?
eeedit: using a 1.04 biting style. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then it drains more stamina. Either way, the skulk can do more damage then the fade in a full stamina bar. Pretty crap if you ask me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
syff noob.
The same was more true in 1.0x, so how is this a problem? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno, one's free and one costs 50 resources, how COULD that be a problem. Also, fades lost their two ranged attacks until endgame, so they're forced into melee, shouldn't they actually *GASP* be GOOD at that rather, then just an easier to hit, slower moving skulk?
The new one is a heavy hitter with enough HP and armor to harass turret farms, take on tier 2 marines 1 or 2 at a time, and combines both speed and power. At 3 hives, acid rockets make this arguably one of the best aliens available.
New fade is easily my favorite alien, way moreso than Onos.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
read the rules please