Actually, to throw a real monkey wrench in the "that's my project" "No it's my project" debate, remaking nancy appears to have been first discussed (though not seriously) in
where the first real serious discussion that I could find (including the possibility of forming a group) occured. So given this, if it's anyone's "personal project" it's Ollj's.
Now, having worked to get both sides in this "debate" out to lynch me, let me try to call a ceasefire around here by pointing out that Ozbirdboy and Lazer have two entirely different intents. Ozbirdboy's stated intent is to finally generate and distribute a full map (a modified ns_nancy, with his own ideas and touches). Lazer's stated intent is to "recover" the source for DevilDog (a near-flawless copy of ns_nancy). Between these two, nobody hijacked anybody's project. They are two different projects - they just happen to have similar aspects.
Now can we all get along and either help Lazer or at least stop trying to drag him down? (i.e. drop the moot argument about who's project it is, and cease comments about it being a waste of time/opportunity)
i've got no problem if someone wants to work by themselves on the map as long as they do a good job and from what i see Lazer you are doing a great job. and i like how people are paying so much attention to detail. i don't think we need the original authors permission as long as we give credits. anyway i'm sure he will be so pleased. and please can you keep 2 versions of the map, one that is true to the original and one that is modified like the maps in 2.0. that goes to all the mapmakers.
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Aug 21 2003, 06:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Aug 21 2003, 06:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i don't think we need the original authors permission as long as we give credits. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Has anyone even bothered to look at the Nancy read me or search the forums for anything he may have said on the matter and see Devil Dogs take on that...if there is no mention of permissions, then he probably doesnt care...if he says "noone may use this map as a base for thier own work" then you are only adding insult to injury.
But I must say Lazer found the best way to go about it, recreating a BSP <i>for the origional author</i> with no plans for a public release...A far greater idea than any of the other 500 "nancy recreation" threads. If worse comes to worse, DD doesnt respond and we learn to use "unstuck" on servers that run the origional Nancy. Best case scenario, DD appreciates your efforts and either does the needed updates himself or hands it over to Lazer...
I hope you've decompiled the original ns_nancy to get the proportions right. Off course, decompilings **** up the map greatly, but you'll still have the layout done right with the right sizes (More or less) and you'll get all the right entities as well (including their location)
Decompilation doesnt work at all with nancy. I've tried with several different docompilation programs to no avail.
By the way, if anyone knows where I can obtain the nancy.wad file, it would be a great help in getting started on those hallways <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Don't see any reason decompilers wouldn't work. I'm still having some problems processing some of the geometry, but I assume that's bugs in my code and not something weird in the map file...
[edit -- corrected] Ahem... whoops, that was bast. Actually looking at *nancy* this time, there are nine included textures.
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Aug 21 2003, 01:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Aug 21 2003, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Aug 21 2003, 06:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Aug 21 2003, 06:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i don't think we need the original authors permission as long as we give credits. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Has anyone even bothered to look at the Nancy read me or search the forums for anything he may have said on the matter and see Devil Dogs take on that...if there is no mention of permissions, then he probably doesnt care...if he says "noone may use this map as a base for thier own work" then you are only adding insult to injury.
But I must say Lazer found the best way to go about it, recreating a BSP <i>for the origional author</i> with no plans for a public release...A far greater idea than any of the other 500 "nancy recreation" threads. If worse comes to worse, DD doesnt respond and we learn to use "unstuck" on servers that run the origional Nancy. Best case scenario, DD appreciates your efforts and either does the needed updates himself or hands it over to Lazer... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was actually going to bring what Spook said to attetion, but was obviously beaten to it. Well done <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem is this: I honestly don't expect DD to even <i>respond</i> to Lazer's attempt to recover the source. IF it won't be released publically, then isn't Lazer's entire project moot? Seems so to me.
This is why I urge you to make something new - something that fully utilizes your skills. Hoping for DD to come back is a vain hope at best - it's time to let it go <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, if this project is only for personal betterment and fame rather than actually playing nancy again, then have at it. Otherwise, there's truly no sense in continuing this. That's just the ay it boils down in my mind.
I'm not sure that such a negative stance should be taken.
First nancy should be remade as faithfully to the original as possible. Once that is done, revisements and improvements can be emplaced based on problems in the map (EG, one entrance to subspace hive etc).
Once the "Remaking" project is complete, and devildog shows no signs of wishing to continue then I'm optimistic that a "Revamping" project can take place afterwards.
<!--QuoteBegin--ozbirdboy+Aug 20 2003, 11:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ozbirdboy @ Aug 20 2003, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Lazer+Aug 20 2003, 10:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lazer @ Aug 20 2003, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I waited around to see if anything was gonna happen, and when I thought I saw someone actually going through with this team idea I jumped on the opertunity right away. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> as i recall, i wasnt the one who announced to work in a team on the last one, it was you: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=42449&st=0' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=4&t=42449&st=0</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, just wow. I said I could help if you want and then oh wait, what's this?! <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is all looking great. I PM the people who wanted to help so check ur box. Thanks all <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Flayra<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There was NO POINT in doing that if you didn't want a team. You could have said "thats ok I want to do this myself." No, you had to make it look like it was gonna happen and get me all prepared for it only to be told "actually, I just wanna do it myself". I would have no problem if it wasn't for you doing that.
<!--QuoteBegin--Asraniel+Aug 21 2003, 12:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ Aug 21 2003, 12:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes, work together and we will be all happy. And no one cares who of you two will finish it, because you wont be know as the mappers of nancy... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That isn't the point, the point is to give the source to the original author. If you have read anything you wouldn't have made that comment that I can't think of words to describe how stupid it was.
And the thing is I WANTED to work with him, but he doesn't. So I'm just gonna do my own thing the way it was planned out to be done before this whole Ozbirdboy thing.
Like I tried to say: THIS THREAD ISN'T MEANT FOR ARGUMENTS. IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT START A NEW THREAD. THIS THREAD WAS MADE TO LOOK FOR HELP WITH PUTTING TOGETHER A TEAM.
Just goes to show how smart some of the people around here are...
Note to Ozbirdboy: I understand you want to work by yourself and I don't have a problem with that. Things are going great for me and it really doesn't matter.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
well, i admit that i have overseen that little detail, but it wasnt realy meant for you that comment.. but well.
All i hope is that i will be able to play nancy again... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think Lazer is doing much better job of making exact copy, he has already fooled some people in thinking mess hall he made is the nancy one. Which is helluva good start.
You're doing a good thing Lazer (and the same to all the people that will help on this remake). Hopefully we will see nancy back in the game soon, looking and playing better than ever.
I like to see that you are trying to re-create the lost source, rather than creating ns_nancy2 or something that will go in your own name. Good man.
hahaha at first we thought we wouldn't be able to find anyone who'd want to remake nancy and now we have people fighting one another to get to remake it.
I would love to help out and join the team. I too had this sort of thing happen to me, so I feel for DevilDog. I had a map that was 90 percent completed and my HD was wiped out. I can only imagine his dissapointment and would like to help in any way that I can, I can model things "exactly" and I do have the time to do so.
aight ,call me dutch and stupid ( i am <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) buteuhm...
if you REmake Nancy 100% then wouldnt the onos problem still be there <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> or is DevilDog getting rid of the errors since u are giving the .rmf to him <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i think it's the second but i found that out typing this post , so it means this post is useless <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Nazul, nancy has to be recompiled with the new hull file for it to work. Currently nancy is unplayable because it was compiled without it, since the original rmf file was lost, it cannot be recompiled with the new hulls.
Hence, remaking the map 100%, sans the hull incompatibilities...
<!--QuoteBegin--Asraniel+Aug 21 2003, 05:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Asraniel @ Aug 21 2003, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes, work together and we will be all happy. And no one cares who of you two will finish it, because you wont be know as the mappers of nancy... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you kidding? How many thousands of people started playing NS when <i>2.0</i> came out? I dont doubt that a great many people will see these guys as the "real" author if one of these Nancy projects gets into regular rotation, especially considering most NS players dont even visit these forums, let alone the mapping forum. None of that even matters unless that person builds up a strong reputation for themselves and becomes known partly for nancy2 so anyway...
Keep in mind anyway guys, your brush structure and layout will likely deffer from that of DD, and even if you did get ahold of him, he may not be able to work efficiently with what you give him.
Comments
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=39894&hl=nancy&st=0' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...4&hl=nancy&st=0</a>
Then next (as far as I could find and remember) by Ollj in
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=38790&hl=ns_nancy' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...790&hl=ns_nancy</a>
where the first real serious discussion that I could find (including the possibility of forming a group) occured. So given this, if it's anyone's "personal project" it's Ollj's.
Now, having worked to get both sides in this "debate" out to lynch me, let me try to call a ceasefire around here by pointing out that Ozbirdboy and Lazer have two entirely different intents. Ozbirdboy's stated intent is to finally generate and distribute a full map (a modified ns_nancy, with his own ideas and touches). Lazer's stated intent is to "recover" the source for DevilDog (a near-flawless copy of ns_nancy). Between these two, nobody hijacked anybody's project. They are two different projects - they just happen to have similar aspects.
Now can we all get along and either help Lazer or at least stop trying to drag him down? (i.e. drop the moot argument about who's project it is, and cease comments about it being a waste of time/opportunity)
Has anyone even bothered to look at the Nancy read me or search the forums for anything he may have said on the matter and see Devil Dogs take on that...if there is no mention of permissions, then he probably doesnt care...if he says "noone may use this map as a base for thier own work" then you are only adding insult to injury.
But I must say Lazer found the best way to go about it, recreating a BSP <i>for the origional author</i> with no plans for a public release...A far greater idea than any of the other 500 "nancy recreation" threads. If worse comes to worse, DD doesnt respond and we learn to use "unstuck" on servers that run the origional Nancy. Best case scenario, DD appreciates your efforts and either does the needed updates himself or hands it over to Lazer...
Off course, decompilings **** up the map greatly, but you'll still have the layout done right with the right sizes (More or less) and you'll get all the right entities as well (including their location)
Keep it up.
By the way, if anyone knows where I can obtain the nancy.wad file, it would be a great help in getting started on those hallways <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit -- corrected]
Ahem... whoops, that was bast. Actually looking at *nancy* this time, there are nine included textures.
cleantrimmulti 256x128
d6_footlocker 128x96
d6_sub 48x48
d_drkmtllightb 256x256
mtlwrndoor2 256x256
R6_light2 32x16
bible 96x128
HUD1 256x192
sports1 80x128
They are relatively easy for me to extract (not sure if there any public tools to do it), but I'll have to get clearance from DD.
[/edit]
hmm looking at that other nancy posted earlier, someone HAS either remade it or decompiled it and changed it because it has new parts in it.
Has anyone even bothered to look at the Nancy read me or search the forums for anything he may have said on the matter and see Devil Dogs take on that...if there is no mention of permissions, then he probably doesnt care...if he says "noone may use this map as a base for thier own work" then you are only adding insult to injury.
But I must say Lazer found the best way to go about it, recreating a BSP <i>for the origional author</i> with no plans for a public release...A far greater idea than any of the other 500 "nancy recreation" threads. If worse comes to worse, DD doesnt respond and we learn to use "unstuck" on servers that run the origional Nancy. Best case scenario, DD appreciates your efforts and either does the needed updates himself or hands it over to Lazer... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was actually going to bring what Spook said to attetion, but was obviously beaten to it. Well done <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem is this: I honestly don't expect DD to even <i>respond</i> to Lazer's attempt to recover the source. IF it won't be released publically, then isn't Lazer's entire project moot? Seems so to me.
This is why I urge you to make something new - something that fully utilizes your skills. Hoping for DD to come back is a vain hope at best - it's time to let it go <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Of course, if this project is only for personal betterment and fame rather than actually playing nancy again, then have at it. Otherwise, there's truly no sense in continuing this. That's just the ay it boils down in my mind.
First nancy should be remade as faithfully to the original as possible. Once that is done, revisements and improvements can be emplaced based on problems in the map (EG, one entrance to subspace hive etc).
Once the "Remaking" project is complete, and devildog shows no signs of wishing to continue then I'm optimistic that a "Revamping" project can take place afterwards.
No copyright only credit.
as i recall, i wasnt the one who announced to work in a team on the last one, it was you:
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=42449&st=0' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...=4&t=42449&st=0</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, just wow. I said I could help if you want and then oh wait, what's this?!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->this is all looking great. I PM the people who wanted to help so check ur box. Thanks all
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Flayra<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There was NO POINT in doing that if you didn't want a team. You could have said "thats ok I want to do this myself." No, you had to make it look like it was gonna happen and get me all prepared for it only to be told "actually, I just wanna do it myself". I would have no problem if it wasn't for you doing that.
Here's a lesson in life: Don't lie to people.
That isn't the point, the point is to give the source to the original author. If you have read anything you wouldn't have made that comment that I can't think of words to describe how stupid it was.
And the thing is I WANTED to work with him, but he doesn't. So I'm just gonna do my own thing the way it was planned out to be done before this whole Ozbirdboy thing.
Like I tried to say:
THIS THREAD ISN'T MEANT FOR ARGUMENTS. IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT START A NEW THREAD. THIS THREAD WAS MADE TO LOOK FOR HELP WITH PUTTING TOGETHER A TEAM.
Just goes to show how smart some of the people around here are...
Note to Ozbirdboy: I understand you want to work by yourself and I don't have a problem with that. Things are going great for me and it really doesn't matter.
All i hope is that i will be able to play nancy again... <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I like to see that you are trying to re-create the lost source, rather than creating ns_nancy2 or something that will go in your own name. Good man.
I would love to help out and join the team. I too had this sort of thing happen to me, so I feel for DevilDog. I had a map that was 90 percent completed and my HD was wiped out. I can only imagine his dissapointment and would like to help in any way that I can, I can model things "exactly" and I do have the time to do so.
E-Mail me with further details.
E-mail: cody@getoutnow.com
AIM: FX5800Ultra
Thank you for your time,
~ DarkATi
if you REmake Nancy 100% then wouldnt the onos problem still be there <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
or is DevilDog getting rid of the errors since u are giving the .rmf to him <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i think it's the second but i found that out typing this post , so it means this post is useless <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
GJ Lazer , its really nais
Hence, remaking the map 100%, sans the hull incompatibilities...
Are you kidding? How many thousands of people started playing NS when <i>2.0</i> came out? I dont doubt that a great many people will see these guys as the "real" author if one of these Nancy projects gets into regular rotation, especially considering most NS players dont even visit these forums, let alone the mapping forum. None of that even matters unless that person builds up a strong reputation for themselves and becomes known partly for nancy2 so anyway...
Keep in mind anyway guys, your brush structure and layout will likely deffer from that of DD, and even if you did get ahold of him, he may not be able to work efficiently with what you give him.