Saddam Caught!
Diablus
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Moved topic</div> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is definetely Discussion Forum material. Could someone please repost it there?
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Hah! i told bush that wallhack goggles would work
Well... Discuss!
***Locked.*** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah! i told bush that wallhack goggles would work
Well... Discuss!
Comments
Saddam deserves a fair trial in an international court, and not at the hands of Iraqis whom would only be dishing out vengence...
Saddam deserves a fair trial in an international court, and not at the hands of Iraqis whom would only be dishing out vengence... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Saddam was born in Iraq. Lives in Iraq. Had Iraqi children. Ruled and killed Iraqi people. As an Iraqi he deserves to be judged by a panel of his fellow Iraqis who know how bad he is better than anyone having lived under him.
<a href='http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/12/14/sprj.irq.main/index.html' target='_blank'>CNN</a>
<a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3317429.stm' target='_blank'>BBC</a>
<a href='http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105706,00.html' target='_blank'>FOX</a>
Second, a moderation announcement: Iraq topics have, as the latest one shows, the tendency of becoming quite heated. I'll thus make liberal use of the 'Restricted Member' rule in case someone gets out of hand. Watch yourselves.
Third, my opinion:
I'm glad to see that at least the most minute of the aims followed by this war is now beginng to be met. Hussein will - hopefully - recieve justice in front of an Iraqian court, and this in itself is worth very much, although I'm still convinced the price for it was too high, and will remain to rise, because, no matter what you may believe, the war is <i>not</i> over.
No matter what the administratives might now say, Hussein was not the source of all the attacks (as even a number of high military officials note). Even in the most black-and-white view of the situation, there'd be the Ba'aths, the Al Quaeda, and Shiitic extremists. Capturing the old leader (so far, we can't even be sure he organized 'his' part of the 'resistance') of one of the three factions, and as I said, the real situation is bound to be much more diverse, with independent cells of self-motivated terrorists and similia uncalculable factors, will not end the confrontations within Iraq, in fact, it's well possible that they'll now heat up, just to spite the administrations.
Besides, I'd like to note that it <i>is</i> possible for judges in victimized countries to stay true to the law. A number of Israeli trials against alleged Holocaust-criminals ended with them being aquitted due to insufficient prove, for example.
Based on this argument, impeachment of a president should be removed from the US Constitution. Of course you can have impartial judges in this situation. No one is saying have one of a few thousand orphans who's parents died in the Kurd gassings preside over the court...
Death is too good a punishment, life in prison would be much better.
Congrats to all military guys! Your own buddies got this mofo. Feel proud.
now watch em find nuke warheads and sorts and half of the americans be like oh it wasnt a waste
and his torture chambers :X
This is actually the most interesting point to me: How much will he tell them, and how far will they go to make him?
I'd go back into an elaboration of why it's highly unlikely to find nuclear weapons in Iraq, but that'd derail the topic too far.
Saddams regime was so tyrannical, so iron fisted and instilled so much fear and such into the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people over such a long period of time, that nobody in Iraq hasnt been tainted. The Iraqi people are victims of Saddams regime, and as such cannot impartially judge him. It will take years, if not generations for Iraq to heal, and until such a time as this healing process is over the Iraqi people, as much as they deserve to have a trial for saddam, cannot be allowed to do so.
Vengence is not Justice. The Iraqis may deserve to put saddam on trial themselves, but that does not make it Right.
Now if you will excuse me. The rotation of the earth relative to the sun makes it very early morning over here and I need some well earned shuteye...
As long as hes not proscuted in an American Court.
I have to disagree here. Not <i>all</i> of the Iraqi people were put into thumbscrews during Husseins reign, no totalitarian system, and Hussein, while a tyrant and dictator, was not totalitarian, has so far managed to influence <i>all</i> of its citizens in a manner strong enough to motivate hate. Yes, there'll be animosities amongst the judges towards Hussein, but that's not unusual, and most judges have long ago found ways of dealing with those.
Essentially, the Iraqis are just too many people who live in too diverse situations to generalize their stance towards Hussein.
edit: And I meant years later, not at Nuremburg. Am I still wrong?
[edit]Posted via reply.[/edit]
Not Nuremburg, some years later. I thought they did internal house cleaning at that point?
Anyway, getting this back away from N?rmberg, any other points about Husseins trial and where it should be held?
"MTV drove me to kill kurds and my people."
"MTV drove me to kill kurds and my people." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh.. "GTA3 made me do it" <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think that he should be on trial by the Iraqi people. The rape argument doesn't work. Rape is a very tricky crime, because many times it is His word vs Her word. Saddam committed documented atrocities over his reign. He deserves justice.
However, I'm also not 100% convinced that he'll get either an International trial or an Iraqi trial anyway; Guantánamo Bay (possible incorrect spelling) has shown Bush is entirely fine with giving military prisoners a less-than-fair chance at things, and I think Saddam comes under that heading.
A write-up by Amnesty International on the conditions at Guantánamo Bay (which, I'll acknowledge, is probably biased in favour of the prisoners,) can be found here; <a href='http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR511412003?open&of=ENG-USA' target='_blank'>http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-USA</a>
While I'm aware I'm probably moving off the subject somewhat, I think America's handling of prisoners in the war against terrorism is relevant here, considering Saddam would technically be counted amongst them, even if on an entirely different magnitude.
edit:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not only can he now be used to give us information<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I said before, I'm rather interested in that point. Right now, his attitude is described as 'cooperative', but how far do you think should investigators be allowed to go with him? I'm pretty sure Hussein will, to name an example, not disclose the location of possible WMD reserves not to weaken his position in court - legally, that's his right.
What do you think about this?
edit2:
Thanks for the correction, Mons. I was under the impression that the head of an opposing army in a war is considered legally immune (to allow equal grounds for negotiations, for example). You never stop learning.
Unless the Bush administration has reached a new level of stupidity, they will of course not put him in Gitmo, and will instead simply hand him over to teh Iraqi's with a huge red bow on him saying 'Merry Christmas'. That alone could fundamentally change the US-Iraqi relationship forever and for the better, much like it did in Kuwait.
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