We Need To Improve The Skulks Late Game Effective
NightCrawlerz
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15609Members
<div class="IPBDescription">please help the poor thing</div> What if anythng can be done to improve skulks during late game?
i came up with a rampage idea where with each kill IN A ROW a skulk get he gains additional speed armor and health. So a skulk with 5-7 kills IN A ROW would become a monster.
but what other ideas can we come up with to improve a skulks late game?
what about a new evolution say an advanced skulk. cost 10 res to evolve has all the same attacks n stuff, but is 2x as big, looks slightly differnt, and has incresed health armor and speed.
say 150 health 40 armor and 20% faster than a basic skulk.
the skulk is a uniqe alein in the ns world who is extremly fun to play, but past the 4 minute mark they become ever incresingly useless. what i want is either a way to increse their late game effective ness OR come up with a new class that has all the skulk abilites but just more hp, armor, and speed so i can still have fun with the skulks uniqe style of movement and play while still being an effective killer.
throw me a bone here!!!
i came up with a rampage idea where with each kill IN A ROW a skulk get he gains additional speed armor and health. So a skulk with 5-7 kills IN A ROW would become a monster.
but what other ideas can we come up with to improve a skulks late game?
what about a new evolution say an advanced skulk. cost 10 res to evolve has all the same attacks n stuff, but is 2x as big, looks slightly differnt, and has incresed health armor and speed.
say 150 health 40 armor and 20% faster than a basic skulk.
the skulk is a uniqe alein in the ns world who is extremly fun to play, but past the 4 minute mark they become ever incresingly useless. what i want is either a way to increse their late game effective ness OR come up with a new class that has all the skulk abilites but just more hp, armor, and speed so i can still have fun with the skulks uniqe style of movement and play while still being an effective killer.
throw me a bone here!!!
Comments
An "advanced skulk" is a waste of res, considering you could just be a lerk for a tiny bit more res.
Rampage isn't going to help anything either.
Best thing to hope for (assuming change is warrented at all) is to have skulks get more armor and less health, so at the start of the game they are the same, and late game stronger via hive bonuses.
the advanced skulk idea is my personal favorite. I would kill for 100 extra hp and 40 armor and a slight speed increse. Maybe this is exactly what skulks need to keep skilled marines in check early game.
Flay if your out their. This owuld take almost NO coding at all. all you need to do is add advanced skulk evolution on to the skulk button out to the left. It would have all the same attacks (maybe an improved xeno) n stuff. LIEK NOOOO coding.
DO IT.... ill donate $50 for and improved skulk class.
Otherwise, the whole alien team would superskulk (literally) and wipe out the marines right from the start.
However, all the weapon slots are currently taken, so unless you're suggesting morphing into a superskulk with more hit points and a larger hitbox...it would be practically useless.
Consider, if it had a larger hitbox, more bullets would hit it, thereby effectively ruining your idea.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Regards,
Savant
Stop trying to change the game to fit your specific style of play.
Duh...
Apparently, you weren't around/paying attention when Nightcrawler used to always be around here screaming about how godly he was with a skulk with 3 bajillion leap kills a game...
:o
I like the sound of that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Stop trying to change the game to fit your specific style of play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are aware that spawn marines get more powerful, right? You know, the spawning with their upgrades. Like a2, which makes a marine go from a two-bite kill to a four-bite kill.
I think that making leap a worthwhile weapon again would do wonders for skulk effectiveness.
Torgo: yea, I remember. I actually find it hard to believe that anyone still takes the guy seriously when he talks about skulks :/ This was just a good place to say it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If a person is a skulk, and they don't have the res to go lerk/fade/onos then they don't exist in the late game (classic) since they can accomplish NOTHING. If they can't accomplish anything and if any attack on a marine gets them killed without doing anything to the marines, then you may as well remove that player from the game. So a 7 on 7 in the late game with 5 skulks is really a 7 on 2.
That doesn't sound 'biased' to me.
Regards,
Savant
If this is what you really believe, then there is not much I can say to change your mind (all the times I chomped down on remote res nodes and lone 'rines musta been "NOTHING"...). However, if in the end game, you do not have the res for even a lerk after a while, aliens are losing anyway.
Don't get me wrong, EARLY game skulk node hunting is crucial, but LATE game res node hunting is usually not nearly as important since marines get res so fast from just a few nodes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, if in the end game, you do not have the res for even a lerk after a while, aliens are losing anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem is that aliens get ONE shot with their upper level alien. If they die they have to wait a LONG time to upgrade, whereas a level 3 armor/level 3 damage marine gets it all for free and can do significant damage.
Late game skulks are more a nuisance than anything. If I have level 3 armor and level 3 damage skulks are not a concern to me.
Regards
anywayz. Skulks are pretty good after second hive when they can get two upgrades (focus, silence, celerity, scent of fear, cloaking, carapace are all good upgrades) and get leap. Leap is really really really good against jetpackers and light armor marines because it lets skulks close the gap faster and start using his melee attack before the marine gets a chance to get many bullets off. Leap isn't very good against HA, but that's where stomp comes in. Xenocide is really really good against HA because it strips their armor off fast and hurts lots of them. Skulks abilities later in the game are eclipsed by other lifeforms, but they do still have a role. Besides, a stock marine is useless against a three hive fade, so its even
back in 1.04 leap did around 400 damage. but still to this day no one but me and a few other really understood how much skill it took to get kills with. but the masses won because they sucked. gg
Don't get me wrong, EARLY game skulk node hunting is crucial, but LATE game res node hunting is usually not nearly as important since marines get res so fast from just a few nodes.
<b>The problem is that aliens get ONE shot with their upper level alien.</b> If they die they have to wait a LONG time to upgrade, whereas a level 3 armor/level 3 damage marine gets it all for free and can do significant damage.
Late game skulks are more a nuisance than anything. If I have level 3 armor and level 3 damage skulks are not a concern to me.
Regards <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont know how you play as skulk, but I can pretty much always find a node to hit. Tag it, chomp it till reinforcements arrive. If its electrified you tag it and move on. Perhaps if skulks were not busy throwing their lives away in the end game, marine's res wont flow so quickly with few nodes <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
in response to the bolded part: Shouldnt we be trying to solve the problem, not working around it by beefing the skulks by whatever means necessary?
Also, what are these "hive armor bonuses" you speak of? I havn't played NS for quite a while (not since 1.0....).
In the end, that what its all about, eh NightCrawler? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
AND IT WOULD HAVE WORKED TO IF IT WASNT FOR YOU MEDDLING KIDS errr POEPLE
SCOOBY DOOBIE DOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Skulk is a small and weak piece of crap compared to a Fade, for instance. A good player could go through 10 skulks or more in the time a good player will stay alive as a Fade.
As such, it is currently uneconomical for the Skulk to upgrade himself very much or at all every death, as the upgrades don't really extend the life of the skulk over time by very much. (at least for me ;))
A problem I see with Classic (as a Combat player) is that Aliens are forced to spend too much time as a Skulk. [Another being that Alien players can only get one upgrade from each chamber tree, but that's for another thread.]
If upgrades for the default life form were cheaper (or free?), would that be too unfair for marines? Maybe a little early on, but I wouldn't expect so later in the game.
This is a good point. Back in old days I got one or two leap kills every day. I haven't seen any leap kills in 3.0. Seems like leap got nerfed.
Late game = complex for the aliens, complex for the marines.
Conclusion: Gameplay evolves, removing the evolution makes the game boring. This is why 40 minute combat games are boring, repeditive gameplay.
In combat it takes a level 6 marine to equal a mid-game LA marine in classic NS. ( Lvl 2 armour + Lvl 2 damage + Grenades)
Obviously the skulk is the weaker of the two. Coupled with the fact that they are ineffective against HA trains, while LA+LMGs retain their usefulness throughout the game, the skulk ultimately comes out the loser. Moreover, marines can be equipped with high-damage weapons for a relatively low cost. For the price of one fade the marine team can get 5 shotguns.
My suggestion would be to beef up the skulks by restoring their durability to 2.01 levels at hive 2.
Once two hives come around skulks have these advantages:
- Leap (basically skulks can now attack, and a quite good at it, sucidial attackers of doom)
- Two hives spawning in skulks at 7 seconds a whack (Marine IP's spawn in at 12 seconds a whack... so two hives is faster than 3 IP's)
So skulks are plentiful, deadly, and most importantly, free
Skulks become very useful in the later game, I would contest that as they get more hives they become the most cost effective class.
and tell me what server you play on so i can come and harras you, like you do others on the forums.
and tell me what server you play on so i can come and harras you, like you do others on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i second that d(O_o)d
and imho making skulks a little bit stronger at hive 2 and 3 is a good thing as they are weak compared lvl2/3 armor and lvl2/3 weapon marines. you just don't get upgrades most of the time coz it would be a huge waste of res after several deaths.
No. Why don't you try refuting my oppinion or argument, or is this too much to comprehend?
and tell me what server you play on so i can come and harras you, like you do others on the forums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He may be blunt, but he's usualy right, or at least offering a good point of contention.
And telling anyone to bugger off in a public thread is just funny and/or sad. Particularly when he raises valid, and in this case correct, points.
I belive the classic quote goes something like this:
"We can't balance the players, only the game"
A good skulk is just that, good. A bad skulk will run straight down a long hallway towards a marine, get creamed, and then come here and whine about it. The skulk is not an assault class. Diversion, evasion and abush are your tactics. Learn it, and suddenly you might actually kill someone.
Everything that is posted in these forums is OPINION. That means it is neither right nor wrong. My points are not 'right', and neither are Forlorn's or anyone else's. They are opinions. Points of view. Statements of a person's position. They can be agreed or disagreed with, but they cannot be right or wrong.
While I disagree with Forlorn on almost everything, I do respect the fact that he debates in a civil fashion. I've dealt with people who have had far less manners.
I'd like to offer a simple phrase that I use when debating. I always try and keep it in mind so that I don't let my zest for a particular issue get the best of me.
'Attack the words, not the writer.'
Regards,
Savant