<!--QuoteBegin-Daxx22+Mar 15 2004, 05:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Mar 15 2004, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> A good skulk is just that, good. A bad skulk will run straight down a long hallway towards a marine, get creamed, and then come here and whine about it. The skulk is not an assault class. Diversion, evasion and abush are your tactics. Learn it, and suddenly you might actually kill someone. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah, and ambush works great in the first 5 minutes when marines are expanding, but once they lock down 2 or 3 extra nodes, they don't push out as much (they'd be stupid to push out anymore till they get more armor/weapons).
What you want us to do? WAIT them to death? The name of the game in classic NS is ASSAULT the enemy position and take down their res nodes. Skulk can't do this at all, leap helps a little, but not as much as the other classes. All it does is get you to the target quicker, like a celarity that costs energy to use.
Now if leap had an extra powerful bite on the end of it, maybe it would be worth something, but i'd say increase their damage every hive level (maybe by 5 or 10 points).
What skulks need to be able to do is keep their leathalness throughout the game (dispite lvl 2 and 3 armor) but also keep their vulnerability. So they are easy to kill if you spot them (and can shoot straight) but if they get in close they SHOULD tear you a new one (unless you got a heavy suit on of course).
<!--QuoteBegin-civman2+Mar 14 2004, 06:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (civman2 @ Mar 14 2004, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hi rapier7! What's up? (you may recognize me from TAU)
anywayz. Skulks are pretty good after second hive when they can get two upgrades (focus, silence, celerity, scent of fear, cloaking, carapace are all good upgrades) and get leap. Leap is really really really good against jetpackers and light armor marines because it lets skulks close the gap faster and start using his melee attack before the marine gets a chance to get many bullets off. Leap isn't very good against HA, but that's where stomp comes in. Xenocide is really really good against HA because it strips their armor off fast and hurts lots of them. Skulks abilities later in the game are eclipsed by other lifeforms, but they do still have a role. Besides, a stock marine is useless against a three hive fade, so its even <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey, civman2, too bad I don't see you at TAU frequently anymore...
Anyways....
The problem with the aliens are that their resources are shared, while the marines have a commander.
This makes it even worse with large pubs.
So we have a bunch of reswhoring gimps (my word for 'noob') who just run around feeding marines RFK and a brave few veterans who take up the job as gorge while knowing they will lose.
But since the skulk has little/no effectiveness in the late game, it makes it impossible for them to come back, while a marine team battered on all sides could still take out a hive and force the aliens back on the defensive.
Bridger has a good point:
What are you going to do? Wait for the marines to lock down your hive, or rush in and get killed? Neither choice achieves anything and worse, it shows how strategically impotent the skulk is in certain aspects of the game.
Edit: 3-4 upgraded marines have a chance against a fade. And marines are expendable.
Please come to the voogru server and ask any of the admins there and/or voogru him self if i rock with a skulk. Dont try and insult my skill at rapage because they are indeed great. Forlorn gave no valid point. all he said was that you must suck therefore the skulk is balanced.
now how does that state any point or any kind solution other than forlorn saying he has never seen me play and also making him look completly ignorant to those who have.
I know every frikin trick in the book for taking out marines. you can take any equpipment you want but in a 1v1 situation i will own you hands down as a skulk. the skulk needs an ability that allows him to stay in motion while still dealing damage, because if a skulk stops he is dead. The old 1.04 leap was exactly what the skulk needed. It allowed him to deal moderate damage on a fly by and deal massive damage if he wanted to stop on a marine for a few seconds.
with a 60 fps:
80 damage on a fly by 350 damage on a grind
with the new crappy leap: 5 damage on a flyby 80 dmage on a grind.
grind: plowing into a marine and staying in contact with his hitbox for a full second flyby: brushing up agianst a marine for a split second.
the grind took emmence skill because you had to plow into a marine and stay in contact with him for an entire second. if the marine was moving at ALL you would fly off and miss 3/4 of the touches completly. The grid was only effective if you could trap them agianst a wall or get in frount of them with the leap and stop them. the grind was EXTREEMLY EFFECTIVE agianst still marines who were hiding in vents, camping corners, or just plain standing still.
Isnt this exactly what we want the skulk to be good at? All you had to do was strafe when a skulk tried to leap you and youd only take like 40-50 damage. But people who camp started getting owned because they were camping vents, standing still, or campign corners and it was nerfed. doesnt this nerf seem like the most idiotic most ignorant thing? A class that supposed to excel at killing unknowing marines has its main weapon distroyed because a bunch of noobs couldnt learn to strafe. The main concern was leap biting being to effective with such high leap damage, but no solutions were suggested to make them live in harmony just a blatant nerf.
flay put a dagger in my very heart.
dont come here and say i need more "skill" or learn to play better, because im there i know all the tricks and i know the skuk inside and out. You are the one who needs to go out and try playing with the skulk 24/7/365 everygame all game then and only then will you know as much as i do about the inner workings of a skulk and only then will you have enough wisdom not to make such blatantly ignorant remarks.
I'd say late game skulks are alright ... With leap, regen, and celerity there's still a lot of kills you can get. Though it gets kinda hard with HAs around ... Meh if anything i'd say its the early game skulks that need help <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I think changing the balance of health to armour for skulks to increase the impact of hive armour bonuses is the best way to make late game skulks more viable; let's say 40/25 instead of 70/10.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 16 2004, 04:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 16 2004, 04:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are the one who needs to go out and try playing with the skulk 24/7/365 everygame all game then and only then will you know as much as i do about the inner workings of a skulk and only then will you have enough wisdom not to make such blatantly ignorant remarks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For all the wisdom you seem to exude, you haven't really pointed anything out the _I_ didn't already know, and only I play NS maybe 5 hours a week.
Perhaps you should stop trying to attack people, or be as arrogant to think you are BETTER than some people, and back up your argument.
BTW: Forlorn makes a lot more sense than most people around, including yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please come to the voogru server and ask any of the admins there and/or voogru him self if i rock with a skulk. Dont try and insult my skill at rapage because they are indeed great. Forlorn gave no valid point. all he said was that you must suck therefore the skulk is balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While I have nothing against voogru, I do find this quote to be hilarious.
Next, the fact is, leaping makes a skulk extreamlly deadly without it dealing absurd amounts of damage. Biting should be the number one way a skulk kills his people, and leap should be the tool that allows him to do it.
Also, you should realize that no one cares how good you are at the game. You cannot just say because "I own" the game should therefore be changed to how you want it. Trust me, us vets know this better than anyone.
I posted this is a different topic a little while ago, but it really applies here so I'm copying it here also...
Note that none of these ideas increases skulk power early game, just in late game, when they need it.
Skulks could be made exempt from motion tracking. Dictionary reference to the word 'skulk' is "To move about stealthily." Their small size could be the logical reason for the exemption. This would help skulks super duper bigtime immensely.
Chamber upgrades could cost only 1 res, making skulk upgrades something economical enough to be worth it. You could just tack on the other res point if you gestate to a higher form. Or an even better idea is to let skulk upgrades persist though death (similar to the way rine upgrades are), being that skulks die constantly, this would give them reason to have upgrades.
Another alien structure, smaller than a hive and one that can be built anywhere (for something like 30 res) that increases the alien spawn rate by 1. Aliens spawn way too slow with 1 hive, this would definately help. And it would mainly benefit skulks, as higher life forms won't be (at least not on purpose) needing to respawn as much. It also would add a layer of strategy for aliens.
Electrical defences need to be toned down, it doesn't dissuade any alien other than skulk anyways. With ED doing the damage it does... at the range it does... to two targets... it seriously kills any kind of skulk assult on marine structures, even with a large team of skulks working together.
Marine siege is too quick and easy to set up for the amount of damage it can do (several hundred res worth of alien structures gone in a minute). It really prevents any alien retaliation unless they just all happen to be there at that moment. Plus the splash damage from siege killing alien players... that's bad, m'kay. Slow buildtime and decrease damage.
... Personally, I think the above ideas area really good, even if the last two have been around for awhile. <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next, the fact is, leaping makes a skulk extreamlly deadly without it dealing absurd amounts of damage. Biting should be the number one way a skulk kills his people, and leap should be the tool that allows him to do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not a fact at all. this is forlorn stating his opinion trying to pass it off as fact. guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 16 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 16 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next, the fact is, leaping makes a skulk extreamlly deadly without it dealing absurd amounts of damage. Biting should be the number one way a skulk kills his people, and leap should be the tool that allows him to do it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not a fact at all. this is forlorn stating his opinion trying to pass it off as fact. guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would agree with you, it is not a <i>fact</i>. But I would agree with Forlorn's assertion. A leaping skulk is very dangerious as he closes that all important gap between himself and the marine. And it's very hard to hit a skulk that's leaping.
Personally, I don't think the skulk needs any "late game" adjustments. Late game you really shouldn't have a lot of skulks, and the ones you do have should not be your front line attackers. That's like saying that a "late game" LMG should be beefed up because it sucks against onos.
Aliens have higher life forms for a reason, I really dont understand all this concern about skulks dieing to level 3 marines. They're supposed to.. or at least I thought they were.
<!--QuoteBegin-[ev0l] Zues+Mar 16 2004, 10:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([ev0l] Zues @ Mar 16 2004, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's like saying that a "late game" LMG should be beefed up because it sucks against onos. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately LMG doesn't suck against onos <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> I wish it did. It and the knife.
The late game LA+LMG isn't useless. This is because he can still do a reasonable amount of damage from any given position, so long as the alien is within firing range. As all aliens are melee, this means that a group of LMGs can deal some damage to any class of alien, be it the almighty onos or a lowly skulk. Moreover, individual marines get access to all upgrades. In other words, a 2-hive celerity and carapace skulk would most likely be facing a 2/2 marine with MT, grenades and some medspam.
Late game skulks, on the other hand, have to close up the gap between them and the enemy before being capable of dealing damage. The marines, unfortunately, have a truckload of cheap and good anti-skulk weaponry that tear these poor critters to shreds in milliseconds.
I think skulks retaining upgrades on death would be a great equalizer to marines spawning fully equiped with the lvl 2 armor and damage later in the game.
Perhaps once 2 hives go up skulks will retain upgrades? It seems insignifigant but i think it would give them a slight boost that certainly won't overpower them.
I think the percieved late game ineffectiveness of skulks is directly reltated to the nerfing of Leap. While the FPS dependency Leap had was horribly imbalanced, I think that the damage levels on Leap and Charge need a serious looking at. Since the Leap Nerf, parasite kills are far more prevlent than leap kills. So basically as it stands now, skulks get one weapon until three hives, it never gets any better, and the only way to do more damage is to wait until there are three hives and blow yourself up repeatedly. If Leap is to remain purely for locomotion, it needs an energy reduction and the "Hey, we have two hives" sound needs to be toned down or elimintaed.
<!--QuoteBegin-RabidWeasel+Mar 16 2004, 06:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RabidWeasel @ Mar 16 2004, 06:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think changing the balance of health to armour for skulks to increase the impact of hive armour bonuses is the best way to make late game skulks more viable; let's say 40/25 instead of 70/10. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not a bad idea at all.
One problem I see with it is that regen, while it is a bit weak on skulks now, would be completely useless if you regened 3-4 a tick.
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 17 2004, 03:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 17 2004, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So basically as it stands now, skulks get one weapon until three hives, it never gets any better, and the only way to do more damage is to wait until there are three hives and blow yourself up repeatedly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And now the **3 hive** weapon of skulks--xenocide has been hit with the nerf stick. Blast damage is no more.
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 17 2004, 11:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 17 2004, 11:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the percieved late game ineffectiveness of skulks is directly reltated to the nerfing of Leap. While the FPS dependency Leap had was horribly imbalanced, I think that the damage levels on Leap and Charge need a serious looking at. Since the Leap Nerf, parasite kills are far more prevlent than leap kills. So basically as it stands now, skulks get one weapon until three hives, it never gets any better, and the only way to do more damage is to wait until there are three hives and blow yourself up repeatedly. If Leap is to remain purely for locomotion, it needs an energy reduction and the "Hey, we have two hives" sound needs to be toned down or elimintaed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I fully agree, charge used to be great for taking down buildings, i tried it the other day, thinking i'd blow through them in a couple of seconds, i hardly watched the bar one one turret get halfway down!? Talk about useless.
Leap is decent, but if it is going to be just movement, it needs to be reduced in it's cost (that being the energy). Great point.
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please come to the voogru server and ask any of the admins there and/or voogru him self if i rock with a skulk. Dont try and insult my skill at rapage because they are indeed great. Forlorn gave no valid point. all he said was that you must suck therefore the skulk is balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, you must be awesome. Being able to pad your stats in that zenith of competitive gaming that is the voogru server - and with him running all these alien unfriendly modifications like multiple upgrades of the same chamber for the Kharaa. You are just so damn uber.
Oh wait a minute, even I can lead the scoreboard on voogru. Kthxbai.
<!--QuoteBegin-SaltzBad+Mar 18 2004, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SaltzBad @ Mar 18 2004, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 15 2004, 11:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please come to the voogru server and ask any of the admins there and/or voogru him self if i rock with a skulk. Dont try and insult my skill at rapage because they are indeed great. Forlorn gave no valid point. all he said was that you must suck therefore the skulk is balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow, you must be awesome. Being able to pad your stats in that zenith of competitive gaming that is the voogru server - and with him running all these alien unfriendly modifications like multiple upgrades of the same chamber for the Kharaa. You are just so damn uber.
Oh wait a minute, even I can lead the scoreboard on voogru. Kthxbai. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> pwnt.
Personally I don't care about hte dmg on leap as I use leap mainly to confuse poor marines that im attacking for instance I get in close bite leap straight up lokk down and bite again, etc.. although a slight deduction on leap energy cost would be nice that way with regen you could leap a whole lot more than now without running out of adren.
The current leap for combat is actually good for the purpose of getting to your target. When its a 1on1, the skulk can usually leap and bite over and over untill he kills his target. This happened to me a few times in one game as a fully upgrade marine. Course the guy could have been using an aimbot. Who knows.
As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.
Which gives me an S&I If onos could push, allow the marines to pick up objects and push back. A Comander could build a siege at home, then have 2-3 marines (with proper coding.) "Pick" it up and slowly drag it into position. This would create a mini game of hunted. (And more strategies.) Course this wouldnt apply to all buldings, I doubt anyone could live that Com chair or a res tower. What also could be allowed is for the marines to pick up alien structures such as Movement chambers. They could drag it away from battle and then hack it up in a safe place. The upside is mobility, the downside is the time it takes.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thor-Stryker+Mar 18 2004, 11:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thor-Stryker @ Mar 18 2004, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The current leap for combat is actually good for the purpose of getting to your target. When its a 1on1, the skulk can usually leap and bite over and over untill he kills his target. This happened to me a few times in one game as a fully upgrade marine. Course the guy could have been using an aimbot. Who knows.
As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.
Which gives me an S&I If onos could push, allow the marines to pick up objects and push back. A Comander could build a siege at home, then have 2-3 marines (with proper coding.) "Pick" it up and slowly drag it into position. This would create a mini game of hunted. (And more strategies.) Course this wouldnt apply to all buldings, I doubt anyone could live that Com chair or a res tower. What also could be allowed is for the marines to pick up alien structures such as Movement chambers. They could drag it away from battle and then hack it up in a safe place. The upside is mobility, the downside is the time it takes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Please come to the voogru server and ask any of the admins there and/or voogru him self if i rock with a skulk. Dont try and insult my skill at rapage because they are indeed great. Forlorn gave no valid point. all he said was that you must suck therefore the skulk is balanced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bragging about how "rapage" you are on voogru is like a scrub JV basketball player bragging about how he can beat the 12 year olds in the street.
Try playing in a server that actually requires talent, I'm sure you would be in for a rude awakening.
Or better yet, why not join a clan and go competitive, I mean you should be able to teach some of the vets and the elite a new things or two! That would be GREAT!
<!--QuoteBegin-NightCrawler.+Mar 16 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NightCrawler. @ Mar 16 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats not a fact at all. this is forlorn stating his opinion trying to pass it off as fact. guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait.... Now you're changing what you want.
Facts: Bite is the Primary attack of the skulk. Primary attacks are the number one way kills are made. Leap is the fastest way to close a gap.
Opinions: Leap should be the Primary attack
So please tell me how I'm wrong and how you're always right since you're so good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 17 2004, 05:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 17 2004, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> One problem I see with it is that regen, while it is a bit weak on skulks now, would be completely useless if you regened 3-4 a tick. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True, but then the problem of some chamber upgrades being worthless for some lifeforms has always been an issue in NS.
If skulks were powerful enough to fight against a level 10 marine, marines would lose every game... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
yeah, and ambush works great in the first 5 minutes when marines are expanding, but once they lock down 2 or 3 extra nodes, they don't push out as much (they'd be stupid to push out anymore till they get more armor/weapons).
What you want us to do? WAIT them to death? The name of the game in classic NS is ASSAULT the enemy position and take down their res nodes. Skulk can't do this at all, leap helps a little, but not as much as the other classes. All it does is get you to the target quicker, like a celarity that costs energy to use.
Now if leap had an extra powerful bite on the end of it, maybe it would be worth something, but i'd say increase their damage every hive level (maybe by 5 or 10 points).
What skulks need to be able to do is keep their leathalness throughout the game (dispite lvl 2 and 3 armor) but also keep their vulnerability. So they are easy to kill if you spot them (and can shoot straight) but if they get in close they SHOULD tear you a new one (unless you got a heavy suit on of course).
anywayz. Skulks are pretty good after second hive when they can get two upgrades (focus, silence, celerity, scent of fear, cloaking, carapace are all good upgrades) and get leap. Leap is really really really good against jetpackers and light armor marines because it lets skulks close the gap faster and start using his melee attack before the marine gets a chance to get many bullets off. Leap isn't very good against HA, but that's where stomp comes in. Xenocide is really really good against HA because it strips their armor off fast and hurts lots of them. Skulks abilities later in the game are eclipsed by other lifeforms, but they do still have a role. Besides, a stock marine is useless against a three hive fade, so its even <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, civman2, too bad I don't see you at TAU frequently anymore...
Anyways....
The problem with the aliens are that their resources are shared, while the marines have a commander.
This makes it even worse with large pubs.
So we have a bunch of reswhoring gimps (my word for 'noob') who just run around feeding marines RFK and a brave few veterans who take up the job as gorge while knowing they will lose.
But since the skulk has little/no effectiveness in the late game, it makes it impossible for them to come back, while a marine team battered on all sides could still take out a hive and force the aliens back on the defensive.
Bridger has a good point:
What are you going to do? Wait for the marines to lock down your hive, or rush in and get killed? Neither choice achieves anything and worse, it shows how strategically impotent the skulk is in certain aspects of the game.
Edit: 3-4 upgraded marines have a chance against a fade. And marines are expendable.
now how does that state any point or any kind solution other than forlorn saying he has never seen me play and also making him look completly ignorant to those who have.
I know every frikin trick in the book for taking out marines. you can take any equpipment you want but in a 1v1 situation i will own you hands down as a skulk. the skulk needs an ability that allows him to stay in motion while still dealing damage, because if a skulk stops he is dead. The old 1.04 leap was exactly what the skulk needed. It allowed him to deal moderate damage on a fly by and deal massive damage if he wanted to stop on a marine for a few seconds.
with a 60 fps:
80 damage on a fly by
350 damage on a grind
with the new crappy leap:
5 damage on a flyby
80 dmage on a grind.
grind: plowing into a marine and staying in contact with his hitbox for a full second
flyby: brushing up agianst a marine for a split second.
the grind took emmence skill because you had to plow into a marine and stay in contact with him for an entire second. if the marine was moving at ALL you would fly off and miss 3/4 of the touches completly. The grid was only effective if you could trap them agianst a wall or get in frount of them with the leap and stop them.
the grind was EXTREEMLY EFFECTIVE agianst still marines who were hiding in vents, camping corners, or just plain standing still.
Isnt this exactly what we want the skulk to be good at? All you had to do was strafe when a skulk tried to leap you and youd only take like 40-50 damage. But people who camp started getting owned because they were camping vents, standing still, or campign corners and it was nerfed. doesnt this nerf seem like the most idiotic most ignorant thing? A class that supposed to excel at killing unknowing marines has its main weapon distroyed because a bunch of noobs couldnt learn to strafe. The main concern was leap biting being to effective with such high leap damage, but no solutions were suggested to make them live in harmony just a blatant nerf.
flay put a dagger in my very heart.
dont come here and say i need more "skill" or learn to play better, because im there i know all the tricks and i know the skuk inside and out. You are the one who needs to go out and try playing with the skulk 24/7/365 everygame all game then and only then will you know as much as i do about the inner workings of a skulk and only then will you have enough wisdom not to make such blatantly ignorant remarks.
For all the wisdom you seem to exude, you haven't really pointed anything out the _I_ didn't already know, and only I play NS maybe 5 hours a week.
Perhaps you should stop trying to attack people, or be as arrogant to think you are BETTER than some people, and back up your argument.
BTW: Forlorn makes a lot more sense than most people around, including yourself.
While I have nothing against voogru, I do find this quote to be hilarious.
Next, the fact is, leaping makes a skulk extreamlly deadly without it dealing absurd amounts of damage. Biting should be the number one way a skulk kills his people, and leap should be the tool that allows him to do it.
Also, you should realize that no one cares how good you are at the game. You cannot just say because "I own" the game should therefore be changed to how you want it. Trust me, us vets know this better than anyone.
Try thinking, and then try again.
Note that none of these ideas increases skulk power early game, just in late game, when they need it.
Skulks could be made exempt from motion tracking. Dictionary reference to the word 'skulk' is "To move about stealthily." Their small size could be the logical reason for the exemption. This would help skulks super duper bigtime immensely.
Chamber upgrades could cost only 1 res, making skulk upgrades something economical enough to be worth it. You could just tack on the other res point if you gestate to a higher form. Or an even better idea is to let skulk upgrades persist though death (similar to the way rine upgrades are), being that skulks die constantly, this would give them reason to have upgrades.
Another alien structure, smaller than a hive and one that can be built anywhere (for something like 30 res) that increases the alien spawn rate by 1. Aliens spawn way too slow with 1 hive, this would definately help. And it would mainly benefit skulks, as higher life forms won't be (at least not on purpose) needing to respawn as much. It also would add a layer of strategy for aliens.
Electrical defences need to be toned down, it doesn't dissuade any alien other than skulk anyways. With ED doing the damage it does... at the range it does... to two targets... it seriously kills any kind of skulk assult on marine structures, even with a large team of skulks working together.
Marine siege is too quick and easy to set up for the amount of damage it can do (several hundred res worth of alien structures gone in a minute). It really prevents any alien retaliation unless they just all happen to be there at that moment. Plus the splash damage from siege killing alien players... that's bad, m'kay. Slow buildtime and decrease damage.
... Personally, I think the above ideas area really good, even if the last two have been around for awhile.
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thats not a fact at all. this is forlorn stating his opinion trying to pass it off as fact.
guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew.
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thats not a fact at all. this is forlorn stating his opinion trying to pass it off as fact.
guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would agree with you, it is not a <i>fact</i>. But I would agree with Forlorn's assertion. A leaping skulk is very dangerious as he closes that all important gap between himself and the marine. And it's very hard to hit a skulk that's leaping.
Personally, I don't think the skulk needs any "late game" adjustments. Late game you really shouldn't have a lot of skulks, and the ones you do have should not be your front line attackers. That's like saying that a "late game" LMG should be beefed up because it sucks against onos.
Aliens have higher life forms for a reason, I really dont understand all this concern about skulks dieing to level 3 marines. They're supposed to.. or at least I thought they were.
Unfortunately LMG doesn't suck against onos <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I wish it did. It and the knife.
Late game skulks, on the other hand, have to close up the gap between them and the enemy before being capable of dealing damage. The marines, unfortunately, have a truckload of cheap and good anti-skulk weaponry that tear these poor critters to shreds in milliseconds.
Perhaps once 2 hives go up skulks will retain upgrades? It seems insignifigant but i think it would give them a slight boost that certainly won't overpower them.
Not a bad idea at all.
One problem I see with it is that regen, while it is a bit weak on skulks now, would be completely useless if you regened 3-4 a tick.
And now the **3 hive** weapon of skulks--xenocide has been hit with the nerf stick. Blast damage is no more.
I fully agree, charge used to be great for taking down buildings, i tried it the other day, thinking i'd blow through them in a couple of seconds, i hardly watched the bar one one turret get halfway down!? Talk about useless.
Leap is decent, but if it is going to be just movement, it needs to be reduced in it's cost (that being the energy). Great point.
Wow, you must be awesome. Being able to pad your stats in that zenith of competitive gaming that is the voogru server - and with him running all these alien unfriendly modifications like multiple upgrades of the same chamber for the Kharaa. You are just so damn uber.
Oh wait a minute, even I can lead the scoreboard on voogru. Kthxbai.
Wow, you must be awesome. Being able to pad your stats in that zenith of competitive gaming that is the voogru server - and with him running all these alien unfriendly modifications like multiple upgrades of the same chamber for the Kharaa. You are just so damn uber.
Oh wait a minute, even I can lead the scoreboard on voogru. Kthxbai. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
pwnt.
As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.
Which gives me an S&I If onos could push, allow the marines to pick up objects and push back. A Comander could build a siege at home, then have 2-3 marines (with proper coding.) "Pick" it up and slowly drag it into position. This would create a mini game of hunted. (And more strategies.) Course this wouldnt apply to all buldings, I doubt anyone could live that Com chair or a res tower. What also could be allowed is for the marines to pick up alien structures such as Movement chambers. They could drag it away from battle and then hack it up in a safe place. The upside is mobility, the downside is the time it takes.
As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.
Which gives me an S&I If onos could push, allow the marines to pick up objects and push back. A Comander could build a siege at home, then have 2-3 marines (with proper coding.) "Pick" it up and slowly drag it into position. This would create a mini game of hunted. (And more strategies.) Course this wouldnt apply to all buldings, I doubt anyone could live that Com chair or a res tower. What also could be allowed is for the marines to pick up alien structures such as Movement chambers. They could drag it away from battle and then hack it up in a safe place. The upside is mobility, the downside is the time it takes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for charge, it is a gimp weapon, charge it self gets less kills than Acid Rocket, and thats saying alot. If charge was to be useful at its current damage rate, the Onos should be able to push objects while he charges. Sure he wont destroy them, but he could move that one siege out of range thats about to take out the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
on ns_nothing:
Pushes CC into pit
I win!
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Bragging about how "rapage" you are on voogru is like a scrub JV basketball player bragging about how he can beat the 12 year olds in the street.
Try playing in a server that actually requires talent, I'm sure you would be in for a rude awakening.
Or better yet, why not join a clan and go competitive, I mean you should be able to teach some of the vets and the elite a new things or two! That would be GREAT!
guess what forlorn. not every thing you say is fact. You WANT leap biting to be a skulks primary offence, but i dont WANT this. go back through your posts and in frount of all your "facts' put I WANT and then youl realise how much BS you spew. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait.... Now you're changing what you want.
Facts:
Bite is the Primary attack of the skulk.
Primary attacks are the number one way kills are made.
Leap is the fastest way to close a gap.
Opinions:
Leap should be the Primary attack
So please tell me how I'm wrong and how you're always right since you're so good.
This IS the internet after all.
True, but then the problem of some chamber upgrades being worthless for some lifeforms has always been an issue in NS.
Laep needs to own Bcause I say so I don't care how the geam is cruently plad