Focus Is Not "nub"
X_Stickman
Not good enough for a custom title. Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Members, Constellation
Not good enough for a custom title. Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">REALLY (this is combat btw)</div> It's starting to get annoying now. "Focus nub ffs get some skill" < What? Focus takes skill. Miss once you're dead. You have to dance around a target with armour upgrades so that you make sure each hit connects, and you have to actively pick out weakened targets from a crowd of marines (for instance, you know most marines have armour 1 at least, see a medpack fall, go for that marine).
What really annoys me is the fact that these marines are saying "Jesus get some skill instead of one hit gib!", when they let the skulk get close enough to bite in the first place. While it does indeed take quite a bit of skill to take down an ok-ish skulk before it gets to you, once it does reach you, you're probably dead anyway, regardless of whether it has focus or not.
And why do these people never say anything about shotguns? A decent shotgun hit will take a skulk down in one shot no matter WHAT upgrades it has. It takes a marine one upgrade point to defend himself against focus, whereas it takes an alien at *least* two, and that'd only get you to a lerk without upgrades, which falls prey to a shotgunner as easily as a skulk does. So you're looking at about 5-6 points if you go for lerk, and 4-5 points if you go for fade, before an alien becomes.... not even immune, as a regen cara fade will fall to 4 L3 shotty blasts, but apart from onos, that's the best aliens have against shotgunners.
I don't really have a point to this post other than to let off steam about people complaining about Focus. It ISN'T a nub upgrade (it's the most anti-nub thing in the game), it DOES take skill, and it's NOT lame. The point wasted on gaining focus is cancelled out by the marines point for taking armour, which most of them do for a JP/HA anyway (a focus skulk will generally fare worse against a L1 armour marine than an unfocused skulk will against a L0 armour marine, as it has to get in close, bite, dance away, and get in close again, whereas an unfocused skulk can just hold attack down).
No actually, i do have a point. What do the rest of you think? Is focus "nub", or does it require skill, just as a shotgun does?
P.S, this is NOT a balance thread. If you feel focus, shotguns, JPs etc are unbalanced, that's your right to think so, but bring it up in the beta or I&S forum, not this thread.
What really annoys me is the fact that these marines are saying "Jesus get some skill instead of one hit gib!", when they let the skulk get close enough to bite in the first place. While it does indeed take quite a bit of skill to take down an ok-ish skulk before it gets to you, once it does reach you, you're probably dead anyway, regardless of whether it has focus or not.
And why do these people never say anything about shotguns? A decent shotgun hit will take a skulk down in one shot no matter WHAT upgrades it has. It takes a marine one upgrade point to defend himself against focus, whereas it takes an alien at *least* two, and that'd only get you to a lerk without upgrades, which falls prey to a shotgunner as easily as a skulk does. So you're looking at about 5-6 points if you go for lerk, and 4-5 points if you go for fade, before an alien becomes.... not even immune, as a regen cara fade will fall to 4 L3 shotty blasts, but apart from onos, that's the best aliens have against shotgunners.
I don't really have a point to this post other than to let off steam about people complaining about Focus. It ISN'T a nub upgrade (it's the most anti-nub thing in the game), it DOES take skill, and it's NOT lame. The point wasted on gaining focus is cancelled out by the marines point for taking armour, which most of them do for a JP/HA anyway (a focus skulk will generally fare worse against a L1 armour marine than an unfocused skulk will against a L0 armour marine, as it has to get in close, bite, dance away, and get in close again, whereas an unfocused skulk can just hold attack down).
No actually, i do have a point. What do the rest of you think? Is focus "nub", or does it require skill, just as a shotgun does?
P.S, this is NOT a balance thread. If you feel focus, shotguns, JPs etc are unbalanced, that's your right to think so, but bring it up in the beta or I&S forum, not this thread.
Comments
Or because you kinda... ya know... NEED weapons 1 to get the shotgun
Unless the build you play starts you with that <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I dont mind focus, as armor 1 easilly counters it. What I do mind is people who spawn camp without even attacking the chair/hive. Thats my only problem with combat.
The problem with focus lies not in how it performs when terms are fair (marine and skulk are aware of each other from a medium distance), but what happens when the marine is already at a disadvantage (cloaked skulk, distracted marine, spawn-camping, etc). When the marine is defenseless, he has no chance whatsoever to get his bearings before he is dead.
So, basically, it's a super-move with a learning curve. Sure, you have to have some degree of skill to use it, but that doesn't make it fun (particularly on the recieving end). "Focus newb!" is accurate only so far as to say you don't need it to succeed, just like you could say, "ffs! upgrades are for losers. leet players only use vanilla skulks!"
edit: I imagine we will see more complaints about the shotty when the hitbox lag goes away, and they become more consistant in their ownage.
Obviously.
Thus, it is quite cheap, and even if you suck at skulk movement, you are still bound to get some kills.
I've seen too many skulks running around, and you can tell so easily by the way they're moving that they have no idea what they're doing, and if you let them too close, even once, you're dead.
What takes skill is killing a focus skulk without having armor, and only having an lmg. That's kind of fun, and is oh so spiteful. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The other day I was playing 2 rines vs 1 me. I got leap, got focus, and my K-D ratio was about... 60 - 8.
This was 2 - 1. My only kills were when I got stuck on a wall or tried to cover too much distance. If you know how to do it, it just makes you so effective it's really really cheap.
Xeno is another thing that, while it can be super effective, also takes little skill to kill people with.
What DOES take skill is to leap into a group of 2-3 marines, kill one (without focus), and leap out alive.
edit:
Oh yes.. cloaked focus skulks... lie in wait and assuming they don't die after getting one upgrade, don't give you a chance to get any exp to grab armor or scanner sweep or anything. Pain in the ****. I find it much more skillful to use speed and ambushes without cloak or focus. Or at least without cloak.
Though, It's so funny when there's a cloaked skulk walking towards me, and I just one hit kill him with a shotgun.
Umm, Does focus make spit 3x slower too? I thought it did, so I don't understand why battle gorges would want it... Unless they want to pop out of a corner for a second. *shrugs*
edit:
Oh, the only valid reason I see for getting focus is to counter resupply.
Fade and lerk are so much more effective with focus... I personally think resupply should be taken out, focus should be taken out, and lerk's bite should be changed to 100 damage... Lerk bite shouldn't be so weak without focus... It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off.
However, it's not surprising. It seems to be a natural continuation of placing all of the skill burden on aliens while encouraging marines to camp and spam. As it is, if you're not switching between two or three abilities as an alien, you're a "nub." If you actually use your upgrades as an alien (like cloaking), you're a nub. I mean, come on, why should marines actually have to get the <i>counter</i> for it. If a marine has to get armor 1 and scan, they can't rush to the heavy weapons and pwn!
Spawn camp is the fastest way to win a game. Try defending your spawn point next time.
I dont see this logic particularly, it doesnt make you any faster, and if you try and rush people from distance you are going to die, the only benefit is that when/if you actually get close in, your first bite may/may not be fatal, if its not then focus is probably less effective than non-focus, as most skulks can get two bites in when on their first rush.
If it does get them, well its an upgrade well spent, while the rine obviously didnt spend their upgrade as well (level 1 armour first time people!) and as The Finch pointed out, are almost certainly rushing weapons... which means they deserve to die.
I ALWAYS counter with the shotgun argument. Shuts them up nicely.
Why don't they ever learn that armor 1 makes focus take 2 bites to kill?
Honestly, in the time between focused skulk bies, anything short of a knife can tear the skulk apart.
Spawn camp is the fastest way to win a game. Try defending your spawn point next time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Noo, killing the chair/hive wins the game. Read my post a little more closely.
Im not totally sure that statement is accurate. I usually go W1 then shottie then A1. Shottie helps me get more bang for the buck(shot) ((HA HA)).
Nah focus isnt totally nubish it takes skill its not the most anti nub skill to learn in the game though. I would have to go with fade or lerk for that argument.
Actually, I think they're both really cheap, and I'm normally the one using them. Neither feel cheap when you're using them, but I know they both are.
I am also normally not on the recieving end of a good xenoer, and if you happen to be the closest marine to me when I xeno, nothing will save you, for I always bite the closest once before I explode.
I've actually bite killed the guy before my xeno went off plenty of times...
At one point I xenoed, leaped, bit one guy (and he died), and the two next to him exploded with me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Look nothing is actually newb if it was then it would be unbeatable. "Newb tatic" stands for a 2 fingers jerk off could still get massive kills if he did it. Focus is very strong yes and if the skulks smart and lies in wait on say a ceiling and you come bounding around BAM! your dead but if you think about it you see a skulk and you've got shotgun BAM hes splattered its a bit like the fastest gun in the west idea just gotta be quick and the thing about xeno is its just a tatic (one I find dull) but thats not my choice the dev's have fiddled with it and hes happy so Its here to stay and we will find a way around it eventually.
Agreed
The rines thought this ware n00bish and l4m3 - i guess it's not. It takes quite a lot of skill to handle this in an effective manner.
Every teams has it's 'lame' weapons - as the others allways have countermessures:
Focus - A1 / Shotty
Cloaking - Scanner
Onos - HA
Jetpack - Webs
Xeno - HA or A3 ( A2 is enough i think :-) )
Webs - Welder
Silence - Motion Tracking
... etc ...
The real problem is most ppl just want to go and HA/JP - HMG/GL Rambo away the whole enemy team and won't take any points to counter these nmy-attacks.
Thats what makes you nub if you die from missing. The bite time isn't that slow, if you are any good you can land 3-4 consecutive focus bites without dying. Focus does rot your skill, because you get used to not having to do consecutive biting. Trust me, it happend to me.
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Uhhh, one HA vs one onos = dead HA. Even if it's an HA train, a skilled onos can still get at least one or two.
A JP/Shotty or HMG has a better chance against an onos.