Everyone needs to get his share of whine. Rines whine about focus and when that stops aliens start whining about gls. It will be here always and will never ever end.. Tho if we nuked the whole Tellus it would end ,) Everything needs skill yes, but about the focus dudes, if you want to go onos, you wont take it. But thats about it, same goes for cloaking <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> Awwww....
IMO definition of a "Nub skill" is basically a facet of the game that allows a new player to kill skilled players without using any skill on a re-occuring basis.
Considering the fact the new player has to get some kills, or be near a few kills before being able to select focus, which is not the most attractive of 1st choices as cloak is equally attractive (what rine take scan as 1st upgrade ?).
Also how many new players who take focus as 1st upgrade can get close to a skilled rine to use the focus ?
IMO this 'focus is a nub skill' whine is a huge helping of sour grapes from players that seem to have an attitude that if they get killed there was some unfair play, no matter how they die they whine.
<!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+Mar 16 2004, 09:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ Mar 16 2004, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus is just really annoying, and takes little skill, yet the double thing happens....
Umm, Does focus make spit 3x slower too? I thought it did, so I don't understand why battle gorges would want it... Unless they want to pop out of a corner for a second. *shrugs*
edit: Oh, the only valid reason I see for getting focus is to counter resupply. Fade and lerk are so much more effective with focus... I personally think resupply should be taken out, focus should be taken out, and lerk's bite should be changed to 100 damage... Lerk bite shouldn't be so weak without focus... It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you don't play this game much....do you? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus is a upgrade that gives you more damage.. at the cost of speed. Almost like the ha. If you want to get easier kills and do more damage then choose focus. The only reason why it is considered a noob upgrade is because of the ppl getting pwnd by skulks using focus in a early game. Why dont they just get armor 1 and stop whining.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ballisto+Mar 16 2004, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ballisto @ Mar 16 2004, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...]whine about awps, riot shields[...] <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Complaining about riot shields is valid (IMO) as they suck personal skill out of the game. It takes skill to bite someone, it takes skill to shoot someone, it takes no skill to stand around with the shield up. I get sick of stepping out and shooting only to have my HS blocked by some tard's shield.
Now, as for spawn camping (not a reply to Ballisto), if I have focus and there is 1 or more skulks chomping the cc, I take it upon myself to camp the spawn. ESPECIALLY if the marines have armor 0. I'm the best skulk for killing marines, and the worst for chomping the chair, plus all it takes is one marine to get a foothold and you can lose the advantage. I think it's a much better strategy than chomping the chair and dying when a marine jumps you.
On the other hand, I find playing a skulk for the rest of the game is not my cup of tea, nor a lurk, and I suck as a focus fade. So more often then not I turn down focus in favour of other upgrades/saving.
To me, there's nothign wrong with focus. A1 is all you need to ruin a focus skulk's day (my bro gets focus EVERY time he hits lvl2, and he's always bitching about A1).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Complaining about riot shields is valid (IMO) as they suck personal skill out of the game. It takes skill to bite someone, it takes skill to shoot someone, it takes no skill to stand around with the shield up. I get sick of stepping out and shooting only to have my HS blocked by some tard's shield<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well at least it takes some skill to blow someone carrying the shield away, they loose their ability to use any kind of primary weapons and rely on their pistol-skills. So well it might be easy to use the shild but it ain't easy to master an 2on1 attack and still be able to kill someone during the battle.
I guess you are one of the guys that prefer whining instead of trying to find a way to master these problems.
I usually use Focus/cloak and ambush tactics, which I think those are very well suit for if you have the skill to pull it off right. Most people just attack wiht out looking. Since I use it as a defensive tactic, I have to take the time to figure who the biggest threat is in a group of marines (figure out who has the GLs and HMGs) and hit them first and hope that I can get some support from the rest of the team (It is hard to get help since lieing in wait for a mraine to pass is not the most action packed way to play combat)
As for marines, I find that Weapons 1 followed by Armor 1 to be the most effective in countering focus. The reason I prefer weapons 1 over Armor 1 is because I try not to let the skulk get close enough to bite me in the first place. This also helps incase a player rushes Fade since you will have alittle more fire power (I have seen all too often where almost all the marines dies to a single skulk and he/she goes fade 30 sec into the game)
<!--QuoteBegin-Black Hawk 2982+Mar 17 2004, 05:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Black Hawk 2982 @ Mar 17 2004, 05:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I usually use Focus/cloak and ambush tactics, which I think those are very well suit for if you have the skill to pull it off right. Most people just attack wiht out looking. Since I use it as a defensive tactic, I have to take the time to figure who the biggest threat is in a group of marines (figure out who has the GLs and HMGs) and hit them first and hope that I can get some support from the rest of the team (It is hard to get help since lieing in wait for a mraine to pass is not the most action packed way to play combat)
As for marines, I find that Weapons 1 followed by Armor 1 to be the most effective in countering focus. The reason I prefer weapons 1 over Armor 1 is because I try not to let the skulk get close enough to bite me in the first place. This also helps incase a player rushes Fade since you will have alittle more fire power (I have seen all too often where almost all the marines dies to a single skulk and he/she goes fade 30 sec into the game) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cloakus sucks after they get 2-3 upgrades. Oh, by the way I go Motion tracking-Armor 1- resupply-weapons1-shotgun-level2 armor-jetpack-etc.
Even early game cloakus kiddies die <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-(SaZe)+Mar 16 2004, 10:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ((SaZe) @ Mar 16 2004, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When people whine about the focus I just go "would you like some cheese with that whine?" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And that's when everyone in the server points at your name on their screen and laughs right? Corny **** comebacks...
<!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+Mar 16 2004, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ Mar 16 2004, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What DOES take skill is to leap into a group of 2-3 marines, kill one (without focus), and leap out alive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> that really needs noskill marines
<!--QuoteBegin-Sizer+Mar 17 2004, 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer @ Mar 17 2004, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus isn't nub. Rushing to shotgun IS, however. If marines die to a focus skulk rush, chances are most of the team did not choose armor 1 first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or got parasited. I swear, one parasite renders that armour useless, or I'm one unlucky lad.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Uhhh, one HA vs one onos = dead HA. Even if it's an HA train, a skilled onos can still get at least one or two.
A JP/Shotty or HMG has a better chance against an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I often get to beat the crap out of onoses. I duck and fire away while they attempt to devour me. Never beats them devour is a surprise or "one go". Doesn't apply to the "If at first you don't succeed" rule.
But of course, I'd have time to cut it down to at least half health by emptying my bullets into that big thing before it got to reach me, but that's a mere detail...
<!--QuoteBegin-Charge+Mar 17 2004, 11:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Charge @ Mar 17 2004, 11:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+Mar 16 2004, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ Mar 16 2004, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What DOES take skill is to leap into a group of 2-3 marines, kill one (without focus), and leap out alive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> that really needs noskill marines <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And a keyboard that allows you to use that many buttons at once.
*sobs at his pathetic Logitech cordless keyboard for $12*
I get a "BEEP!" when I try to strafe, run, crouch, jump and leap. Actually, I get a beep by just running, strafing and trying to select a new weapon.
CheeseLork on the ClorfJoin Date: 2003-12-15Member: 24396Members, Constellation
hmm i think its ok if you use focus. However i dont cause its one point that i need for another skill. So... Focus is ok BUT...i don´t like it if people always use focus. If the use it in one game and use another skill in the next one its really ok for me.
Meh the only reason why people whine about Focus is that almost everyone takes it.... But then....Focus player whines about A1.... Then marine complains about Fade, then aliens complain about JPs, then marines complain about Lerks, then aliens complain about HA, etc etc etc.
I guess whining is the inevitable....<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Besides, all it takes is Armor1 or an ambush to take that skulk out or even luckier, a group of skulks :/
Not to mention they trade their AWP-ish bites for a real bad cooldown time. Heck, you deal less damage over time than a skulk without Focus
<!--QuoteBegin--redeye-+Mar 17 2004, 05:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-redeye- @ Mar 17 2004, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well at least it takes some skill to blow someone carrying the shield away, they loose their ability to use any kind of primary weapons and rely on their pistol-skills. So well it might be easy to use the shild but it ain't easy to master an 2on1 attack and still be able to kill someone during the battle.
I guess you are one of the guys that prefer whining instead of trying to find a way to master these problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmmm... refuting an aside, drawing insulting conclusions from nothing, and ommiting anything relevant to the thread, forum or even <b>site</b> in question. Do I smell flame bait? No wait, it's just the precurser for a thread derailment... if I decide to pick it up and run with it. Which I wont.
So uh... yeah... that um... fo-cus thingy... I say um... not lame. Yeah, that's it, not lame.
Glad to be of help. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited March 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-Salvation.r2+Mar 17 2004, 04:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Salvation.r2 @ Mar 17 2004, 04:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Psyke+Mar 16 2004, 09:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Psyke @ Mar 16 2004, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus is just really annoying, and takes little skill, yet the double thing happens....
Umm, Does focus make spit 3x slower too? I thought it did, so I don't understand why battle gorges would want it... Unless they want to pop out of a corner for a second. *shrugs*
edit: Oh, the only valid reason I see for getting focus is to counter resupply. Fade and lerk are so much more effective with focus... I personally think resupply should be taken out, focus should be taken out, and lerk's bite should be changed to 100 damage... Lerk bite shouldn't be so weak without focus... It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you don't play this game much....do you? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I play it quite a bit.
If you're saying that because of asking about the 3x spit thing, I was asking because it seems a lot of battle gorges like to use it, but I think it's kind of stupid, since it makes you even less efficient as a gorge.
If you're saying that cause of the second, have an open mind.
Lerks are supposed to be hit and run attack, and support units. With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine. If you land in front of the guy to just do it all at once, you get hurt quite seriously since you're no longer a hard target to hit.
Resupply is quite stupid though, it doesn't really reflect medspam in classic, and it happens too reliably.
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention they trade their AWP-ish bites for a real bad cooldown time. Heck, you deal less damage over time than a skulk without Focus <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> edit: realized a flaw in this bit:
Focus allows you to take out marines so quickly, and that makes it so good, and so liked, but it's cheap, and I realize that as I use it. If the marines are real close, you're at a slight disadvantage. You can take out one marine in two bites without, which is almost no time difference, but the advantage with focus comes in the travel time gained. It takes a fraction of a second to bite someone, and if the next rine isn't too close, by the time you get to him, you'll be able to bite again. This makes it insta kill without an obvious cool down, if you use it right. That's the magic behind it. The 3x cooldown just makes it so you are more suited to hit and run, and less to up close encounters... Which is what the skulk is MEANT for.
Also, Focus allows you to not worry about kickback.... at least until they have armor 1. And armor gets drained so fast it doesn't even really matter.
editpart2: Since Parasite only has organic damage, does it hurt armor?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah...
<!--QuoteBegin-Calantus+Mar 17 2004, 08:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Calantus @ Mar 17 2004, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's half of it.
The other half was that the lerk could barely put a dent in HA with spikes. With bite, they can at least get some oompfh into it, compared to spikes, which was really weak against HA, and nigh-on useless when he is getting welded and medpacked.
Any strategy that works is considered "nub" in most online games nowadays. People that are REALLY the n00bs jus tneed an excuse that they got freaking pwnt and dont want to admit it.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited March 2004
Neh, I give credit to people who can skulk really well, and then get focus, and are unstopable, but the people who get it, and obviously have no idea what they're doing with it, those are the nubs that shouldn't ever be able to kill you.
edit: I'm talking abuot the ones that I dodge their bite 2 or 3 times before being hit. Those are extreme noobs, and if my aim was a bit better, they would never kill me, despite them having focus, and me not having armor. (no armor is more of a challenge, lol)
Frankly I have an issue with superskulks in Combat at the moment... Not necessarily because they're overpowered, but they're too attractive an option IMHO and it hurts the alien game. As a skulk I can often get at least a 3:1 or 4:1 kill ratio; it's easy, nothing more than learning how to leap-bite and get away before you're killed. You can even pick off HAs since their teammates aren't usually welding. However superskulks are bad at killing the commchair and ultimately ineffective at ending the game once marines start getting fully upgraded. So when none of the aliens want to save up points for Fade or Onos and you have a team of L10 skulks who can kill the marines who venture out of the base, but can't do crap to overcome their CC welding, usually leading to a stalemate that the aliens can't really win...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for marines, I find that Weapons 1 followed by Armor 1 to be the most effective in countering focus. The reason I prefer weapons 1 over Armor 1 is because I try not to let the skulk get close enough to bite me in the first place. This also helps incase a player rushes Fade since you will have alittle more fire power (I have seen all too often where almost all the marines dies to a single skulk and he/she goes fade 30 sec into the game)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Weapon1 does not make it ANY easier to kill an unupgraded skulk. It takes 9 bullets with a level 0 lmg, it takes 9 bullets with a level 1 lmg. So, get armor 1, then get weapons 1 to get a shotgun/prepare for fades. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Sizer Mar 17 2004+ 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer Mar 17 2004 @ 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus isn't nub. Rushing to shotgun IS, however. If marines die to a focus skulk rush, chances are most of the team did not choose armor 1 first.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or got parasited. I swear, one parasite renders that armour useless, or I'm one unlucky lad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It takes 4 parasites to remove an armor level. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since Parasite only has organic damage, does it hurt armor? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Organic damage only means that it doesn't damage structures. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're saying that because of asking about the 3x spit thing, I was asking because it seems a lot of battle gorges like to use it, but I think it's kind of stupid, since it makes you even less efficient as a gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Regardless of your point, I just wanted to point out that focus doubles your damage and doubles the cooldown of the attack time. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lerk does 60 damage, it takes 150 damage to kill a level 0 marine. Therefore, it takes 3 passes.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Mar 17 2004, 12:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Mar 17 2004, 12:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're saying that because of asking about the 3x spit thing, I was asking because it seems a lot of battle gorges like to use it, but I think it's kind of stupid, since it makes you even less efficient as a gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Regardless of your point, I just wanted to point out that focus doubles your damage and doubles the cooldown of the attack time. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lerk does 60 damage, it takes 150 damage to kill a level 0 marine. Therefore, it takes 3 passes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was pretty sure it was 3x slower... not 2x... Unless I missed a changelog....
and i guess i must be used to level 1 armor... that takes 4, right?
learn to dodge and get resup first then get lvl 1 armour IF you havnt been bitten yet as the armour wont be added straight away if you already have 0 armour to my knowledge. Get the lvl 1 wep and maybe a shotty if you survive long enough and then get the lvl 1 armour. It all depends on how much xp the aliens get, if an above average skulk has leap/focus then your gona need lvl 1 armour before the the shotty imo.
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+Mar 17 2004, 08:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe @ Mar 17 2004, 08:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Calantus+Mar 17 2004, 08:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Calantus @ Mar 17 2004, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's half of it.
The other half was that the lerk could barely put a dent in HA with spikes. With bite, they can at least get some oompfh into it, compared to spikes, which was really weak against HA, and nigh-on useless when he is getting welded and medpacked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally, I would LOVE to have spikes back if only for killing HA. Biting HA as a lerk is almost always too risky to be worth it, unless they are alone and have a GL. You can always swoop through and do one focus bite, but that's more easily welded than 5 seconds worth of spikes from a vent. Don't get me wrong, I love the new lerk, but I have a hard time believing it's more effective vs HA.
NS aint just designed for co_ the lerk is support class and you dont attack a group of HA with your lerk to try and kill them with bite. People need to remember if you change stuff like that it changes in NS_ too.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This thread is really stupid in every way gj. Sure a fade with focus adren celerity cara and regen is a **** to kill but who the **** cares? CO sucks anyway. Besides you think the people who develop the game havn't played ever? They freaking know what focus and a shotgun can do. Thanks though. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I felt this needed to be said again <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the lerk thing with umbra in co they can easily take out rines nuff said.
Comments
Rines whine about focus and when that stops aliens start whining about gls.
It will be here always and will never ever end.. Tho if we nuked the whole Tellus it would end ,)
Everything needs skill yes, but about the focus dudes, if you want to go onos, you wont take it. But thats about it, same goes for cloaking <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Awwww....
Considering the fact the new player has to get some kills, or be near a few kills before being able to select focus, which is not the most attractive of 1st choices as cloak is equally attractive (what rine take scan as 1st upgrade ?).
Also how many new players who take focus as 1st upgrade can get close to a skilled rine to use the focus ?
IMO this 'focus is a nub skill' whine is a huge helping of sour grapes from players that seem to have an attitude that if they get killed there was some unfair play, no matter how they die they whine.
Umm, Does focus make spit 3x slower too? I thought it did, so I don't understand why battle gorges would want it... Unless they want to pop out of a corner for a second. *shrugs*
edit:
Oh, the only valid reason I see for getting focus is to counter resupply.
Fade and lerk are so much more effective with focus... I personally think resupply should be taken out, focus should be taken out, and lerk's bite should be changed to 100 damage... Lerk bite shouldn't be so weak without focus... It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you don't play this game much....do you? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Complaining about riot shields is valid (IMO) as they suck personal skill out of the game. It takes skill to bite someone, it takes skill to shoot someone, it takes no skill to stand around with the shield up. I get sick of stepping out and shooting only to have my HS blocked by some tard's shield.
Now, as for spawn camping (not a reply to Ballisto), if I have focus and there is 1 or more skulks chomping the cc, I take it upon myself to camp the spawn. ESPECIALLY if the marines have armor 0. I'm the best skulk for killing marines, and the worst for chomping the chair, plus all it takes is one marine to get a foothold and you can lose the advantage. I think it's a much better strategy than chomping the chair and dying when a marine jumps you.
On the other hand, I find playing a skulk for the rest of the game is not my cup of tea, nor a lurk, and I suck as a focus fade. So more often then not I turn down focus in favour of other upgrades/saving.
To me, there's nothign wrong with focus. A1 is all you need to ruin a focus skulk's day (my bro gets focus EVERY time he hits lvl2, and he's always bitching about A1).
Well at least it takes some skill to blow someone carrying the shield away, they loose their ability to use any kind of primary weapons and rely on their pistol-skills. So well it might be easy to use the shild but it ain't easy to master an 2on1 attack and still be able to kill someone during the battle.
I guess you are one of the guys that prefer whining instead of trying to find a way to master these problems.
As for marines, I find that Weapons 1 followed by Armor 1 to be the most effective in countering focus. The reason I prefer weapons 1 over Armor 1 is because I try not to let the skulk get close enough to bite me in the first place. This also helps incase a player rushes Fade since you will have alittle more fire power (I have seen all too often where almost all the marines dies to a single skulk and he/she goes fade 30 sec into the game)
As for marines, I find that Weapons 1 followed by Armor 1 to be the most effective in countering focus. The reason I prefer weapons 1 over Armor 1 is because I try not to let the skulk get close enough to bite me in the first place. This also helps incase a player rushes Fade since you will have alittle more fire power (I have seen all too often where almost all the marines dies to a single skulk and he/she goes fade 30 sec into the game) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cloakus sucks after they get 2-3 upgrades. Oh, by the way I go Motion tracking-Armor 1- resupply-weapons1-shotgun-level2 armor-jetpack-etc.
Even early game cloakus kiddies die <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And that's when everyone in the server points at your name on their screen and laughs right? Corny **** comebacks...
that really needs noskill marines
Or got parasited.
I swear, one parasite renders that armour useless, or I'm one unlucky lad.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Uhhh, one HA vs one onos = dead HA. Even if it's an HA train, a skilled onos can still get at least one or two.
A JP/Shotty or HMG has a better chance against an onos. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I often get to beat the crap out of onoses. I duck and fire away while they attempt to devour me.
Never beats them devour is a surprise or "one go". Doesn't apply to the "If at first you don't succeed" rule.
But of course, I'd have time to cut it down to at least half health by emptying my bullets into that big thing before it got to reach me, but that's a mere detail...
that really needs noskill marines <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And a keyboard that allows you to use that many buttons at once.
*sobs at his pathetic Logitech cordless keyboard for $12*
I get a "BEEP!" when I try to strafe, run, crouch, jump and leap.
Actually, I get a beep by just running, strafing and trying to select a new weapon.
But then....Focus player whines about A1....
Then marine complains about Fade, then aliens complain about JPs, then marines complain about Lerks, then aliens complain about HA, etc etc etc.
I guess whining is the inevitable....<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Besides, all it takes is Armor1 or an ambush to take that skulk out or even luckier, a group of skulks :/
Not to mention they trade their AWP-ish bites for a real bad cooldown time. Heck, you deal less damage over time than a skulk without Focus
I guess you are one of the guys that prefer whining instead of trying to find a way to master these problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm... refuting an aside, drawing insulting conclusions from nothing, and ommiting anything relevant to the thread, forum or even <b>site</b> in question. Do I smell flame bait? No wait, it's just the precurser for a thread derailment... if I decide to pick it up and run with it. Which I wont.
So uh... yeah... that um... fo-cus thingy... I say um... not lame. Yeah, that's it, not lame.
Glad to be of help. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Umm, Does focus make spit 3x slower too? I thought it did, so I don't understand why battle gorges would want it... Unless they want to pop out of a corner for a second. *shrugs*
edit:
Oh, the only valid reason I see for getting focus is to counter resupply.
Fade and lerk are so much more effective with focus... I personally think resupply should be taken out, focus should be taken out, and lerk's bite should be changed to 100 damage... Lerk bite shouldn't be so weak without focus... It doesn't let you do what a lerk should be doing, swooping and biting their heads off. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you don't play this game much....do you? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I play it quite a bit.
If you're saying that because of asking about the 3x spit thing, I was asking because it seems a lot of battle gorges like to use it, but I think it's kind of stupid, since it makes you even less efficient as a gorge.
If you're saying that cause of the second, have an open mind.
Lerks are supposed to be hit and run attack, and support units.
With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine.
If you land in front of the guy to just do it all at once, you get hurt quite seriously since you're no longer a hard target to hit.
Resupply is quite stupid though, it doesn't really reflect medspam in classic, and it happens too reliably.
<!--QuoteBegin-RaVe+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (RaVe)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not to mention they trade their AWP-ish bites for a real bad cooldown time. Heck, you deal less damage over time than a skulk without Focus <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
edit: realized a flaw in this bit:
Focus allows you to take out marines so quickly, and that makes it so good, and so liked, but it's cheap, and I realize that as I use it. If the marines are real close, you're at a slight disadvantage. You can take out one marine in two bites without, which is almost no time difference, but the advantage with focus comes in the travel time gained. It takes a fraction of a second to bite someone, and if the next rine isn't too close, by the time you get to him, you'll be able to bite again.
This makes it insta kill without an obvious cool down, if you use it right.
That's the magic behind it. The 3x cooldown just makes it so you are more suited to hit and run, and less to up close encounters... Which is what the skulk is MEANT for.
Also, Focus allows you to not worry about kickback.... at least until they have armor 1. And armor gets drained so fast it doesn't even really matter.
editpart2:
Since Parasite only has organic damage, does it hurt armor?
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah...
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that's half of it.
The other half was that the lerk could barely put a dent in HA with spikes. With bite, they can at least get some oompfh into it, compared to spikes, which was really weak against HA, and nigh-on useless when he is getting welded and medpacked.
edit: I'm talking abuot the ones that I dodge their bite 2 or 3 times before being hit.
Those are extreme noobs, and if my aim was a bit better, they would never kill me, despite them having focus, and me not having armor. (no armor is more of a challenge, lol)
Weapon1 does not make it ANY easier to kill an unupgraded skulk. It takes 9 bullets with a level 0 lmg, it takes 9 bullets with a level 1 lmg. So, get armor 1, then get weapons 1 to get a shotgun/prepare for fades.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Sizer Mar 17 2004+ 01:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sizer Mar 17 2004 @ 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Focus isn't nub. Rushing to shotgun IS, however. If marines die to a focus skulk rush, chances are most of the team did not choose armor 1 first.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or got parasited.
I swear, one parasite renders that armour useless, or I'm one unlucky lad.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes 4 parasites to remove an armor level.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since Parasite only has organic damage, does it hurt armor? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Organic damage only means that it doesn't damage structures.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're saying that because of asking about the 3x spit thing, I was asking because it seems a lot of battle gorges like to use it, but I think it's kind of stupid, since it makes you even less efficient as a gorge.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Regardless of your point, I just wanted to point out that focus doubles your damage and doubles the cooldown of the attack time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk does 60 damage, it takes 150 damage to kill a level 0 marine. Therefore, it takes 3 passes.
Regardless of your point, I just wanted to point out that focus doubles your damage and doubles the cooldown of the attack time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With such a weak bite, they need to make 4 passes in order to kill a 0 armor rine.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk does 60 damage, it takes 150 damage to kill a level 0 marine. Therefore, it takes 3 passes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was pretty sure it was 3x slower... not 2x... Unless I missed a changelog....
and i guess i must be used to level 1 armor... that takes 4, right?
I believe this is the contentious issue. Really, the lerk is essentially meant for support... it only has bite because people got attached to it in 1.04. I believe it was taken away in 2.0 (that was Flayra's stated intention anyway, and I do remember hearing that is what happened) and only put back in when people complained. So, yeah... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that's half of it.
The other half was that the lerk could barely put a dent in HA with spikes. With bite, they can at least get some oompfh into it, compared to spikes, which was really weak against HA, and nigh-on useless when he is getting welded and medpacked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I would LOVE to have spikes back if only for killing HA. Biting HA as a lerk is almost always too risky to be worth it, unless they are alone and have a GL. You can always swoop through and do one focus bite, but that's more easily welded than 5 seconds worth of spikes from a vent. Don't get me wrong, I love the new lerk, but I have a hard time believing it's more effective vs HA.
I felt this needed to be said again <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
As for the lerk thing with umbra in co they can easily take out rines nuff said.