<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Apr 30 2004, 01:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Apr 30 2004, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's funny, from the videos i saw i could've sworn they were pimping their 3d engine. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Eh... while I can see what you're saying, I think graphics had a large part to do with it, especially with the way they were touting ATI as the graphics card of choice. Remember the sequence in the water, and the floating banners? It was all about graphics. Valve isn't taking a "high road" about graphics... they're boasting about the graphics like the rest of the developers.
Oddly enough, I looked at some of the E3 pics from back when Half Life 2 first showed up there, and they do look quite similar to the pics just released. Thing is, I am not impressed by the quality of graphics on these screenshots anymore, when last year I thought they were the greatest. I'm not eagerly waiting the release of Half Life 2 anymore... it looks mundane now.
Another thing... why is Doom3 still in development? They said they were going to match Half Life 2's release date of Sept. 30, 2003... but where is the game?
Oh... and Tequila, don't get your hopes up too much about Half Life 2. Keep your expecatations low, and you won't be dissappointed. If Half Life 2 turns out to be a stinker, it'll ruin your day! If it doesn't, then we all win, but I fear it won't be as good as you and many other die-hard fans expect - especially with the reports of story downsizing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Apr 30 2004, 07:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Apr 30 2004, 07:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's funny, from the videos i saw i could've sworn they were pimping their 3d engine. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> considering it was a TECH demo, you wouldn't want to see spoilers of the story/gameplay aspect.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 29 2004, 11:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 29 2004, 11:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They look good when they are either all in a light spot or all in a dark spot, but if you put them in a location where the light and darkness meet rather than blend into eachother you don't get 2 sections of lighting apearing on the model, just one uniform field (probably the light field as I suspect that they detect the closest light sourse). That is why pixle by pixle lighting is better on a model then "pre calculated" lighting.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except that screen is one of the first they ever showed. It's pre-E3. Don't judge the game on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did either of you even look at the pic? The whole point of my post was that HL2 does <i>not</i> use precalculated lighting, as that pic clearly shows. HL2 uses vertex based lighting, it's not quite as good as per pixel lighting, but it's not precalculated, despite what DOOManiac might tell you to the contrary.
<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Apr 30 2004, 11:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Apr 30 2004, 11:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's funny, from the videos i saw i could've sworn they were pimping their 3d engine. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The main focus of the demo was on the application of the engine's features, the most advanced things they really talk about is dynamic terrain, bumpmapping and realistic water refraction (all of which, to some extent, have been done before). The largest focus was probably on the physics and their fairly realistic application to objects in the game.
For the lighting, you can check the dynamic lighting render video (bink format) that's floating around somewhere (It's on my computer, but I'm not sure where exactly I got it from, probably Fileplanet). It shows lighting bloom effects, reflection off of tiled surfaces and metallic surfaces (roof tiles and stuff, and some alien skin), and the detail and lighting that actually goes into the creatures (though, they might not self shadow, wasn't paying attention).
HL2 looks much better in motion than in screenshots, as do most other games, but for some reason the difference is more drastic for HL2 to me.
We should probably stop comparing the screenshots and gameplay to a really old video though...
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 30 2004, 02:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 30 2004, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Did either of you even look at the pic? The whole point of my post was that HL2 does <i>not</i> use precalculated lighting, as that pic clearly shows. HL2 uses vertex based lighting, it's not quite as good as per pixel lighting, but it's not precalculated, despite what DOOManiac might tell you to the contrary. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course. But like I said, you can see a newer view of Dr Kleiner's lab from last E3. It looks a lot sharper, geometry and lighting wise, and those orange pipe things are circular with lovely shader effects making them bubble.
Medhead, if you think HL2 looks mundane then you're living in a dreamworld. And that's just graphics talking. Throw in the physics, the story, the gameplay... even the style Valve invest into their games... It all adds up to something a <i>little</i> bit better than mediocre.
HL2 rocking is one of those constants, like the sun rising every day. It <b>is</b> going to happen.
Oh, and I know where you got those reports of story story downsizing from. Fragmaster's arrogant, insufferable power-abusing rant. Supposed 'feature cutting'. Guess what? Originally, in HL you were going to pilot a helicopter and there was going to be a grunt with a minigun. What happened to them? Cut. Did HL suffer because of it? No. Has HL2 had any features we were advertised cut? Physics. Check. Saucy water. Check. Realistic characters. Check. All present and accounted for.
I'm sick of preaching the merits of HL2 to the masses, who are mostly ignorant - very few are basing their opinion on something valid such as a dislike of the genre.
All I know is, Valve have give me 6 years of gaming excellence with HL, and they look set to at least equal that impressive record with HL2.
<!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Apr 30 2004--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Apr 30 2004)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Medhead, if you think HL2 looks mundane then you're living in a dreamworld. And that's just graphics talking. Throw in the physics, the story, the gameplay... even the style Valve invest into their games... It all adds up to something a little bit better than mediocre.
HL2 rocking is one of those constants, like the sun rising every day. It is going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, the sun will eventually not rise and fall every day...evenutally it'll puff up like a balloon, attaining a red giant status and Earth will be sitting in its corona as it incinerates us. ...Granted that's 5 billion years from now...but, thought you might want to be aware of it.
I think Medhead inherently hates all games that...aren't something. He's got some posts in a Stalker thread, but rest assured that there's no game he can possibly like...ever. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
personally, im not really as excited as i once was for hl2, not only will i not be able to play it, but UT2004 looks great is fun and will run on my comp
and stalker should satisfy my storyline crave, even if it is a lil cliched
oh, im a huge halflife fan, and ill be gettin hl2, just maybe not when it comes out, if its not up to par
Actually crono that looks strikingly similar to the trainyard in Postal 2. A lot of the details are just in texture. You can't brag about how much better visually HL2 is compared to other games now, It's pretty much been equalled. It has to go off of gameplay now, which is absent until the game actually comes out. I'm not avidly looking forward to this title any more than other games. Right now it comes a close third after Stalker and B&W 2.
<!--QuoteBegin-UltimaGecko+Apr 30 2004, 03:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UltimaGecko @ Apr 30 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know, the sun will eventually not rise and fall every day...evenutally it'll puff up like a balloon, attaining a red giant status and Earth will be sitting in its corona as it incinerates us. ...Granted that's 5 billion years from now...but, thought you might want to be aware of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I realise this. Thankfully, HL2 will be out before 5 billion years have passed. Touch wood.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 03:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 03:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually crono that looks strikingly similar to the trainyard in Postal 2. A lot of the details are just in texture. You can't brag about how much better visually HL2 is compared to other games now, It's pretty much been equalled. It has to go off of gameplay now, which is absent until the game actually comes out. I'm not avidly looking forward to this title any more than other games. Right now it comes a close third after Stalker and B&W 2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I can see where you're coming from, but I was just comparing that to Far Cry and Painkiller.
I don't think the Postal 2 trainyard looked much like that, but then again I didn't play Postal 2 that much. It kinda blew gameplay-wise.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 04:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 04:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can assure you that the majority of both Far Cry and Painkiller looked vastly superior to at least that screenshot in a technical aspect. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But then technically HL2's character system blows away every game. Realistic eyes, accurate phoneme pronounciation... nothing can compare. Water effects are also sublime, but that's par for the course these days.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5788+Apr 30 2004, 04:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5788 @ Apr 30 2004, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Painkiller didn't have that many advanced rendering features, it's just able to push out a lot more pollies.
Far Cry's not a very efficient engine. On my Radeon 9200, it looks like utter garbage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're arguing efficiency when we're talking about a game that no one has ever seen running completely on a pc. right. That make sense. You don't know how well HL2 will run on any pc, though hopefully it'll run decent on a variety of machines, like they said. Then again, Valve isn't one for keeping promises, so I'm keeping my expectations low.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+May 1 2004, 12:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ May 1 2004, 12:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crono5788+Apr 30 2004, 04:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5788 @ Apr 30 2004, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Painkiller didn't have that many advanced rendering features, it's just able to push out a lot more pollies.
Far Cry's not a very efficient engine. On my Radeon 9200, it looks like utter garbage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're arguing efficiency when we're talking about a game that no one has ever seen running completely on a pc. right. That make sense. You don't know how well HL2 will run on any pc, though hopefully it'll run decent on a variety of machines, like they said. Then again, Valve isn't one for keeping promises, so I'm keeping my expectations low. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> they keep promises: just not release date promises...
<!--QuoteBegin-enf0rcer+Apr 30 2004, 08:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (enf0rcer @ Apr 30 2004, 08:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so what's up with the lighting again? The game looks great bit someone has to nitpick <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .. someone explain this to me.
There are other small glitches in the pics but this are the most important. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> for the first -- HL2 will have dynamic cameras, so it wouldn't surprise me if the character on the shot was in a room with a camera hooked up to that monitor, with a independant light source on the character. that, or it's a screenshot from the game/renderer. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the second -- it could very well be hitting the rotor, but i agree that it DOES look abit ascew... possibly a momentary hitbox glitch.... possibly,
There are other small glitches in the pics but this are the most important. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> for the first -- HL2 will have dynamic cameras, so it wouldn't surprise me if the character on the shot was in a room with a camera hooked up to that monitor, with a independant light source on the character. that, or it's a screenshot from the game/renderer. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the second -- it could very well be hitting the rotor, but i agree that it DOES look abit ascew... possibly a momentary hitbox glitch.... possibly, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For the first: Yes, that is a bit screwy, but thats because of DOOMs big problem with it: Prerendered lighting. Then again, VALVe has confirmed that its lighting will be fully dynamic, they just are trying to make it playable with it on(which is hard).
For the second: Ever shoot something moving that sparks? I got to shoot a similar metal once, while it was moving much the same way- it isn't hitting the rotor, it hit the actual copter, just the sparks are still coming off(usually they don't stop until about 3-5 seconds later).
The graphics are certainly passable, but one thing definitely needs improving and that is the vegetation sprites/billboards because ATM they really look like cack.
As long as you get rid of similar ... distractions, its ok to have relatively low-poly scenes.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-venomus+Apr 30 2004, 07:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (venomus @ Apr 30 2004, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The graphics are certainly passable, but one thing definitely needs improving and that is the vegetation sprites/billboards because ATM they really look like cack.
As long as you get rid of similar ... distractions, its ok to have relatively low-poly scenes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> THANK YOU! See, what I found funny, was some people were saying "That Jail scene looked too boxy". I wonder if they've ever seen a cell IRL...
Tequila, are we talking about the same game? Half Life? <b>Story?</b> "Alien portal opened, government covers it up, recruits remaining survivor for undercover work instead of killing him" - that's not very original!
Painkiller's demo screenshots wowed me <b>much</b> more than these new Half Life screenshots. These new ones are bland. Half Life 2 doesn't look like it's using a new engine - it looks like Half Life's modified Quake engine with better player models.
UltimateGecko, I said I didn't like the <b>storyline</b> of STALKER... not the graphics. But pardon me for having an opinion that differs from yours!
Quanaut, I too think a lot of the scenes look overly boxy because there is very little sign of wear and tear on the environments. Sure, there are textures with detail depicting wear, but the polygons themselves don't actually mirror that damage. One of the new pictures (the outdoors image with the gas mask guys, the horrible grass sprites and the three or so buildings on the right side of the screen), shows what I'm getting at. The houses have textures of windows on them, but there are no outcroppings of window sills or individual window panes.
Do we know for certain that the actual game will have better quality models? I'm not sure, and I really don't want to take Valve's word for it, because of their track record. It took them three years and multiple developers to put bots and new models onto Counter-Strike. It's taken them four to get nowhere on Team Fortress 2. I'm really not certain they're as great as some may assume, so I won't place my expectatations very high: I think I'll place my expectations for this game right around the "Duke Nukem: Forever" area. Will this game play well? Nobody knows - not you, not me, not anyone. Do we know if the graphics are going to be good? No, we don't. These graphics are not any better than the game currently being sold, such as Unreal Tournament 2004, Call of Duty, and Painkiller, among others.
Look, I can take bad graphics if it plays well... I don't *really* need a story, either (but it certainly helps). Good grief, I'm still playing Half Life mods, so it proves I'm not graphics oriented. But while Half Life had gameplay that was immersive, the actual story line itself wasn't original, or all that great. There were many parts of that game that were positively boring! So when everyone here rabbles on about the "great" storyline of Half Life, I cringe, because I don't want another retread. But we don't know the storyline in this sequel, so all we have are the graphics to go on (and the "tech" demos that have been rendered obsolete both with the source code theft, and games that currently use the Havoc engine). What concrete facts I have right now are the screenshots in front of me. That's it. And they don't impress. What speculation I have is Fragmaster's goodbye post, the news of the source code theft, and some Daikatana-esque promises of greatness.
So why then is judging a book by its cover bad in this instance, when all I have to go on <b>is</b> the cover?
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 30 2004, 10:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 30 2004, 10:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Painkiller's demo screenshots wowed me <b>much</b> more than these new Half Life screenshots. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I suggest your remove the forks lodged in your eyes.
Painkiller, graphically, was friggen cool. The physics were at least as good as HL2's, just not implemented into swinging traps. You had to make the traps yourself, which was awesome. It's a beautiful game. Anyone who says otherwise has either not played it, or played it while going "I bet HL2 is gonna look better" in which case you have a natural bias against anything.
But Tequila is right, from what has been shown the faces are going to be very cool, one of the only things that HL2 stands out in graphically now in my eyes.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 30 2004, 08:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 30 2004, 08:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tequila, are we talking about the same game? Half Life? <b>Story?</b> "Alien portal opened, government covers it up, recruits remaining survivor for undercover work instead of killing him" - that's not very original!
Painkiller's demo screenshots wowed me <b>much</b> more than these new Half Life screenshots. These new ones are bland. Half Life 2 doesn't look like it's using a new engine - it looks like Half Life's modified Quake engine with better player models.
UltimateGecko, I said I didn't like the <b>storyline</b> of STALKER... not the graphics. But pardon me for having an opinion that differs from yours!
Quanaut, I too think a lot of the scenes look overly boxy because there is very little sign of wear and tear on the environments. Sure, there are textures with detail depicting wear, but the polygons themselves don't actually mirror that damage. One of the new pictures (the outdoors image with the gas mask guys, the horrible grass sprites and the three or so buildings on the right side of the screen), shows what I'm getting at. The houses have textures of windows on them, but there are no outcroppings of window sills or individual window panes.
Do we know for certain that the actual game will have better quality models? I'm not sure, and I really don't want to take Valve's word for it, because of their track record. It took them three years and multiple developers to put bots and new models onto Counter-Strike. It's taken them four to get nowhere on Team Fortress 2. I'm really not certain they're as great as some may assume, so I won't place my expectatations very high: I think I'll place my expectations for this game right around the "Duke Nukem: Forever" area. Will this game play well? Nobody knows - not you, not me, not anyone. Do we know if the graphics are going to be good? No, we don't. These graphics are not any better than the game currently being sold, such as Unreal Tournament 2004, Call of Duty, and Painkiller, among others.
Look, I can take bad graphics if it plays well... I don't *really* need a story, either (but it certainly helps). Good grief, I'm still playing Half Life mods, so it proves I'm not graphics oriented. But while Half Life had gameplay that was immersive, the actual story line itself wasn't original, or all that great. There were many parts of that game that were positively boring! So when everyone here rabbles on about the "great" storyline of Half Life, I cringe, because I don't want another retread. But we don't know the storyline in this sequel, so all we have are the graphics to go on (and the "tech" demos that have been rendered obsolete both with the source code theft, and games that currently use the Havoc engine). What concrete facts I have right now are the screenshots in front of me. That's it. And they don't impress. What speculation I have is Fragmaster's goodbye post, the news of the source code theft, and some Daikatana-esque promises of greatness.
So why then is judging a book by its cover bad in this instance, when all I have to go on <b>is</b> the cover?
Okay, rant over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Woah woah woah here. I've been looking for anything that had a storyline like Half-Life's, even just relatively. Honestly here, can you point me in the direction of something?
And if you can't, it proves my points: Its storyline was original, and frankly, it kicked ****. Another thing is, CS:CZ wasn't devved by VALVe. Even when it started out, it got devved by someone else. So really, that isn't VALVe's problem, even though it gets their moniker.
Also- I don't think you were looking too hard on those screenshots. Those aren't just textures of windows. Those are actual windows. Albiet no window sills, just the hole for the window, and the window itself, but it sure as hell has a indentation. Also, the ground/walls/cielings DO have wear and tear, it just uses the bump-mapping instead of whatever else they would use(look at the ground in the checker'd rooms, and you'll see places where someone maybe spilled a cleaner that started eating through it or something).
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Apr 30 2004, 11:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Apr 30 2004, 11:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a beautiful game. Anyone who says otherwise has either not played it, or played it while going "I bet HL2 is gonna look better" in which case you have a natural bias against anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree.
It doesn't appear that way on my screen, Quanaut. They look like textures. My thoughts are confirmed with the original screens shown by Valve back in September, but things may have changed since then.
And Half Life was immersive. The actual storyline (I already posted it) isn't all that original. But the way it was presented was very immersive, which made the game popular. Deus Ex and System Shock were similar, although I don't think Deus Ex did it as well as System Shock 2. All three games had their weak points, including Half Life (after I got out of the Lambda lab, things went downhill).
As for the Valve developer comment, I think you're giving Valve too much of a break. They choose and command the team developing the game. It's not a "hands off" approach, as shown in their frequent swapping of development teams. I think Valve has a lot more influence than you think.
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<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suggest your remove the forks lodged in your eyes.
I'm being honest here. The Painkiller screenshots posted by DOOM a while back wowed me more <b>than these Half Life 2 screenshots do <i>now.</i></b> I was very excited about Half Life 2 when it was originally introduced, but I don't care anymore. The excitement has waned, and it's "just another game" for me now.
Comments
Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh... while I can see what you're saying, I think graphics had a large part to do with it, especially with the way they were touting ATI as the graphics card of choice. Remember the sequence in the water, and the floating banners? It was all about graphics. Valve isn't taking a "high road" about graphics... they're boasting about the graphics like the rest of the developers.
Oddly enough, I looked at some of the E3 pics from back when Half Life 2 first showed up there, and they do look quite similar to the pics just released. Thing is, I am not impressed by the quality of graphics on these screenshots anymore, when last year I thought they were the greatest. I'm not eagerly waiting the release of Half Life 2 anymore... it looks mundane now.
Another thing... why is Doom3 still in development? They said they were going to match Half Life 2's release date of Sept. 30, 2003... but where is the game?
Oh... and Tequila, don't get your hopes up too much about Half Life 2. Keep your expecatations low, and you won't be dissappointed. If Half Life 2 turns out to be a stinker, it'll ruin your day! If it doesn't, then we all win, but I fear it won't be as good as you and many other die-hard fans expect - especially with the reports of story downsizing.
i need a new computer -.-
Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
considering it was a TECH demo, you wouldn't want to see spoilers of the story/gameplay aspect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Except that screen is one of the first they ever showed. It's pre-E3. Don't judge the game on it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did either of you even look at the pic? The whole point of my post was that HL2 does <i>not</i> use precalculated lighting, as that pic clearly shows. HL2 uses vertex based lighting, it's not quite as good as per pixel lighting, but it's not precalculated, despite what DOOManiac might tell you to the contrary.
Not really, they were talking mainly about the Physics, Expressions and AI among other things. (Like the graphics) but the Graphics weren't the main thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The main focus of the demo was on the application of the engine's features, the most advanced things they really talk about is dynamic terrain, bumpmapping and realistic water refraction (all of which, to some extent, have been done before). The largest focus was probably on the physics and their fairly realistic application to objects in the game.
For the lighting, you can check the dynamic lighting render video (bink format) that's floating around somewhere (It's on my computer, but I'm not sure where exactly I got it from, probably Fileplanet). It shows lighting bloom effects, reflection off of tiled surfaces and metallic surfaces (roof tiles and stuff, and some alien skin), and the detail and lighting that actually goes into the creatures (though, they might not self shadow, wasn't paying attention).
HL2 looks much better in motion than in screenshots, as do most other games, but for some reason the difference is more drastic for HL2 to me.
We should probably stop comparing the screenshots and gameplay to a really old video though...
Of course. But like I said, you can see a newer view of Dr Kleiner's lab from last E3. It looks a lot sharper, geometry and lighting wise, and those orange pipe things are circular with lovely shader effects making them bubble.
Medhead, if you think HL2 looks mundane then you're living in a dreamworld. And that's just graphics talking. Throw in the physics, the story, the gameplay... even the style Valve invest into their games... It all adds up to something a <i>little</i> bit better than mediocre.
HL2 rocking is one of those constants, like the sun rising every day. It <b>is</b> going to happen.
Oh, and I know where you got those reports of story story downsizing from. Fragmaster's arrogant, insufferable power-abusing rant. Supposed 'feature cutting'. Guess what? Originally, in HL you were going to pilot a helicopter and there was going to be a grunt with a minigun. What happened to them? Cut. Did HL suffer because of it? No. Has HL2 had any features we were advertised cut? Physics. Check. Saucy water. Check. Realistic characters. Check. All present and accounted for.
I'm sick of preaching the merits of HL2 to the masses, who are mostly ignorant - very few are basing their opinion on something valid such as a dislike of the genre.
All I know is, Valve have give me 6 years of gaming excellence with HL, and they look set to at least equal that impressive record with HL2.
<img src='http://images.3dgamers.com/screenimages/games/halflife2/05.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />0
HL2 rocking is one of those constants, like the sun rising every day. It is going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, the sun will eventually not rise and fall every day...evenutally it'll puff up like a balloon, attaining a red giant status and Earth will be sitting in its corona as it incinerates us.
...Granted that's 5 billion years from now...but, thought you might want to be aware of it.
I think Medhead inherently hates all games that...aren't something. He's got some posts in a Stalker thread, but rest assured that there's no game he can possibly like...ever. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and stalker should satisfy my storyline crave, even if it is a lil cliched
oh, im a huge halflife fan, and ill be gettin hl2, just maybe not when it comes out, if its not up to par
...Granted that's 5 billion years from now...but, thought you might want to be aware of it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I realise this. Thankfully, HL2 will be out before 5 billion years have passed. Touch wood.
I can see where you're coming from, but I was just comparing that to Far Cry and Painkiller.
I don't think the Postal 2 trainyard looked much like that, but then again I didn't play Postal 2 that much. It kinda blew gameplay-wise.
But it did look nice.
Far Cry's not a very efficient engine. On my Radeon 9200, it looks like utter garbage.
But then technically HL2's character system blows away every game. Realistic eyes, accurate phoneme pronounciation... nothing can compare. Water effects are also sublime, but that's par for the course these days.
Far Cry's not a very efficient engine. On my Radeon 9200, it looks like utter garbage. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're arguing efficiency when we're talking about a game that no one has ever seen running completely on a pc. right. That make sense. You don't know how well HL2 will run on any pc, though hopefully it'll run decent on a variety of machines, like they said. Then again, Valve isn't one for keeping promises, so I'm keeping my expectations low.
I merely said Far Cry <b>looks like garbage</b> because it's engine can't play the way it was meant to on my comp.
Far Cry's not a very efficient engine. On my Radeon 9200, it looks like utter garbage. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're arguing efficiency when we're talking about a game that no one has ever seen running completely on a pc. right. That make sense. You don't know how well HL2 will run on any pc, though hopefully it'll run decent on a variety of machines, like they said. Then again, Valve isn't one for keeping promises, so I'm keeping my expectations low. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
they keep promises: just not release date promises...
<img src='http://enforcer.onestop.net/light.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
and what about the poly hit detection...
<img src='http://enforcer.onestop.net/rotor.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
is the rotor being struck in that pic?
There are other small glitches in the pics but this are the most important. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
for the first -- HL2 will have dynamic cameras, so it wouldn't surprise me if the character on the shot was in a room with a camera hooked up to that monitor, with a independant light source on the character. that, or it's a screenshot from the game/renderer. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the second -- it could very well be hitting the rotor, but i agree that it DOES look abit ascew... possibly a momentary hitbox glitch.... possibly,
I said it <b>looked like garbage.</b>
EDIT: Someone wanted to a screenshot of what it looked like for me.
I tried to take it in the place that looked best in the whole demo.
<img src='http://enforcer.onestop.net/light.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
and what about the poly hit detection...
<img src='http://enforcer.onestop.net/rotor.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
is the rotor being struck in that pic?
There are other small glitches in the pics but this are the most important. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for the first -- HL2 will have dynamic cameras, so it wouldn't surprise me if the character on the shot was in a room with a camera hooked up to that monitor, with a independant light source on the character. that, or it's a screenshot from the game/renderer. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the second -- it could very well be hitting the rotor, but i agree that it DOES look abit ascew... possibly a momentary hitbox glitch.... possibly, <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the first: Yes, that is a bit screwy, but thats because of DOOMs big problem with it: Prerendered lighting. Then again, VALVe has confirmed that its lighting will be fully dynamic, they just are trying to make it playable with it on(which is hard).
For the second: Ever shoot something moving that sparks? I got to shoot a similar metal once, while it was moving much the same way- it isn't hitting the rotor, it hit the actual copter, just the sparks are still coming off(usually they don't stop until about 3-5 seconds later).
As long as you get rid of similar ... distractions, its ok to have relatively low-poly scenes.
As long as you get rid of similar ... distractions, its ok to have relatively low-poly scenes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
THANK YOU! See, what I found funny, was some people were saying "That Jail scene looked too boxy". I wonder if they've ever seen a cell IRL...
Painkiller's demo screenshots wowed me <b>much</b> more than these new Half Life screenshots. These new ones are bland. Half Life 2 doesn't look like it's using a new engine - it looks like Half Life's modified Quake engine with better player models.
UltimateGecko, I said I didn't like the <b>storyline</b> of STALKER... not the graphics. But pardon me for having an opinion that differs from yours!
Quanaut, I too think a lot of the scenes look overly boxy because there is very little sign of wear and tear on the environments. Sure, there are textures with detail depicting wear, but the polygons themselves don't actually mirror that damage. One of the new pictures (the outdoors image with the gas mask guys, the horrible grass sprites and the three or so buildings on the right side of the screen), shows what I'm getting at. The houses have textures of windows on them, but there are no outcroppings of window sills or individual window panes.
Do we know for certain that the actual game will have better quality models? I'm not sure, and I really don't want to take Valve's word for it, because of their track record. It took them three years and multiple developers to put bots and new models onto Counter-Strike. It's taken them four to get nowhere on Team Fortress 2. I'm really not certain they're as great as some may assume, so I won't place my expectatations very high: I think I'll place my expectations for this game right around the "Duke Nukem: Forever" area. Will this game play well? Nobody knows - not you, not me, not anyone. Do we know if the graphics are going to be good? No, we don't. These graphics are not any better than the game currently being sold, such as Unreal Tournament 2004, Call of Duty, and Painkiller, among others.
Look, I can take bad graphics if it plays well... I don't *really* need a story, either (but it certainly helps). Good grief, I'm still playing Half Life mods, so it proves I'm not graphics oriented. But while Half Life had gameplay that was immersive, the actual story line itself wasn't original, or all that great. There were many parts of that game that were positively boring! So when everyone here rabbles on about the "great" storyline of Half Life, I cringe, because I don't want another retread. But we don't know the storyline in this sequel, so all we have are the graphics to go on (and the "tech" demos that have been rendered obsolete both with the source code theft, and games that currently use the Havoc engine). What concrete facts I have right now are the screenshots in front of me. That's it. And they don't impress. What speculation I have is Fragmaster's goodbye post, the news of the source code theft, and some Daikatana-esque promises of greatness.
So why then is judging a book by its cover bad in this instance, when all I have to go on <b>is</b> the cover?
Okay, rant over.
I suggest your remove the forks lodged in your eyes.
And yes, you're excused. :P
But Tequila is right, from what has been shown the faces are going to be very cool, one of the only things that HL2 stands out in graphically now in my eyes.
Painkiller's demo screenshots wowed me <b>much</b> more than these new Half Life screenshots. These new ones are bland. Half Life 2 doesn't look like it's using a new engine - it looks like Half Life's modified Quake engine with better player models.
UltimateGecko, I said I didn't like the <b>storyline</b> of STALKER... not the graphics. But pardon me for having an opinion that differs from yours!
Quanaut, I too think a lot of the scenes look overly boxy because there is very little sign of wear and tear on the environments. Sure, there are textures with detail depicting wear, but the polygons themselves don't actually mirror that damage. One of the new pictures (the outdoors image with the gas mask guys, the horrible grass sprites and the three or so buildings on the right side of the screen), shows what I'm getting at. The houses have textures of windows on them, but there are no outcroppings of window sills or individual window panes.
Do we know for certain that the actual game will have better quality models? I'm not sure, and I really don't want to take Valve's word for it, because of their track record. It took them three years and multiple developers to put bots and new models onto Counter-Strike. It's taken them four to get nowhere on Team Fortress 2. I'm really not certain they're as great as some may assume, so I won't place my expectatations very high: I think I'll place my expectations for this game right around the "Duke Nukem: Forever" area. Will this game play well? Nobody knows - not you, not me, not anyone. Do we know if the graphics are going to be good? No, we don't. These graphics are not any better than the game currently being sold, such as Unreal Tournament 2004, Call of Duty, and Painkiller, among others.
Look, I can take bad graphics if it plays well... I don't *really* need a story, either (but it certainly helps). Good grief, I'm still playing Half Life mods, so it proves I'm not graphics oriented. But while Half Life had gameplay that was immersive, the actual story line itself wasn't original, or all that great. There were many parts of that game that were positively boring! So when everyone here rabbles on about the "great" storyline of Half Life, I cringe, because I don't want another retread. But we don't know the storyline in this sequel, so all we have are the graphics to go on (and the "tech" demos that have been rendered obsolete both with the source code theft, and games that currently use the Havoc engine). What concrete facts I have right now are the screenshots in front of me. That's it. And they don't impress. What speculation I have is Fragmaster's goodbye post, the news of the source code theft, and some Daikatana-esque promises of greatness.
So why then is judging a book by its cover bad in this instance, when all I have to go on <b>is</b> the cover?
Okay, rant over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woah woah woah here. I've been looking for anything that had a storyline like Half-Life's, even just relatively. Honestly here, can you point me in the direction of something?
And if you can't, it proves my points: Its storyline was original, and frankly, it kicked ****. Another thing is, CS:CZ wasn't devved by VALVe. Even when it started out, it got devved by someone else. So really, that isn't VALVe's problem, even though it gets their moniker.
Also- I don't think you were looking too hard on those screenshots. Those aren't just textures of windows. Those are actual windows. Albiet no window sills, just the hole for the window, and the window itself, but it sure as hell has a indentation. Also, the ground/walls/cielings DO have wear and tear, it just uses the bump-mapping instead of whatever else they would use(look at the ground in the checker'd rooms, and you'll see places where someone maybe spilled a cleaner that started eating through it or something).
I agree.
And Half Life was immersive. The actual storyline (I already posted it) isn't all that original. But the way it was presented was very immersive, which made the game popular. Deus Ex and System Shock were similar, although I don't think Deus Ex did it as well as System Shock 2. All three games had their weak points, including Half Life (after I got out of the Lambda lab, things went downhill).
As for the Valve developer comment, I think you're giving Valve too much of a break. They choose and command the team developing the game. It's not a "hands off" approach, as shown in their frequent swapping of development teams. I think Valve has a lot more influence than you think.
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<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I suggest your remove the forks lodged in your eyes.
And yes, you're excused. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm being honest here. The Painkiller screenshots posted by DOOM a while back wowed me more <b>than these Half Life 2 screenshots do <i>now.</i></b> I was very excited about Half Life 2 when it was originally introduced, but I don't care anymore. The excitement has waned, and it's "just another game" for me now.