<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5788+May 1 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5788 @ May 1 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The E3 Strider demo shows that windows are breakable, so I'm relatively sure that's either A) a really clever effect, or B) actual windows. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or, only the windows that are to be broken are going to be breakable?
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 30 2004, 11:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 30 2004, 11:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crono5788+May 1 2004, 12:55 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5788 @ May 1 2004, 12:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The E3 Strider demo shows that windows are breakable, so I'm relatively sure that's either A) a really clever effect, or B) actual windows. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Or, only the windows that are to be broken are going to be breakable? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> From what VALVe is claiming, that sort of thing'll be dynamic.
Didn't Valve claim the AI in their demo was unscripted, when it was shown not to be? Or did I get caught in the rumor mill?
Another thing that really troubles me is how painfully similar everything looks so far in HL2. I pray to whatever there is to pray to that not everything is going to be dusky gray with black specks and populated by combine soldiers.
Well... the AI can react to different situations well, but the events that go on in the game are scripted, yet elastic enough to allow change without breaking the scene.
Chrono, I certainly hope you're right. We'll have to see.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Didn't Valve claim the AI in their demo was unscripted, when it was shown not to be? Or did I get caught in the rumor mill?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They said at some point, something like "this is all unscripted" in the barricade demo at e3, reffering to the way NPCs took cover behind things and moved with you.
Now, wheter you take that as VALVe sneakily distorting the truth by implying that the whole thing and all the demos where totally unscripted or the hype machine/rumor mill getting the wrong idea is up to you.
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 30 2004, 10:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 30 2004, 10:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tequila, are we talking about the same game? Half Life? <b>Story?</b> "Alien portal opened, government covers it up, recruits remaining survivor for undercover work instead of killing him" - that's not very original! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Er, no son. I'm talking about Half-Life <i>2</i>'s story. With the technology making it viable, you can sure as hell bet it'll be a damn sight more involving than HL's cliched but lovable narrative.
Just give the game a try when it comes out, and we'll see how that droning tune changes <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: About the windows; they'll just be a texture that is defined to break under damage through Valve's material system. You could make a rubbish box map coated in nothing but that texture, and they'd still break.
And some of the AI in the E3 demos was scripted, but only because some of it wasn't ready and some things they wanted to happen in a certain way to maximise the 'Wow' factor (for instance, the Combine soldier was hinted to stand under the path of the falling dumpster just to make it look snazzy, in the full game chances are he'll stay the hell away).
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Have you ever looked at food you see in commercials? Like that big fat juicy quarter pounder with cheese with the perfectly shaped bun and immaculately stacked toppings? Do you know how they do that?
First off, I recall hearing that in McDonald's commercials, even every sesame seed on the bun is hand-placed. Toppings have protective layers in between them to prevent them from sinking into each other and often take slices of meat and tomatoes from the back of the sandwich and use them to fill out the front a bit more. The sandwich is impaled with toothpicks to make things hold together. Now, all the ingredients of the sandwich are there, but they've just been adjusted a little for maximum effect, which is what advertisements are supposed to give. It's assumed that no one will ever eat this burger, and it will probably just be tossed after the shooting.
Now let's say you sneak onto the set and swipe this burger for yourself. It looks so tasty, you just have to have your shot at it. So, you sink your teeth in and... ow! you just stabbed yourself with a bunch of toothpicks and suddenly have saran wrap on your teeth. You rush in a furor to the crew on-set, pointing your finger at them and decrying your pain and misery and demanding an explanation. They look at you with dumbfounded looks and say, "Well... sorry... but it's your own damned fault for eating the ad burger!"
Now, I personally like McDonald's every now and then, so at the end of the day I still get a good product. Those of you who don't like McDonald's, imagine any advertised food you like and replace this scenario with that.
So. Hypothetically, let's say Valve is preparing an E3 demo. They want to show people what Half-Life 2 can do. And they say to themselves, "well... let's see... how can we give the best possible example of our gameplay?" They start recording demos, but after demo after demo, they get a number of different outcomes and on the rare occasion that everything worked perfectly, the guy playing accidentally crushes himself with a dumpster, or some other mishap, ruining the take. They're frustrated. So then they say, "hey, wait. Why don't we tone down the NPC damage a bit and place a few hint nodes and small scripts to make our job easier?" Now when they run through this demo, they have a pretty consistent chain of events that demonstrates the strength of their components. Or should I say... ingredients?
Oh, whoops! Somebody found the demo map they weren't supposed to find and is crying foul because there's scripting in it. Sorry, bucko, that's what you get for taking the ad version.
Now, this is hypothetical, but I'd imagine this is probably far closer to the truth than any deliberate covering up for missing features or something like that.
Funny thing is, the final game will ship and there will still be scripted sequences in it - you can't really have an entire single player game without a script and scripting events to make sure the story happens correctly. And I guarantee you people will complain about Valve lying because critical points in the game always happen the same. *sigh*
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-MedHead+Apr 30 2004, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Apr 30 2004, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The houses have textures of windows on them, but there are no outcroppings of window sills or individual window panes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> At that range, we could easily be seeing the effects of an LOD system in place. I wouldn't count it out just yet.
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
That game is going to rape my Radeon 9600 128 mb. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I do recall reading a VAVLVe interview where he said that the enemies were hinted as to what to do to make everything look cool, which is what I suspected anyway.
And I was right! Option A it is.
EDIT: KungFuSquirrel, that's pretty much what they do. Nothing on those commercials is edible, not even the soda...
But yeah, it still tastes like a burger when you get it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+May 1 2004, 06:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ May 1 2004, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Er, no son. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I stopped reading right about there. Don't be a jerk.
---
KungFu, you might be right (about your second post). And as I've said, I certainly hope so. I don't want the game to be bad! I'd rather be wrong than be right in this instance, but I have a sick feeling that I might be on the right track with my thoughts about this game.
<!--QuoteBegin-BizZy | 9mm Messiah+May 1 2004, 10:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BizZy | 9mm Messiah @ May 1 2004, 10:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That game is going to rape my Radeon 9600 128 mb. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nah, that card will run the game fine my friend.
Medhead, don't take it too seriously man, I was just correcting your misinterpretation on my arguement. Although I still think your 'sick feeling' is unfounded, Valve will deliver!
Personally i'd love to see a really cool intro bit with cool ads, not shite ones like ea and nvidia's. Anyone remember Quake II's intro? that was so the leet.
He must mean the opening cinematic. Or possibly the in-game demo playing in the background.
...
I don't think any of HL2's tech is going to be stuff never seen before in games (with the possible exception of the facial animation). What we will see is a compilation of the cool new tech which has been steadily creeping in recently, but being made full use of by Valve's game and level design talent.
You need to use your imagination a bit and think of the possibilities for what could be in the final game, instead of regarding all the released media as tech demos.
Comments
EDIT: I see.
Oh, and the Painkiller engine isn't good with just pollies, it seems. The water shader used in that boss battle was pretty kick-arse.
But yeah, Painkiller's a lot more exciting because it's out.
And Painkiller owns.
Or, only the windows that are to be broken are going to be breakable?
Or, only the windows that are to be broken are going to be breakable? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what VALVe is claiming, that sort of thing'll be dynamic.
Another thing that really troubles me is how painfully similar everything looks so far in HL2. I pray to whatever there is to pray to that not everything is going to be dusky gray with black specks and populated by combine soldiers.
Chrono, I certainly hope you're right. We'll have to see.
They said at some point, something like "this is all unscripted" in the barricade demo at e3, reffering to the way NPCs took cover behind things and moved with you.
Now, wheter you take that as VALVe sneakily distorting the truth by implying that the whole thing and all the demos where totally unscripted or the hype machine/rumor mill getting the wrong idea is up to you.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er, no son. I'm talking about Half-Life <i>2</i>'s story. With the technology making it viable, you can sure as hell bet it'll be a damn sight more involving than HL's cliched but lovable narrative.
Just give the game a try when it comes out, and we'll see how that droning tune changes <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: About the windows; they'll just be a texture that is defined to break under damage through Valve's material system. You could make a rubbish box map coated in nothing but that texture, and they'd still break.
And some of the AI in the E3 demos was scripted, but only because some of it wasn't ready and some things they wanted to happen in a certain way to maximise the 'Wow' factor (for instance, the Combine soldier was hinted to stand under the path of the falling dumpster just to make it look snazzy, in the full game chances are he'll stay the hell away).
edit: sounded sarcastic D:
First off, I recall hearing that in McDonald's commercials, even every sesame seed on the bun is hand-placed. Toppings have protective layers in between them to prevent them from sinking into each other and often take slices of meat and tomatoes from the back of the sandwich and use them to fill out the front a bit more. The sandwich is impaled with toothpicks to make things hold together. Now, all the ingredients of the sandwich are there, but they've just been adjusted a little for maximum effect, which is what advertisements are supposed to give. It's assumed that no one will ever eat this burger, and it will probably just be tossed after the shooting.
Now let's say you sneak onto the set and swipe this burger for yourself. It looks so tasty, you just have to have your shot at it. So, you sink your teeth in and... ow! you just stabbed yourself with a bunch of toothpicks and suddenly have saran wrap on your teeth. You rush in a furor to the crew on-set, pointing your finger at them and decrying your pain and misery and demanding an explanation. They look at you with dumbfounded looks and say, "Well... sorry... but it's your own damned fault for eating the ad burger!"
Now, I personally like McDonald's every now and then, so at the end of the day I still get a good product. Those of you who don't like McDonald's, imagine any advertised food you like and replace this scenario with that.
So. Hypothetically, let's say Valve is preparing an E3 demo. They want to show people what Half-Life 2 can do. And they say to themselves, "well... let's see... how can we give the best possible example of our gameplay?" They start recording demos, but after demo after demo, they get a number of different outcomes and on the rare occasion that everything worked perfectly, the guy playing accidentally crushes himself with a dumpster, or some other mishap, ruining the take. They're frustrated. So then they say, "hey, wait. Why don't we tone down the NPC damage a bit and place a few hint nodes and small scripts to make our job easier?" Now when they run through this demo, they have a pretty consistent chain of events that demonstrates the strength of their components. Or should I say... ingredients?
Oh, whoops! Somebody found the demo map they weren't supposed to find and is crying foul because there's scripting in it. Sorry, bucko, that's what you get for taking the ad version.
Now, this is hypothetical, but I'd imagine this is probably far closer to the truth than any deliberate covering up for missing features or something like that.
Funny thing is, the final game will ship and there will still be scripted sequences in it - you can't really have an entire single player game without a script and scripting events to make sure the story happens correctly. And I guarantee you people will complain about Valve lying because critical points in the game always happen the same. *sigh*
At that range, we could easily be seeing the effects of an LOD system in place. I wouldn't count it out just yet.
And I was right! Option A it is.
EDIT: KungFuSquirrel, that's pretty much what they do. Nothing on those commercials is edible, not even the soda...
But yeah, it still tastes like a burger when you get it.
I stopped reading right about there. Don't be a jerk.
---
KungFu, you might be right (about your second post). And as I've said, I certainly hope so. I don't want the game to be bad! I'd rather be wrong than be right in this instance, but I have a sick feeling that I might be on the right track with my thoughts about this game.
Nah, that card will run the game fine my friend.
Medhead, don't take it too seriously man, I was just correcting your misinterpretation on my arguement. Although I still think your 'sick feeling' is unfounded, Valve will deliver!
Personally i'd love to see a really cool intro bit with cool ads, not shite ones like ea and nvidia's. Anyone remember Quake II's intro? that was so the leet.
...
I don't think any of HL2's tech is going to be stuff never seen before in games (with the possible exception of the facial animation). What we will see is a compilation of the cool new tech which has been steadily creeping in recently, but being made full use of by Valve's game and level design talent.
You need to use your imagination a bit and think of the possibilities for what could be in the final game, instead of regarding all the released media as tech demos.