TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
I think it would be useful if it were available right away and be reasonably priced. A vent clearing weapon the first two minutes of the game is pretty scary. it would be a great thing to pass out right away, so marines could avoid those nasty ambush spots. A couple bursts of flame through a doorway should clear all the skulks hiding around it, or at least make them back away from it. That's a powerful weapon, and definitely adds to the game.
Okay, now for my input on the flamethrower, and why I think it'd be useful, badass, and balanced.
First of all, it should be volumetric (why it wouldnt be, I dont know), a napalm (liquid) fuel...so it retains usefulness in open areas, and be broken into a completly new class of marine. (idea borrowed from an earlier post.) Now for the explanation.
First of all, it should require a Prototype lab to obtain, as a third upgrade/armor class. It should be done like the Perdiditon Flamethrower/Firebat from StarCraft, the upgrade coming as an enhanced suit of heavy armor.
The armor will have less armor points than normal, and the flamethrower integrated into the right arm of the suit. (So the marine not only has a cool AND effective napalm flamethrower, but he looks pretty badass in his new fire-proof armor suit.)
The tanks should be exposed, and worn as a backback. The marine should not be able to jump high, run fast, or even turn fast while using the cumbersome beast of a weapon. It should be loud, it should be flashy. And the tanks...most definately should be able to be detonated by an enemy attack. (A skulk taking a few bites into the tanks, then *KABOOM*) INTENSE friendly fire should be dealt to anyone near the flamethrower, even if the server has FF turned off, making the teamwork part of the marine team go up even higer, seeing as how a group of marines would have to protect the expensive, effective, volatile humanoid of doom.
On another note, the flamethrower should be able to damage all teammates, once again, even if the server has FF off...raising once more the tactical/teamwork value of NS. (I dont hardly ever see malicious teamkillers in the NS community, so I dont see that would ever be a problem.)
Secondly, the pistol and knife should be taken out of the marine (once again, idea borrowed from earlier on) and replaced with a decently strong melee/support style weapon. Large knife, machine pistol, SMG, something weaker than an LMG, but not rendering the marine completely useless if he runs out of fuel, or something gets too close to friendly units to use the flamethrower (seeins as the weilder would be invulnerable to his own flames, aswell as other flames, which would make for mighty-cool sweeper teams too.)
Edit: There should also be a limit to the number of flamethrowers active at a time. 1/3 of the total number of players on the marine team perhaps. (9 players, 3 flamethrowers max.) And if the number isnt divisible by 3, then something close. And of course, once the flamethrower unit dies, another one can be produced. Which ONCE AGAIN raises the tactical value of a massive building/unit destruction device. And, seeing how the Khaara are completely organic, and fire hurts organic shiz, the flamethrower should be able to deal decent damage to pretty much anything...except for the armor plated onos of course, maybe there should even be a "Fire resistance" evolution for the aliens, not make them invulernable to it...but just greatly reduced damage, rendering the flamer useless against most anything but buildins/hive clearing. Possible replacement for something like celerety, which isnt used all too often anyway.
Anyway, end of my post. This idea would rock, and be very, very useful, aswell as balanced, from my standpoint anyway.
<!--QuoteBegin-Maveric+Jun 24 2004, 01:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maveric @ Jun 24 2004, 01:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because, when you think about it, you're on a space ship. It wouldn't make any sense to throw something with <i>high-explosives</i> and detonate, rupturing the hull... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Coff Coff Ns_hera Coff Coff
The weight of an onos would break the hull. Plus the acid rocket of fade....
Sounds like easy onos grub. As for your extra weapon enhancements, I don't think there are many more... Your idea is pretty immense... I believe it could be made in NS2. 1/3 of people only get to wear it sounds interesting too. NS doesn't have hit detection either so the biting tank idea won't work. I just think that maybe a HMG with a HA would get the job done since:
A) You get 200+ armor B) Your attacks have a longer range C) You only lose 5% of regular vanilla rine speed
As of right now, the shotgun and the hand grenade COMPLETLY negate the use of the flamethrower, so the only way to get a purpose would be to eliminate either of these weapons or weaken them so that the FT gets a niche. Perdition's idea is well written, but I just can't see it's use when other weapons do the job it does and also the major weaknesses of it. However, it is quite innovative that you made a weapon into a full body suit.
EDIT:
Not to mention the grenade has two key abilities that make it unique:
- the ability to richocet off walls longer distances than a FT - the ability to shoot in an arc (over a hill perhaps)
Yes, yes. I know the shotgun and grenade launchers make having a flamethrower almost pointless. But what has more style? Buckshot and a boom? Or roar, whoosh, BBQ skulk?
Thought so.
Hit detection is something that I think NS needs to get for special situations such as this, im not saying it needs anything too too advanced, and im pretty sure adding hit detection to that wouldnt be at all difficult.
On second thought...im no mod maker, modeler, anything like that, so im not sure if this would be possible...but couldnt they treat the fuel tanks as a seperate player? With its own hitboxes, its own HP, and when the hp reaches 0, they explode?
Edit: I didnt manage to get all of my ideas down in that first, mile long post. Of course the Flame unit I immagine would do much, much more damage than the shotgun, or grenade launcher could pump out. But of course would have the high resource cost, limited amount of soldiers, and risk of exploding. And the onos grub part? To counter just being eaten, as the soldiers would be slower than most..well, everything else. Say, the onos ate the highly volatile flame unit, the stomach acids ate into the fuel tanks, the marine explodes inside of the Onos. (Killing them both of course.) Give a nice excuse to add alien-gibbing, and it would cost both sides of the battle huge resources.
This is not a thread for you to suggest flamethrower ideas in. This thread is for discussing the need for a flamethrower. Besides, a flamethrower in NS is highly unlikely. Perhaps NS2, but not NS. As said before, the HL engine is too limiting.
EDIT - Decided to say that this is directed at all people posting ideas, not one individual.
<!--QuoteBegin-Perdition Flamethrower+Jul 2 2004, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Perdition Flamethrower @ Jul 2 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Possible replacement for something like celerety, which isnt used all too often anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What?! <b><i>WHAT?!</i></b>
Skulks seem to be the only ones who use celerity. All of the other classes need something like adrenaline.
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it."
Cele is used more than aldren, I beleve, unless you're an onos-stomp-****. As you play more and more, you'll realise that Cele is superior to Aldren for most life forms.
Back on topic, we can have a flame thrower. Its easy in fact. Its just the way Flayra wants it to work thats hard. So unless you're looking for a sub-par flamethrower, its probably not going to happen.
As previously stated, shotguns practically does everything a flamethrower should do: but better. The shotgun has range (you can snipe with it up to a certain distance), It does heavy damage against buildings, and it hurts. alot. Whats the difference between a flamethrower and a shotgun? How is the shotgun not equal or even greater than a flamethrower.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> I hate playing as teh alien scum anyway. Marines own...and for some reason it seems like everyone agrees that the marines own the aliens.
That isnt true, each race has their good maps and bad maps. Aliens never win on...i think it's Tanith, and I have NEVER seen marines win on bast. =P
Its just a matter of what map, who's comming, and if the marines are listening or not.
There is no team oreinted maps, certian maps are slightly tipped one way or another, but it is dependent on other factors, like skill level of the average player on the map (bast is a somewhat newbie unfreindly map) and ammount of players in the server (eclipse gets harder for aliens with large marine teams much faster). I would imagine that the average win loss would be about 55% aliens 45% marines, with some maps going as high as 65/35 and some maps flipping the figures the other way around. But there is NO maps that guarentee a teams win by any means.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Jul 2 2004, 08:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Jul 2 2004, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zek+Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Jun 28 2004, 11:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Frosty, if you want NS to reach its peak the best way to do it is to completely cut off any new features and just let it stagnate until people get tired of it and quit. Did NS "need" any of the new things that have been implemented since 1.04? No, not really. We could easily have just tweaked the numbers and gotten the game mostly balanced without wasting time on a single new, unnecessary feature. How long do you think the game would last like that? Stop thinking of every addition in terms of absolute necessity and balance. If we don't put in new things once in a while it will get stale and the playerbase is only going to shrink. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If it doesn't bring anything to the game, then don't bother, in my opinion. I'm a supporter of the unchained chambers because it adds a lot to the game. But the trouble with the flamer is that the stereotype of it is so, so close to the roles a GL provides; anti-vent, anti-structure, defensive (gren-spamming an entrance), and general support. If the falmer provides something that other than those, all's good. Otherwise, there is no point just bunging it in "just because it looks cool". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> the only thing unchained chambers adds to the game is choas, and it takes away what little alien teamwork the aliens had, I know that the marines need teamwork and the aliens don't , but the chambers are chained down for a reason.
I think a flamethrower would not only bring in new players and be cooler then ruining the game with no chamber rules. but allso it'd just be better
<!--QuoteBegin-Perdition Flamethrower+Jul 2 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Perdition Flamethrower @ Jul 2 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulks seem to be the only ones who use celerity. All of the other classes need something like adrenaline.
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're crazy. I use celerity as the primary movement upgrade for ALL classes. It's very useful.
<!--QuoteBegin-Jmmsbnd007+Jul 3 2004, 02:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jmmsbnd007 @ Jul 3 2004, 02:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Perdition Flamethrower+Jul 2 2004, 08:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Perdition Flamethrower @ Jul 2 2004, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Skulks seem to be the only ones who use celerity. All of the other classes need something like adrenaline.
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're crazy. I use celerity as the primary movement upgrade for ALL classes. It's very useful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I mix and match depending on the situation, but for the most part all lifeforms are quite effective with celerity. Try battle gorging with adrenaline <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So far, I've seen only two ideas that have caught my eye in this thread.
1) I like Nem's damage-over-time idea. It would be a unique weapon that would not overlap with the grenade launcher or shotgun. While the GL encourages hit-and-runs, the flamethrower would discourage those hit-and-runs.
2) Replacing acid rocket with flamethrower. Although this removes a ranged weapon from the aliens, a flamethrower fits the fade in many ways. First, much of the artwork is done: on the fade's model, the acid launcher arm can now serve as the flamethrower arm - no need for a new model. Second, flamethrowers would be a much more fun weapon than acid rockets.
Another thing:
The flamethrower does not need to be a vent clearer. Marines already possess other ways to clear vents: hand grenades, grenade launchers, mines (may require a marine "ladder" to get to the vent), jetpacks, and indirectly motion tracking. Although those weapons aren't specialized in clearing vents, they do the job well enough. There are enough counters to "vents".
Therefore, <b>flamethrowers do NOT need to be volumetric</b>. If clearing vents is not a main purpose of the flamethower, why would it need to be volumetric? Without that requirement, it would be much easier to implement. The remaining requirements can be satisfied now: non-volumetric flamethrowers won't waste much CPU and graphics aren't a problem
How would the organic, squishy, watery lifeform create the flames then? Something like Reign of Fire? (if it was already mentioned, dont bite my head off, I skimmed the first ten pages.)
I think upgrading acid rocket would be a good idea, but not to a flamethrower...acid rocket isnt good for that much anyway, considering it move slow enough for marines to evade it at a distance.
The marines should get a torch, and the acid rocket should be upgraded to something like this: Fires the same was it used to, but upon impact with a wall, floor, ceiling, marine, or marine structure it lingers...because last I checked acid keeps burning even after initial contact. It would be neat to set acid-traps for marines...of course it wouldnt be permanent, but a neat idea no matter.
yeah I don't really see a fade shooting flames, it just wouldn't work, maybe the onos cuz he gets gas from eating all those marines but not the fade
I think its pretty clear that the marines would get the flame thrower, and I think its pretty clear that the FT SHOULD be volumetric, cuz thats the key element that makes it interesting and gives it the good tatical advantage
Well to be honest I think Maian is on to something, not with the Fade idea, but with the non-volumetric flame thrower. Ok, it'll be slightly less cool <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> but at least it has more of a chance of being implemented, and it wouldn't be the resource hog that a pretty volumetric fire breathing monstrosity would be.
Bah, I'd hate to have to stop playing NS on my low-end machine because folks think a flamethrower will be neat-o. I can understand electrifying turret factories and resource towers (really, just one skulk alone could easily take them out if you lot remember 1.x), but why a flamethrower? I can't imagine one looking good on the Half-Life engine (at the very least, the tfc flamethrower is horrible), and it seems like a lot of work to replace an already working system, not to mention the low-end playerbase issues.
I'd hate to go into the necessity of it, but unless you can get a flamethrower that won't hog resources, won't send my fps to 4, and won't look worse than our already existing grenade launcher based system of taking out buildings, I think it would just cause more problems than it would solve (Well, I actually think there are absolutely no problems with the grenade launcher, so maybe only cause problems).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How would the organic, squishy, watery lifeform create the flames then? Something like Reign of Fire? (if it was already mentioned, dont bite my head off, I skimmed the first ten pages.)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, aliens in some movies have spewed flames before like Starship Troopers, so it's not out of the question. I think it could look pretty cool with some good animation (like waving its claws as if saying "burn...burn...").
In terms of realism, it is very possible. Let's say the fade can quickly produce two volatile chemicals within two seperate heavily armored glands. When the fade wants to spew flame, the glands start pumping the chemicals into ducts, which lead to that shoulder "arm". The glands metabolism and muscular activity are directly powered by the fade's energy reserves. The inside of the arm secretes a type of heat-resistant mucus and an enzyme. The enzyme catalyzes the reaction between the two chemicals. Pressure pushes the mixture (of the two chemicals and the enzyme) out at great speeds. The whole flamethrower system requires the enzyme for safety reasons - if the glands were breached and the two chemicals came into contact unintentionally, it would be disastrous if the chemicals reacted violently within the fade.
NolSinklerOn the ClorfJoin Date: 2004-02-15Member: 26560Members, Constellation
Actually the fade flamethrower would be ok if it was spores instead of a flamethrower...could be called a sporethrower (lol).
Sporethrower(give me a good name for it...that sounds dumb). The fades hive 3 attack. The fade releases a highly toxic substance, which, unlike the lerks spores, affects the marine internally. The lerk spores attack the outside of the marine body, while the fades spores enter the lungs. This makes the spores so powerful that it may even kill a HA marine. The fades sporethrower(...) travels about 7.5 meters (or about 22.5 feet) at the most, but doing high damage to anyone inside.
Does 80 damage/second (40 damage/second to HA). Lasts for 15 seconds (enough to kill many LA marines, and after 15 seconds will do 600 damage to any HA inside...enough to kill level 0, or level 1 HA). Uses 60% energy/spore. RoF: 1 every 4 seconds (damage can stack). This attack is extremely powerful, and any TSA marine will have to watch out for it. It is colored a dark green color. The replacement for acid rocket.
Seeing that the actual question of whether a FT makes sense seems to be off the table, I think this pretty much ran its course. For further suggestions, refer to the I&S forum.
Comments
First of all, it should be volumetric (why it wouldnt be, I dont know), a napalm (liquid) fuel...so it retains usefulness in open areas, and be broken into a completly new class of marine. (idea borrowed from an earlier post.) Now for the explanation.
First of all, it should require a Prototype lab to obtain, as a third upgrade/armor class. It should be done like the Perdiditon Flamethrower/Firebat from StarCraft, the upgrade coming as an enhanced suit of heavy armor.
The armor will have less armor points than normal, and the flamethrower integrated into the right arm of the suit. (So the marine not only has a cool AND effective napalm flamethrower, but he looks pretty badass in his new fire-proof armor suit.)
The tanks should be exposed, and worn as a backback. The marine should not be able to jump high, run fast, or even turn fast while using the cumbersome beast of a weapon. It should be loud, it should be flashy. And the tanks...most definately should be able to be detonated by an enemy attack. (A skulk taking a few bites into the tanks, then *KABOOM*) INTENSE friendly fire should be dealt to anyone near the flamethrower, even if the server has FF turned off, making the teamwork part of the marine team go up even higer, seeing as how a group of marines would have to protect the expensive, effective, volatile humanoid of doom.
On another note, the flamethrower should be able to damage all teammates, once again, even if the server has FF off...raising once more the tactical/teamwork value of NS. (I dont hardly ever see malicious teamkillers in the NS community, so I dont see that would ever be a problem.)
Secondly, the pistol and knife should be taken out of the marine (once again, idea borrowed from earlier on) and replaced with a decently strong melee/support style weapon. Large knife, machine pistol, SMG, something weaker than an LMG, but not rendering the marine completely useless if he runs out of fuel, or something gets too close to friendly units to use the flamethrower (seeins as the weilder would be invulnerable to his own flames, aswell as other flames, which would make for mighty-cool sweeper teams too.)
Edit: There should also be a limit to the number of flamethrowers active at a time. 1/3 of the total number of players on the marine team perhaps. (9 players, 3 flamethrowers max.) And if the number isnt divisible by 3, then something close. And of course, once the flamethrower unit dies, another one can be produced. Which ONCE AGAIN raises the tactical value of a massive building/unit destruction device. And, seeing how the Khaara are completely organic, and fire hurts organic shiz, the flamethrower should be able to deal decent damage to pretty much anything...except for the armor plated onos of course, maybe there should even be a "Fire resistance" evolution for the aliens, not make them invulernable to it...but just greatly reduced damage, rendering the flamer useless against most anything but buildins/hive clearing. Possible replacement for something like celerety, which isnt used all too often anyway.
Anyway, end of my post. This idea would rock, and be very, very useful, aswell as balanced, from my standpoint anyway.
Coff Coff Ns_hera Coff Coff
The weight of an onos would break the hull.
Plus the acid rocket of fade....
A) You get 200+ armor
B) Your attacks have a longer range
C) You only lose 5% of regular vanilla rine speed
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
My input:
As of right now, the shotgun and the hand grenade COMPLETLY negate the use of the flamethrower, so the only way to get a purpose would be to eliminate either of these weapons or weaken them so that the FT gets a niche. Perdition's idea is well written, but I just can't see it's use when other weapons do the job it does and also the major weaknesses of it. However, it is quite innovative that you made a weapon into a full body suit.
EDIT:
Not to mention the grenade has two key abilities that make it unique:
- the ability to richocet off walls longer distances than a FT
- the ability to shoot in an arc (over a hill perhaps)
*arc is like a rainbow, not a straight line*
Thought so.
Hit detection is something that I think NS needs to get for special situations such as this, im not saying it needs anything too too advanced, and im pretty sure adding hit detection to that wouldnt be at all difficult.
On second thought...im no mod maker, modeler, anything like that, so im not sure if this would be possible...but couldnt they treat the fuel tanks as a seperate player? With its own hitboxes, its own HP, and when the hp reaches 0, they explode?
Edit: I didnt manage to get all of my ideas down in that first, mile long post. Of course the Flame unit I immagine would do much, much more damage than the shotgun, or grenade launcher could pump out. But of course would have the high resource cost, limited amount of soldiers, and risk of exploding. And the onos grub part? To counter just being eaten, as the soldiers would be slower than most..well, everything else. Say, the onos ate the highly volatile flame unit, the stomach acids ate into the fuel tanks, the marine explodes inside of the Onos. (Killing them both of course.) Give a nice excuse to add alien-gibbing, and it would cost both sides of the battle huge resources.
Just a thought.
EDIT - Decided to say that this is directed at all people posting ideas, not one individual.
What?! <b><i>WHAT?!</i></b>
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it."
Back on topic, we can have a flame thrower. Its easy in fact. Its just the way Flayra wants it to work thats hard. So unless you're looking for a sub-par flamethrower, its probably not going to happen.
As previously stated, shotguns practically does everything a flamethrower should do: but better. The shotgun has range (you can snipe with it up to a certain distance), It does heavy damage against buildings, and it hurts. alot. Whats the difference between a flamethrower and a shotgun? How is the shotgun not equal or even greater than a flamethrower.
That isnt true, each race has their good maps and bad maps. Aliens never win on...i think it's Tanith, and I have NEVER seen marines win on bast. =P
Its just a matter of what map, who's comming, and if the marines are listening or not.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <Oh noes!!1!! teh marine!!!!! runxor!!1!
Not only have you not played Alien much, you must have been playing Marines with your eyes closed.
Basically, every point brought up by Smood summarizes my standpoint as why NS does not need a flamethrower.
But I have only been on the winning marine team ONCE in bast. >.>; Dont ask me why, maybe just a case of my luck.
If it doesn't bring anything to the game, then don't bother, in my opinion. I'm a supporter of the unchained chambers because it adds a lot to the game. But the trouble with the flamer is that the stereotype of it is so, so close to the roles a GL provides; anti-vent, anti-structure, defensive (gren-spamming an entrance), and general support. If the falmer provides something that other than those, all's good. Otherwise, there is no point just bunging it in "just because it looks cool". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only thing unchained chambers adds to the game is choas, and it takes away what little alien teamwork the aliens had, I know that the marines need teamwork and the aliens don't , but the chambers are chained down for a reason.
I think a flamethrower would not only bring in new players and be cooler then ruining the game with no chamber rules. but allso it'd just be better
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it." <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're crazy. I use celerity as the primary movement upgrade for ALL classes. It's very useful.
George the Gorge - I think this thread moved more to suggestion style posts to try and prove the worth of a flamethrower in NS. So it isnt just "No, I dont want it." and "Yes, NS needs it." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're crazy. I use celerity as the primary movement upgrade for ALL classes. It's very useful. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mix and match depending on the situation, but for the most part all lifeforms are quite effective with celerity. Try battle gorging with adrenaline <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) I like Nem's damage-over-time idea. It would be a unique weapon that would not overlap with the grenade launcher or shotgun. While the GL encourages hit-and-runs, the flamethrower would discourage those hit-and-runs.
2) Replacing acid rocket with flamethrower. Although this removes a ranged weapon from the aliens, a flamethrower fits the fade in many ways. First, much of the artwork is done: on the fade's model, the acid launcher arm can now serve as the flamethrower arm - no need for a new model. Second, flamethrowers would be a much more fun weapon than acid rockets.
Another thing:
The flamethrower does not need to be a vent clearer. Marines already possess other ways to clear vents: hand grenades, grenade launchers, mines (may require a marine "ladder" to get to the vent), jetpacks, and indirectly motion tracking. Although those weapons aren't specialized in clearing vents, they do the job well enough. There are enough counters to "vents".
Therefore, <b>flamethrowers do NOT need to be volumetric</b>. If clearing vents is not a main purpose of the flamethower, why would it need to be volumetric? Without that requirement, it would be much easier to implement. The remaining requirements can be satisfied now: non-volumetric flamethrowers won't waste much CPU and graphics aren't a problem
I think upgrading acid rocket would be a good idea, but not to a flamethrower...acid rocket isnt good for that much anyway, considering it move slow enough for marines to evade it at a distance.
The marines should get a torch, and the acid rocket should be upgraded to something like this: Fires the same was it used to, but upon impact with a wall, floor, ceiling, marine, or marine structure it lingers...because last I checked acid keeps burning even after initial contact. It would be neat to set acid-traps for marines...of course it wouldnt be permanent, but a neat idea no matter.
(a fade spraying flames would be...eh, uncool?)
I think its pretty clear that the marines would get the flame thrower, and I think its pretty clear that the FT SHOULD be volumetric, cuz thats the key element that makes it interesting and gives it the good tatical advantage
Any devs out there willing to support this claim?
I'd hate to go into the necessity of it, but unless you can get a flamethrower that won't hog resources, won't send my fps to 4, and won't look worse than our already existing grenade launcher based system of taking out buildings, I think it would just cause more problems than it would solve (Well, I actually think there are absolutely no problems with the grenade launcher, so maybe only cause problems).
Well, aliens in some movies have spewed flames before like Starship Troopers, so it's not out of the question. I think it could look pretty cool with some good animation (like waving its claws as if saying "burn...burn...").
In terms of realism, it is very possible. Let's say the fade can quickly produce two volatile chemicals within two seperate heavily armored glands. When the fade wants to spew flame, the glands start pumping the chemicals into ducts, which lead to that shoulder "arm". The glands metabolism and muscular activity are directly powered by the fade's energy reserves. The inside of the arm secretes a type of heat-resistant mucus and an enzyme. The enzyme catalyzes the reaction between the two chemicals. Pressure pushes the mixture (of the two chemicals and the enzyme) out at great speeds. The whole flamethrower system requires the enzyme for safety reasons - if the glands were breached and the two chemicals came into contact unintentionally, it would be disastrous if the chemicals reacted violently within the fade.
Sporethrower(give me a good name for it...that sounds dumb). The fades hive 3 attack. The fade releases a highly toxic substance, which, unlike the lerks spores, affects the marine internally. The lerk spores attack the outside of the marine body, while the fades spores enter the lungs. This makes the spores so powerful that it may even kill a HA marine. The fades sporethrower(...) travels about 7.5 meters (or about 22.5 feet) at the most, but doing high damage to anyone inside.
Does 80 damage/second (40 damage/second to HA). Lasts for 15 seconds (enough to kill many LA marines, and after 15 seconds will do 600 damage to any HA inside...enough to kill level 0, or level 1 HA). Uses 60% energy/spore. RoF: 1 every 4 seconds (damage can stack). This attack is extremely powerful, and any TSA marine will have to watch out for it. It is colored a dark green color. The replacement for acid rocket.
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