Hmm, but in warcraft, didn't people use farms to block paths? Why not here too?
although the "you have to build it fully before you can recycle" suggestion holds promise. A comm will now have to think whether he should waste a marine's time to recycle it, or allow it to stay and be destroyed by the next wave. That way the comm would trap and kill an onos who tried to do a hit and run, but he's also trapping his own marines in the base for a time.
Hmm, can a CC be used as a cover against WoLs? I mean drop one in the line of fire, have a marine build and weld it while another marine nades the WoL? Or do OCs target marines first and structures second?
<!--QuoteBegin-Neoskeptic+Sep 10 2004, 09:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Neoskeptic @ Sep 10 2004, 09:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, but in warcraft, didn't people use farms to block paths? Why not here too?
although the "you have to build it fully before you can recycle" suggestion holds promise. A comm will now have to think whether he should waste a marine's time to recycle it, or allow it to stay and be destroyed by the next wave. That way the comm would trap and kill an onos who tried to do a hit and run, but he's also trapping his own marines in the base for a time.
Hmm, can a CC be used as a cover against WoLs? I mean drop one in the line of fire, have a marine build and weld it while another marine nades the WoL? Or do OCs target marines first and structures second? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In Warcraft the good human players position their buildings in a certain way to fend off harassment early game. Humans suffer from early game harassment and with a good base layout you can surround and kill anything that tries to go deep in your town. It also protects your ranged from melee for awile while they pound on the millita. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out.
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The development team isn't all mighty.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.
I think I'll post an idea in the suggestion forum now to stop blocking.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The development team isn't all mighty.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-read my post.. It states we are looking into alternatives.
Zunni, judging by the amount of people who have expressed vehemently their objection to this so called "exploit" being removed, I suggest a middleground.
Fix the "exploit" in whichever way you (the dev team) sees fit.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-read my post.. It states we are looking into alternatives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Just make buildings noclip until they are actually +used... and then have their health scale from like 25%->100% instead of 100%->100% as it is now.
Ex: Comm drops a comm chair the comm chair is etheral (like a cloaked alien building) until someone actually +uses it, and it starts with 2500 HP instead of 10,000.
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The development team isn't all mighty.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.
I think I'll post an idea in the suggestion forum now to stop blocking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> As Zunni said ... re-read the post. They are doing something about it.
I heard the idea of structures teleporting in via a kind of IP you have to build first get good feedback but that's for I and S.
If the dev team don't want exploiting in, then it will NOT be in. Why put in a server side variable for something thats not meant to be in the game in the first place? We're not talking about harmless scripting here, we're talking about the NS concept which has little if anything to do with anyone outside the dev team.
Anyways what about making the comm "chair" be like a comm "pod" where the person is laying down in it. Then you woun't have to worry about blocking at all. Yay.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Sep 20 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Sep 20 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Server side variable? You've got to be joking.
If the dev team don't want exploiting in, then it will NOT be in. Why put in a server side variable for something thats not meant to be in the game in the first place? We're not talking about harmless scripting here, we're talking about the NS concept which has little if anything to do with anyone outside the dev team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Since when did the devs not listen to the playerbase?
This community is going the wrong way imo.
Stop dumbing down the game, have you noticed that only the top 5-10% of com's cc block?
Seriously, how many pub coms have you seen cc block? How many times have you seen a CC block in a CAL/CPL match?
First it's CC blocking, next it will be scripting, with bhopping following shortly after. Remember when CS was actually fun to play, in 1.3? That was because there was actually an element of skill involved to do well. Keep NS going down this route and teh NS community will turn into the stagnant kiddie filled one that currently dominates CS.
The reason good players can do these kind of things is because it's hard to do. Bhopping, strafe jump, glides, leap/bite, dodging as marine, accurate medding, CC blocking. The moment you start removing the element of skill you are turning NS down the road to ruin.
CC blocking is not hard at all to do. Maybe if it required more skill to do, it would be accepted <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Where precisely did I say they didn't listen to the player base? Don't make up baseless quotes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stop dumbing down the game, have you noticed that only the top 5-10% of com's cc block? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate to scare you with this, but the DEVS SAY ITS EXPLOITING. Its not a matter of dumbing down, its a matter of exploiting. I'm willing to bet the top 5-10% of any group will do strange things, but that doesn't make me want to copy them. The devs don't want it in because as they see it its either an exploit or not in the spirit of the game. If you don't like that then thats unfortunate.
In addition, I think the top 5-10% of comms don't *need* CC blocking to win.. so they're not going to miss it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> an element of skill involved to do well <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Skill"......... button pressing? Get a sense of your own importance, button pushing is not a skill and never will be. Second, would you not agree that by removing exploits you do in fact make the game more reliant on skill? People will have to learn to bhop properly without 3jump binds, they'll have to learn to shoot the pistol faster without wacky scripts. There's more "skill" in NS now than ever before.
Just because something is allegedly hard to do doesn't mean its a good basis for its inclusion or removal. Its all about the CONCEPT. The NS balance concept allows for CC walls in corridors, it does NOT allow for cc blocking in order to catch an Onos by surprise. With the future (we hope) removal of exploitative blocking you are SURE to see an increase in player "skill" because they'll have to learn to kill the Onos properly, without the crutch of a magic CC appearing for it to crouch over.
<!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Sep 21 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Sep 21 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hate to scare you with this, but the DEVS SAY ITS EXPLOITING. Its not a matter of dumbing down, its a matter of exploiting. I'm willing to bet the top 5-10% of any group will do strange things, but that doesn't make me want to copy them. The devs don't want it in because as they see it its either an exploit or not in the spirit of the game. If you don't like that then thats unfortunate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> k I don't really have an opinion on CC blocking but the devs aren't the ones who should be deciding what is legal and what is not. The players themselves should. The community, and to a larger extent, the clanning community should decide what is 'fair' and what is not. Sorry to say it but they know the game a lot better than the devs.
I'm tired of people justifying or calling something illegal because of what Flayra or some dev team member said. Just because they are on the dev team doesn't mean they know the game better than the community, and it shouldn't give them the authority to make things 'taboo' or not because of it. Besides, a lot of the time people on the dev team are retarded. Ari (one of the 'exterminators'!) told me that he could bhop as a Gorge at 600 ground speed. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about NS and bhopping will tell you that aside from some total bs circumstances (0 grav, messing around with serverside variables) this just is not possible. Also a lot of the time if you try to confront them or explain to them why they are wrong they just get real defensive and start insulting you. When I tried to correct him about this (politely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) he started insulting me (pretty badly, I'll see if I still have the logs) and saying that I knew nothing, and wouldn't even give me a link to a SS or movie (after he said he had some). Also he said I didn't know how to bhop properly (funny coming from him, I bet he would get MURDERED by any clanner, both in skill and bhopping). Anyway yeah hopefully this paragraph makes sense. In conclusion, ari needs to learn about NS, and the dev team isn't always right.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Sep 21 2004, 11:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Sep 21 2004, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Necrosis+Sep 21 2004, 03:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Necrosis @ Sep 21 2004, 03:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hate to scare you with this, but the DEVS SAY ITS EXPLOITING. Its not a matter of dumbing down, its a matter of exploiting. I'm willing to bet the top 5-10% of any group will do strange things, but that doesn't make me want to copy them. The devs don't want it in because as they see it its either an exploit or not in the spirit of the game. If you don't like that then thats unfortunate.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> k I don't really have an opinion on CC blocking but the devs aren't the ones who should be deciding what is legal and what is not. The players themselves should. The community, and to a larger extent, the clanning community should decide what is 'fair' and what is not. Sorry to say it but they know the game a lot better than the devs.
I'm tired of people justifying or calling something illegal because of what Flayra or some dev team member said. Just because they are on the dev team doesn't mean they know the game better than the community, and it shouldn't give them the authority to make things 'taboo' or not because of it. Besides, a lot of the time people on the dev team are retarded. Ari (one of the 'exterminators'!) told me that he could bhop as a Gorge at 600 ground speed. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about NS and bhopping will tell you that aside from some total bs circumstances (0 grav, messing around with serverside variables) this just is not possible. Also a lot of the time if you try to confront them or explain to them why they are wrong they just get real defensive and start insulting you. When I tried to correct him about this (politely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) he started insulting me (pretty badly, I'll see if I still have the logs) and saying that I knew nothing, and wouldn't even give me a link to a SS or movie (after he said he had some). Also he said I didn't know how to bhop properly (funny coming from him, I bet he would get MURDERED by any clanner, both in skill and bhopping). Anyway yeah hopefully this paragraph makes sense. In conclusion, ari needs to learn about NS, and the dev team isn't always right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its the same as with a picture, its the property of the person(s) who created it. And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property. Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it. Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them.
My two cents: CCB is evil. If the rines needed to block anything then there would be a "wall" build option.
<!--QuoteBegin-Faskalia+Sep 22 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Faskalia @ Sep 22 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its the same as with a picture, its the property of the person(s) who created it. And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property. Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it. Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I totally understand that the developers can do whatever they want with their game, but that doesn't mean they should. I wasn't saying that the developers should be barred from changing their own game, I was saying that they should listen to the (educated) community to determine what to do about x. Also, the educated community should be the ones determining what is 'fair', on subjects like bhopping, scripting, etc. (stuff that is in the game, but people debate if it's fair or not)
That's why blockscripts was a bad idea... 99% of the educated community disagrees with it, and I've seen PLENTY of anti-scripters who turned pro-script after they learned what they actually can and can't do. It was created out of ignorance. Bad call...
<!--QuoteBegin-jammno+Sep 20 2004, 04:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jammno @ Sep 20 2004, 04:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> CC blocking is not hard at all to do. Maybe if it required more skill to do, it would be accepted <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay, you try simultaneously medding a group of marines accurately, w/out spamming, and placing a CC in the correct place to block a doorway, in the 1-2 seconds a fade usually attacks. Add to that the fact that the only way to ensure a block is to drop a CC in every door in the room, cos you don't know which one he's leaving out of.
Yes, it takes absolutely no skill. <i>On it's own</i>. The reason it's hard is because of the fact that you have to be medding your marines to keep them alive, so they can kill the fade when you block it.
[/offtopic]
I agree with Nadagast, it's the point I was attempting to make in my original post, though I must say he made it remarkably better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Sep 22 2004, 09:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Sep 22 2004, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Faskalia+Sep 22 2004, 12:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Faskalia @ Sep 22 2004, 12:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its the same as with a picture, its the property of the person(s) who created it. And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property. Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it. Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I totally understand that the developers can do whatever they want with their game, but that doesn't mean they should. I wasn't saying that the developers should be barred from changing their own game, I was saying that they should listen to the (educated) community to determine what to do about x. Also, the educated community should be the ones determining what is 'fair', on subjects like bhopping, scripting, etc. (stuff that is in the game, but people debate if it's fair or not)
That's why blockscripts was a bad idea... 99% of the educated community disagrees with it, and I've seen PLENTY of anti-scripters who turned pro-script after they learned what they actually can and can't do. It was created out of ignorance. Bad call... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed, but how do you decide who belongs to the educated community? Btw. blocksripts is a cvar so its an advanced option for server admins, who prefer more noob friendly server settings. Just try playing tfc today, its awsome you get completely owned by a few good soldiers and medics of whom every single one uses scripts and autofire jumping. If valve would block certain scripts then the game would be more noob-friendly. I just think the devs wanted to stop ns from beeing a second tfc, which is currently dieing out. Many server use bots to attract players etc..
Though i dont like blockscripts i accept it and you should do the same if cc blocking will be disabled. Just accept it.
And dont bother arguing, i am one of those "inverted mouse" maniacs. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Btw. did you know that "SoF" (Soldier of Fortune) had an option to invert the x-axis as well as the y-axis. Gosh i always wanted to meet somebody who really used it. So if you are out there "Invert God" just PM me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Faskalia+Sep 22 2004, 09:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Faskalia @ Sep 22 2004, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Agreed, but how do you decide who belongs to the educated community? Btw. blocksripts is a cvar so its an advanced option for server admins, who prefer more noob friendly server settings. Just try playing tfc today, its awsome you get completely owned by a few good soldiers and medics of whom every single one uses scripts and autofire jumping. If valve would block certain scripts then the game would be more noob-friendly. I just think the devs wanted to stop ns from beeing a second tfc, which is currently dieing out. Many server use bots to attract players etc.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Educated means they know what they are talking about and don't make stupid assumptions (such as "3jump bhops for you!"). In basically every other game, this would be the middle/top tier clanners. But NS is weird. NS pub games are somehow in a way more satisfying than other games and these forums give pubbers a place to unite. This is something that doesn't happen in 90% of games, where the only real community (aside from some very small (relatively) server communities) is the clan base. I feel this has really hurt NS because a large chunk of these pubbers are just plain not educated about anything and will ignorantly accuse people of scripting/hacking... and they will have a huge community of equally ignorant people to back them up. Also the majority of them are unwilling to even listen to the argument that 'vets are just good' or 'scripts arent bad'... So back to the point, I'd include a small top tier of educated pubbers with the middle/top tier clanners in NS' case. That would be the educated community...
Also, I think you need to learn something about TFC before you comment about it. It's dying because it is over 5 years old (besides, it has more clans than NS does). Not because it's a bad game... I played it competetively for nearly 5 years and let me tell you, you aren't getting owned because of scripts. There is absolutely no reason to have a 'autofire jump' script... I don't even know what it would do but it's worthless, trust me. TFC is JUST LIKE NS. Come on let me get this through to you. The only scripts that will effect your gameplay are a 3jump for bhopping. PERIOD. Nobody uses scripts that you think they do. There are NO EFFECTIVE conc jump scripts, autojumpfire (WTH?) scripts, or anything else. The only ones are 3jumps for bhop... Some people use autoreload scripts (automatically reloads when you stop firing) but NOBODY CARES... it's just a preference there is nothing to gain. Any other scripts in TFC are purely cosmetic (net graph and scores with 1 keypress for example). I hate how the NS community has such a taboo idea about scripts that any other mod people play, they immediately think scripts are why they are getting owned. Also, a large chunk of non-bot players who still pub TFC are clanners who have been playing for a long time and are good.
Argh it's so hard for me to convey this when people are just so blind about things... In all my 5 years of clanning TFC, I've never even HEARD of a 'autofire jump' script. Does it fire when you jump? How would that be useful?
Also please, tell me what scripts those 'good soldiers' are using to own you with? How do you script rocketlauncher aim?
In conclusion mp_blockscripts is plain stupidity created out of ignorance and fixed by voogru who got owned by someone using a 'leap/bite' script (NOBODY USES THEM WOW FOR THE 100TH TIME). Sad... really.
Edit: Yeah I'd say the worst thing to happen to NS was these forums... <b>don't give newbies a place to organize.</b>
The only autofirejump script I can think of what Faskalia is talking about is the _special jump script where you just hold down the jump key and it'll jump everytime you land. _special was accidently let back into NS when the new beta came out, I believe the devs are fixing it and will fix it in the next patch.
Yeah well _special is kinda lame... but IMO it's _better_ to use a 3jump in TFC anyway. If you go over 170% speed, you get reset to like 105% speed.
But _special is sorta accepted in America... like 50/50 but the people who don't like it aren't nearly as freaking extreme as anti-scripters here... and they realize what scripts (or _special in this case) can and can't do. They are EDUCATED. As far as I know, scripts that don't use _special are accepted by EVERYONE WHO PLAYS TFC.
Well i am not an expert fpr any FPS, but in general good player. Eye-Hand thing, you know. I consider myself educated though i dont fit your idea of the educated gamer. <a href='http://games.surftown.dk/stats/index.php?mode=playerinfo&player=21513' target='_blank'>Stats</a> <a href='http://games.surftown.dk/stats/index.php?mode=players&game=ns-combat' target='_blank'>Stats</a>these are my surftown stats. While writing this i was listed rank 23. I have a positiv K/D ratio. I have never been member of a clan. I played TFC for 2 years regularly. And in my experience its an extreme game. Skilled players usually ment: Lots of soldiers,medics, one shotgun hwg (bhopping of course), one sniper and one engineer. Pros just considerd classes such as the pyro and others as not worth wasting their time on. And scripts were rather common in tfc as well as air moves etc.etc. not to mention those incredible air rocket skills. (I worship everyone who is able to air rocket 4 ppl in a row. Its just awsome that some ppl can do it.
I am using scripts myself hence i dont think they are wrong but i mainly play to have fun and not to get insanly skilled. NS is a fun game it has nice graphics and great classes/races. But why does a gorge need to bhop? Why does a soldier survive when he fires a rocket at his feet? Imagine they would change the rocket thing. Many pros would screw the new soldier they would never play that class again. Its the attidue i dont like about most clanners. Gaming is about fun and not about completely owning that server with mad skills. Hell i will stick to the lerk, even if you nerf him more than ever in b6 cause i love to fly around the whole map and take out lone gl/jp ramobs.
Skills: My first FPS was doom. I played it completely with the keyboard. Then the next big step was quake. I started off the same way i did with doom. But somehow i sucked at mp. So i changed the config and stared using the mouse. "inverted" I remember exactly that you needed to hold a button in order to activate mouselook. The next BIG thing was quake III arena. And it still remains the best MP shooter ever. It was just skill vs skill. If you can better aim you survive, if not you will die.
Half-Life mp. Its nice its fun but the physics allow you to do crazy things and if i remember correctly scripting is more important in hl than in quake3. I never felt the need for any script in quake. But half-life: If you want to kill you have to use certain scripts.
BTW if you want to give the "power" over NS completely to the "educated players". Would you also support the following: Only ppl with a diploma are aloud to vote and become politicians? You sir are saying the same thing. You want to give the power over smth to the minority, thats not democratic at all.
Faskilia, what scripts do you need in HL to 'get those kills'? A 3jump is the only one I can think of, the rest of them are merely preferences... In Quake you don't need a 3jump because if you press and hold jump while in the air you will automatically jump as soon as you hit the ground. Other than this script to make up for this flaw in the HL engine, I don't really see any others that help you (possibly a pistol script).
Buildings were not intended to block retreating aliens. (as said by the dev team)
Buildings can block aliens.
Therefore, using buildings to block lifeforms is an exploit.
Why would you make a serverside variable if you (being the dev team) viewed something as an exploit? That'd be like making a serverside option for aliens being able to build several RTS on one node or having a sever-side option for marines not having to reload next to an armory or not. Both were viewed as exploits (as CC blocking now is, by the dev team) and were completely annilated. That'd just be so stupid to make sv_allowmultiplealiennodes or sv_allownoreload just as sv_allowccblock would be from a logical point of view. It seems logic is lost on some people.
Remember when there was a command line to see through walls in HL a long time ago? Wouldn't it be redicuelous if Valve made it a serverside variable to disable the command or not? Because you like it and it takes skill doesn't justify anything. I could follow your arguement with I like murdering and it takes skill so therefore I should be permitted to murder without consequence.
Comments
although the "you have to build it fully before you can recycle" suggestion holds promise. A comm will now have to think whether he should waste a marine's time to recycle it, or allow it to stay and be destroyed by the next wave. That way the comm would trap and kill an onos who tried to do a hit and run, but he's also trapping his own marines in the base for a time.
Hmm, can a CC be used as a cover against WoLs? I mean drop one in the line of fire, have a marine build and weld it while another marine nades the WoL? Or do OCs target marines first and structures second?
Do what you must to get the result you desire.
although the "you have to build it fully before you can recycle" suggestion holds promise. A comm will now have to think whether he should waste a marine's time to recycle it, or allow it to stay and be destroyed by the next wave. That way the comm would trap and kill an onos who tried to do a hit and run, but he's also trapping his own marines in the base for a time.
Hmm, can a CC be used as a cover against WoLs? I mean drop one in the line of fire, have a marine build and weld it while another marine nades the WoL? Or do OCs target marines first and structures second? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In Warcraft the good human players position their buildings in a certain way to fend off harassment early game. Humans suffer from early game harassment and with a good base layout you can surround and kill anything that tries to go deep in your town. It also protects your ranged from melee for awile while they pound on the millita. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
mainly what i have to say has already been said.
i LOVE the idea of unbuilt structures having no hp, but the only problem with that is that one skulk could own a siege attempt.
oh well, you could just blame the blockers for that.
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out.
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The development team isn't all mighty.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.
I think I'll post an idea in the suggestion forum now to stop blocking.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-read my post.. It states we are looking into alternatives.
Fix the "exploit" in whichever way you (the dev team) sees fit.
Then make it a server-side variable.
Discuss.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Re-read my post.. It states we are looking into alternatives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just make buildings noclip until they are actually +used... and then have their health scale from like 25%->100% instead of 100%->100% as it is now.
Ex: Comm drops a comm chair
the comm chair is etheral (like a cloaked alien building) until someone actually +uses it, and it starts with 2500 HP instead of 10,000.
Do what you must to get the result you desire.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want your money. I should kill you? Sorry logically you might be right but ethically that's so wrong it's not even funny.
Anyone using this method of structure blocking is using an exploit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=14&t=81158' target='_blank'>in the eyes of Zunni and the rest of the dev team</a> anyways.
That pretty much solves this debate and will do so permanently when the fix (whatever that may be) comes out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The development team isn't all mighty.
If they don't fix it, it will be used.
If they feel so strongly against it they should do somthing about it.
I think I'll post an idea in the suggestion forum now to stop blocking. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
As Zunni said ... re-read the post. They are doing something about it.
I heard the idea of structures teleporting in via a kind of IP you have to build first get good feedback but that's for I and S.
If the dev team don't want exploiting in, then it will NOT be in. Why put in a server side variable for something thats not meant to be in the game in the first place? We're not talking about harmless scripting here, we're talking about the NS concept which has little if anything to do with anyone outside the dev team.
Anyways what about making the comm "chair" be like a comm "pod" where the person is laying down in it. Then you woun't have to worry about blocking at all. Yay.
If the dev team don't want exploiting in, then it will NOT be in. Why put in a server side variable for something thats not meant to be in the game in the first place? We're not talking about harmless scripting here, we're talking about the NS concept which has little if anything to do with anyone outside the dev team. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when did the devs not listen to the playerbase?
This community is going the wrong way imo.
Stop dumbing down the game, have you noticed that only the top 5-10% of com's cc block?
Seriously, how many pub coms have you seen cc block?
How many times have you seen a CC block in a CAL/CPL match?
First it's CC blocking, next it will be scripting, with bhopping following shortly after.
Remember when CS was actually fun to play, in 1.3? That was because there was actually an element of skill involved to do well. Keep NS going down this route and teh NS community will turn into the stagnant kiddie filled one that currently dominates CS.
The reason good players can do these kind of things is because it's hard to do. Bhopping, strafe jump, glides, leap/bite, dodging as marine, accurate medding, CC blocking.
The moment you start removing the element of skill you are turning NS down the road to ruin.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Stop dumbing down the game, have you noticed that only the top 5-10% of com's cc block?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hate to scare you with this, but the DEVS SAY ITS EXPLOITING. Its not a matter of dumbing down, its a matter of exploiting. I'm willing to bet the top 5-10% of any group will do strange things, but that doesn't make me want to copy them. The devs don't want it in because as they see it its either an exploit or not in the spirit of the game. If you don't like that then thats unfortunate.
In addition, I think the top 5-10% of comms don't *need* CC blocking to win.. so they're not going to miss it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
an element of skill involved to do well
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Skill"......... button pressing? Get a sense of your own importance, button pushing is not a skill and never will be. Second, would you not agree that by removing exploits you do in fact make the game more reliant on skill? People will have to learn to bhop properly without 3jump binds, they'll have to learn to shoot the pistol faster without wacky scripts. There's more "skill" in NS now than ever before.
Just because something is allegedly hard to do doesn't mean its a good basis for its inclusion or removal. Its all about the CONCEPT. The NS balance concept allows for CC walls in corridors, it does NOT allow for cc blocking in order to catch an Onos by surprise. With the future (we hope) removal of exploitative blocking you are SURE to see an increase in player "skill" because they'll have to learn to kill the Onos properly, without the crutch of a magic CC appearing for it to crouch over.
PHEER STATIONARY OBJECTS!!!1
k I don't really have an opinion on CC blocking but the devs aren't the ones who should be deciding what is legal and what is not. The players themselves should. The community, and to a larger extent, the clanning community should decide what is 'fair' and what is not. Sorry to say it but they know the game a lot better than the devs.
I'm tired of people justifying or calling something illegal because of what Flayra or some dev team member said. Just because they are on the dev team doesn't mean they know the game better than the community, and it shouldn't give them the authority to make things 'taboo' or not because of it. Besides, a lot of the time people on the dev team are retarded. Ari (one of the 'exterminators'!) told me that he could bhop as a Gorge at 600 ground speed. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about NS and bhopping will tell you that aside from some total bs circumstances (0 grav, messing around with serverside variables) this just is not possible. Also a lot of the time if you try to confront them or explain to them why they are wrong they just get real defensive and start insulting you. When I tried to correct him about this (politely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) he started insulting me (pretty badly, I'll see if I still have the logs) and saying that I knew nothing, and wouldn't even give me a link to a SS or movie (after he said he had some). Also he said I didn't know how to bhop properly (funny coming from him, I bet he would get MURDERED by any clanner, both in skill and bhopping). Anyway yeah hopefully this paragraph makes sense. In conclusion, ari needs to learn about NS, and the dev team isn't always right.
k I don't really have an opinion on CC blocking but the devs aren't the ones who should be deciding what is legal and what is not. The players themselves should. The community, and to a larger extent, the clanning community should decide what is 'fair' and what is not. Sorry to say it but they know the game a lot better than the devs.
I'm tired of people justifying or calling something illegal because of what Flayra or some dev team member said. Just because they are on the dev team doesn't mean they know the game better than the community, and it shouldn't give them the authority to make things 'taboo' or not because of it. Besides, a lot of the time people on the dev team are retarded. Ari (one of the 'exterminators'!) told me that he could bhop as a Gorge at 600 ground speed. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about NS and bhopping will tell you that aside from some total bs circumstances (0 grav, messing around with serverside variables) this just is not possible. Also a lot of the time if you try to confront them or explain to them why they are wrong they just get real defensive and start insulting you. When I tried to correct him about this (politely <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) he started insulting me (pretty badly, I'll see if I still have the logs) and saying that I knew nothing, and wouldn't even give me a link to a SS or movie (after he said he had some). Also he said I didn't know how to bhop properly (funny coming from him, I bet he would get MURDERED by any clanner, both in skill and bhopping). Anyway yeah hopefully this paragraph makes sense. In conclusion, ari needs to learn about NS, and the dev team isn't always right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its the same as with a picture, its the property of the person(s) who created it.
And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property.
Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it.
Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them.
My two cents: CCB is evil. If the rines needed to block anything then there would be a "wall" build option.
It's just blocking vents that should be removed.
And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property.
Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it.
Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally understand that the developers can do whatever they want with their game, but that doesn't mean they should. I wasn't saying that the developers should be barred from changing their own game, I was saying that they should listen to the (educated) community to determine what to do about x. Also, the educated community should be the ones determining what is 'fair', on subjects like bhopping, scripting, etc. (stuff that is in the game, but people debate if it's fair or not)
That's why blockscripts was a bad idea... 99% of the educated community disagrees with it, and I've seen PLENTY of anti-scripters who turned pro-script after they learned what they actually can and can't do. It was created out of ignorance. Bad call...
Okay, you try simultaneously medding a group of marines accurately, w/out spamming, and placing a CC in the correct place to block a doorway, in the 1-2 seconds a fade usually attacks. Add to that the fact that the only way to ensure a block is to drop a CC in every door in the room, cos you don't know which one he's leaving out of.
Yes, it takes absolutely no skill. <i>On it's own</i>.
The reason it's hard is because of the fact that you have to be medding your marines to keep them alive, so they can kill the fade when you block it.
[/offtopic]
I agree with Nadagast, it's the point I was attempting to make in my original post, though I must say he made it remarkably better.
And if Rembrand would have wanted to burn some of his pictures no one could have stopped him, cause its his property.
Same counts for the devs. If they wanted to exchange the aliens for a dog,vultur,pig,cow we would not be allowed to hinder them cause its their property. They invented,created it so they can do whatever pleases them with it.
Hell they could even have marines throw popcorn instead of nades and we still were not allowed to stop them. And only cause there are more people in the community it doesnt mean that we are right.
Btw if you asked the community about cc blocking you would get 2 opinions (good and bad) but if you asked for solutions you would discover hundreds of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally understand that the developers can do whatever they want with their game, but that doesn't mean they should. I wasn't saying that the developers should be barred from changing their own game, I was saying that they should listen to the (educated) community to determine what to do about x. Also, the educated community should be the ones determining what is 'fair', on subjects like bhopping, scripting, etc. (stuff that is in the game, but people debate if it's fair or not)
That's why blockscripts was a bad idea... 99% of the educated community disagrees with it, and I've seen PLENTY of anti-scripters who turned pro-script after they learned what they actually can and can't do. It was created out of ignorance. Bad call... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, but how do you decide who belongs to the educated community?
Btw. blocksripts is a cvar so its an advanced option for server admins, who prefer more noob friendly server settings.
Just try playing tfc today, its awsome you get completely owned by a few good soldiers and medics of whom every single one uses scripts and autofire jumping. If valve would block certain scripts then the game would be more noob-friendly.
I just think the devs wanted to stop ns from beeing a second tfc, which is currently dieing out. Many server use bots to attract players etc..
Though i dont like blockscripts i accept it and you should do the same if cc blocking will be disabled. Just accept it.
And dont bother arguing, i am one of those "inverted mouse" maniacs. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Btw. did you know that "SoF" (Soldier of Fortune) had an option to invert the x-axis as well as the y-axis. Gosh i always wanted to meet somebody who really used it. So if you are out there "Invert God" just PM me.
Btw. blocksripts is a cvar so its an advanced option for server admins, who prefer more noob friendly server settings.
Just try playing tfc today, its awsome you get completely owned by a few good soldiers and medics of whom every single one uses scripts and autofire jumping. If valve would block certain scripts then the game would be more noob-friendly.
I just think the devs wanted to stop ns from beeing a second tfc, which is currently dieing out. Many server use bots to attract players etc.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Educated means they know what they are talking about and don't make stupid assumptions (such as "3jump bhops for you!"). In basically every other game, this would be the middle/top tier clanners. But NS is weird. NS pub games are somehow in a way more satisfying than other games and these forums give pubbers a place to unite. This is something that doesn't happen in 90% of games, where the only real community (aside from some very small (relatively) server communities) is the clan base. I feel this has really hurt NS because a large chunk of these pubbers are just plain not educated about anything and will ignorantly accuse people of scripting/hacking... and they will have a huge community of equally ignorant people to back them up. Also the majority of them are unwilling to even listen to the argument that 'vets are just good' or 'scripts arent bad'... So back to the point, I'd include a small top tier of educated pubbers with the middle/top tier clanners in NS' case. That would be the educated community...
Also, I think you need to learn something about TFC before you comment about it. It's dying because it is over 5 years old (besides, it has more clans than NS does). Not because it's a bad game... I played it competetively for nearly 5 years and let me tell you, you aren't getting owned because of scripts. There is absolutely no reason to have a 'autofire jump' script... I don't even know what it would do but it's worthless, trust me. TFC is JUST LIKE NS. Come on let me get this through to you. The only scripts that will effect your gameplay are a 3jump for bhopping. PERIOD. Nobody uses scripts that you think they do. There are NO EFFECTIVE conc jump scripts, autojumpfire (WTH?) scripts, or anything else. The only ones are 3jumps for bhop... Some people use autoreload scripts (automatically reloads when you stop firing) but NOBODY CARES... it's just a preference there is nothing to gain. Any other scripts in TFC are purely cosmetic (net graph and scores with 1 keypress for example). I hate how the NS community has such a taboo idea about scripts that any other mod people play, they immediately think scripts are why they are getting owned. Also, a large chunk of non-bot players who still pub TFC are clanners who have been playing for a long time and are good.
Argh it's so hard for me to convey this when people are just so blind about things... In all my 5 years of clanning TFC, I've never even HEARD of a 'autofire jump' script. Does it fire when you jump? How would that be useful?
Also please, tell me what scripts those 'good soldiers' are using to own you with? How do you script rocketlauncher aim?
In conclusion mp_blockscripts is plain stupidity created out of ignorance and fixed by voogru who got owned by someone using a 'leap/bite' script (NOBODY USES THEM WOW FOR THE 100TH TIME). Sad... really.
Edit: Yeah I'd say the worst thing to happen to NS was these forums... <b>don't give newbies a place to organize.</b>
But _special is sorta accepted in America... like 50/50 but the people who don't like it aren't nearly as freaking extreme as anti-scripters here... and they realize what scripts (or _special in this case) can and can't do. They are EDUCATED. As far as I know, scripts that don't use _special are accepted by EVERYONE WHO PLAYS TFC.
Lets accept it and move on. I still disagree, but its there call.
If you don't like it disable it on your server, if you don't mind ,enable it.
Just set it to disabled as default, everybody wins.
Well i am not an expert fpr any FPS, but in general good player. Eye-Hand thing, you know. I consider myself educated though i dont fit your idea of the educated gamer. <a href='http://games.surftown.dk/stats/index.php?mode=playerinfo&player=21513' target='_blank'>Stats</a> <a href='http://games.surftown.dk/stats/index.php?mode=players&game=ns-combat' target='_blank'>Stats</a>these are my surftown stats. While writing this i was listed rank 23.
I have a positiv K/D ratio. I have never been member of a clan. I played TFC for 2 years regularly. And in my experience its an extreme game. Skilled players usually ment: Lots of soldiers,medics, one shotgun hwg (bhopping of course), one sniper and one engineer. Pros just considerd classes such as the pyro and others as not worth wasting their time on. And scripts were rather common in tfc as well as air moves etc.etc. not to mention those incredible air rocket skills. (I worship everyone who is able to air rocket 4 ppl in a row. Its just awsome that some ppl can do it.
I am using scripts myself hence i dont think they are wrong but i mainly play to have fun and not to get insanly skilled. NS is a fun game it has nice graphics and great classes/races. But why does a gorge need to bhop? Why does a soldier survive when he fires a rocket at his feet? Imagine they would change the rocket thing. Many pros would screw the new soldier they would never play that class again.
Its the attidue i dont like about most clanners. Gaming is about fun and not about completely owning that server with mad skills. Hell i will stick to the lerk, even if you nerf him more than ever in b6 cause i love to fly around the whole map and take out lone gl/jp ramobs.
Skills: My first FPS was doom. I played it completely with the keyboard. Then the next big step was quake. I started off the same way i did with doom. But somehow i sucked at mp. So i changed the config and stared using the mouse. "inverted"
I remember exactly that you needed to hold a button in order to activate mouselook.
The next BIG thing was quake III arena. And it still remains the best MP shooter ever. It was just skill vs skill. If you can better aim you survive, if not you will die.
Half-Life mp. Its nice its fun but the physics allow you to do crazy things and if i remember correctly scripting is more important in hl than in quake3. I never felt the need for any script in quake. But half-life: If you want to kill you have to use certain scripts.
BTW if you want to give the "power" over NS completely to the "educated players".
Would you also support the following: Only ppl with a diploma are aloud to vote and become politicians? You sir are saying the same thing. You want to give the power over smth to the minority, thats not democratic at all.
Buildings were not intended to block retreating aliens. (as said by the dev team)
Buildings can block aliens.
Therefore, using buildings to block lifeforms is an exploit.
Why would you make a serverside variable if you (being the dev team) viewed something as an exploit? That'd be like making a serverside option for aliens being able to build several RTS on one node or having a sever-side option for marines not having to reload next to an armory or not. Both were viewed as exploits (as CC blocking now is, by the dev team) and were completely annilated. That'd just be so stupid to make sv_allowmultiplealiennodes or sv_allownoreload just as sv_allowccblock would be from a logical point of view. It seems logic is lost on some people.
Remember when there was a command line to see through walls in HL a long time ago? Wouldn't it be redicuelous if Valve made it a serverside variable to disable the command or not? Because you like it and it takes skill doesn't justify anything. I could follow your arguement with I like murdering and it takes skill so therefore I should be permitted to murder without consequence.
It's called logic and it owns you.