ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of DOOOM+Nov 10 2004, 08:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of DOOOM @ Nov 10 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By talking with someone who helps run a community server. and is in a sucsessfull clan <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean like...oh I dunno, an admin of the Warm Fuzzy Land NS community who happens to also be in the Wnf clan? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You know, thre really, REALLY needs to be an "official" tutorial to scripting. I mean, Flayra has already stated it's part of the game, so why not give official help for it? Half of the the so-called script problem would be gone.
p.s Thank the lord WFL has mp_bs 0. All mature players with good attitudes welcome <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Possibly you could personally sponsor someone from this forum that you think would be able to start and lead a reasonable discussion on the topic in your forum? A post and/or quote from you endorsing the thread would be good enough to keep flames out and discussion in. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-5kyh16h91+Nov 11 2004, 03:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (5kyh16h91 @ Nov 11 2004, 03:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> /me takes point, folds it into a paper airplane, and sails it over your head /me thanks Gem for that line <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, Gemmy is so cute <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for my opinion being moot, at least I have a justifiable opinion, rather than endlessly repeating excuses and evading the questions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances ---> Ask for devs to fix the game ---> Nothing happens, clanners still want to pub occasionaly so they play on ignorant servers ----> They get banned/abused/mistreated ----> Clanners ask for people to open their eyes -----> They are told to make their own server -------> Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Create a low-slot server and one problem is solved.
I prefer small games, also because of unbalanced large games. I know that many players prefer the high-slot servers and those servers leech to much players from other servers, but you and me aren't alone by prefering a good, balanced game on a higher level, so that your server should find an audience.
Imo this discussion is almost pointless because most of the player's minds you want to change will never visit this forum. They just play the game for fun and don't take it that seriously.
So far i agree with Necrosis, they can't hear you or won't listen, so go out there and show them a better experience by creating better servers with your rules.
Newbs whine, Pros adapt (no offense, hope you'll get my point) to quote some good players overhere^^ so plz stop discussing, adapt to the situation and start work.
Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances ---> Ask for devs to fix the game ---> Nothing happens, clanners still want to pub occasionaly so they play on ignorant servers ----> They get banned/abused/mistreated ----> Clanners ask for people to open their eyes -----> They are told to make their own server -------> Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Create a low-slot server and one problem is solved.
I prefer small games, also because of unbalanced large games. I know that many players prefer the high-slot servers and those servers leech to much players from other servers, but you and me aren't alone by prefering a good, balanced game on a higher level, so that your server should find an audience.
Imo this discussion is almost pointless because most of the player's minds you want to change will never visit this forum. They just play the game for fun and don't take it that seriously.
So far i agree with Necrosis, they can't hear you or won't listen, so go out there and show them a better experience by creating better servers with your rules.
Newbs whine, Pros adapt (no offense, hope you'll get my point) to quote some good players overhere^^ so plz stop discussing, adapt to the situation and start work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Please adapt to this:
/player joins server /player can aim! /player gets banned
Next you can just make a low-slot server as low player amounts with less teamwork isn't fun
/player joins server /player can aim! /player gets banned
Next you can just make a low-slot server as low player amounts with less teamwork isn't fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, that happens sometimes, also to me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> You can change this with your own server, that is my point. Moreover this low-slot server is aimed towards skilled people who like communication, teamwork, balanced amount of players and don't like the usual big game teamdeathmatch.
Just to clarify, i mean 12-14 players with low slot servers, everything higher seems boring to me because lag, luck and unbalance increases, but i respect the people that like to play this style. It's just about (re-)creating other kinds of play styles like you and others want and show them to the player-base to persuade them by acting not by discussing.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Nov 10 2004, 02:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Nov 10 2004, 02:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Hieyeck+Nov 10 2004, 01:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hieyeck @ Nov 10 2004, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> furthermore, another part of my post states fairly clearly: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if nadagast has the option of using a mousewheel and macros, and which nadagast also says he can use <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can do it without the script if I use the mwheel... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> then why the gripe about 'mp_bs 1'? maybe he also wants to use some other scripts to exploit other parts of the engine? I'm not accusing you of anything nadagast and from watching the numerous demos submitted, you seem to be doing fine without them, but this IS one logical path that can be taken. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i already asked and i'll ask again, why gripe about 'bs 1' if you dont need it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What other scripts can I use to 'exploit other parts of the engine'? Please, your knowledge of scripting is laughable at best.
By the way, the reason I argue this is because of principle, not that I need scripts to play on your server. You're basing your conclusion off of false information, leading to a false conclusion. It's not your fault, anyone would do it, just recognize that you don't know that much about scripting and ask to be educated or learn for yourself. That's ALL I want. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> again, you've said yourself that you dont need scripts. why gripe? and why are you STILL attacking my apparent knowledge?
i suppose it can be safely assumed you're god, but as lightingmonkey has pointed out we treat each player as a seperate case, and i for one, also treat each player that joins our server for the first time with a clean slate. Because i disagree agree with you strongly, that suddenly makes me stupid and EVERYTHING i say immediatly becomes "false" and/or "a logical fallicy".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can you show me one of these 'exploitative scripts'?
Again, other than _special, which will be gone in B6, and there are ways to block it w/o mp_bs.
Edit: Hieyeck, nearly the entire clan community (as far as I remember anyway) was against scripting when I started playing back in 1.04. Admittedly the _special pistol script was much worse back then, but still, the clanning community has come far in terms of how educated they are about scripts... The pub community can do it too. I'm not saying that the clanners are necessarily right in their opinion about mp_bs, but to call them closed-minded is foolish when they have already made the transition<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will always be new innovations, and these include innovations in exploiting the engine through scripting. I've already stated in my post <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we are leaving mp_bs set at 1 because we wish to cover all our bases and at the same time slow down any new exploits that might come forth. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please read it in its entirety. I'm trying my best to keep this debate moving and on track. I'd appreciate the same. Because you don't know about ____ script does not mean it doesn't exist. Unforrtunately, there is no ultimate authority in scripts, so NO ONE knows what might be used in a game. i'll emphasize this again: We just want to cover our all our bases.
On top of that, I NEVER claimed anyone was closed-minded, I simply mean that its possible for both sides to be wrong and stubborn. And since EVERYONE seems to be bashing at pubs - specifically us at G4B2S, I was merely pointing out the other possibility. Anything, no matter how unlikely it may seem, is possible. A little bit of paraphrasing on my part, but i feel this quote - albeit it being the base of quantum mechanics - applies well to this situation. We've mentioned this before in g4b2s discussions, but because CAL and clans do it DOES NOT mean it is neccesarily right from our view.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hieyeck+Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hieyeck @ Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There will always be new innovations, and these include innovations in exploiting the engine through scripting. I've already stated in my post <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we are leaving mp_bs set at 1 because we wish to cover all our bases and at the same time slow down any new exploits that might come forth. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please read it in its entirety. I'm trying my best to keep this debate moving and on track. I'd appreciate the same. Because you don't know about ____ script does not mean it doesn't exist. Unforrtunately, there is no ultimate authority in scripts, so NO ONE knows what might be used in a game. i'll emphasize this again: We just want to cover our all our bases. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, I see. Since it is impossible to prove that something might come from someone somewhere for some reason some time in the future, we should imprison all scientists and slay all philosophers. Not to mention free speech, I mean somewhere for some reason some time in the future some man called something might start preaching to the people and bad things might happen.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kobayashi+Nov 10 2004, 08:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kobayashi @ Nov 10 2004, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some clanners beleive that all pubbers simply don't get what they are saying. And they refuse to beleive that *gasp* a pubber could actaully know about scripting! *end gasp*
Some clanners also say they're trying to 'teach' when they just call people nubs for not knowing anything, in a very arrogant attitude. In fact, there are many instances in this thread where some seem to think that the problem lies solely with pubbers. Mr. Ben and Amplifier both seem to think so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true that some clanners believe that all pubbers simply don't get what they are saying though there are a lot more open minded ones, even ones who you think that hates all pubbers. The reason why clanners are a lot more openminded to pubbers is because, I guess one reason why this is such a hotly discussed issue, public play is the source of a good competitive scene. Yes, you read right, the public scene is very important to our competitive scene and we're afraid of what the quality of the public scene is changing to. When there are less and less prospects to be recruited because they don't like the clan scene, don't care for the clan scene, heard bad thing s about the clan scenes, then what ends up happening is the competitive scene begins to recycle itself. Clans just reforming over and over again, while more players slowly slip away, eventually there aren't enough players to recycle or even hold a competitive scene together. Now I know a few of you could care less if that happens because you think that NS will be perfectly fine without a clan scene, but from what I know, without an active clan scene, the game will slowly die.
The arrogance of clanners is indeed there and has always been there, not just in the NS Community but in all other competitive communities, whether it is on computer games or real life activities. Where there is real competitiveness, there is arrogance because most skilled competitors have or develop pride and ego. That is the reason why clanners come down as arrogant and condenscending, though some try to control it more often than not. Don't think they are only arrogant and condenscending to the public community, in fact I can safely say that they are <b>more</b> condenscending and arrogant against each other. It's something that all competitive players have tried to reign in, even Forlorn. Most of the time I've seen Forlorn try to post well explained and reasoned posts here in the public forums, with a lot less condenscending attitude than say from what I've seen either in #cri private forums, #cri ventrilo channel, what have you when he was in #cri. Don't think we're not trying to fix ourselves because we know if we don't make ourselves appealing to the public play, our major source of players will become nonexistant, and competitive play will also become nonexistant.
<!--QuoteBegin-Suicidal Tendencies+Nov 10 2004, 09:08 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Suicidal Tendencies @ Nov 10 2004, 09:08 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3. Fit rather to the "general player", someone who comes home after work, kicks back, and plays a few games of NS with some regulars in our servers, not freting about commanding strats or the newest models or fashions of gameplay. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Suicidal Tendencies Posted: Nov 10 2004+ 09:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Suicidal Tendencies Posted: Nov 10 2004 @ 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> He was in my server bunnyhopping (it was actually another term and might have been a different technique), and I told him to stop because it was irritating the rest of the players, he told me it was "his nature, why would he want to stop that?" My belief is that if you come to my server, you are held to the responsiblity to following my rules and my requests. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think picking option #3 is also great for servers that are more relaxed and less focused on competitiveness, I know it's definately more fun for the average joe to go on those servers because he won't get torn to shreds because either he doesn't have the time to put into the game or he just isn't good, even if he tries. I'm all for having a lot of servers like this. I think this thread is being misread into thinking that clanners want to to change all the public servers into competitive recruiting boot camps, that is something we definately do <b>not</b> want to do, it's not good for the game, this leads me to the second quote. I understand a lot of people don't like bunnyhopping, however like Flayra said its in the game to help balance the game. I also understand that the server rules and requests should be followed, I respect that, even at Lunixmonster even though they apparently saw it differently. I've played on your servers a few times and respected all the rules, sometimes it was fun, other times it was fustrating. What I want to discuss in the second quote is the part about asking him to stop because it was irritating the players. I agree that if the players are irritated, yes, please ask the person to stop. I know when I went onto your servers and faded, players got discouraged and the admins told me to just go permagorge or something, I agreed. However, I believe as a server admin of this great mod, your responsibility doesn't stop there. A second step is required, you need to ask the public players on your server <b>why</b> they are irritated. You need to inform them that bunnyhopping is a very valid skill to use in the game of NS and that it's one of the essential skills of good skulking. This way the ones who don't know or understand bunny hopping can be informed, if they inquire more about it, feel free to direct them to various places like #nslearn or #nsguides, I'm sure they will learn a great deal more there as well, not just about bunny hopping, but about NS game play. So as you can see, you're not part of the competitive scene nor are you promoting it, but you are part of the NS community and you are helping promote the various aspect of it.
As for Necrosis's posts and emphasis about servers and making your own, it's one possible solution but it's not a good solution. The rift will still be there, only it'll just cement it. There will be the side that hates competitive NS and the people who are involved who just stays in that camp and those servers forever, trying to recruit people to their side. Then there's the second camp of competitive players who strive to play their best with their own servers, trying to recruit players to their camp. Ultimately, the second camp loses because new players will always be discouraged when they get whomped all the time after they just join the game. So Necrosis's solution though it might seem logical, only helps widen the rift between the two communities right now and is a very bad idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hieyeck+ Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hieyeck @ Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> On top of that, I NEVER claimed anyone was closed-minded, I simply mean that its possible for both sides to be wrong and stubborn. And since EVERYONE seems to be bashing at pubs - specifically us at G4B2S, I was merely pointing out the other possibility. Anything, no matter how unlikely it may seem, is possible. A little bit of paraphrasing on my part, but i feel this quote - albeit it being the base of quantum mechanics - applies well to this situation. We've mentioned this before in g4b2s discussions, but because CAL and clans do it DOES NOT mean it is neccesarily right from our view. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pub bashing wasn't the point of this thread, nor was the purpose of this thread to change your server mp_blockscript variable, nor was it to say whatever CAL doesn't ban shouldn't be banned. Those were just side effects of this thread because of the topic, those subjects would eventually be breached and talked about. It's too bad that a portion of this thread got sidetracked into using evidence about pubs/scripts/rules. As for knowledge, the reason why competitive players have a problem about knowledge is that we believe server admins especially should be knowledgeable about the game. It's like being a CS admin and not knowing what hacks do and whatnot, so they quickly ban people who are just really good players. Knowledge is the most important aspect of being an admin, because as an admin, you also represent the NS Community. I'm not saying your knowledge is right or wrong because I have never spoken to you before or read your responses on the G4B2S forums.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Nov 11 2004, 11:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Nov 11 2004, 11:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sU. Gold = Forlorn. I'm not sure what his stats off some random server have to do with anything though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pointing out the drama that is put into too many posts.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
This is more of a not-so-off-topic post than anything else, but here' goes:
Remember that "Clanning" forum that we discussed quite a while ago? Why not do differently: Right now we have Clan Recruitment. But what if we just make a "Clanning" forum with 2 forums: Clan Recruitment, and Individuals for Hire(or something of the such). They would both be moderated, and people just post contact info, a little bio, their specialties, where they usually play, the such. It'd help get the clan scene back on its feet- I and many others have been trying to start clans for quite a while, but sadly we can almost never find any more than 2-3 people. This forum would give the chance for people to spec others, without becoming a total hate forum(thanks to the moderated aspect).
As for the rift, I remember someone mentioning a page ago that the problem is both clanners and pubbers. While thats true, notice its the clanners initiating the "Can we do this better?" here- I've noticed on a whole the clanning scene trying to improve its image, without getting great results because of a unopen public scene. While the clanning scene isn't perfect, or isn't even near its goal, its definately on the way. The pub scene though, definately needs to be more open to the idea that clanners are good people, and that the clanning helps them as much as it would if they were in one. So now, while clanners work on themselves, their asking the pub community to do the same, so we can end up being one big happy family(or at least one that won't ban eachother for getting sg'd in the face, or call eachother vile names).
Just an addition to your post I would have to add: Clanners attitude towards pubbers may have changed but they way they try to teach them hasnt. Alot of better player try to tell people what to do and that comes off as bossy which leads to the whole problem once again. I am at fault of this sometimes, but its easier for you and them if you show them even though you probably wont win because of the time needed to do this. The next game would be different though as you have gained some of their trust and they know understand.
<b>I see this all the time:</b> Also the fact that some just go on servers and play their hardest and try to look good. Most of the time its better to just play at <b>their level</b> but promote teamwork. I've been teaching people how to bait marines and now finding that some do it without me even being there. That is a bigger reward than any K:D ratio.
/player joins server /player can aim! /player gets banned <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Points to stats* <a href='http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525' target='_blank'>http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525</a>
*laughs*
*pause...................................*
*laughs*
This is what people talk about, yes you are good but your ego is far above the skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol??
What do you interpret out of these stats ?
If you are looking at my "skill" rating, notice how the bar graph of skill goes down with online time of skill
I'm just loling if anyone were to take these stats as a measure of skill in the first place?
GibGames server... enforces blockscripts but no abusive admins... not too bad eh? It looks like pneumatic crab has been playing there as well, and that guy is practically an aimbot.
So it's not too bad, just lose the blockscripts and volia!
OH and I just realized something. Isn't blockscripts prejuidced against a type of player? Those who wish to script are told to go screw off because somehow they are bad? e-racism?
I can say with confidence that <b>Forlorn</b> is better skill-wise than the majority of us put together. No need for <i>ad hominem</i> attacks; we're more dignified than that.
sci* Forlorn-Au: btw Terror - Judge killed crazymofo with claws Visit our home at www.clanexo.net Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws E.T.: sh!t sci* Forlorn-Au: that buddy of yours who took a demo of me sci* Forlorn-Au: am I gonna get banned now? -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yeah -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: prolly sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au: why I'm not hacking thou? sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: he sed soemthing with yer energy was sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe -|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game -|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game Terror - Judge killed darkdragon with claws Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws sci* Forlorn-Au: no it wasn't sci* Forlorn-Au: it was good energy managment sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: lol sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: i watch u -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: u have never run outa energy E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun E.T. killed crazymofo with bitegun -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yer always blinking sci* Forlorn-Au: yeah so what? Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws sci* Forlorn-Au: it's easy to do Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au: i can teach anyone sci* Forlorn-Au killed pandas | Jojoshua with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: -_- sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
Just got banned for energy hacking as a fade in combat
So I head over to their forums... and what do we see?
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sci* Forlorn-Au: btw Terror - Judge killed crazymofo with claws Visit our home at www.clanexo.net Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws E.T.: sh!t sci* Forlorn-Au: that buddy of yours who took a demo of me sci* Forlorn-Au: am I gonna get banned now? -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yeah -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: prolly sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au: why I'm not hacking thou? sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: he sed soemthing with yer energy was sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe -|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game -|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game Terror - Judge killed darkdragon with claws Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws sci* Forlorn-Au: no it wasn't sci* Forlorn-Au: it was good energy managment sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: lol sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: i watch u -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: u have never run outa energy E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun E.T. killed crazymofo with bitegun -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yer always blinking sci* Forlorn-Au: yeah so what? Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws sci* Forlorn-Au: it's easy to do Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe sci* Forlorn-Au: i can teach anyone sci* Forlorn-Au killed pandas | Jojoshua with swipe -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: -_- sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
Just got banned for energy hacking as a fade in combat
So I head over to their forums... and what do we see?
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=400#post400' target='_blank'>Made a unban request.</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Whats your point? Not a bash, just honestly wondering why you stuck that in there.
This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 11:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Need we bring up why you were banned from LM AGAIN? It wasn't over hacks- they've only banned 3-5 people EVER for that, and I assure you, you aren't one of them.
Also, isn't that a clanner server? I see a lot of bigtime clanners on there o.o
I'm surprised that "pandas | Jojoshua" didn't step up and say something to the admin that was going to ban you for 'energy hacking'. I'm sure Jojoshua, as a NS Guide, would be knowledgeable enough as well as having that nifty Guide Icon to explain to the admin of how good fades understand energy management...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 11 2004, 02:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 11 2004, 02:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 11:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Need we bring up why you were banned from LM AGAIN? It wasn't over hacks- they've only banned 3-5 people EVER for that, and I assure you, you aren't one of them.
Also, isn't that a clanner server? I see a lot of bigtime clanners on there o.o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't recognize that clan and just because people play with tags on doesn't mean they are in the competitive scene. There are clans who are just communities that play NS, and there are clans that compete. A lot of the times, the asshats are clans that just have tags on who are a group of 12 year olds that goes around being asshats on servers, with no real skills. Of course the public community would lump them in with the competitive community.
As for LM, they haven't said why I was banned. As I've stated I haven't broken any rules. They even banned me from the forums for some unknown reason, again no warning. I've said this before but it seems like they like to ignore my posts because, perhaps I actually do come out with good explanations backing my view of things while trying to come out as open minded and not arrogant. I guess its easier to ignore my previous posts and go after posts from Forlorn or Nadagast because its easier to portray them as arrogant whereas our views are pretty much the same, except the underlining tone.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Who says we are purposely trying to wipe the floor with everyone? Has NS deteriorated to the point where good competitive players can't even play on random public servers anymore? Sometimes it does get boring just scrimming or pugging, fustrating too. So we can't go to random public servers to have fun? And when we have fun, we just relax and play, we don't try to ruin other people's fun, I'm sorry if we're good players and I'm sorry if having fun means playing our average game on public servers. Who said anything about proving something.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says we are purposely trying to wipe the floor with everyone? Who said anything about proving something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio.
Why not try other things.
For example "Onos go Moo" is a frequent visitor to the server and he is skilled Ive seen him compete on the level of clanners but yet he has fun doing other things. Like spit killing or playing the support role.
I personally find playing the feild welder to be the most appreciated role. I do this to have fun and support the team, keep the pubbers alive even though I maybe the best shot on the team. I dont try and show off.
Look at it like this: If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we banned you because you hack, consider this a warning: dont f*** with our servers<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
You mean like...oh I dunno, an admin of the Warm Fuzzy Land NS community who happens to also be in the Wnf clan? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You know, thre really, REALLY needs to be an "official" tutorial to scripting. I mean, Flayra has already stated it's part of the game, so why not give official help for it? Half of the the so-called script problem would be gone.
p.s Thank the lord WFL has mp_bs 0. All mature players with good attitudes welcome <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/me thanks Gem for that line <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, Gemmy is so cute <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for my opinion being moot, at least I have a justifiable opinion, rather than endlessly repeating excuses and evading the questions.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's an NS conspiracy!
Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances ---> Ask for devs to fix the game ---> Nothing happens, clanners still want to pub occasionaly so they play on ignorant servers ----> They get banned/abused/mistreated ----> Clanners ask for people to open their eyes -----> They are told to make their own server -------> Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Create a low-slot server and one problem is solved.
I prefer small games, also because of unbalanced large games.
I know that many players prefer the high-slot servers and those servers leech to much players from other servers, but you and me aren't alone by prefering a good, balanced game on a higher level, so that your server should find an audience.
Imo this discussion is almost pointless because most of the player's minds you want to change will never visit this forum. They just play the game for fun and don't take it that seriously.
So far i agree with Necrosis, they can't hear you or won't listen, so go out there and show them a better experience by creating better servers with your rules.
Newbs whine, Pros adapt (no offense, hope you'll get my point)
to quote some good players overhere^^
so plz stop discussing, adapt to the situation and start work.
Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances ---> Ask for devs to fix the game ---> Nothing happens, clanners still want to pub occasionaly so they play on ignorant servers ----> They get banned/abused/mistreated ----> Clanners ask for people to open their eyes -----> They are told to make their own server -------> Clanners cannot make large pub games for themselves due to the imbalances
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Create a low-slot server and one problem is solved.
I prefer small games, also because of unbalanced large games.
I know that many players prefer the high-slot servers and those servers leech to much players from other servers, but you and me aren't alone by prefering a good, balanced game on a higher level, so that your server should find an audience.
Imo this discussion is almost pointless because most of the player's minds you want to change will never visit this forum. They just play the game for fun and don't take it that seriously.
So far i agree with Necrosis, they can't hear you or won't listen, so go out there and show them a better experience by creating better servers with your rules.
Newbs whine, Pros adapt (no offense, hope you'll get my point)
to quote some good players overhere^^
so plz stop discussing, adapt to the situation and start work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please adapt to this:
/player joins server
/player can aim!
/player gets banned
Next you can just make a low-slot server as low player amounts with less teamwork isn't fun
/player joins server
/player can aim!
/player gets banned
Next you can just make a low-slot server as low player amounts with less teamwork isn't fun <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that happens sometimes, also to me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You can change this with your own server, that is my point.
Moreover this low-slot server is aimed towards skilled people who like communication, teamwork, balanced amount of players and don't like the usual big game teamdeathmatch.
Just to clarify, i mean 12-14 players with low slot servers, everything higher seems boring to me because lag, luck and unbalance increases, but i respect the people that like to play this style.
It's just about (re-)creating other kinds of play styles like you and others want and show them to the player-base to persuade them by acting not by discussing.
What other scripts can I use to 'exploit other parts of the engine'? Please, your knowledge of scripting is laughable at best.
By the way, the reason I argue this is because of principle, not that I need scripts to play on your server. You're basing your conclusion off of false information, leading to a false conclusion. It's not your fault, anyone would do it, just recognize that you don't know that much about scripting and ask to be educated or learn for yourself. That's ALL I want. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
again, you've said yourself that you dont need scripts. why gripe? and why are you STILL attacking my apparent knowledge?
i suppose it can be safely assumed you're god, but as lightingmonkey has pointed out we treat each player as a seperate case, and i for one, also treat each player that joins our server for the first time with a clean slate. Because i disagree agree with you strongly, that suddenly makes me stupid and EVERYTHING i say immediatly becomes "false" and/or "a logical fallicy".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can you show me one of these 'exploitative scripts'?
Again, other than _special, which will be gone in B6, and there are ways to block it w/o mp_bs.
Edit: Hieyeck, nearly the entire clan community (as far as I remember anyway) was against scripting when I started playing back in 1.04. Admittedly the _special pistol script was much worse back then, but still, the clanning community has come far in terms of how educated they are about scripts... The pub community can do it too. I'm not saying that the clanners are necessarily right in their opinion about mp_bs, but to call them closed-minded is foolish when they have already made the transition<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There will always be new innovations, and these include innovations in exploiting the engine through scripting. I've already stated in my post <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we are leaving mp_bs set at 1 because we wish to cover all our bases and at the same time slow down any new exploits that might come forth. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please read it in its entirety. I'm trying my best to keep this debate moving and on track. I'd appreciate the same. Because you don't know about ____ script does not mean it doesn't exist. Unforrtunately, there is no ultimate authority in scripts, so NO ONE knows what might be used in a game. i'll emphasize this again: We just want to cover our all our bases.
On top of that, I NEVER claimed anyone was closed-minded, I simply mean that its possible for both sides to be wrong and stubborn. And since EVERYONE seems to be bashing at pubs - specifically us at G4B2S, I was merely pointing out the other possibility. Anything, no matter how unlikely it may seem, is possible. A little bit of paraphrasing on my part, but i feel this quote - albeit it being the base of quantum mechanics - applies well to this situation. We've mentioned this before in g4b2s discussions, but because CAL and clans do it DOES NOT mean it is neccesarily right from our view.
There will always be new innovations, and these include innovations in exploiting the engine through scripting. I've already stated in my post <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we are leaving mp_bs set at 1 because we wish to cover all our bases and at the same time slow down any new exploits that might come forth. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please read it in its entirety. I'm trying my best to keep this debate moving and on track. I'd appreciate the same. Because you don't know about ____ script does not mean it doesn't exist. Unforrtunately, there is no ultimate authority in scripts, so NO ONE knows what might be used in a game. i'll emphasize this again: We just want to cover our all our bases. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I see. Since it is impossible to prove that something might come from someone somewhere for some reason some time in the future, we should imprison all scientists and slay all philosophers. Not to mention free speech, I mean somewhere for some reason some time in the future some man called something might start preaching to the people and bad things might happen.
I hope my point got through to you.
/player joins server
/player can aim!
/player gets banned
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Points to stats*
<a href='http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525' target='_blank'>http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525</a>
*laughs*
*pause...................................*
*laughs*
This is what people talk about, yes you are good but your ego is far above the skill.
k:d ratio: ~5.5
now.
1) stop laughing
2) tell me what this proves
3) tell me why you are posting in this thread.
Some clanners also say they're trying to 'teach' when they just call people nubs for not knowing anything, in a very arrogant attitude. In fact, there are many instances in this thread where some seem to think that the problem lies solely with pubbers. Mr. Ben and Amplifier both seem to think so.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's true that some clanners believe that all pubbers simply don't get what they are saying though there are a lot more open minded ones, even ones who you think that hates all pubbers. The reason why clanners are a lot more openminded to pubbers is because, I guess one reason why this is such a hotly discussed issue, public play is the source of a good competitive scene. Yes, you read right, the public scene is very important to our competitive scene and we're afraid of what the quality of the public scene is changing to. When there are less and less prospects to be recruited because they don't like the clan scene, don't care for the clan scene, heard bad thing s about the clan scenes, then what ends up happening is the competitive scene begins to recycle itself. Clans just reforming over and over again, while more players slowly slip away, eventually there aren't enough players to recycle or even hold a competitive scene together. Now I know a few of you could care less if that happens because you think that NS will be perfectly fine without a clan scene, but from what I know, without an active clan scene, the game will slowly die.
The arrogance of clanners is indeed there and has always been there, not just in the NS Community but in all other competitive communities, whether it is on computer games or real life activities. Where there is real competitiveness, there is arrogance because most skilled competitors have or develop pride and ego. That is the reason why clanners come down as arrogant and condenscending, though some try to control it more often than not. Don't think they are only arrogant and condenscending to the public community, in fact I can safely say that they are <b>more</b> condenscending and arrogant against each other. It's something that all competitive players have tried to reign in, even Forlorn. Most of the time I've seen Forlorn try to post well explained and reasoned posts here in the public forums, with a lot less condenscending attitude than say from what I've seen either in #cri private forums, #cri ventrilo channel, what have you when he was in #cri. Don't think we're not trying to fix ourselves because we know if we don't make ourselves appealing to the public play, our major source of players will become nonexistant, and competitive play will also become nonexistant.
<!--QuoteBegin-Suicidal Tendencies+Nov 10 2004, 09:08 PM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Suicidal Tendencies @ Nov 10 2004, 09:08 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
3. Fit rather to the "general player", someone who comes home after work, kicks back, and plays a few games of NS with some regulars in our servers, not freting about commanding strats or the newest models or fashions of gameplay.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Suicidal Tendencies Posted: Nov 10 2004+ 09:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Suicidal Tendencies Posted: Nov 10 2004 @ 09:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
He was in my server bunnyhopping (it was actually another term and might have been a different technique), and I told him to stop because it was irritating the rest of the players, he told me it was "his nature, why would he want to stop that?" My belief is that if you come to my server, you are held to the responsiblity to following my rules and my requests.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think picking option #3 is also great for servers that are more relaxed and less focused on competitiveness, I know it's definately more fun for the average joe to go on those servers because he won't get torn to shreds because either he doesn't have the time to put into the game or he just isn't good, even if he tries. I'm all for having a lot of servers like this. I think this thread is being misread into thinking that clanners want to to change all the public servers into competitive recruiting boot camps, that is something we definately do <b>not</b> want to do, it's not good for the game, this leads me to the second quote. I understand a lot of people don't like bunnyhopping, however like Flayra said its in the game to help balance the game. I also understand that the server rules and requests should be followed, I respect that, even at Lunixmonster even though they apparently saw it differently. I've played on your servers a few times and respected all the rules, sometimes it was fun, other times it was fustrating. What I want to discuss in the second quote is the part about asking him to stop because it was irritating the players. I agree that if the players are irritated, yes, please ask the person to stop. I know when I went onto your servers and faded, players got discouraged and the admins told me to just go permagorge or something, I agreed. However, I believe as a server admin of this great mod, your responsibility doesn't stop there. A second step is required, you need to ask the public players on your server <b>why</b> they are irritated. You need to inform them that bunnyhopping is a very valid skill to use in the game of NS and that it's one of the essential skills of good skulking. This way the ones who don't know or understand bunny hopping can be informed, if they inquire more about it, feel free to direct them to various places like #nslearn or #nsguides, I'm sure they will learn a great deal more there as well, not just about bunny hopping, but about NS game play. So as you can see, you're not part of the competitive scene nor are you promoting it, but you are part of the NS community and you are helping promote the various aspect of it.
As for Necrosis's posts and emphasis about servers and making your own, it's one possible solution but it's not a good solution. The rift will still be there, only it'll just cement it. There will be the side that hates competitive NS and the people who are involved who just stays in that camp and those servers forever, trying to recruit people to their side. Then there's the second camp of competitive players who strive to play their best with their own servers, trying to recruit players to their camp. Ultimately, the second camp loses because new players will always be discouraged when they get whomped all the time after they just join the game. So Necrosis's solution though it might seem logical, only helps widen the rift between the two communities right now and is a very bad idea.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hieyeck+ Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM --></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hieyeck @ Nov 11 2004, 02:52 AM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
On top of that, I NEVER claimed anyone was closed-minded, I simply mean that its possible for both sides to be wrong and stubborn. And since EVERYONE seems to be bashing at pubs - specifically us at G4B2S, I was merely pointing out the other possibility. Anything, no matter how unlikely it may seem, is possible. A little bit of paraphrasing on my part, but i feel this quote - albeit it being the base of quantum mechanics - applies well to this situation. We've mentioned this before in g4b2s discussions, but because CAL and clans do it DOES NOT mean it is neccesarily right from our view.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pub bashing wasn't the point of this thread, nor was the purpose of this thread to change your server mp_blockscript variable, nor was it to say whatever CAL doesn't ban shouldn't be banned. Those were just side effects of this thread because of the topic, those subjects would eventually be breached and talked about. It's too bad that a portion of this thread got sidetracked into using evidence about pubs/scripts/rules. As for knowledge, the reason why competitive players have a problem about knowledge is that we believe server admins especially should be knowledgeable about the game. It's like being a CS admin and not knowing what hacks do and whatnot, so they quickly ban people who are just really good players. Knowledge is the most important aspect of being an admin, because as an admin, you also represent the NS Community. I'm not saying your knowledge is right or wrong because I have never spoken to you before or read your responses on the G4B2S forums.
Pointing out the drama that is put into too many posts.
Remember that "Clanning" forum that we discussed quite a while ago? Why not do differently: Right now we have Clan Recruitment. But what if we just make a "Clanning" forum with 2 forums: Clan Recruitment, and Individuals for Hire(or something of the such). They would both be moderated, and people just post contact info, a little bio, their specialties, where they usually play, the such. It'd help get the clan scene back on its feet- I and many others have been trying to start clans for quite a while, but sadly we can almost never find any more than 2-3 people. This forum would give the chance for people to spec others, without becoming a total hate forum(thanks to the moderated aspect).
As for the rift, I remember someone mentioning a page ago that the problem is both clanners and pubbers. While thats true, notice its the clanners initiating the "Can we do this better?" here- I've noticed on a whole the clanning scene trying to improve its image, without getting great results because of a unopen public scene. While the clanning scene isn't perfect, or isn't even near its goal, its definately on the way. The pub scene though, definately needs to be more open to the idea that clanners are good people, and that the clanning helps them as much as it would if they were in one. So now, while clanners work on themselves, their asking the pub community to do the same, so we can end up being one big happy family(or at least one that won't ban eachother for getting sg'd in the face, or call eachother vile names).
Feel the love?
Just an addition to your post I would have to add: Clanners attitude towards pubbers may have changed but they way they try to teach them hasnt. Alot of better player try to tell people what to do and that comes off as bossy which leads to the whole problem once again. I am at fault of this sometimes, but its easier for you and them if you show them even though you probably wont win because of the time needed to do this. The next game would be different though as you have gained some of their trust and they know understand.
<b>I see this all the time:</b>
Also the fact that some just go on servers and play their hardest and try to look good. Most of the time its better to just play at <b>their level</b> but promote teamwork. I've been teaching people how to bait marines and now finding that some do it without me even being there. That is a bigger reward than any K:D ratio.
/player joins server
/player can aim!
/player gets banned
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*Points to stats*
<a href='http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525' target='_blank'>http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525</a>
*laughs*
*pause...................................*
*laughs*
This is what people talk about, yes you are good but your ego is far above the skill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol??
What do you interpret out of these stats ?
If you are looking at my "skill" rating, notice how the bar graph of skill goes down with online time of skill
I'm just loling if anyone were to take these stats as a measure of skill in the first place?
GibGames server... enforces blockscripts but no abusive admins... not too bad eh? It looks like pneumatic crab has been playing there as well, and that guy is practically an aimbot.
So it's not too bad, just lose the blockscripts and volia!
OH and I just realized something. Isn't blockscripts prejuidced against a type of player? Those who wish to script are told to go screw off because somehow they are bad? e-racism?
Terror - Judge killed crazymofo with claws
Visit our home at www.clanexo.net
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
E.T.: sh!t
sci* Forlorn-Au: that buddy of yours who took a demo of me
sci* Forlorn-Au: am I gonna get banned now?
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yeah
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: prolly
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au: why I'm not hacking thou?
sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: he sed soemthing with yer energy was
sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
-|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game
-|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game
Terror - Judge killed darkdragon with claws
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au: no it wasn't
sci* Forlorn-Au: it was good energy managment
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: lol
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: i watch u
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: u have never run outa energy
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
E.T. killed crazymofo with bitegun
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yer always blinking
sci* Forlorn-Au: yeah so what?
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au: it's easy to do
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au: i can teach anyone
sci* Forlorn-Au killed pandas | Jojoshua with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: -_-
sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
Just got banned for energy hacking as a fade in combat
So I head over to their forums... and what do we see?
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3' target='_blank'>Nothing.</a>
Another example of reinforced ignorance.
EDIT:
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=400#post400' target='_blank'>Made a unban request.</a>
Terror - Judge killed crazymofo with claws
Visit our home at www.clanexo.net
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
E.T.: sh!t
sci* Forlorn-Au: that buddy of yours who took a demo of me
sci* Forlorn-Au: am I gonna get banned now?
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yeah
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: prolly
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au: why I'm not hacking thou?
sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: he sed soemthing with yer energy was
sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
-|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game
-|eXo|-Omega Miroku|nG| has joined the game
Terror - Judge killed darkdragon with claws
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au: no it wasn't
sci* Forlorn-Au: it was good energy managment
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: lol
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: i watch u
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: u have never run outa energy
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
E.T. killed crazymofo with bitegun
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: yer always blinking
sci* Forlorn-Au: yeah so what?
Terror - Judge killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au: it's easy to do
Terror - Judge killed Shadowfax|no sound with claws
sci* Forlorn-Au killed darkdragon with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au killed crazymofo with swipe
sci* Forlorn-Au: i can teach anyone
sci* Forlorn-Au killed pandas | Jojoshua with swipe
-|eXo|-Cephiros |nG|: -_-
sci* Forlorn-Au killed -|eXo|-Cephiros |nG| with swipe
E.T. killed pandas | Jojoshua with bitegun
sci* Forlorn-Au killed Shadowfax|no sound with swipe
Just got banned for energy hacking as a fade in combat
So I head over to their forums... and what do we see?
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3' target='_blank'>Nothing.</a>
Another example of reinforced ignorance.
EDIT:
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=400#post400' target='_blank'>Made a unban request.</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats your point? Not a bash, just honestly wondering why you stuck that in there.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Need we bring up why you were banned from LM AGAIN? It wasn't over hacks- they've only banned 3-5 people EVER for that, and I assure you, you aren't one of them.
Also, isn't that a clanner server? I see a lot of bigtime clanners on there o.o
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Need we bring up why you were banned from LM AGAIN? It wasn't over hacks- they've only banned 3-5 people EVER for that, and I assure you, you aren't one of them.
Also, isn't that a clanner server? I see a lot of bigtime clanners on there o.o <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't recognize that clan and just because people play with tags on doesn't mean they are in the competitive scene. There are clans who are just communities that play NS, and there are clans that compete. A lot of the times, the asshats are clans that just have tags on who are a group of 12 year olds that goes around being asshats on servers, with no real skills. Of course the public community would lump them in with the competitive community.
As for LM, they haven't said why I was banned. As I've stated I haven't broken any rules. They even banned me from the forums for some unknown reason, again no warning. I've said this before but it seems like they like to ignore my posts because, perhaps I actually do come out with good explanations backing my view of things while trying to come out as open minded and not arrogant. I guess its easier to ignore my previous posts and go after posts from Forlorn or Nadagast because its easier to portray them as arrogant whereas our views are pretty much the same, except the underlining tone.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who says we are purposely trying to wipe the floor with everyone? Has NS deteriorated to the point where good competitive players can't even play on random public servers anymore? Sometimes it does get boring just scrimming or pugging, fustrating too. So we can't go to random public servers to have fun? And when we have fun, we just relax and play, we don't try to ruin other people's fun, I'm sorry if we're good players and I'm sorry if having fun means playing our average game on public servers. Who said anything about proving something.
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You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio.
Why not try other things.
For example "Onos go Moo" is a frequent visitor to the server and he is skilled Ive seen him compete on the level of clanners but yet he has fun doing other things. Like spit killing or playing the support role.
I personally find playing the feild welder to be the most appreciated role. I do this to have fun and support the team, keep the pubbers alive even though I maybe the best shot on the team. I dont try and show off.
Look at it like this:
If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->we banned you because you hack, consider this a warning: dont f*** with our servers<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that speaks for itself.....