<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh.. no you are completely wrong.
Look, if we are going by the stupid "skill" rating these stats provide, my skill rating, my previous one from a few days ago was higher than almost everyone elses there.
I'm sure I could jack it up way higher if I spent more time on the server. I know back on the PT server which I used to pub all the time my skill was like 2500 or whatever, but I didn't care as I knew better than to look at a silly stats program which couldn't possibly judge skill.
Anyhow if we look carefully at my skill rating on the history chart:
<a href='http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525' target='_blank'>Here</a>, we see it going down after a certain point, going down with time.
Change the histories chart over to "online time", and what do you notice? The skill goes down at the same rate the online time does too.
Conclusion: The whole system is messed up and I can't figure out how it works for the life of me, and your example of using skill (even though my previous skill is higher than almost everyone else) rating on a stats program to portray me as bad is laughable.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says we are purposely trying to wipe the floor with everyone? Who said anything about proving something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So if we go on a public server to play and we play a relaxed, average game doing something we think is fun, we automatically strive to get the highest K:D ratio. That's some pretty twisty logic I have to say. So basically you're saying, if I am a good skulk and fade for a team on the competitive community, if I ever go on public servers, I can only permagorge and lerk. I know you didn't say this, but that's the only result I can draw from your suggestion.
Now, if we do end up doing better than most players, why does it always equate to them being uncomfortable and hating us. I've played at times where I've kept quiet, and just play my game, everyone else on the server was fine with it. A few even complimented me and said stuff like wow, a rarer few would talk to me after the round and ask me questions about my game, because they want to learn from it! Did I go showboating while I was killing, saying stuff like "Damn look at me, you can all learn from what I'm doing!" No, so there are other benefits to play well on servers. You just seem to be stuck in a bad rut where if competitive players do well on a public server, they are hated. Perhaps on servers you play regularly on, it happens, but all we're pointing out on this entire thread is that it shouldn't be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Look at it like this: If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A distaste that the blame shouldn't be put on us. Gecko made a great post about the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84636' target='_blank'>Mental Mind Frames</a> of playing a game like NS, it's a good read, check it out. A person with a good mental mind frame won't have a bad taste in his mouth, he wouldn't automatically think that the guy hacks or scripts and is evil. That's not giving enough credit to the public players, but if what you say is the norm, then like this thread is pointing out, NS Community has indeed gone downhill.
Who cares about the actual numbers, I'm showing you that you have to much drama, look at the post above.
Im still in love with this quote:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Originally Posted by Grendel the necessary confidence required to play competitively frequently displays itself in the teenage psyche as total arrogance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who says we are purposely trying to wipe the floor with everyone? Who said anything about proving something. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio.
Why not try other things.
For example "Onos go Moo" is a frequent visitor to the server and he is skilled Ive seen him compete on the level of clanners but yet he has fun doing other things. Like spit killing or playing the support role.
I personally find playing the feild welder to be the most appreciated role. I do this to have fun and support the team, keep the pubbers alive even though I maybe the best shot on the team. I dont try and show off.
Look at it like this: If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No.. you are completely wrong. (again)
When I pub, I do not always wear headphones, I crank up some music, I talk to anyone who is in the room while I pub, I watch TV, I eat food
And yet I always get banned, I'm not even putting in 60% of my concentration into a pub game. I mean I can't hear anything, I mute all my teammates, pubbing for me is watching pretty graphics and seeing how fast I can react to situations. It's for fun.
Obviously you try to win, there is nothing else to do in the game.
And yes, sometimes I go onos/gorge/xenoskulk but only if I feel like being really lame. Generally I go fade and instead of abusing the overpowered fade I just stay in the room with the marine, blinking around him non-stop and letting him work on his aim while I slowly kill him.
Lol, playing "for real" in a game of co would mean an alien victory every time, I'm always goofing off.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:42 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who cares about the actual numbers, I'm showing you that you have to much drama, look at the post above.
Im still in love with this quote:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Originally Posted by Grendel the necessary confidence required to play competitively frequently displays itself in the teenage psyche as total arrogance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree that there are a lot of drama revolving around NS gaming these days and Grendel's post is pretty accurate to an extent. However, drama sometimes makes the game attractive. Take American Football for example, Terrel Owens, major Drama maker, almost like a Forlorn. He talks monster amounts of trash, shows off quite often, but the fans love and adore him. Though some do detest and hate him, but that is something that makes football entertaining to watch. Too bad it doesn't happen that way in NS, then again competitive gamers aren't like real professionals. But drama can be fun and entertaining at times, that's how I view it.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 02:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Perhaps on servers you play regularly on, it happens, but all we're pointing out on this entire thread is that it shouldn't be. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lets just get this strait, Im not a pubber and I run the servers
No, I embrase clanners and their skill, I actually try and keep them at GPs servers. I have yet to kick/ban anyone for doing good mostly kick people that complain about the people doing good.
I enjoy competition, I like it when clanners join cause then I can go from being my support role to the pubbies and try and compete against them.
I was just pointing out what I have seen as these players come and go.
<u>Hell, I welcome the whole clan scene to come to our servers, I would love to have a higher skilled players to play with all the time.</u>
For instance, I told teppla and the whole txt crew that GP enjoyed their company and the skill they brought. Since then they have yet to come back.
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Nov 11 2004, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is a <b>staple</b> example of what clanners have to put up with on 90% of the servers out there. No reasoning, no flames from the clanners side, just a ban.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you joking? You're trying to make assumptions of skill based off of Psychostats? LOL
Well, in that case with what you have seen is just evidence of what Nadagast started talking about when he started this thread. And its great that you run the server that welcomes the competitive community as well as promote competition on the server.
Problem is, a lot of servers, popular ones too, don't have the same mentality you have. Should they change how they run the servers? No, of course not, like someone said it's their money. However, instead of embracing the attitude that their regulars have of how evil and bad the competitive players are, coming in and ruining their fun with whatever they did, they should try to inform their regulars that this game is about winning or losing, otherwise you wouldn't have teams. Though there are fun ways of winning, they shouldn't shun really good players just because they happen to play really well on a server. They shouldn't change things just to shelter their regulars from the big bad clanners without a clear explanation, because it only promotes the fact that yeah, clanners are horrible people. They go around messing up people's games, you shouldn't try to be like one of them and you shouldn't try to learn from them, they are a bad example.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 03:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 03:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, in that case with what you have seen is just evidence of what Nadagast started talking about when he started this thread. And its great that you run the server that welcomes the competitive community as well as promote cometition on the server.
Problem is, a lot of servers, popular ones too, don't have the same mentality you have. Should they change how they run the servers? No, of course not, like someone said it's their money. However, instead of embracing the attitude that their regulars have of how evil and bad the competitive players are, coming in and ruining their fun with whatever they did, they should try to inform their regulars that this game is about winning or losing, otherwise you wouldn't have teams. Though there are fun ways of winning, they shouldn't shun really good players just because they happen to play really well on a server. They shouldn't change things just to shelter their regulars from the big bad clanners without a clear explanation, because it only promotes the fact that yeah, clanners are horrible people. They go around messing up people's games, you shouldn't try to be like one of them and you shouldn't try to learn from them, they are a bad example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OK I see where your coming from, I dont go outside too much of the domain I can't control.
Good point, and shame on them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Emanon+Nov 11 2004, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Emanon @ Nov 11 2004, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OK I see where your coming from, I dont go outside too much of the domain I can't control.
Good point, and shame on them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hope to see you around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a good point you make, some people think we're picking on their server only but that isn't the case. Sometimes we might use it as an example but I wish they wouldn't take it as a personal bash though it might be hard to since the regulars do love their community. It's just that they haven't really played on a lot of other servers to see the same stuff happening. This thread tries to bring it all together, with the experiences we've had on other servers and point the crucial points out. It just so happens we name a few servers because they were really popular and stuck in our heads. This thread is <b>not</b> an attempt to try to make sweeping changes on servers or to assassinate their community. It's about the mentality of the NS community right now, both sides of the community.
How come some of these players dont stay on servers they are accepted on?
Like the txt guys with their ban page and all or forlorn for this matter , I figured they would be happy that they found somewhere they can play on without ridicule? Why would they continue onto somewhere else? To find trouble?
In my experience, the players on a server get more annoyed if a clanner is just goofing off, like if a friend and I go onto a combat server and limit ourselves to pistol/knife. The enemy skulks get very mad, even though they are killing us more than they would if we used the primary weapons.
I think most clanners didn't play on a server with joining the community in mind. They already have their clan and they just go on pubs to relax and have fun, as Forlorn said earlier. He'd play with music on, etc. It kinda sucks to wait in line sometimes to get on the server.
I use to play with the [C.A.P.] community a lot and it was a blast, sometimes I'd do amazing and they wouldn't care. But then things happen as either the newer members of the community or those who just didn't like me or #cri started to raise their voice about stuff. One of the big admins there who joined the competitive scene left, due to circumstances and soon those who had only whispered their displeasure begin to raise their voices. The server ultimately turned into mp_bs 1 haven, and I just didn't return anymore because apparently people stopped having fun when I join, and I didn't want that, though I did recruit a couple from the [C.A.P.] community into my clan and one of them, parche, did well against dn in our first round of playoffs. As you can see, we do rely on the public community for more recruits, I joined #cri in the middle of last season having zero, absolutely no competitive experience, it really opened my eyes on how much of the NS community I wasn't privy to at the time. I didn't hate clanners, I was a decent player because I pubbed a lot against sYn-Firewater and company, as well as people from TAU during the 1.04 days. I watched how they play and decided to improve my own game and I did. Now I am where I am, though not one of the best players in the competitive community but I'd say part of it.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Roberto+Nov 11 2004, 03:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roberto @ Nov 11 2004, 03:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In my experience, the players on a server get more annoyed if a clanner is just goofing off, like if a friend and I go onto a combat server and limit ourselves to pistol/knife. The enemy skulks get very mad, even though they are killing us more than they would if we used the primary weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's because when you good around like that, you are, indirectly, insulting them.
From their perspective, they could perceive you as having a, "They suck so much I don't even need my primary weapon. All I need is my knife and pistol!"
It doesn't matter whether or not you actually were thinking that. It just matters how people perceive your actions.
Most people probably want you to try your best, or at the very least, play at a level that's not completely goofing around. I know I wouldn't be getting better if I killed you becuase you were only knifing.
Maybe instead of using only pistol or whatever, you can go HA instead of JP, and then always make sure to join the team with the obvious disadvantage.
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 03:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It kinda sucks to wait in line sometimes to get on the server. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I have to try and do something about that.
From what I've seen, this thread hasn't really helped anything. The clanners think the pubbers to be more ignorant than ever. The pubbers think the clanners to be more arrogant than ever. Whewt.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I've seen, this thread hasn't really helped anything. The clanners think the pubbers to be more ignorant than ever. The pubbers think the clanners to be more arrogant than ever. Whewt. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I've seen, this thread hasn't really helped anything. The clanners think the pubbers to be more ignorant than ever. The pubbers think the clanners to be more arrogant than ever. Whewt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Competitive players generally don't join pubs with the express idea of griefing that pub by utterly destroying the other team. They generally join, have fun, teach people stuff, or work on some skill. Lately I've been joining pubs and fading because I wanted to buff up my laughable fading abilities, and I've gone with non-normal (for me) upgrades with the lerk to see how it feels. It's very rarely about wracking up a 50:3 K:D ratio, it's about having fun. Sure some people join pubs to do nothing but grief them (sup teppla), but others simply want to have fun. I spend a decent amount of time teaching, showing people how to do things. I'm sure others end up doing the same thing.
I think if a very thorough guide was released it would help alot. I know there is #nslearn, and guides and what not and even an *old guide, but what i'm thinking is with the release of b6 there should be a guide with it aswell, if b6 is the final release that is. included should be a gloss. of terms. and thoroguh descriptions. And I'm not talking about what a sensory chamber is or whatever. I'm talking about what letting people know exactly what's up. I don't think it's scripting that's unfiar, I think it's people not knowing what it does that makes it unfair. And not just scripting either, there's a whole lotta **** that gaps clanners from pub players. I mean, there will always be a diffirence of course, like all games there always is; nevertheless, neither community should feel that they can't play just because they aren't up on ****. I'm pretty sure Tim (rad4christ) said that he dosen't feel comfortable with the clan scence because he dosen't script or whatever. thats ****. I think a a proper manual could patch up alot of this...
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 05:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 05:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I've seen, this thread hasn't really helped anything. The clanners think the pubbers to be more ignorant than ever. The pubbers think the clanners to be more arrogant than ever. Whewt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Working for something?
*cough* <!--QuoteBegin-me+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Possibly you [Suicidal Tendencies] could personally sponsor someone from this forum that you think would be able to start and lead a reasonable discussion on the topic in your forum? A post and/or quote from you endorsing the thread would be good enough to keep flames out and discussion in. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *cough*
I'm still interested in the answer to this question, especially since it would actually be a step towards <u>action</u>, rather than just more debates.....
<!--QuoteBegin-crisano+Nov 11 2004, 04:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (crisano @ Nov 11 2004, 04:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I use to play with the [C.A.P.] community a lot and it was a blast, sometimes I'd do amazing and they wouldn't care. But then things happen as either the newer members of the community or those who just didn't like me or #cri started to raise their voice about stuff. One of the big admins there who joined the competitive scene left, due to circumstances and soon those who had only whispered their displeasure begin to raise their voices. The server ultimately turned into mp_bs 1 haven <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hi sano, long time no see.
You are right, but the members of that community are and have always been mostly cavemen who are stuck at step 1 or step 2 of the <i>NS allegory of the cave</i>. The only reason it once was a decent community is because of the very few players of that community who were at step 3 and tried to teach the ignorant ones. However, the results we have today show that most, if not all, of its community members who were at step 3 seem to have left and only remain the ones who are at the bottom of the cave.
Thread detriorating rapidly into "name and shame" silliness. So someone banned you, woo hoo, cope.
Second, responding to a hackusation with "so what?" doesn't really inspire the spirit of understanding we hope to create.
Third, I don't think anyone should have to "play under their skill level", but I think people should control their own behaviour. Unless wiping a low skill server is somehow considered "fun".
(I've done it, I don't consider it fun, I consider it boring for myself and irritating for others)
Well necrosis, you have to understand that a bunch of clanners spend most of their gaming time scrimming against other clanners who land like 80% of their shots. Sometimes its fun to just kick back and play on a "low-skill server" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Nov 11 2004, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Nov 11 2004, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> From what I've seen, this thread hasn't really helped anything. The clanners think the pubbers to be more ignorant than ever. The pubbers think the clanners to be more arrogant than ever. Whewt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You obviously didn't, because on the late teen pages, several people were talking about how its changed their minds.
BTW: I had my first 2 good #nspug matches today, both with Fila. Man, it sucks having a mic broken, or I could've won at least the 2nd one by comming it myself(no one else volunteered, and I said I CAN, but probably won't be that great being I've never commed a pug, and don't have a mic either).
What I gather from the last few pages is that I am arrogant. For trying to show people truth? I don't think so.
I think you're misunderstanding my point.
I am fine if you know about scripting and disagree with me, sure I would try to convince you of my viewpoint, but that's beside the point. I have a problem when people make a judgement on something which they are truly ignorant about (<b>IGNORANT IS NOT AN INSULT</b>).
Sheu, you can complain all day that I'm being arrogant, but you guys haven't shown to know any more about scripting than I thought you had. When I tried to educate (not in the sense of converting you to my side, just TELL YOU FACTS) you about them you guys seemed to think I was attempting to convert you and call you dumb if you don't agree with me. That's not what I was doing at all.
Have I considered that you guys know about scripting? Yes. Does it seem that way to me? No. A thread about scripts that work with mp_bs 1 (<a href='http://guns4back2school.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7073' target='_blank'>here</a>) was locked. These scripts are in no way unbalancing, unfair, or anything and it suggests to me that you guys are not educated about scripting at all, rather having a knee-jerk reaction "OMG SCRIPT BAD!" and banning them. In other words, if you gave me a good reason to believe that you guys were educated about scripts, I would believe it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> The most 'abusive' script in that thread is like... changing the speed while viewing a demo. Hax.
//+metabolize is the only script here that can be considered an unfair advantage. What it used to do is with one push of a button while you're blinking, metabolizes for you and when you let go, switches you back to blink with lastinv set to swipe for more devastation. With mp_blockscripts on it *technically* doesn't work anymore but now you must now hold down both the button and MOUSE1 for it to work. When you let go you're switched you back to blink as before. Then lastinv gives you swipe. alias +metabolize "k3" alias -metabolize "k2a" bind MOUSE4 "+metabolize" bind MOUSE5 "k2a" //blink; lastinv to swipe
so nad you dont see this as an unfair script. He even admits it
also, locked does not mean deleted, the information is still there for players to use and practice with. The reason it was locked was to stop the agrueing about blocking scripts. the information is fine, but to have yet another flamewar was not what we want.
If we had deleted it, then i could see someone saying we are anti scripts, but we didn't.
When all this settles down and we feel that a thread about scripts can stay open without personal comments or flames we might pin one. we dont see ourselves as the ones that need to teach people about scripts, thats why as i said before we gladly send them here.
he says that it doesn't work with blockscripts on...
edit: After looking at the script: It's pretty much the same thing as pressing '3'. It's exactly the same as hitting 3, then 2 (replacing 3 with pressing mouse4 and 2 with releasing mouse4). wow, that should be illegal. It's almost as powerful as a duckjump script!!!
<!--QuoteBegin-lightingmonkey+Nov 11 2004, 09:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lightingmonkey @ Nov 11 2004, 09:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also, locked does not mean deleted, the information is still there for players to use and practice with. The reason it was locked was to stop the agrueing about blocking scripts. the information is fine, but to have yet another flamewar was not what we want.
If we had deleted it, then i could see someone saying we are anti scripts, but we didn't. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> How would it have been a flamewar? He was merely sharing a few scripts he found convenient. (which worked with mp_bs 0 too!)
Comments
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh.. no you are completely wrong.
Look, if we are going by the stupid "skill" rating these stats provide, my skill rating, my previous one from a few days ago was higher than almost everyone elses there.
I'm sure I could jack it up way higher if I spent more time on the server. I know back on the PT server which I used to pub all the time my skill was like 2500 or whatever, but I didn't care as I knew better than to look at a silly stats program which couldn't possibly judge skill.
Anyhow if we look carefully at my skill rating on the history chart:
<a href='http://www.nsgamer.com/stats/player.php?id=4525' target='_blank'>Here</a>, we see it going down after a certain point, going down with time.
Change the histories chart over to "online time", and what do you notice? The skill goes down at the same rate the online time does too.
Conclusion: The whole system is messed up and I can't figure out how it works for the life of me, and your example of using skill (even though my previous skill is higher than almost everyone else) rating on a stats program to portray me as bad is laughable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if we go on a public server to play and we play a relaxed, average game doing something we think is fun, we automatically strive to get the highest K:D ratio. That's some pretty twisty logic I have to say. So basically you're saying, if I am a good skulk and fade for a team on the competitive community, if I ever go on public servers, I can only permagorge and lerk. I know you didn't say this, but that's the only result I can draw from your suggestion.
Now, if we do end up doing better than most players, why does it always equate to them being uncomfortable and hating us. I've played at times where I've kept quiet, and just play my game, everyone else on the server was fine with it. A few even complimented me and said stuff like wow, a rarer few would talk to me after the round and ask me questions about my game, because they want to learn from it! Did I go showboating while I was killing, saying stuff like "Damn look at me, you can all learn from what I'm doing!" No, so there are other benefits to play well on servers. You just seem to be stuck in a bad rut where if competitive players do well on a public server, they are hated. Perhaps on servers you play regularly on, it happens, but all we're pointing out on this entire thread is that it shouldn't be.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Look at it like this:
If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A distaste that the blame shouldn't be put on us. Gecko made a great post about the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84636' target='_blank'>Mental Mind Frames</a> of playing a game like NS, it's a good read, check it out. A person with a good mental mind frame won't have a bad taste in his mouth, he wouldn't automatically think that the guy hacks or scripts and is evil. That's not giving enough credit to the public players, but if what you say is the norm, then like this thread is pointing out, NS Community has indeed gone downhill.
Im still in love with this quote:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Originally Posted by Grendel
the necessary confidence required to play competitively frequently displays itself in the teenage psyche as total arrogance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You obviously are if you trying to get the best K:D ratio.
Why not try other things.
For example "Onos go Moo" is a frequent visitor to the server and he is skilled Ive seen him compete on the level of clanners but yet he has fun doing other things. Like spit killing or playing the support role.
I personally find playing the feild welder to be the most appreciated role. I do this to have fun and support the team, keep the pubbers alive even though I maybe the best shot on the team. I dont try and show off.
Look at it like this:
If you're the father (clanners) and you know how to play baseball (NS) and want to teach the kids (pubbers) how to play. YOU DONT go throwing your hardest or show them how much better you are. Instead you play at their level or just a bit above to push them to that next level. Otherwise you create a distaste in those players to play with you again, hense the current situation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.. you are completely wrong. (again)
When I pub, I do not always wear headphones, I crank up some music, I talk to anyone who is in the room while I pub, I watch TV, I eat food
And yet I always get banned, I'm not even putting in 60% of my concentration into a pub game. I mean I can't hear anything, I mute all my teammates, pubbing for me is watching pretty graphics and seeing how fast I can react to situations. It's for fun.
Obviously you try to win, there is nothing else to do in the game.
And yes, sometimes I go onos/gorge/xenoskulk but only if I feel like being really lame. Generally I go fade and instead of abusing the overpowered fade I just stay in the room with the marine, blinking around him non-stop and letting him work on his aim while I slowly kill him.
Lol, playing "for real" in a game of co would mean an alien victory every time, I'm always goofing off.
<a href='http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/showthread.php?p=403&posted=1#post403' target='_blank'>http://exo.elementsys.com/forum/showthread...osted=1#post403</a>
Yep ^ that is hilarious
Im still in love with this quote:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Originally Posted by Grendel
the necessary confidence required to play competitively frequently displays itself in the teenage psyche as total arrogance.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that there are a lot of drama revolving around NS gaming these days and Grendel's post is pretty accurate to an extent. However, drama sometimes makes the game attractive. Take American Football for example, Terrel Owens, major Drama maker, almost like a Forlorn. He talks monster amounts of trash, shows off quite often, but the fans love and adore him. Though some do detest and hate him, but that is something that makes football entertaining to watch. Too bad it doesn't happen that way in NS, then again competitive gamers aren't like real professionals. But drama can be fun and entertaining at times, that's how I view it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lets just get this strait, Im not a pubber and I run the servers
No, I embrase clanners and their skill, I actually try and keep them at GPs servers. I have yet to kick/ban anyone for doing good mostly kick people that complain about the people doing good.
I enjoy competition, I like it when clanners join cause then I can go from being my support role to the pubbies and try and compete against them.
I was just pointing out what I have seen as these players come and go.
<u>Hell, I welcome the whole clan scene to come to our servers, I would love to have a higher skilled players to play with all the time.</u>
For instance, I told teppla and the whole txt crew that GP enjoyed their company and the skill they brought. Since then they have yet to come back.
The same thing happened to me on the lunixmonster, pgc, etc. etc. etc. server here too, but this example was very recent to prove that it's still the norm for backwater servers. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you guys have to go on servers and try and wipe the floor with everyone? I can do it too, but why, it proves nothing.
Romano has no problem with skill rating with time on the server. Your responce is inadequate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you joking? You're trying to make assumptions of skill based off of Psychostats? LOL
Problem is, a lot of servers, popular ones too, don't have the same mentality you have. Should they change how they run the servers? No, of course not, like someone said it's their money. However, instead of embracing the attitude that their regulars have of how evil and bad the competitive players are, coming in and ruining their fun with whatever they did, they should try to inform their regulars that this game is about winning or losing, otherwise you wouldn't have teams. Though there are fun ways of winning, they shouldn't shun really good players just because they happen to play really well on a server. They shouldn't change things just to shelter their regulars from the big bad clanners without a clear explanation, because it only promotes the fact that yeah, clanners are horrible people. They go around messing up people's games, you shouldn't try to be like one of them and you shouldn't try to learn from them, they are a bad example.
Problem is, a lot of servers, popular ones too, don't have the same mentality you have. Should they change how they run the servers? No, of course not, like someone said it's their money. However, instead of embracing the attitude that their regulars have of how evil and bad the competitive players are, coming in and ruining their fun with whatever they did, they should try to inform their regulars that this game is about winning or losing, otherwise you wouldn't have teams. Though there are fun ways of winning, they shouldn't shun really good players just because they happen to play really well on a server. They shouldn't change things just to shelter their regulars from the big bad clanners without a clear explanation, because it only promotes the fact that yeah, clanners are horrible people. They go around messing up people's games, you shouldn't try to be like one of them and you shouldn't try to learn from them, they are a bad example. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK I see where your coming from, I dont go outside too much of the domain I can't control.
Good point, and shame on them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hope to see you around.
Good point, and shame on them. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hope to see you around. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a good point you make, some people think we're picking on their server only but that isn't the case. Sometimes we might use it as an example but I wish they wouldn't take it as a personal bash though it might be hard to since the regulars do love their community. It's just that they haven't really played on a lot of other servers to see the same stuff happening. This thread tries to bring it all together, with the experiences we've had on other servers and point the crucial points out. It just so happens we name a few servers because they were really popular and stuck in our heads. This thread is <b>not</b> an attempt to try to make sweeping changes on servers or to assassinate their community. It's about the mentality of the NS community right now, both sides of the community.
Like the txt guys with their ban page and all or forlorn for this matter , I figured they would be happy that they found somewhere they can play on without ridicule? Why would they continue onto somewhere else? To find trouble?
I use to play with the [C.A.P.] community a lot and it was a blast, sometimes I'd do amazing and they wouldn't care. But then things happen as either the newer members of the community or those who just didn't like me or #cri started to raise their voice about stuff. One of the big admins there who joined the competitive scene left, due to circumstances and soon those who had only whispered their displeasure begin to raise their voices. The server ultimately turned into mp_bs 1 haven, and I just didn't return anymore because apparently people stopped having fun when I join, and I didn't want that, though I did recruit a couple from the [C.A.P.] community into my clan and one of them, parche, did well against dn in our first round of playoffs. As you can see, we do rely on the public community for more recruits, I joined #cri in the middle of last season having zero, absolutely no competitive experience, it really opened my eyes on how much of the NS community I wasn't privy to at the time. I didn't hate clanners, I was a decent player because I pubbed a lot against sYn-Firewater and company, as well as people from TAU during the 1.04 days. I watched how they play and decided to improve my own game and I did. Now I am where I am, though not one of the best players in the competitive community but I'd say part of it.
I think it's because when you good around like that, you are, indirectly, insulting them.
From their perspective, they could perceive you as having a, "They suck so much I don't even need my primary weapon. All I need is my knife and pistol!"
It doesn't matter whether or not you actually were thinking that. It just matters how people perceive your actions.
Most people probably want you to try your best, or at the very least, play at a level that's not completely goofing around. I know I wouldn't be getting better if I killed you becuase you were only knifing.
Maybe instead of using only pistol or whatever, you can go HA instead of JP, and then always make sure to join the team with the obvious disadvantage.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I have to try and do something about that.
Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces.
Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly.
included should be a gloss. of terms. and thoroguh descriptions. And I'm not talking about what a sensory chamber is or whatever. I'm talking about what letting people know exactly what's up. I don't think it's scripting that's unfiar, I think it's people not knowing what it does that makes it unfair. And not just scripting either, there's a whole lotta **** that gaps clanners from pub players. I mean, there will always be a diffirence of course, like all games there always is; nevertheless, neither community should feel that they can't play just because they aren't up on ****. I'm pretty sure Tim (rad4christ) said that he dosen't feel comfortable with the clan scence because he dosen't script or whatever. thats ****. I think a a proper manual could patch up alot of this...
Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Working for something?
*cough*
<!--QuoteBegin-me+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (me)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Possibly you [Suicidal Tendencies] could personally sponsor someone from this forum that you think would be able to start and lead a reasonable discussion on the topic in your forum? A post and/or quote from you endorsing the thread would be good enough to keep flames out and discussion in. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*cough*
I'm still interested in the answer to this question, especially since it would actually be a step towards <u>action</u>, rather than just more debates.....
Hi sano, long time no see.
You are right, but the members of that community are and have always been mostly cavemen who are stuck at step 1 or step 2 of the <i>NS allegory of the cave</i>. The only reason it once was a decent community is because of the very few players of that community who were at step 3 and tried to teach the ignorant ones. However, the results we have today show that most, if not all, of its community members who were at step 3 seem to have left and only remain the ones who are at the bottom of the cave.
Second, responding to a hackusation with "so what?" doesn't really inspire the spirit of understanding we hope to create.
Third, I don't think anyone should have to "play under their skill level", but I think people should control their own behaviour. Unless wiping a low skill server is somehow considered "fun".
(I've done it, I don't consider it fun, I consider it boring for myself and irritating for others)
Not to be mean, but have you even read the 10-20 pages? Lots of minds were changed, understood there. Not to mention, this is a civil conversation as is, so maybe if we can get things arranged so that we can understand eachother's views better, we'll get that much closer. Working for something, even if futile, is better than sitting and letting it go to pieces. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've read the whole 11 pages. Hell, I've been in the debate since <b>Nadagast</b> brought the thing up in the G4B2S forums, all 7 pages over 3 threads there. And all I see is not a debate, but a brawl. People not answering arguments because it suits them not to, or even bringing up the same monotonous points.
Working for something, yes that is necessary. But do it civilly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You obviously didn't, because on the late teen pages, several people were talking about how its changed their minds.
BTW: I had my first 2 good #nspug matches today, both with Fila. Man, it sucks having a mic broken, or I could've won at least the 2nd one by comming it myself(no one else volunteered, and I said I CAN, but probably won't be that great being I've never commed a pug, and don't have a mic either).
I think you're misunderstanding my point.
I am fine if you know about scripting and disagree with me, sure I would try to convince you of my viewpoint, but that's beside the point. I have a problem when people make a judgement on something which they are truly ignorant about (<b>IGNORANT IS NOT AN INSULT</b>).
Sheu, you can complain all day that I'm being arrogant, but you guys haven't shown to know any more about scripting than I thought you had. When I tried to educate (not in the sense of converting you to my side, just TELL YOU FACTS) you about them you guys seemed to think I was attempting to convert you and call you dumb if you don't agree with me. That's not what I was doing at all.
Have I considered that you guys know about scripting? Yes. Does it seem that way to me? No. A thread about scripts that work with mp_bs 1 (<a href='http://guns4back2school.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7073' target='_blank'>here</a>) was locked. These scripts are in no way unbalancing, unfair, or anything and it suggests to me that you guys are not educated about scripting at all, rather having a knee-jerk reaction "OMG SCRIPT BAD!" and banning them. In other words, if you gave me a good reason to believe that you guys were educated about scripts, I would believe it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The most 'abusive' script in that thread is like... changing the speed while viewing a demo. Hax.
alias +metabolize "k3"
alias -metabolize "k2a"
bind MOUSE4 "+metabolize"
bind MOUSE5 "k2a" //blink; lastinv to swipe
so nad you dont see this as an unfair script. He even admits it
also, locked does not mean deleted, the information is still there for players to use and practice with. The reason it was locked was to stop the agrueing about blocking scripts. the information is fine, but to have yet another flamewar was not what we want.
If we had deleted it, then i could see someone saying we are anti scripts, but we didn't.
When all this settles down and we feel that a thread about scripts can stay open without personal comments or flames we might pin one.
we dont see ourselves as the ones that need to teach people about scripts, thats why as i said before we gladly send them here.
edit: After looking at the script: It's pretty much the same thing as pressing '3'. It's exactly the same as hitting 3, then 2 (replacing 3 with pressing mouse4 and 2 with releasing mouse4). wow, that should be illegal. It's almost as powerful as a duckjump script!!!
If we had deleted it, then i could see someone saying we are anti scripts, but we didn't. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would it have been a flamewar? He was merely sharing a few scripts he found convenient. (which worked with mp_bs 0 too!)