The Reason Why Clan Play > Public Play
todd1Ok
Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28018Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28018Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
CAL-ns|Hsu - Competitive Natural Selection play is completely different from normal server play. There is just no comparison. Competitive play allows you to focus less on herding your team to an objective and more on how to work with your team to achieve that objective
taken from a new announcement post.
sums up why clan play will always eclipse public play and why this game should be balanced, moreso than it already is, for clan play, and not the focus fading, redemp onosing, spawn camping stat **** noobs that populate the lvl 200 combat servers.
taken from a new announcement post.
sums up why clan play will always eclipse public play and why this game should be balanced, moreso than it already is, for clan play, and not the focus fading, redemp onosing, spawn camping stat **** noobs that populate the lvl 200 combat servers.
Comments
finding a clan to join in the first place thats worth the effort to join.
most are either not recruiting, or are very slow to recruit people *that ive noticed*.
/sarcasm
and whats so wrong with being in a clan? it can be a rich and vigourating experience. i had no idea what scf was when i joined it. now ive formed friendships with memebrs of my clan that i will carry with me for the rest of my life. and who says you have to join one? get 5 friends and start your own. ns always needs more clans.
finding a clan to join in the first place thats worth the effort to join.
most are either not recruiting, or are very slow to recruit people *that ive noticed*. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
starting your own team with 5 friends isn't very hard last time I checked. Player recycling is what seems to be happening in the clan community as it is. We dont need more people just flying through the same old clans.
Now, I abhor the current rift between clan and pub players, but this post is a perfect example of how clan players aren't exactly helping the situation. Psst, if you want people to NOT revile you, try NOT acting like an elitist asshat. Just a hunch, but I think it'd be a step in the right direction. Clan play always eclipse pub play....I'd like to get a ratio of how many pub games are played for every single clan game played. It's probably in the region of at <u>least</u> 10:1 if you include scrims. For official games, it's probably more like 100:1. Balance one game at the expense of 100? I don't think so.
Btw, redemp onos is a quite valid strat, especially in combat. Wouldn't **** you off so much if it weren't effective, right?
If you balance the game for clan play, surprisingly it is also balanced for public play.
1. get server
2. lock it
3. invite people
the end. you want to change the WHOLE game just for clans. i like the game as it is now. being able to jump into a 28 person server and just do my thing.
Can someone outline the differences?
Can someone outline the differences? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It generally comes down to the fact that many new players to the game only play public and don't use their heads (lawnmower fading, walking into shotgun marines as a lerk) so they complain that things are too hard to use or the things that beat them are overpowered, while "clan games" where people (edit: mostly) know how to play don't make these stupid mistakes.
The dependency on turrets come from the vast majority of players not being able to aim as well.
1. play is balance for pubs where players aren't good at playing fade
-Since the fades get owned because the players aren't as skilled the devs give the fade 50% more hp and increase its rate of speed.
-Now the pubber are happy because they can kill stuff as a walker fade and not die as much.
-clan player or any good player comes into the server and goes fade. This player absolutely destroys anything and everything. Pubbers cry.
2. Lerks are too hard to kill in pubs where marines are not able to shoot well.
-devs slow the lerk down by 25%
-good players join the server and own all the poor lerks
-in clan play lerks are useless because getting caught in the open means instant death to the marines who have near perfect aim.
Pub play has way too many variables for the devs to balance play to it. Vastly different player abilities and large differences in each person's knowledge of the game.
Focus is essential in a match, why cut yourself short? If focus gets the win then focus gets the win...
You started this argument very well, then shot yourself in the head with your little comment there.
Yes clan play eclipses pub play, not in games played (I noticed someone thinks thats the point here :/) but In level of play, but the publics are the "fields" where the clans get a huge source of players.
Not every public player wants to join in with clans either, they play casually, which is fine. They either dont have the time, or confidence for clan play, not EVERYONE can do it.
Many "clan" strategies work for public play. Therefore why cant the game be balanced for both? Asside from the public servers insistance on higher than 6 v 6 teams.
You seem to talk about combat, in your little rant there. Since when do the clans play Combat matches? Did I miss this?
Right now, the public players VASTLY outnumber the clan players, more so than at any point in NS history. Of course there will be the newbie who gets great scores over the long term players, aspects of quick learning - or just blind luck play huge parts in online gaming. That doesn't make him better or worse than you, just because he chooses redemption as onos or takes early focus on combat - Its in the game, if you don't like the state of public play, try to get your clan to have multiple matches a day or play gathers. Distance yourself from them who cause you so much frustration, to the extent that you post it here.
Or.. simply, live with it. Either accept that those are viable upgrades, or believe that the ONLY reason this guy beat you is because he has Focus, cloak, redemption AND is an onos... TBH don't play on combat servers giving more than 10 levels - thats like playing an NS server with 32 players... Just not balanced.
1. get server
2. lock it
3. invite people
the end. you want to change the WHOLE game just for clans. i like the game as it is now. being able to jump into a 28 person server and just do my thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's people like you that are killing this game.
It's people like you that are killing this game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, that kind of comment just doesn't help anything. It certainly doesn't make your point any better. Help us understand what balance changes you think are needed to make the game more clan oriented. None of us know what exactly what things you think need to be changed. Lets get this thread onto a sensible course.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
SO what happens if 3 or more clan players join that server, with these variables in place, they will seem godlike on the server. As will the higher level public players.
That kind of thing doesn't work. The game balance needs to work with a team of new players as much as it does with a team of long term high skilled players - That is the problem with NS, it is VERY hard to balance this kind of game. Most online team games are fine, just make both teams equal, or give them alternative weapons that do the job. But RTS is insane to balance, look at Dawn of War for instance - one team had a pretty much invincible squad - due to playtesters missing it.
NS probably wont have perfect balance, but will eventually come close to it.
And no, I haven't the faintest idea how to balance the game. I dont proffess to know.
Pubbies have to learn to shut up and start mimicing their betters. The last thing they should be doing is assuming the game should be completely and arbitrarily balanced for the people who haven't got a clue how to play it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quoted for emphasis+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quoted for emphasis)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. play is balance for pubs where players aren't good at playing fade
-Since the fades get owned because the players aren't as skilled the devs give the fade 50% more hp and increase its rate of speed.
-Now the pubber are happy because they can kill stuff as a walker fade and not die as much.
<span style='color:red'>-clan player or any good player comes into the server and goes fade. This player absolutely destroys anything and everything. Pubbers cry.</span><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guarantee you this is what you will see if you balance anything at all for pubbers no matter what it is.
Also, ultranewb, go find a game with a learning curve that looks like this: "_________________________________" if you don't like NS. It's not like the best players are somehow magically able to command their fade to blink all over the room and in and out and simultaniously kill the marines while doing so. They learned how to do it.
If you can't handle a little education, get the hell out of our school, punks.
Ok.
<span style='color:red'><b><i>Pubbers aren't important outside of maintaining the appearance of a game's popularity. And that's not even a true measure of the quality and depth of a game.</i></b></span>
Clan and top tier competition is what any and all competitive activities are fundamentally about. Does the NBA balance basketball for highschool kids? The answer is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
As a side note, I am not in a clan, I was only in one for like a week before it disolved from lack of interest, but I will defend this position all the same, because it is correct. I play in pubs, but I will continue saying the things I'm saying because they are the truth. I love NS, that's why I don't want to see it ruined. Now excuse me, I have a road trip I have to be preparing for. Be back around monday. Enjoy the reprieve. P34C3.
You CAN'T balance for public play. Public play has players from the best in the world to new people who haven't played 5 minutes. You simply cannot balance for an enviroment as random as a public server, the outcome is decided by which teams certain players go on. You'd be trying to balance for a random enviroment with no controllable factors what so ever and you cannot do it.
Trying to balance for public is like trying to make 2+2 = 6. IT SIMPLY CANNOT BE DONE.
Sure and make carapace an obsolete upgrade for onos's.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->reduce redemp back to 25% or whatever it was<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why? to make gorges easier to kill? 90% of the time Gorges are the only unit with redemption and its well needed. Any other lifeform will find better use with another upgrade.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->lower fade carapaced armor by 20.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
20 points? why? so I can take that 1 less hmg bullet?
why reverse the changes the dev's tried to make work?