You should set up a server with that map and sv_gravity -800 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1.x bast is good enough for a single player game. That was its attraction, I will confidently state not only for myself but for others: its feel. its atmosphere
<!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Jan 30 2005, 09:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Jan 30 2005, 09:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe it shouldn't have been remade because it was never good and never can be while still showing any resemblance to the bast we have now <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG, DONT REPLY WITHOUT DOWNLOADING THE CLASSIC REMAKE AND PLAYING IT
seriously, the amount of people on here that reply and dont know what the F**K they are talking about is insane. but im not going to ruin the surprise for the rest of the people who are actaully going to download that map.
seriously, when i played the map, i laughed for about 5 mins as i ran through the map. GJ Mendasp, ive always liked bast, and i always will. main reason? cause the map looks cool, and there's no way i could ever make a map this good. same thing with sava. i know that its terrible balanced, but i dont go flaming the creator because the map is slightly one-sided. i dont flame because i dont know what needs to be done to improve it, and i cant make a map myself. i trust the map makers cause they know what they are doing and i dont.
so, you dont like bast. in that case, you wanna play a map made by me??? no, no you dont.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jan 30 2005, 10:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jan 30 2005, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Jan 30 2005, 09:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jan 30 2005, 09:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Jan 30 2005, 03:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Jan 30 2005, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe it shouldn't have been remade because it was never good and never can be while still showing any resemblance to the bast we have now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Why was it never good? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> because it was always horribly unbalanced and unfair to both teams, kinda like mineshaft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm still wondering how a map can be unfair to <b>both</b> teams. Do the space orcs always win on Mineshaft? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Drummer+Jan 30 2005, 01:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Drummer @ Jan 30 2005, 01:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-comrade+Jan 30 2005, 09:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (comrade @ Jan 30 2005, 09:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> maybe it shouldn't have been remade because it was never good and never can be while still showing any resemblance to the bast we have now <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG, DONT REPLY WITHOUT DOWNLOADING THE CLASSIC REMAKE AND PLAYING IT
seriously, the amount of people on here that reply and dont know what the F**K they are talking about is insane. but im not going to ruin the surprise for the rest of the people who are actaully going to download that map.
seriously, when i played the map, i laughed for about 5 mins as i ran through the map. GJ Mendasp, ive always liked bast, and i always will. main reason? cause the map looks cool, and there's no way i could ever make a map this good. same thing with sava. i know that its terrible balanced, but i dont go flaming the creator because the map is slightly one-sided. i dont flame because i dont know what needs to be done to improve it, and i cant make a map myself. i trust the map makers cause they know what they are doing and i dont.
so, you dont like bast. in that case, you wanna play a map made by me??? no, no you dont. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i was talking about the remake they made for 3.0 betas, not this one
<!--QuoteBegin-Kali+Jan 30 2005, 09:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kali @ Jan 30 2005, 09:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All right.
Mirror up: <a href='http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256' target='_blank'>http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256</a> News up : <a href='http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com' target='_blank'>http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> u realsie this isnt actually a classic version but a fun version that is upside down?
Mirror up: <a href='http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256' target='_blank'>http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256</a> News up : <a href='http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com' target='_blank'>http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> u realsie this isnt actually a classic version but a fun version that is upside down? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> rofl
Guy 1 - I love banana sandwiches but that last one had a few problems.
Guy 2 - NP I can fix those up for a new optimised banana sandwich!
~ weeks pass ~
Guy 2 - I need feedback on the new banana sandwich!
Guy 1 - *chews... chews... swallows* Dude there's no banana in this. There's no bread in it either. Its a lasagne. Its a nice lasagne, but its not a banana sandwich.
Guy 2 - OGM YOU HATER I WANT CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK!
Guy 1 - Look man, its not a banana sandwich, why not just call it a lasagne so people can appreciate it? Its a nice lasange, as they go, but it could use a bit more cheese and egg sauce.
Guy 2 - HATER!! HATER!!! ITS A BANANA SANDWICH OPTIMISED!!
~ time passes ~
Guy 2 - HERE'S YOUR BANANA SANDWICH, YOU HATING HATER.
*gives Guy 1 a banana sandwich which is a bit of bread between two bits of banana*
Guy 2 - OGM TEH LOLZ I AM SO FUNNEH GIVE ME COOKIES.
Mendasp, may have started as a joke thread, but I think its not so much that people can't give constructive criticism, they just really liked Basts atmosphere. If you'd renamed the map you'd have had very few problems. Its just people expect Bast, and they're not getting Bast, they're getting something else. Its a something else which has its merits, but its not Bast. I dunno any other way to really clarify that, I mean it should make enough sense like that. I feel for you, since I get the same useless feedback from people about my custom stuff...
Person - this model is borked Me - Which bit? Which model Person - The skulk, when it dies Me - Dies doing what? What do you mean by borked Person *never replies again* Me - Oh for goodness sake...
But at the same time, if I release a "new" Aliens pack, with lots of bunnies and no Aliens, then people would keep asking where the Aliens are, or why the bunnies aren't Aliens. Yes, I might have made nicely animated and pretty bunnies, but they're not Aliens. Perhaps I should have renamed it the Bunny Pack, and would get more constructive feedback.
*shrug*
Its just a shame that a joke thread has got out of hand because some of us didn't really find it funny that we're being called whiners because we just wanted a tweaked version of one of our favourite maps, not an almost totally novel one.
This is indeed ns_bast, what has changed? All the "it isn't bast anymore" comes from the removal of the revolving door, if bast was ONLY that door, then, yes, it requires a new name. What has changed from the atmosphere? Same map, same lighting scheme, same texturing, same sounds (ALMOST 50 OF THEM!). Dunno, that door was all the atmosphere bast had? Well, what a **** map, then.
You see, the only that has changed from 3.0 b4 to b5 was the MS -> Engine area (not even a quarter of the map). Now I can't flipping make a change without people jumping on me for it (I better not touch the observation bridge area!!)... and I can imagine what's going to be the next complain item when the next constie beta is released...
damn, after reading this thread and others round here, i honestly dont think i can be ragged to submit my map as an official. i dont think people trully appreciate the work that goes into a mapping and what it takes to trully finish and pollish a map unless u hav an official map yourself.
mendasp deserves a medal for puttin up with this sh*t, he didnt hav to remake it, he did cos ppl wanted to play a fixed version of bast, so show some ****in respect.
Necrosis, do you really think there is as much difference between the old bast and the new bast as there is between a banana sandwich and lasagna? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> One of the worst analogies outside of the Discussion forum I've ever seen.
I thought everyone who played 2.0 hated bast except for 1.04 people who like it only for the nostalgia. 3.0 is a huge leap in balance for bast.. what's not to like? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Its not just "the door", the whole pace of gameplay on the map has changed. Familiar rooms have been jiggled around, you can now run straight into engine, its like the map has been speeded up.
You used to be able to have a little look at your surroundings, and fight at the dreaded MS lift. The big door stopped most straight rushes to Engine hive, and there would be epic battles in the venting system around engine.
Now its a couple of bland corridors. It used to be one of the busiest areas on the map, what with ninjas, sieges, and secret chamber bases.
Nancy wasn't changed too much when it was debuggified, its still recognisable as Nancy. Refinery is still recognisable as Bast, but the north section is as if a second map got spliced in there. Old old hera was a scary map, and the current version is still Heralike but plays better.
If you judge a map in terms of the pace of play, general layout, and key hot spots, then yes I'd say Bast has changed. That doesnt make it a bad map, it just makes it something different to the original Bast.
There will always be different viewpoints on this... some people will want a more "fair" map, people will like atmospheric maps, some will like fun maps, and some will like challenging maps. New Bast might be fairer and a bit more generic, but in the process it has lost a bit of its character, it just doesnt play the same way.
Some people would have been happier with a tighter refinery (or more cluttered ceiling), a bit more length between Engine and MS in order to stop any silly sieging, and a few tweaks here and there, but in essence Basts playability has been radically altered.
Popsicle, there's a difference between fixing a map and remaking it. Bast has been remade, the gameplay has changed, and one of the more interesting and characterful areas has been significantly altered. Noone is saying they don't have respect for mappers, its just the map is a big change from the original.
Sky, yes, I think there's a big difference which is noticeable when playing it. Second, lasagne and banana sandwiches are similar in that they're tasty, they're good food, you can eat them, and they're not liquids. They just don't taste the same, and if you're expecting a banana sandwich then you want to taste a banana sandwich. It might be a good lasagne, but you didn't want a lasagne.
Alkiller, some people have said it doesn't play like Bast, what more detail is really needed? The north section of the map plays differently, engine hive has to be played differently, marine start is revamped, there's less venthopping fun.
Balance is nice but boring. If NS was balanced, both teams would be marines with the same tech tree. They would be on 2 base mirrored maps where one half is identical to the other, and there would be no commander, just buy menus. That would be "balanced" but it would kill the concept of NS. Its all about calculated imbalance, character, play speed, atmosphere, the little nuances. Bast doesn't play the same. It might play better, it might be more fair, but in the process it doesn't play like Bast.
The problem is some people can't see the character side of things, or the play speed, they just look at making things balanced to the detriment of the spirit of the game. Would you play NS if it was just a Team Fortress clone?
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Dogbite+Jan 30 2005, 09:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dogbite @ Jan 30 2005, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ouch, That hurt my brain. Keep up the good work Mend. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> this is surprisingly like my experience. and you should have adjusted certain entities so they work properly.
I want the next person who offers worthless commentary that has absolutely no critical value to submit with it a list of official maps that they maintain which are included in popular half-life mods. If this list includes no maps, then either post <i>something useful</i> or <b>don't post</b>.
Mendasp is free to do pretty much whatever he wants with the map, because he's devoted more blood, sweat and tears to remaking, maintaining and improving it than anyone else on the forums, which makes him the most qualified to make design decisions. Your personal dislike or opinion on some detail or another doesn't make you qualified for that role <b>at all</b>.
Besides, he's already come to the forums asking for advice and input on how to make the map into something that everyone likes. You know what he got? Scroll back up to the first post if you need an example. That thread has since been locked due to that sort of commentary.
from what ive heard, bast is changeing in beta 6, and engine is going to take longer to get to, so marines cant rush it so quickly. with the current bast, it seems like a big loop. most of the traveling of the map takes place in a loop. i rarely find myself cutting across the map to get somewhere. im not sure how to fix this, but it makes it so you're not travelling the best looking parts of the map, the center. ill just wait till beta 6 comes out. if i like the new bast, great. if i dont, ill try to better gather my thoughts. good work Mr. Paperclip, no one can take away your map's originality
I tried it with... my monitor upside down and... its perfect! <img src='http://users.skynet.be/droggog/rtounge.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravatar+Jan 31 2005, 07:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ravatar @ Jan 31 2005, 07:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <span style='color:white'>Oops, you didn't include your list of maps!</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> winnar! \o\ go go bob!
While the new bast is more balanced I do miss the old bast with the vents going to N Corridor from marine start. Could you please make ns_bast_classic without flipping it upside down? You got my hopes up, and then crushed them you bastard <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
OMG, DONT REPLY WITHOUT DOWNLOADING THE CLASSIC REMAKE AND PLAYING IT
seriously, the amount of people on here that reply and dont know what the F**K they are talking about is insane. but im not going to ruin the surprise for the rest of the people who are actaully going to download that map.
seriously, when i played the map, i laughed for about 5 mins as i ran through the map. GJ Mendasp, ive always liked bast, and i always will. main reason? cause the map looks cool, and there's no way i could ever make a map this good. same thing with sava. i know that its terrible balanced, but i dont go flaming the creator because the map is slightly one-sided. i dont flame because i dont know what needs to be done to improve it, and i cant make a map myself. i trust the map makers cause they know what they are doing and i dont.
so, you dont like bast. in that case, you wanna play a map made by me???
no, no you dont.
Why was it never good? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because it was always horribly unbalanced and unfair to both teams, kinda like mineshaft. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm still wondering how a map can be unfair to <b>both</b> teams. Do the space orcs always win on Mineshaft? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OMG, DONT REPLY WITHOUT DOWNLOADING THE CLASSIC REMAKE AND PLAYING IT
seriously, the amount of people on here that reply and dont know what the F**K they are talking about is insane. but im not going to ruin the surprise for the rest of the people who are actaully going to download that map.
seriously, when i played the map, i laughed for about 5 mins as i ran through the map. GJ Mendasp, ive always liked bast, and i always will. main reason? cause the map looks cool, and there's no way i could ever make a map this good. same thing with sava. i know that its terrible balanced, but i dont go flaming the creator because the map is slightly one-sided. i dont flame because i dont know what needs to be done to improve it, and i cant make a map myself. i trust the map makers cause they know what they are doing and i dont.
so, you dont like bast. in that case, you wanna play a map made by me???
no, no you dont. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i was talking about the remake they made for 3.0 betas, not this one
Mirror up: <a href='http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256' target='_blank'>http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256</a>
News up : <a href='http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com' target='_blank'>http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com</a>
Mirror up: <a href='http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256' target='_blank'>http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256</a>
News up : <a href='http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com' target='_blank'>http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
u realsie this isnt actually a classic version but a fun version that is upside down?
Mirror up: <a href='http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256' target='_blank'>http://www.pexgames.com/filebase/?act=file_info&id=26256</a>
News up : <a href='http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com' target='_blank'>http://www.naturalselection.pexgames.com</a> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
u realsie this isnt actually a classic version but a fun version that is upside down? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl
Guy 2 - NP I can fix those up for a new optimised banana sandwich!
~ weeks pass ~
Guy 2 - I need feedback on the new banana sandwich!
Guy 1 - *chews... chews... swallows* Dude there's no banana in this. There's no bread in it either. Its a lasagne. Its a nice lasagne, but its not a banana sandwich.
Guy 2 - OGM YOU HATER I WANT CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK!
Guy 1 - Look man, its not a banana sandwich, why not just call it a lasagne so people can appreciate it? Its a nice lasange, as they go, but it could use a bit more cheese and egg sauce.
Guy 2 - HATER!! HATER!!! ITS A BANANA SANDWICH OPTIMISED!!
~ time passes ~
Guy 2 - HERE'S YOUR BANANA SANDWICH, YOU HATING HATER.
*gives Guy 1 a banana sandwich which is a bit of bread between two bits of banana*
Guy 2 - OGM TEH LOLZ I AM SO FUNNEH GIVE ME COOKIES.
Mendasp, may have started as a joke thread, but I think its not so much that people can't give constructive criticism, they just really liked Basts atmosphere. If you'd renamed the map you'd have had very few problems. Its just people expect Bast, and they're not getting Bast, they're getting something else. Its a something else which has its merits, but its not Bast. I dunno any other way to really clarify that, I mean it should make enough sense like that. I feel for you, since I get the same useless feedback from people about my custom stuff...
Person - this model is borked
Me - Which bit? Which model
Person - The skulk, when it dies
Me - Dies doing what? What do you mean by borked
Person *never replies again*
Me - Oh for goodness sake...
But at the same time, if I release a "new" Aliens pack, with lots of bunnies and no Aliens, then people would keep asking where the Aliens are, or why the bunnies aren't Aliens. Yes, I might have made nicely animated and pretty bunnies, but they're not Aliens. Perhaps I should have renamed it the Bunny Pack, and would get more constructive feedback.
*shrug*
Its just a shame that a joke thread has got out of hand because some of us didn't really find it funny that we're being called whiners because we just wanted a tweaked version of one of our favourite maps, not an almost totally novel one.
You see, the only that has changed from 3.0 b4 to b5 was the MS -> Engine area (not even a quarter of the map). Now I can't flipping make a change without people jumping on me for it (I better not touch the observation bridge area!!)... and I can imagine what's going to be the next complain item when the next constie beta is released...
I sooooooooooooooooo want to see this on a server!
mendasp deserves a medal for puttin up with this sh*t, he didnt hav to remake it, he did cos ppl wanted to play a fixed version of bast, so show some ****in respect.
that is all.
In reality what happens is:
Guy 1 - I love banana sandwiches but that last one had a few problems.
Guy 2 - NP I can fix those up for a new optimised banana sandwich!
~ weeks pass ~
Guy 2 - I need feedback on the new banana sandwich!
Guy 1 - *chews... chews... swallows* its not a banana sandwich.
The rest of the stuff, explaining HOW it isn't a banana sandwich, never happens. Mendasp can only guess as to why (as you can see above).
Oh and mendasp, suggest a rename, ns_tsab. One just has to throw in a shameless pun.
the new bast sucks!! Every single player with a normal mind will say the same..
HOW DO YOU DO THAT? YOU ARE REALLY CRAZY PAPERCLIP LOL
You used to be able to have a little look at your surroundings, and fight at the dreaded MS lift. The big door stopped most straight rushes to Engine hive, and there would be epic battles in the venting system around engine.
Now its a couple of bland corridors. It used to be one of the busiest areas on the map, what with ninjas, sieges, and secret chamber bases.
Nancy wasn't changed too much when it was debuggified, its still recognisable as Nancy. Refinery is still recognisable as Bast, but the north section is as if a second map got spliced in there. Old old hera was a scary map, and the current version is still Heralike but plays better.
If you judge a map in terms of the pace of play, general layout, and key hot spots, then yes I'd say Bast has changed. That doesnt make it a bad map, it just makes it something different to the original Bast.
There will always be different viewpoints on this... some people will want a more "fair" map, people will like atmospheric maps, some will like fun maps, and some will like challenging maps. New Bast might be fairer and a bit more generic, but in the process it has lost a bit of its character, it just doesnt play the same way.
Some people would have been happier with a tighter refinery (or more cluttered ceiling), a bit more length between Engine and MS in order to stop any silly sieging, and a few tweaks here and there, but in essence Basts playability has been radically altered.
Popsicle, there's a difference between fixing a map and remaking it. Bast has been remade, the gameplay has changed, and one of the more interesting and characterful areas has been significantly altered. Noone is saying they don't have respect for mappers, its just the map is a big change from the original.
Sky, yes, I think there's a big difference which is noticeable when playing it. Second, lasagne and banana sandwiches are similar in that they're tasty, they're good food, you can eat them, and they're not liquids. They just don't taste the same, and if you're expecting a banana sandwich then you want to taste a banana sandwich. It might be a good lasagne, but you didn't want a lasagne.
Alkiller, some people have said it doesn't play like Bast, what more detail is really needed? The north section of the map plays differently, engine hive has to be played differently, marine start is revamped, there's less venthopping fun.
Balance is nice but boring. If NS was balanced, both teams would be marines with the same tech tree. They would be on 2 base mirrored maps where one half is identical to the other, and there would be no commander, just buy menus. That would be "balanced" but it would kill the concept of NS. Its all about calculated imbalance, character, play speed, atmosphere, the little nuances. Bast doesn't play the same. It might play better, it might be more fair, but in the process it doesn't play like Bast.
The problem is some people can't see the character side of things, or the play speed, they just look at making things balanced to the detriment of the spirit of the game. Would you play NS if it was just a Team Fortress clone?
this is surprisingly like my experience.
and you should have adjusted certain entities so they work properly.
Mendasp is free to do pretty much whatever he wants with the map, because he's devoted more blood, sweat and tears to remaking, maintaining and improving it than anyone else on the forums, which makes him the most qualified to make design decisions. Your personal dislike or opinion on some detail or another doesn't make you qualified for that role <b>at all</b>.
Besides, he's already come to the forums asking for advice and input on how to make the map into something that everyone likes. You know what he got? Scroll back up to the first post if you need an example. That thread has since been locked due to that sort of commentary.
it takes longer now, though only mendasp knows how that section might change in the future
I tried it with... my monitor upside down and... its perfect! <img src='http://users.skynet.be/droggog/rtounge.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
winnar! \o\ go go bob!