Hl2 Vs. Doom 3
<div class="IPBDescription">Not a heated post, just thinking...</div> Warning: Long Post
The story goes something like this: I followed the hype of both Doom 3 and HL2 before their release, got both soon after their release. Doom 3 was disappointing. HL2 was very satisfying.
Doom 3 was disappointing in 3 ways - A) It didn't feel like Doom, B) It wasn't scary, I didn't jump, and C) It ran slow
Fast forward a tad, now I have a computer capable, and I played HL2 to the point where the inital "OMJ RAGDOLL" buzz has worn off and it's become another game which I now notice had, in my experience, only one memorable sequence (kickass hoverboat vs. chopper fight). Most of the game's quality lied in the immersion and appearance, which was very very good... But it soon becomes apparent that your arsenal, outside of the shotgun, is never quite satisfying (also partly due to rarity of revolver bullets). The game is still fun, it's just very apparent now the game's far from perfect, it just has an incredibile feel and story.
So I started playing through Doom 3. "Meh", my initial reaction, was made because it really seemed like an average shooter with a pretty face. I wasn't overly **** with it now that I had no expectations, so it seemed average. Almost worth the $55. No better than, say, Project: Snowblind or Command and Conquer: Renegade if it weren't for the nice looking engine. The game continued at this quality as it introuced the new versions of enemies I fight on a regular basis in ZDoomGL (Cacodemon, Imp, etc..). The only one that I actually liked more than the original was the new Pinkie (which, btw, is completely badass). So yeah, I figure that my intial reaction was it, this game is just another 'meh', to be thrown aside with Oni and Daikatana as games-that-should-have-been-awesome.
Today, I first encountered and beat the Hell level. Doom 3 is now one of the best FPS games I've played since Duke Nukem 3D, right on par with HL2 (note Duke Nukem 3D <i>is</i> my favorite FPS game ever and I still play it today). First thing I notice about the Hell level is that it takes place outside of the by now stupidly dull base and takes place in, well, hell... The first room of the level is so incredible and so atmospheric I stood there for a good five minutes just looking around. Second thing I notice is that there's infinite stamina, which leads me to run straight into the third thing I notice, which is a surplus of ammo for powerful weapons, which assists when I notice the 4th and best part of the hell level - The challenge has changed from finding ammo and surviving with somewhat limited supplies in a dark area, to just being able to kill every one of the dozens upon dozens of monsters.
It felt like Doom's sequel. It's at this point that I also notice the game isn't scary at all... But it can be very subtlely creepy at times. To sum it up, classic Doom glory followed by an awesome boss leads you to a new weapon then back into Delta Labs. The new weapon, combined with the apperance of Arch-Viles, make fighting in Delta Labs a lot more intense, though it's still much less than the excitement in the Hell level. Also, Betruger, the antagonist, apparentley finishes puberty during the Hell level and his voice isn't absurdly annyoing and/or laughable when you come back to the labs... This basically fixes my two main problems with the game.
So now it seems not even fair to compare Doom 3 to HL2... HL2 is more of an interactive movie built for the mainstream, where Doom 3 is more of a conventional shooter built for gamers that're less than casual.
Imo, my comparisons would go like this:
Half-Life 2 to Halo 2
(Main differences here: One has dual-weilding, one has a gravity gun; one has a protagonist with a personality, one is an interactive movie)
Doom 3 to Metroid: Prime
(If you've played through both and think like me, you'll notice more similarities between these two than between Doom 3 and Half-Life 2)
So now I ask you, reader who is by now wondering why he began reading this... Now that these two games are over, what did you think of them? Where could FPS games possibly go from here? Are you actually hyped about any?
Personally, the only games I think can top either Doom 3 or HL2 will be NS2 or Duke Nukem: Forever.
The story goes something like this: I followed the hype of both Doom 3 and HL2 before their release, got both soon after their release. Doom 3 was disappointing. HL2 was very satisfying.
Doom 3 was disappointing in 3 ways - A) It didn't feel like Doom, B) It wasn't scary, I didn't jump, and C) It ran slow
Fast forward a tad, now I have a computer capable, and I played HL2 to the point where the inital "OMJ RAGDOLL" buzz has worn off and it's become another game which I now notice had, in my experience, only one memorable sequence (kickass hoverboat vs. chopper fight). Most of the game's quality lied in the immersion and appearance, which was very very good... But it soon becomes apparent that your arsenal, outside of the shotgun, is never quite satisfying (also partly due to rarity of revolver bullets). The game is still fun, it's just very apparent now the game's far from perfect, it just has an incredibile feel and story.
So I started playing through Doom 3. "Meh", my initial reaction, was made because it really seemed like an average shooter with a pretty face. I wasn't overly **** with it now that I had no expectations, so it seemed average. Almost worth the $55. No better than, say, Project: Snowblind or Command and Conquer: Renegade if it weren't for the nice looking engine. The game continued at this quality as it introuced the new versions of enemies I fight on a regular basis in ZDoomGL (Cacodemon, Imp, etc..). The only one that I actually liked more than the original was the new Pinkie (which, btw, is completely badass). So yeah, I figure that my intial reaction was it, this game is just another 'meh', to be thrown aside with Oni and Daikatana as games-that-should-have-been-awesome.
Today, I first encountered and beat the Hell level. Doom 3 is now one of the best FPS games I've played since Duke Nukem 3D, right on par with HL2 (note Duke Nukem 3D <i>is</i> my favorite FPS game ever and I still play it today). First thing I notice about the Hell level is that it takes place outside of the by now stupidly dull base and takes place in, well, hell... The first room of the level is so incredible and so atmospheric I stood there for a good five minutes just looking around. Second thing I notice is that there's infinite stamina, which leads me to run straight into the third thing I notice, which is a surplus of ammo for powerful weapons, which assists when I notice the 4th and best part of the hell level - The challenge has changed from finding ammo and surviving with somewhat limited supplies in a dark area, to just being able to kill every one of the dozens upon dozens of monsters.
It felt like Doom's sequel. It's at this point that I also notice the game isn't scary at all... But it can be very subtlely creepy at times. To sum it up, classic Doom glory followed by an awesome boss leads you to a new weapon then back into Delta Labs. The new weapon, combined with the apperance of Arch-Viles, make fighting in Delta Labs a lot more intense, though it's still much less than the excitement in the Hell level. Also, Betruger, the antagonist, apparentley finishes puberty during the Hell level and his voice isn't absurdly annyoing and/or laughable when you come back to the labs... This basically fixes my two main problems with the game.
So now it seems not even fair to compare Doom 3 to HL2... HL2 is more of an interactive movie built for the mainstream, where Doom 3 is more of a conventional shooter built for gamers that're less than casual.
Imo, my comparisons would go like this:
Half-Life 2 to Halo 2
(Main differences here: One has dual-weilding, one has a gravity gun; one has a protagonist with a personality, one is an interactive movie)
Doom 3 to Metroid: Prime
(If you've played through both and think like me, you'll notice more similarities between these two than between Doom 3 and Half-Life 2)
So now I ask you, reader who is by now wondering why he began reading this... Now that these two games are over, what did you think of them? Where could FPS games possibly go from here? Are you actually hyped about any?
Personally, the only games I think can top either Doom 3 or HL2 will be NS2 or Duke Nukem: Forever.
Comments
What have you done?
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To answer your question "Where does it go from here?" all I have to say is that where ever we are headed, we will NOT be getting there anytime soon, at least not till we get a flood of games with pretty faces and no plots.
And Duke Nukem: Forever, I've givin up hope <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I thought it was going to be a WONDEFUL game, if it would have been created in its appropriate time. Now its a ghost.
FPS going on from here? Well, the sky's the limit, and by golly, the game developers are going to reach for it.
But I thought that HL2 had more memorable segments that that, personally. Like the assault on Nova Prospekt with the antlions. Was one of my favourite parts. The buggy section would have been a nice diversion had it not handled like a shopping cart.
<span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>And DN3d was definitely boss.</span>
The Antlions I thought were pretty cool, until I realized that it didn't matter if I had pheropods or not, they'd still follow me even in parts I didn't want them to, and they started tripping mines I stood next to and killing me... Though the Antlion mother was still the most fun recurring monster in the game... Either that or the gunship.
Buggy... The only enjoyable part of the Far Cry was the way the jeep drove... If the HL2 buggy drove somewhat like that, it would've been sweet. I also didn't like the redone gauss on the buggy...
Points A and B are a matter of personal choice. I felt that DOOM 3 was very much like DOOM, in the style and mood, etc. It wasn't run and gun no, but if that's your sole judgement then Duke 3D and Serious Sam are just like DOOM too...
But compared to Half-Life 2?
Look at my nick. Look at my avatar. Now comprehend these words:
In terms of lighting, DOOM 3 beats HL2. In every other category imaginable Half-Life 2 utterly pwns DOOM 3. I enjoyed HL2 far, far more than I did DOOM3. I've also played through HL2 three times, DOOM 3 I haven't even started a second play through.
I played the demo for Doom3. Call me crazy, but I don't like it when 90% of the encounters are you against a single enemy. Plus, if I check a room thoroughly, I don't want an indistinguishable secret panel to pop out with a single weak enemy behind it. It's not scary, it's annoying. <span style='color:black'>The darkness of the game isn't scary, it's just annoying, and when combined with the often repetitive architecture, it makes the maps hard to navigate</span>. I have no desire to play the full game.
Speaking of which, does anyone know how to get the super grav gun from the console?
Load up the citadel level you get the physcannon in. (map d3_citadel_04)
Then change to whatever level you want to play on. (ex. changelevel d1_trainstation_01)
then just type in give weapon_superphyscannon.
I believe that should work.
Pretty much anything tech-wise is a turkey shoot in d3's favor.* <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I'd even go so far to say (now keep in mind as I'm saying this I got much more enjoyment out of HL2 than I did D3 ) that Doom <i>technically</i> had the better story... Not because it was anything fantastic or had some incredible writing, but because it tied together and was explained rather than writing a little bit and leaving it to overzealous fans to come up with their own crackpot theories. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have to be honest, though. I haven't really had any interest in re-playing HL2, as much as I loved it. I'm definitely looking forward to trying out Lost Coast and Aftermath, but I think I almost am more looking forward to playing through the D3 expansion when I have time. Dunno why. Probably just a matter of preferring to play something I haven't due to how little time I have to play games (other than WoW)...
*Content, however, mostly goes to HL2. Do not confuse technology and content. I say again, do not confuse technology and content. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Doom 3 is a technically astounding game, visually it's excellent even on my POS computer, and the lighting, whilst being unrealistic and blocky, is a damn sight better than HL2's excuse for lighting, which i'll mention something of later. But i feel right now that Doom 3 is incomplete without ROE. ROE added more diversity and more fun into the game than Doom 3 had from the start. Doom 3 got quite repetative, and the array of weapons were generally useless when all you need is the shotgun. ROE, with the inclusion of the new power ups and weapons makes it just a hell of a lot more fun. The bullet time makes taking on a room full of enemies or otherwise impossible odds (Hey, <i>you</i> try aiming at 5fps. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) a hell of a lot easier and a lot more fun, and the grav gun, despite just being another gimmick to sell games, is quite fun to use, especially the first Hunter boss.
Half-Life 2, on the other hand, i hate from a number of technical aspects. In medium quality (Which i have to run in) all the textures have this apalling "jpeg compression" quality to them, the lighting seems a lot of the time to disobey the concept of light travelling in straight lines, especially at times when it likes to cast shadows facing towards the light source itself. The AI, on the whole, is pretty dense, it's not terrible, but it's a far cry for being anything special, the weapon selection, if varied, seems underpowered, and the cool innovative weapons (Grav gun, Bugbait) are nothing but pointless gimmicks in the end, and some of them are generally horrible in appearance (Combine rifle, anyone?). I can't, however, fault the story or immersion, i really enjoyed it, and as a single player fps experience, it was definately competant, moreso than Doom 3's pretty weak story, but with hindsight, it has a hell of a lot of flaws, and even now, only some 6 months or so since it's released, it's already seeming quite dated to me, where Doom 3 is still looking pretty damned stunning.
So... um, yeah.
Far Cry = underrated
Sure the lighting is revolutionary, and it makes use of some really excellent shaders, but it seems that all of the textures are bland and cartoonish. The skin has few imperfections, all the rooms look clean, i mean what kind of horror FPS looks like that?
Doom 3 really did have some nice tech behind it though, its just graphics upgrades are standard in later versions of games, realistic physics was something new.
On top of which HL was more successful than doom or doom 2, maybe because the plot is less offencive <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> but im sure the popularity of HL contributed greatly to HL²'s success.
But if you haven't tried Doom3 a second time through then you've missed Hell mode...which is awesome. It's insanely hard, and you're always on the edge of death...but on the other hand, its a nice change to not have to worry about finding health, since even with max health you're STILL on the edge of death. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So basically, on Hell Mode you don't have to worry about the "limited supplies" part that Crono5 thought was so boring. Finding health is irrelevant because of the way they rework the health system for Hell Mode, and you never run out of ammo simply because you don't miss. Why don't you miss? Because if you miss, you tend to die, very fast. Admittedly, it gets a bit frutrating sometimes. But the frustration comes solely from combat, which is fun, rather than searching for items, which can be boring.
(actually, I think it was called "Nightmare mode", not "Hell mode"...)
The parts that made HL2 good for me were the scripted sequences, the strider fights/vehicle chases (especially the gunship chase in the buggy). That, and the insane fun that the citadel levels were.
Conversely: the grenades suck...a lot. In fact, any weapon that blew up basically sucked (the only good explosions came from sporadically placed barrels).
On to the debate: HL2 puzzles > Doom 3 puzzles. Perhaps it's my POS computer, but I found Doom 3 to be fairly unexciting. Just boring looking for hallways in an unrealistically designe futuristic base. At some parts it looks nice (bathroom/mess lounge/hell/outside the planet)...but otherwise you're basically in a room that looks the same as that last room...and the one before that.
And after the first shooting level I'd already attuned myself to turning around right when I knew some loser-monster was going to bust out of 'convienently' placed shaft/conduit/locked door.
HL2 was fairly disappointing too, with the whole "You'll be able to choose where you want to go" aspect...which really only meant "You'll pass a barn, on the right - you can go in that barn, but it has no bearing on the plot or where you'll eventually go." Note to developers: never force a player to 'fall in love' <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> . Alyx doesn't look that good, no I would not venture into the citadel to find her, nor would I hop in a constricting chair-vehicle to reach my next destination.
But at least HL2 comes with CS:S with bots....which owns Doom 3 (but needs more bouncy death balls).
The most important thing for me for moddage is that lots of people have it so I think HL2 kinda wins on that.
...if you ignore the game Tresspasser released back in about 1999 which beat Valve to the physics punch by a good 6 years.
Far Cry = underrated <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes!
I've been saying since HL2 came out that Far Cry was the best of the "next gen" shooters, but few people believe me. The vehicles handled well and were all fun to use, the weapon variety was spot-on (as was the four-weapon limit), and the graphics are beautiful.
The game is also pretty much the perfect length - when you get to the end you're ready for the conclusion. Quite unlike HL2's "wait, that's it?" and Doom 3's yawnville after you get back from Hell and have to deal with the ancient ruins.
The only thing letting Far Cry down is the dumb voice acting, which is pretty minor.
You sir need to overlook that fact and give the game a chance.
I love Doom 3. The only problem I have with it is the simple fact you have to open up Doom 3 to use the mapping editor, unless I am dumb and need told a way round that? Which would be appreciated if that is possible.
Well their hearts were in the right place. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But really, if any game deserves credit for total physics implementation, even in this case if it was pretty shoddy, it's Trespasser, not HL2, and it beat it to it by a wide margin too.
I guess I just get too immersed in both of them, but in the case of Doom 3, I get scared and stop playing.
So, Hl2 wins for not scaring me shitless.
1. More fun <i>normal</i> weapons
2. Dynamic shadowing
3. Polygon hitbox
Look back at the original Half Life. Sure, the single player was great, but it was the modding that brought longevity. Do you think HL would still be played today by so many people if Counterstrike had never happened?
The way I see it, these next-gen games usually aren't much more than fancy tech demos. Get a good mod team going, and they'll bring out the real potential of that engine. (not to mention that computers will be faster when mods come out so the engine can be pushed more)
Even though doom 3 and far cry are moddable, the majority of modders are going to stick with the most popular game of the three, so they can have the largest fanbase.
Is doom 3 moddable? of course it is. with that engine you could make some fantastic looking mods. But look at the multiplayer (standard D3 multiplayer is 4 players max). I don't know if it was limited through choice or necessity (though of course THEY said it was intentional), but it's clear at least that HL2 netcode is superior.
Far Cry was the first true DX9 title out there, beating Doom by 4-5 months, and there's no doubt in my mind that it's capable of some great mods (I have a custom single-player level that uses lighting and shadows just as well as Doom 3 does)...but two things really hurt this game...The first was that it was relatively unknown, while Doom and HL2 were both high-profile games, and already had a huge fan base. The second was a snafu with patches for the game - they were forced to recall patch 1.2, because of major issues with certain graphics cards. But the people with 1.2 working had much better graphical performance, so they didnt want to remove it, splitting the multiplayer fanbase for months until 1.3 came out.
Oh, and another thing that occurred to me is that HL2 has much lower PC requirements. The other games, esp D3, need fast computers to run
I disagree. I thought that HL2 had a better pistol, shotgun, and submachine gun. The feel of the weapons was much better. Doom3's guns felt a lot like BB guns at times.
Isn't HL2 the DX9 native (With backwards DX7 and 8 compatability) and Doom 3 is the one running in OGL?
Far Cry = underrated <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes!
I've been saying since HL2 came out that Far Cry was the best of the "next gen" shooters, but few people believe me. The vehicles handled well and were all fun to use, the weapon variety was spot-on (as was the four-weapon limit), and the graphics are beautiful.
The game is also pretty much the perfect length - when you get to the end you're ready for the conclusion. Quite unlike HL2's "wait, that's it?" and Doom 3's yawnville after you get back from Hell and have to deal with the ancient ruins.
The only thing letting Far Cry down is the dumb voice acting, which is pretty minor. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
my only qualms with Far Cry are with the game itself, not the engine...
1) mutant apes that can take half a clip in the head (even point blank shottie rounds) and survive
2) really stupid AI - spotted? hide in a bush. they'll walk right up to you...
3) binoculars mark where all targets in sight are
4) you (Jack) are also stupid for not changing out of your bright red hawaiian shirt while hiding in a (green) jungle...I guess it's okay as long as all the enemies are colorblind...
but the vehicles all feel just right (the hang glider even gets fouled up if that blasted helicopter gets above you), and there are plenty of ways to choose your own route...either go into the building, up the access route to the hang glider on top of the hill, or drive the FWD along several different routes, one along the beach, one higher up along a winding road... or make for the patrol boat, snipe out the driver/gunner, and swim over...
edit: ok, I'm done hijacking the thread to talk about Far Cry
btw, the HL buggy feels like you're sitting on a turbocharged skateboard. Am I wrong?
Isn't HL2 the DX9 native (With backwards DX7 and 8 compatability) and Doom 3 is the one running in OGL? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is correct esuna.