"It was said, "a scientific approach"; this does not mean that science will ever prove God's existence. The point however is that Science will never disprove God. Science and God are not separate, they are moving together in perfect harmony.
"pretty much all religions involves people killing other people, or that you must kill all people that not are of your religion: christianity (sp?) god says you must kill all who hasnt joined him. Islam says you must kill all hedens and the jews are the same as the christianity."
Please show me FROM the bible where it specifically EVER says to kill who hasn't joined him. If I remember correctly it says thou shalt not kill.
If you want to bring up things like the crusades, that wasn't gods will nor is it in the bible. It was a huge misinterpitation and also the catholic churches doing. You can't base god on the mistakes and actions from PEOPLE who are flawed, but goto the source which is the bible.
Like I said thou shall not kill, and jesus said to love your enemies, even when they whipped and beat him he didn't curse, he didn't send legions of angels down to kill them no what did he do? He PRAYED for them and asked the father to forgive them for what they do. He also WILLINGLY came down to earth to show and prove that he loved us. He didn't just say oh I love you nick! no he came down in the flesh knowing he would be hated, spit on, dispised, killed, its beyond words how beautiful and loving that is.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheGivingTree+May 24 2005, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheGivingTree @ May 24 2005, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "It was said, "a scientific approach"; this does not mean that science will ever prove God's existence. The point however is that Science will never disprove God. Science and God are not separate, they are moving together in perfect harmony.
~ DarkATi "
You put it perfectly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The whole purpose of the site you posted is that science can lead to God. It's a proponent of Intelligent Design.
Regardless, I can't accept something divine that is neither proven nor disproven.
God stands still; science moves forward. Until there is proper, recreatable evidence of God (which is hard to imagine happening), God and science will be separate.
I'd just like to start by saying I would have preferred to stay out of this one, but the ignorance on both sides, by thegivingtree and metalcat was so astounding it was absurd.
<!--QuoteBegin-thegivingtree+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (thegivingtree)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please show me FROM the bible where it specifically EVER says to kill who hasn't joined him. If I remember correctly it says thou shalt not kill.
If you want to bring up things like the crusades, that wasn't gods will nor is it in the bible. It was a huge misinterpitation and also the catholic churches doing. You can't base god on the mistakes and actions from PEOPLE who are flawed, but goto the source which is the bible. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually giving tree it mentions killing people quite a bit, for silly reasons, in addition but not limited to not following god.
<!--QuoteBegin-bible+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bible)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) (Bad translations, it is not reflecting homosexual behavior.)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB) <b> Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB) </b>
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB) <b> Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT) </b>
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
<b> 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT) </b>
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) (Another horrible translation)
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-thegivingtree+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (thegivingtree)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said thou shall not kill, and jesus said to love your enemies, even when they whipped and beat him he didn't curse, he didn't send legions of angels down to kill them no what did he do? He PRAYED for them and asked the father to forgive them for what they do. He also WILLINGLY came down to earth to show and prove that he loved us. He didn't just say oh I love you nick! no he came down in the flesh knowing he would be hated, spit on, dispised, killed, its beyond words how beautiful and loving that is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have yet to see that jesus is real, there is no evidence for it as of the moment. In fact, I have ventured so far to say he is a myth much like all the other god-men. The fact your bible/quaran/toran is translated so horribly by such idiotic people(read: political agendas), just proves my point. <!--QuoteBegin-JesusSeminar+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JesusSeminar)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> During the second phase of the Jesus Seminar, which lasted from 1991 to 1996, the Fellows examined 387 reports of 176 events, in most of which Jesus is the principal actor, although occasionally John the Baptist, Simon Peter, or Judas is featured. Of the 176 events, only ten were given a red rating (red indicates that the Fellows had a relatively high level of confidence that the event actually took place). An additional nineteen were colored pink (pink suggests that the event probably occurred). The combined number of red and pink events (29) amounts to 16% of the total (176). That is slightly lower than the 18% of the sayings—primarily parables and aphorisms—assigned to the red and pink categories in The Five Gospels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I really do not want to get into a debate about whether not not jesus lived, because you can't prove one way or the other. Not to mention, your orginal link was a waste of time, just like the origins in genesis (which I stated earlier) or the tektonics (which legionaired has posted before). They have absolutely NO basis in science at all. None, zip, zero, zlich.
DarkATi, don't bother sporting "a case for christ" as a reference book, that was just as bad as the "Sixteen cruxified saviors of the world" for bias.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DarkATi, don't bother sporting "a case for christ" as a reference book, that was just as bad as the "Sixteen cruxified saviors of the world" for bias. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+May 24 2005, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ May 24 2005, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DarkATi, don't bother sporting "a case for christ" as a reference book, that was just as bad as the "Sixteen cruxified saviors of the world" for bias. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I could have sworn you used it as a defense to something I have posted earlier, it was probably pepe or legionaired, then my apologies. :-)
Ouch! Cyndane is on fire, nice post <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually, I am just sick if people prancing around as if they even know what the bible says, the sheer stupidity of such a blanket statement such as "[sic too much]religion makes people dumb" and "the bible teaches tolerance and love" is such utter bollocks its rediculous.
If too much religion makes you dumb, I have to be the dumbest person on this planet, for I have studied darn near every single religion available that was considered a theological society. The bible clearly does not teach tolerance or love, but the same can be said for various other religious works, Vedas, Bravaghad-Gita, Qua'ran, Toran.
There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 24 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 24 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkATi+May 24 2005, 04:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkATi @ May 24 2005, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DarkATi, don't bother sporting "a case for christ" as a reference book, that was just as bad as the "Sixteen cruxified saviors of the world" for bias. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could have sworn you used it as a defense to something I have posted earlier, it was probably pepe or legionaired, then my apologies. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please. I can do my own apologetics, thank you.
I'd go through a point by point on the above with you, but if there's anything I've learned from our little spat over Egyptian religion, it's that arguing with you is pretty much useless, you only hear what you want to anyway.
Metalcat, it's 'Thou shalt not murder.'
Cyndane, "Doesn't refer to homosexual behavior?" Are you daft, woman? What do you propose it <b>does</b> mean?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose an enternity of unenlightenment doesn't count, right?
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+May 24 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ May 24 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> pretty much all religions involves people killing other people, or that you must kill all people that not are of your religion: christianity (sp?) god says you must kill all who hasnt joined him. Islam says you must kill all hedens and the jews are the same as the christianity.
only like buddhism and hinduism aint about violence <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's definately violence in religious texts, but it's not the core. If it was, then the violence wouldn't have been filtered out over time. And it has been, more or less.
No-one killed me in God's name while I was at a CoE school, anyway. (:
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 25 2005, 07:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 25 2005, 07:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, I am just sick if people prancing around as if they even know what the bible says, the sheer stupidity of such a blanket statement such as "[sic too much]religion makes people dumb" and "the bible teaches tolerance and love" is such utter bollocks its rediculous.
If too much religion makes you dumb, I have to be the dumbest person on this planet, for I have studied darn near every single religion available that was considered a theological society. The bible clearly does not teach tolerance or love, but the same can be said for various other religious works, Vedas, Bravaghad-Gita, Qua'ran, Toran.
There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> im not saying stutying or knowing about them makes you dumb, im saying believing in them makes you dumb, believe too hard in a religion and you will be blind to reality
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+May 25 2005, 12:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ May 25 2005, 12:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+May 24 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ May 24 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> pretty much all religions involves people killing other people, or that you must kill all people that not are of your religion: christianity (sp?) god says you must kill all who hasnt joined him. Islam says you must kill all hedens and the jews are the same as the christianity.
only like buddhism and hinduism aint about violence <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's definately violence in religious texts, but it's not the core. If it was, then the violence wouldn't have been filtered out over time. And it has been, more or less.
No-one killed me in God's name while I was at a CoE school, anyway. (: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> your point is?
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Please. I can do my own apologetics, thank you.
I'd go through a point by point on the above with you, but if there's anything I've learned from our little spat over Egyptian religion, it's that arguing with you is pretty much useless, you only hear what you want to anyway <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you could do your own apologetics then this comment wouldn't even be needed. Let alone all of your work with the "egyptian" religion was almost as bad as some of avengerx's retorts to various topics. You failed in every endeavor to prove they are completely seperate entities.
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Metalcat, it's 'Thou shalt not murder.' <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Of course, after all its ok to kill someone but murdering them is "bad". I especially like how after thousands of years suddenly it is changed to "murder" and not "kill" I quote from a apologetic site. <!--QuoteBegin-http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/ten.htm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/ten.htm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This was a bad translation, the word should be murder and not kill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I especially love how the transltors have made this error for so long, yet anyone who could glance at some of the similar writtings from that time period and compare the two words it would be quite obvious, but then again kill in hebrew means quite a few things... <!--QuoteBegin-Strongs Lexicon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Strongs Lexicon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Kill 7523 ratsach (raw-tsakh'); a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), <b>especially to murder [amended as of 1990] </b>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cyndane, "Doesn't refer to homosexual behavior?" Are you daft, woman? What do you propose it does mean? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well legionaired if you had bothered to actually read the bisexuality thread and that disgusting display by comrade skulk you would know that there is not an ancient greek nor hebrew word for homosexuality. I'll let it rest that you missed that entire conversation for some reason or another.
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I suppose an enternity of unenlightenment doesn't count, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Considering they do not say "KILL THE INFIDELS" yeah I could live with a enternity of "unenlightenment." You know what buddists and janists are called? They are called pacifists, that means they are peaceful, which means they have no law that says "kill those who don't follow this religion."
@Snidely: I wasn't saying the majority of people still activelly follow such horrible commands, however that doesn't mean that their "holy" text doesn't state as such. There are quite a few examples in various texts that to state to kill the "infidels". Not just in the bible, givingtree wanted examples, I gave them.
As I have stated before, almost all religions have some sort of a "punishment" for not following their religion, most of them want you to kill the people that don't, there are a few that do not, as stated before, buddism and jainism come to mind off the top of my head. Lakota are very similar to being pacifists.. but not quite to the extreme as some buddist monks.
cyndane i believe you missed my post.. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I didn't miss your post, but there is nothing wrong with believing in something higher then yourself. People do it all the time, some believe in the government o the country the live in, some people believe they are destined for better things in another life, some people believe in a god/gods/goddesses/etc.
That does NOT make them stupid in any way shape for form. Now, if they don't know enough about their own faith to make arguements for it, let alone the semantics involved with any religion, then they are simply ignorant(of how certain aspects work), and not stupid.
*edit* You are being more irrational then some of the others on here, but not quite as bad as there has been before.
This is what causes strife in nations, when the people of said nation fight about what is based soley on faith and nothing more. There is no more evidence for any religion then any other.
Metalcat, if anything you need to learn more about what you so you obiviously don't understand. Easiest way to do that is go to the library and pick up a few of the "holy" books. Give them an honest read through, if you don't understand something or a particular passage, you are more then welcome to msg me, or anyone else in your area for help. I won't claim that all the books are a quick and easy read, if I did that would be purely based on ignorance, these "holy" books are hard to read, especially when the translators have some political agenda behind their translations.
That is why there are lots of resources for referencing said book.
I had a long rant for givingtree, but I'll just assume he will take the same advice I gave metalcat.
In the end, if you wish to believe in something higher then you, give all religions a chance and pick one that suits your needs, you more the likely won't be going to a hell for choosing something that follows your own thoughts anymore then if you were to not choose something at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+May 25 2005, 12:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ May 25 2005, 12:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> your point is? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You said this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And religion just makes this even worse, becourse they are all about violence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 25 2005, 12:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 25 2005, 12:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I didn't miss your post, but there is nothing wrong with believing in something higher then yourself. People do it all the time, some believe in the government o the country the live in, some people believe they are destined for better things in another life, some people believe in a god/gods/goddesses/etc.
That does NOT make them stupid in any way shape for form. Now, if they don't know enough about their own faith to make arguements for it, let alone the semantics involved with any religion, then they are simply ignorant(of how certain aspects work), and not stupid.
*edit* You are being more irrational then some of the others on here, but not quite as bad as there has been before.
This is what causes strife in nations, when the people of said nation fight about what is based soley on faith and nothing more. There is no more evidence for any religion then any other.
Metalcat, if anything you need to learn more about what you so you obiviously don't understand. Easiest way to do that is go to the library and pick up a few of the "holy" books. Give them an honest read through, if you don't understand something or a particular passage, you are more then welcome to msg me, or anyone else in your area for help. I won't claim that all the books are a quick and easy read, if I did that would be purely based on ignorance, these "holy" books are hard to read, especially when the translators have some political agenda behind their translations.
That is why there are lots of resources for referencing said book.
I had a long rant for givingtree, but I'll just assume he will take the same advice I gave metalcat.
In the end, if you wish to believe in something higher then you, give all religions a chance and pick one that suits your needs, you more the likely won't be going to a hell for choosing something that follows your own thoughts anymore then if you were to not choose something at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> what do i not understand?
That overzealious people cant see above what others have told them?
this was not to knock you down, im talking about those that believe in what they have been learned so much that they will kill people because of it
Do not assume I mean it as such, you don't understand why people believe in things that are greater then themselves and as such you find it difficult to see why.
Take the said advice above and read some of the books, heck I'll even help you out.
<a href='http://www.biblegateway.com' target='_blank'> (Lots of translations of the bible) </a> <a href='http://www.bhagavad-gita.org' target='_blank'> (Hindu holy book, the Vedas are somewhat hard to find a reliable translation online.) </a> <a href='http://www.quran.org.uk' target='_blank'> (Muslim holy book) </a> <a href='http://www.new-life.net/talmud.htm' target='_blank'> (Jewish holy books) </a>
*edited* fixed the links so they all work now. Silly forums.*
and Cyndane, you shall not teach me, just because you have been manipulated by some stupid books doesnt mean thats whats in them is true.
also about religion, im a protestant and im confirmed? dont knopw the english thing for this, but its saying yes that you believe in god. Many protestant dont really believe in what they say yes to and i will admit im one of them. Also you say getting a religion that fits me? Like its something, hey look im a hindu because they rox!
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 25 2005, 12:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 25 2005, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are NOT stupid metalcat.
Do not assume I mean it as such, you don't understand why people believe in things that are greater then themselves and as such you find it difficult to see why.
Take the said advice above and read some of the books, heck I'll even help you out.
<a href='http://www.biblegateway.com' target='_blank'> (Lots of translations of the bible) </a> <a href='http://www.bhagavad-gita.org' target='_blank'> (Hindu holy book, the Vedas are somewhat hard to find a reliable translation online.) </a> <a href='http://www.quran.org.uk' target='_blank'> (Muslim holy book) </a> <a href='http://www.new-life.net/talmud.htm' target='_blank'> (Jewish holy books) </a>
*edited* fixed the links so they all work now. Silly forums.* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hehe we keep getting editing us self...
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+May 25 2005, 11:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ May 25 2005, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and Cyndane, you shall not teach me, just because you have been manipulated by some stupid books doesnt mean thats whats in them is true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am going to leave the above statement as it is, if you wish to think I am pushing any religion on you, that is so silly you really haven't been reading anything I have been typing for you. I don't plan to teach you anything, I said if you had questions reguarding certain holy books I would be more then happy to assist you with what they mean, most of them are not in layman's (average person) terms.
<!--QuoteBegin-metalcat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (metalcat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also about religion, im a protestant and im confirmed? dont knopw the english thing for this, but its saying yes that you believe in god. Many protestant dont really believe in what they say yes to and i will admit im one of them. Also you say getting a religion that fits me? Like its something, hey look im a hindu because they rox! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You should follow a religion that fits your moral beliefs, whether that be hindu, christianity (various sects thereof), buddism, janish, lakota, humanitarism, even satanism (Not to be confused with the stereotypical one).
If your religion does not fit your beliefs, why are you part of said religion. That makes no sense. Basically, what you are saying is you were forced into being confirmed as protestant, yet you have no idea what that means?
I would go and look up on what exactly protestants stand for then, if it were me. That is the simpliest way to understand if their beliefs coninside with your own. *edit found one of the possible sites for you* <a href='http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_divi.htm' target='_blank'>Protestant compared to other sects of christianity</a>
well im part of the religion because its part of my culture, its part of my culture to name my child in the church, it spart of my culture to get married in the chuch, that must be the only reason, also because i dont really care about religion so i dont really care about weather or not im christian
*Edit* i know this word culture may be strange in america with so many relgions and diffrent traditions
that protestant compared to other christianity is the stupidest homepage i have ever seen, its knows nothing about today and must have been made in 1500-1800
like that protestants believe that catholics not are christians and that protestants dont like homosexsuals or aborting which cleary is your own personal opinion
its just... stupid
i have never heard a protestant talking about a sin
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 25 2005, 01:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 25 2005, 01:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hold on a moment.. you didn't know that protestant meant you were christian?
Where are you from? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WTH are you talking about?
<!--QuoteBegin-Metalcat+May 25 2005, 12:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Metalcat @ May 25 2005, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> that protestant compared to other christianity is the stupidest homepage i have ever seen, its knows nothing about today and must have been made in 1500-1800
like that protestants believe that catholics not are christians and that protestants dont like homosexsuals or aborting which cleary is your own personal opinion
its just... stupid
i have never heard a protestant talking about a sin <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You didn't know that protestants are christians...
Which is why I asked where you are from.
*edit* The religious tolerance link I used was quite good in being quite through with all of the possible protestant viewpoints.. since you seem to think it is utter bullocks (to quote ageri), here is one that lists it in pretty simple format.
<a href='http://www.gasi.org/diversity/religion/protestant.htm' target='_blank'>Protestant beliefs</a> <!--QuoteBegin-Above article+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Above article)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Many materials lump all Protestant beliefs together. There is wide variation in Protestant beliefs from strict dogmas to liberal beliefs. The religious groups selected here are all groups who provide and own skilled nursing facilities and convalescent centers, and are therefore more involved in healthcare issues than other religions may be. .....The term Protestant refers to the historical religious origins with the Catholic churches. Early disagreements about doctrine caused protests which split the church into Catholic and Protestant (those protested) groups. Many of those groups have split further, often based on interpretation of Biblical scriptures or doctrines, accepted roles of men and women, or issues related to women as clergy. Some groups have names that appear to describe geographic regions (e.g. Southern Baptist) but the descriptor (southern) refers to the region where the church was founded and its churches are located throughout the world. The place of worship is usually called a church. The religious leaders are called clergy, pastor or father, depending upon the organization. Clergy marry. Some churches belong to national associations of the religious group who influences the governance of the church. Others are independent. .....Most celebrate Sunday as the primary religious day of week, or Sabbath, on which services are held. Seventh Day Adventist celebrate Sabbath on Saturday, and some traditionally Sunday churches also hold Saturday evening services. .....Beliefs focus around the Old and New Testaments of the Bible as sacred writings, and around the teaching of Jesus Christ. Most Protestant churches believe in the Holy Trinity: God, the Father (also referred to as Maker); Christ (who is considered to be both man and God, as in Biblical reference to 'the word became flesh and dwelt among us'; and the Holy Spirit (also referred to as the Holy Ghost). Prayers may be directed to one or all of the Holy Trinity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Which was last updated in 2003... I'd say that is quite a bit ahead of what you claim it is. In addition the site on religioustolerance.org was upated last in 2004.. again way before you claim it to be (1500-1800s) :-)
while this is about protestants its not what protestants are.
Because in Denmark its called a frikken priest, and it may explain the background of protestants but it doesnt explain their religous tendencies today.
*edit* The thing you have there is just like a documentary about animals, in this case 50% of it is true, i dont have any speacial holy days (sunday? WTH?) and yes we believe in the bible (or atleast the religion do)
That page is quite the opposite of stupid, but you told me you have never heard of a protestant speaking of sin.
I'm sorry but you are quite throughly confusing even me.
Protestant = Christianity, therefore the basic beliefs that christians follow apply to protestants as well.. Including but not limited to sin, prayer, worship, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-Cyndane+May 25 2005, 02:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyndane @ May 25 2005, 02:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That page is quite the opposite of stupid, but you told me you have never heard of a protestant speaking of sin.
I'm sorry but you are quite throughly confusing even me.
Protestant = Christianity, therefore the basic beliefs that christians follow apply to protestants as well.. Including but not limited to sin, prayer, worship, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The thing you have there is just like a documentary about animals, in this case 50% of it is true, i dont have any speacial holy days (sunday? WTH?) and yes we believe in the bible (or atleast the religion do)
Comments
~ DarkATi "
You put it perfectly
Please show me FROM the bible where it specifically EVER says to kill who hasn't joined him. If I remember correctly it says thou shalt not kill.
If you want to bring up things like the crusades, that wasn't gods will nor is it in the bible. It was a huge misinterpitation and also the catholic churches doing. You can't base god on the mistakes and actions from PEOPLE who are flawed, but goto the source which is the bible.
Like I said thou shall not kill, and jesus said to love your enemies, even when they whipped and beat him he didn't curse, he didn't send legions of angels down to kill them no what did he do? He PRAYED for them and asked the father to forgive them for what they do. He also WILLINGLY came down to earth to show and prove that he loved us. He didn't just say oh I love you nick! no he came down in the flesh knowing he would be hated, spit on, dispised, killed, its beyond words how beautiful and loving that is.
~ DarkATi "
You put it perfectly <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole purpose of the site you posted is that science can lead to God. It's a proponent of Intelligent Design.
Regardless, I can't accept something divine that is neither proven nor disproven.
God stands still; science moves forward. Until there is proper, recreatable evidence of God (which is hard to imagine happening), God and science will be separate.
<!--QuoteBegin-thegivingtree+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (thegivingtree)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Please show me FROM the bible where it specifically EVER says to kill who hasn't joined him. If I remember correctly it says thou shalt not kill.
If you want to bring up things like the crusades, that wasn't gods will nor is it in the bible. It was a huge misinterpitation and also the catholic churches doing. You can't base god on the mistakes and actions from PEOPLE who are flawed, but goto the source which is the bible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually giving tree it mentions killing people quite a bit, for silly reasons, in addition but not limited to not following god.
<!--QuoteBegin-bible+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bible)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB) (Bad translations, it is not reflecting homosexual behavior.)
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
<b>
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
</b>
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
<b>
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
</b>
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
<b> 1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
</b>
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)
2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT) (Another horrible translation)
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-thegivingtree+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (thegivingtree)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Like I said thou shall not kill, and jesus said to love your enemies, even when they whipped and beat him he didn't curse, he didn't send legions of angels down to kill them no what did he do? He PRAYED for them and asked the father to forgive them for what they do. He also WILLINGLY came down to earth to show and prove that he loved us. He didn't just say oh I love you nick! no he came down in the flesh knowing he would be hated, spit on, dispised, killed, its beyond words how beautiful and loving that is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have yet to see that jesus is real, there is no evidence for it as of the moment. In fact, I have ventured so far to say he is a myth much like all the other god-men. The fact your bible/quaran/toran is translated so horribly by such idiotic people(read: political agendas), just proves my point.
<!--QuoteBegin-JesusSeminar+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JesusSeminar)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
During the second phase of the Jesus Seminar, which lasted from 1991 to 1996, the Fellows examined 387 reports of 176 events, in most of which Jesus is the principal actor, although occasionally John the Baptist, Simon Peter, or Judas is featured. Of the 176 events, only ten were given a red rating (red indicates that the Fellows had a relatively high level of confidence that the event actually took place). An additional nineteen were colored pink (pink suggests that the event probably occurred). The combined number of red and pink events (29) amounts to 16% of the total (176). That is slightly lower than the 18% of the sayings—primarily parables and aphorisms—assigned to the red and pink categories in The Five Gospels.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really do not want to get into a debate about whether not not jesus lived, because you can't prove one way or the other. Not to mention, your orginal link was a waste of time, just like the origins in genesis (which I stated earlier) or the tektonics (which legionaired has posted before). They have absolutely NO basis in science at all. None, zip, zero, zlich.
DarkATi, don't bother sporting "a case for christ" as a reference book, that was just as bad as the "Sixteen cruxified saviors of the world" for bias.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could have sworn you used it as a defense to something I have posted earlier, it was probably pepe or legionaired, then my apologies. :-)
If too much religion makes you dumb, I have to be the dumbest person on this planet, for I have studied darn near every single religion available that was considered a theological society. The bible clearly does not teach tolerance or love, but the same can be said for various other religious works, Vedas, Bravaghad-Gita, Qua'ran, Toran.
There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did I "sport" a case for christ? I haven't even read that book... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I could have sworn you used it as a defense to something I have posted earlier, it was probably pepe or legionaired, then my apologies. :-) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please. I can do my own apologetics, thank you.
I'd go through a point by point on the above with you, but if there's anything I've learned from our little spat over Egyptian religion, it's that arguing with you is pretty much useless, you only hear what you want to anyway.
Metalcat, it's 'Thou shalt not murder.'
Cyndane, "Doesn't refer to homosexual behavior?" Are you daft, woman? What do you propose it <b>does</b> mean?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose an enternity of unenlightenment doesn't count, right?
only like buddhism and hinduism aint about violence <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's definately violence in religious texts, but it's not the core. If it was, then the violence wouldn't have been filtered out over time. And it has been, more or less.
No-one killed me in God's name while I was at a CoE school, anyway. (:
If too much religion makes you dumb, I have to be the dumbest person on this planet, for I have studied darn near every single religion available that was considered a theological society. The bible clearly does not teach tolerance or love, but the same can be said for various other religious works, Vedas, Bravaghad-Gita, Qua'ran, Toran.
There is always some sort of punishment for not following a certain religion, the only TWO that do not are; buddism, and jainism. If you know what either actually says (Buddah, and Vardhamana) then you would agree. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
im not saying stutying or knowing about them makes you dumb, im saying believing in them makes you dumb, believe too hard in a religion and you will be blind to reality
only like buddhism and hinduism aint about violence <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's definately violence in religious texts, but it's not the core. If it was, then the violence wouldn't have been filtered out over time. And it has been, more or less.
No-one killed me in God's name while I was at a CoE school, anyway. (: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
your point is?
Please. I can do my own apologetics, thank you.
I'd go through a point by point on the above with you, but if there's anything I've learned from our little spat over Egyptian religion, it's that arguing with you is pretty much useless, you only hear what you want to anyway
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you could do your own apologetics then this comment wouldn't even be needed.
Let alone all of your work with the "egyptian" religion was almost as bad as some of avengerx's retorts to various topics. You failed in every endeavor to prove they are completely seperate entities.
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Metalcat, it's 'Thou shalt not murder.'
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, after all its ok to kill someone but murdering them is "bad".
I especially like how after thousands of years suddenly it is changed to "murder" and not "kill" I quote from a apologetic site.
<!--QuoteBegin-http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/ten.htm+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/ten.htm)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
This was a bad translation, the word should be murder and not kill.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I especially love how the transltors have made this error for so long, yet anyone who could glance at some of the similar writtings from that time period and compare the two words it would be quite obvious, but then again kill in hebrew means quite a few things...
<!--QuoteBegin-Strongs Lexicon+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Strongs Lexicon)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Kill 7523 ratsach (raw-tsakh'); a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. kill (a human being), <b>especially to murder [amended as of 1990] </b>.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Cyndane, "Doesn't refer to homosexual behavior?" Are you daft, woman? What do you propose it does mean?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well legionaired if you had bothered to actually read the bisexuality thread and that disgusting display by comrade skulk you would know that there is not an ancient greek nor hebrew word for homosexuality. I'll let it rest that you missed that entire conversation for some reason or another.
<!--QuoteBegin-legionaired+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (legionaired)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I suppose an enternity of unenlightenment doesn't count, right?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Considering they do not say "KILL THE INFIDELS" yeah I could live with a enternity of "unenlightenment." You know what buddists and janists are called? They are called pacifists, that means they are peaceful, which means they have no law that says "kill those who don't follow this religion."
@Snidely: I wasn't saying the majority of people still activelly follow such horrible commands, however that doesn't mean that their "holy" text doesn't state as such. There are quite a few examples in various texts that to state to kill the "infidels". Not just in the bible, givingtree wanted examples, I gave them.
As I have stated before, almost all religions have some sort of a "punishment" for not following their religion, most of them want you to kill the people that don't, there are a few that do not, as stated before, buddism and jainism come to mind off the top of my head. Lakota are very similar to being pacifists.. but not quite to the extreme as some buddist monks.
That does NOT make them stupid in any way shape for form. Now, if they don't know enough about their own faith to make arguements for it, let alone the semantics involved with any religion, then they are simply ignorant(of how certain aspects work), and not stupid.
*edit*
You are being more irrational then some of the others on here, but not quite as bad as there has been before.
This is what causes strife in nations, when the people of said nation fight about what is based soley on faith and nothing more. There is no more evidence for any religion then any other.
Metalcat, if anything you need to learn more about what you so you obiviously don't understand. Easiest way to do that is go to the library and pick up a few of the "holy" books. Give them an honest read through, if you don't understand something or a particular passage, you are more then welcome to msg me, or anyone else in your area for help. I won't claim that all the books are a quick and easy read, if I did that would be purely based on ignorance, these "holy" books are hard to read, especially when the translators have some political agenda behind their translations.
That is why there are lots of resources for referencing said book.
I had a long rant for givingtree, but I'll just assume he will take the same advice I gave metalcat.
In the end, if you wish to believe in something higher then you, give all religions a chance and pick one that suits your needs, you more the likely won't be going to a hell for choosing something that follows your own thoughts anymore then if you were to not choose something at all.
You said this:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And religion just makes this even worse, becourse they are all about violence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagreed, and posted so.
That does NOT make them stupid in any way shape for form. Now, if they don't know enough about their own faith to make arguements for it, let alone the semantics involved with any religion, then they are simply ignorant(of how certain aspects work), and not stupid.
*edit*
You are being more irrational then some of the others on here, but not quite as bad as there has been before.
This is what causes strife in nations, when the people of said nation fight about what is based soley on faith and nothing more. There is no more evidence for any religion then any other.
Metalcat, if anything you need to learn more about what you so you obiviously don't understand. Easiest way to do that is go to the library and pick up a few of the "holy" books. Give them an honest read through, if you don't understand something or a particular passage, you are more then welcome to msg me, or anyone else in your area for help. I won't claim that all the books are a quick and easy read, if I did that would be purely based on ignorance, these "holy" books are hard to read, especially when the translators have some political agenda behind their translations.
That is why there are lots of resources for referencing said book.
I had a long rant for givingtree, but I'll just assume he will take the same advice I gave metalcat.
In the end, if you wish to believe in something higher then you, give all religions a chance and pick one that suits your needs, you more the likely won't be going to a hell for choosing something that follows your own thoughts anymore then if you were to not choose something at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what do i not understand?
That overzealious people cant see above what others have told them?
this was not to knock you down, im talking about those that believe in what they have been learned so much that they will kill people because of it
Do not assume I mean it as such, you don't understand why people believe in things that are greater then themselves and as such you find it difficult to see why.
Take the said advice above and read some of the books, heck I'll even help you out.
<a href='http://www.biblegateway.com' target='_blank'> (Lots of translations of the bible) </a>
<a href='http://www.bhagavad-gita.org' target='_blank'> (Hindu holy book, the Vedas are somewhat hard to find a reliable translation online.) </a>
<a href='http://www.quran.org.uk' target='_blank'> (Muslim holy book) </a>
<a href='http://www.new-life.net/talmud.htm' target='_blank'> (Jewish holy books) </a>
*edited* fixed the links so they all work now. Silly forums.*
also about religion, im a protestant and im confirmed? dont knopw the english thing for this, but its saying yes that you believe in god. Many protestant dont really believe in what they say yes to and i will admit im one of them. Also you say getting a religion that fits me? Like its something, hey look im a hindu because they rox!
... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Do not assume I mean it as such, you don't understand why people believe in things that are greater then themselves and as such you find it difficult to see why.
Take the said advice above and read some of the books, heck I'll even help you out.
<a href='http://www.biblegateway.com' target='_blank'> (Lots of translations of the bible) </a>
<a href='http://www.bhagavad-gita.org' target='_blank'> (Hindu holy book, the Vedas are somewhat hard to find a reliable translation online.) </a>
<a href='http://www.quran.org.uk' target='_blank'> (Muslim holy book) </a>
<a href='http://www.new-life.net/talmud.htm' target='_blank'> (Jewish holy books) </a>
*edited* fixed the links so they all work now. Silly forums.* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hehe we keep getting editing us self...
I am going to leave the above statement as it is, if you wish to think I am pushing any religion on you, that is so silly you really haven't been reading anything I have been typing for you. I don't plan to teach you anything, I said if you had questions reguarding certain holy books I would be more then happy to assist you with what they mean, most of them are not in layman's (average person) terms.
<!--QuoteBegin-metalcat+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (metalcat)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
also about religion, im a protestant and im confirmed? dont knopw the english thing for this, but its saying yes that you believe in god. Many protestant dont really believe in what they say yes to and i will admit im one of them. Also you say getting a religion that fits me? Like its something, hey look im a hindu because they rox!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should follow a religion that fits your moral beliefs, whether that be hindu, christianity (various sects thereof), buddism, janish, lakota, humanitarism, even satanism (Not to be confused with the stereotypical one).
If your religion does not fit your beliefs, why are you part of said religion. That makes no sense. Basically, what you are saying is you were forced into being confirmed as protestant, yet you have no idea what that means?
I would go and look up on what exactly protestants stand for then, if it were me. That is the simpliest way to understand if their beliefs coninside with your own.
*edit found one of the possible sites for you*
<a href='http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_divi.htm' target='_blank'>Protestant compared to other sects of christianity</a>
*Edit* i know this word culture may be strange in america with so many relgions and diffrent traditions
like that protestants believe that catholics not are christians and that protestants dont like homosexsuals or aborting which cleary is your own personal opinion
its just... stupid
i have never heard a protestant talking about a sin
Where are you from?
Where are you from? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH are you talking about?
please quote
like that protestants believe that catholics not are christians and that protestants dont like homosexsuals or aborting which cleary is your own personal opinion
its just... stupid
i have never heard a protestant talking about a sin <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You didn't know that protestants are christians...
Which is why I asked where you are from.
*edit* The religious tolerance link I used was quite good in being quite through with all of the possible protestant viewpoints.. since you seem to think it is utter bullocks (to quote ageri), here is one that lists it in pretty simple format.
<a href='http://www.gasi.org/diversity/religion/protestant.htm' target='_blank'>Protestant beliefs</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-Above article+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Above article)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Many materials lump all Protestant beliefs together. There is wide variation in Protestant beliefs from strict dogmas to liberal beliefs. The religious groups selected here are all groups who provide and own skilled nursing facilities and convalescent centers, and are therefore more involved in healthcare issues than other religions may be.
.....The term Protestant refers to the historical religious origins with the Catholic churches. Early disagreements about doctrine caused protests which split the church into Catholic and Protestant (those protested) groups. Many of those groups have split further, often based on interpretation of Biblical scriptures or doctrines, accepted roles of men and women, or issues related to women as clergy. Some groups have names that appear to describe geographic regions (e.g. Southern Baptist) but the descriptor (southern) refers to the region where the church was founded and its churches are located throughout the world. The place of worship is usually called a church. The religious leaders are called clergy, pastor or father, depending upon the organization. Clergy marry. Some churches belong to national associations of the religious group who influences the governance of the church. Others are independent.
.....Most celebrate Sunday as the primary religious day of week, or Sabbath, on which services are held. Seventh Day Adventist celebrate Sabbath on Saturday, and some traditionally Sunday churches also hold Saturday evening services.
.....Beliefs focus around the Old and New Testaments of the Bible as sacred writings, and around the teaching of Jesus Christ. Most Protestant churches believe in the Holy Trinity: God, the Father (also referred to as Maker); Christ (who is considered to be both man and God, as in Biblical reference to 'the word became flesh and dwelt among us'; and the Holy Spirit (also referred to as the Holy Ghost). Prayers may be directed to one or all of the Holy Trinity.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which was last updated in 2003... I'd say that is quite a bit ahead of what you claim it is. In addition the site on religioustolerance.org was upated last in 2004.. again way before you claim it to be (1500-1800s) :-)
while this is about protestants its not what protestants are.
Because in Denmark its called a frikken priest, and it may explain the background of protestants but it doesnt explain their religous tendencies today.
*edit*
The thing you have there is just like a documentary about animals, in this case 50% of it is true, i dont have any speacial holy days (sunday? WTH?) and yes we believe in the bible (or atleast the religion do)
I'm sorry but you are quite throughly confusing even me.
Protestant = Christianity, therefore the basic beliefs that christians follow apply to protestants as well.. Including but not limited to sin, prayer, worship, etc.
I'm sorry but you are quite throughly confusing even me.
Protestant = Christianity, therefore the basic beliefs that christians follow apply to protestants as well.. Including but not limited to sin, prayer, worship, etc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing you have there is just like a documentary about animals, in this case 50% of it is true, i dont have any speacial holy days (sunday? WTH?) and yes we believe in the bible (or atleast the religion do)