<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want a classic server, pay for one. You can mock servers like nsarmslab all you like, but they're usually filled to capacity. Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! This is human trash. Internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.
32 man Combat games are truly retarded, /menu or not.
Onos, 3rd Hive abilities, GLs, and other stuff I can't remember right now totally ruin any serious attempt at playing Combat... I'm amazed they haven't been removed yet.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Holy crap. You really don't see the point. I should not HAVE to<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct. There should be an infinite amount of servers with a maximum spread of server qualities and variables so everyone would be able to play exactly the way they want to under the exact circumstances. Yet, this is not the case, so you will need to adapt either by making your own server with the rules you wish, or quit crabbing about how no one ELSE is doing it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You didn't see my point earlier when I said people are getting the entire game in a few rounds of combat and leaving because they feel like anything else is stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole game in a few rounds of combat? Im assuming you mean all 17 basic abilities, right? Theres really not that much there in the first place. In normal combat, its easier to experience the whole game in a few rounds than it is with /menu or /buildmenu.
You seem to only be focusing on the increased levels. Only at level 18 is when you can have all the abilities, and its rare a game will last that long without /menu. I know that most of the time I am at the top of the marine chart, and its pretty uncommon Ill get to level 18 either before time runs out, or some team wins.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How long have you been playing this game? A few months? Since 3.0 came out? Whopdee. I have seen this game transgress from the very begining. Things change yes, things may become better or take a toll for the worse. But this is absolute the worst.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/sigh.
Look at when I registered this name, dolt. Actually, Ive been coming to this board since Dec 02, my original name being Insane Homeless Man, but I deleted that account so I could create a new one with the name I was then using. So, in reality, I havnt been here much shorter a time than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not speculation, its not generalized. Its a known fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread #1: Refers to standard combat, not what we are talking about.
Thread #2: Refers to standard combat in a completely different context, not what we are talking about
Thread #3: Commy asking for a server with no specifications as to the ruleset. Absolutely nothing to do with our topic.
Thread #4: Lots of opinians on this thread, several more animated folk screaming about how horrid the combat mods are. Ever notice its the exact same people who are always complaining about it, though? Small amounts of people with large amounts of posting about the same thing gives the illusion that what they say is felt by a majority. Again, servers would not be filled to capacity playing combats mods if they were not popular and everyone hated them.
Thread #5: Again, absoluting nothing to do with combat. This thread is a generalization of all of the v3 final.
Thread #6: Fangs whining like a baby about how he hates CO, and circumstantial evidance that CO is 5 to 8 times as popular as NS.
Sky completely sums it all up nicely: Also, whining about this particular problem isn't going to do anything, except of course **** people off. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Co isn't going anywhere; stop complaining and find a server you like</span>. 22 isn't enough for you?
Overall UC, those 6 threads did practically nothing to support your claim that modded CO is the worst thing to happen to NS, ever. Only threads four and six (the only actually relevant threads) proved was that the more a person hates something the louder they cry about it, but we all knew that already. A few people despise MCO, but those few are a far cry from the majority.
I do realize you are stuck in a perpetual catch-22. You cant find a server you like, so need to make one. You cant make one, so you need to find one you like. I think you realize this aswell, and there is nothing you can really do to change it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Electrical Tape+Jun 10 2005, 02:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Electrical Tape @ Jun 10 2005, 02:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Holy crap. You really don't see the point. I should not HAVE to<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct. There should be an infinite amount of servers with a maximum spread of server qualities and variables so everyone would be able to play exactly the way they want to under the exact circumstances. Yet, this is not the case, so you will need to adapt either by making your own server with the rules you wish, or quit crabbing about how no one ELSE is doing it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You didn't see my point earlier when I said people are getting the entire game in a few rounds of combat and leaving because they feel like anything else is stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole game in a few rounds of combat? Im assuming you mean all 17 basic abilities, right? Theres really not that much there in the first place. In normal combat, its easier to experience the whole game in a few rounds than it is with /menu or /buildmenu.
You seem to only be focusing on the increased levels. Only at level 18 is when you can have all the abilities, and its rare a game will last that long without /menu. I know that most of the time I am at the top of the marine chart, and its pretty uncommon Ill get to level 18 either before time runs out, or some team wins.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How long have you been playing this game? A few months? Since 3.0 came out? Whopdee. I have seen this game transgress from the very begining. Things change yes, things may become better or take a toll for the worse. But this is absolute the worst.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/sigh.
Look at when I registered this name, dolt. Actually, Ive been coming to this board since Dec 02, my original name being Insane Homeless Man, but I deleted that account so I could create a new one with the name I was then using. So, in reality, I havnt been here much shorter a time than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not speculation, its not generalized. Its a known fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread #1: Refers to standard combat, not what we are talking about.
Thread #2: Refers to standard combat in a completely different context, not what we are talking about
Thread #3: Commy asking for a server with no specifications as to the ruleset. Absolutely nothing to do with our topic.
Thread #4: Lots of opinians on this thread, several more animated folk screaming about how horrid the combat mods are. Ever notice its the exact same people who are always complaining about it, though? Small amounts of people with large amounts of posting about the same thing gives the illusion that what they say is felt by a majority. Again, servers would not be filled to capacity playing combats mods if they were not popular and everyone hated them.
Thread #5: Again, absoluting nothing to do with combat. This thread is a generalization of all of the v3 final.
Thread #6: Fangs whining like a baby about how he hates CO, and circumstantial evidance that CO is 5 to 8 times as popular as NS.
Sky completely sums it all up nicely: Also, whining about this particular problem isn't going to do anything, except of course **** people off. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Co isn't going anywhere; stop complaining and find a server you like</span>. 22 isn't enough for you?
Overall UC, those 6 threads did practically nothing to support your claim that modded CO is the worst thing to happen to NS, ever. Only threads four and six (the only actually relevant threads) proved was that the more a person hates something the louder they cry about it, but we all knew that already. A few people despise MCO, but those few are a far cry from the majority.
I do realize you are stuck in a perpetual catch-22. You cant find a server you like, so need to make one. You cant make one, so you need to find one you like. I think you realize this aswell, and there is nothing you can really do to change it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think a ritualistic burning at the stake would make me feel alot better, you being the guest of honor
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat was a feeling we had in NS, when we got into that battlegroup of Heavies and walked loudly down the echoeing halls of hera when NS had athmosphere. We would feel like we're something important, in a futuristic military. That athmosphere is gone<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed it is. It left, hmm, or rather, ran away, when 2.0 was released.
Dont expect me to sift through 7 pages and compare the numbers of people who like combat vs the ones who dont. You do that and post your results to further your point.
Although, even if in that single thread there is a large majority of people who dislike MCO, for how many of those people who posted they didnt like it, did not post but do like it? There is always a disproportionate number of people who post whines in comparison to praises.
Yeah Elec. CO is more complex than classic.....*dies on floor from laughter*
Yeah it seems with every week that goes by i see less classic AND co. I don't even play CO anymore the last time i did i saw some kind of build menu thing which was just about the dumbest thing i've seen in a game yet and the funny thing is people play that ****...it's almost like they have never seen classic it's so flipping stupid.... Oh and now i hear there's some kinda warcraft mod now? I mean WTH is going on?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey Electrical Tape you seem to like arguing go here<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when Im having a bout of insomnia, I do like arguing to pass the time.
And posting that pic isnt really as cool as you think. Making fun of people with mental handicaps speaks volumes about your character.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How many people are actually reading Electrical tapes's screeds?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To long, eh? I guess Ill shorten them up in the future.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you don't argue with him he wont be an issue<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Simply accept the fact that I am right, and we wont need to argue anymore
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
Whether you like it or not, there is a reason why modded Combat servers are so much more populated than classic NS servers. People like the gameplay. These people are bottom of the NS player hierarchy, one might say, but true or not, that is irrelevant. The server operators are giving these people what they want, and you cannot blame them for that.
Complaining to the developers or server operators about the proportion of modded servers to unmodded ones is pointless. The server operators are merely serving their playerbase, and the developers cannot simply remove something that is so popular. Not without serious consequences, at least.
Instead of complaining, we could be far more productive by investigating why such modded servers are so popular, so that perhaps a solution could be reached. A number of insightful posts regarding this have already been made in this thread, but they've unfortunately been drowned out by all the noise.
I also agree that NS in general is being dumbed down. Thank god for NSArmslab Classic (and no its not a plug... I'm just mentioning it because its practically the last frontier when it comes to classic).
Realisticly, here's our options:
- Convince the developers to make NS Classic teamplay "easier", thus more fun for the average person who is not part of a small, tight community or clan.
- Start a new classic only server.
The problem with #1 is the devs keep changing or intentionally being unspecific as to their goals... so we'll never really know if the devs truely want 'Classic NS' to reign or if they simply want to build the biggest playerbase possible by going with the flow and conforming the game to the will of the masses (CO).
The problem with #2 is advertising. I've tried to run a (fairly large) NS Classic server but it goes empty. I've gotten it full a couple of times, sure, only after starting it up with friends. I'm sure if more people knew about a low-ping classic-only server, they'd check it out. A place to advertise NS servers would be nice.
You can't blame the modders for killing NS. They actually helped by mixing it up and keeping people interested. You have to make classic more fun and attract people back.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited June 2005
These are the issues I see that with classic NS that would turn away the most casual players:<ul><li>Not easy to learn. Many players stick with Combat because they don't understand classic NS.</li><li>Too much waiting. Going gorge and building things is not a casual player's idea of a fun time. Travel times and gestation times also contribute. Combat, on the other hand, has nonstop action.<ul><li>Simply removing or shortening these wait times would remove much of the RTS aspect of this game, so some other solution would be needed.</li></ul></li><li>Teamwork is required, but is not promoted by the game mechanics. (SentrySteve's point; read his posts on page 2 for more detail.)</li></ul>
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jun 10 2005, 03:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jun 10 2005, 03:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->These are the issues I see that with classic NS that would turn away the most casual players:<ul> </li><li>Not easy to learn. Many players stick with Combat because they don't understand classic NS. </li><li>Too much waiting. Going gorge and building things is not a casual player's idea of a fun time. Travel times and gestation times also contribute. Combat, on the other hand, has nonstop action. </li><li>Teamwork is required, but is not promoted by the game mechanics. (SentrySteve's point; read his posts on page 2 for more detail.) </li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't you get it civ?
These are good things. The steep learning curve of NS acts as a kind of filter, through which the more feeble-minded simpletons (of counter-strike ilk) do not pass.
With combat introduced, it allows the lesser people, the riff-raff, to eek their way into the community, and, as beloved devotees of NS have been saying for months, destroy it.
Good riddance to the people who don't have the patience, focus, or raw intellect to comprehend classic NS play. We don't want nor need them here.
Your argument that NS is too newb-unfriendly to succeed doesn't hold water. If there are enough people who can learn the detailed intricacies to games like Civilization III, Rise of Nations, Starcraft, and the vastly popular MMORPGS like SWG, EQ and WOW, there sure as hell are enough people who can learn the game of classic NS. These are the people we want. The fools who are attracted to combat and who have poisoned this community are not.
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited June 2005
The thing is, those other games you mention do not have steep learning curves. You could just pick them up and start playing. You do not have to "learn the detailed intricacies" to play. That's called mastering the game, and it is only done by dedicated players.
NS is much more difficult to start playing. You really have to read much of the manual to understand what's going on in the game, and a casual player isn't likely to do this. Also, because of the requirement for teamwork, an inexperienced player can't really learn things by experimentation, as he could cause his team to lose. I could go on, but I think you see my point, and I really need to sleep. This isn't about weak-minded players, and making the game easier for them. This is about casual players. This is about making the game easier to pick up and more fun to play.
This thread makes me laugh... no really it does...
Aparantly according to some there are no unmodded CO servers or NS/CO servers..... well your wrong i find quite a few.... but then i am in europe and all you seem to include in your examples are american servers.... even though you may ping at 130 or higher on europe servers there are ones which don't have any game changing plugins at all and there are quite a few....
If you think there are no un-modded servers then you are living in a dream world.
And quiting the game because you cba to find a server without plugins.. lol
gg to that guy quit because you cba to find servers... maybe perhaps the ones which aint modded are 130 ping... so what ive seen plenty of players from american/canadian soil playing on europian servers with anywhere between 130 - 200 ping and they seem to have gotten used to the ping and play quite well... so high ping is no excuse really.....
The arguement from what i have read is pointless...... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh and thank you for the compliment Curve <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 9 2005, 10:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 9 2005, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lmao, I think I hurt your little feelings, look why should I be forced to not play at all because 90% of the server admins out their run the most atrocious mods ever conceived. Im not angry they exist, Im angry its all Im able to play because there really aren't well populated stock ns/co servers out there. You're a shining example of whats wrong with this dying community<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but it’s up to you to change than. Server owners running Natural Selection servers are the backbone of the community. You don’t feel that comfortable with the current selection of servers for you? There’s a pretty easy solution. Get your own server and create an environment you and others like to play.
And btw. if there are so much players are not satisfied with the current server selection why there are so less server matching you philosophy?
Answers may be: 1. there are NOT as much players unsatisfied as you think/wish 2. the group of unsatisfied player of the current selection of servers prefer to whine but not to take actions against it 3. ?
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jun 10 2005, 04:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jun 10 2005, 04:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The thing is, those other games you mention do not have steep learning curves. You could just pick them up and start playing. You do not have to "learn the detailed intricacies" to play. That's called mastering the game, and it is only done by dedicated players.
NS is much more difficult to start playing. You really have to read much of the manual to understand what's going on in the game, and a casual player isn't likely to do this. Also, because of the requirement for teamwork, an inexperienced player can't really learn things by experimentation, as he could cause his team to lose. I could go on, but I think you see my point, and I really need to sleep. This isn't about weak-minded players, and making the game easier for them. This is about casual players. This is about making the game easier to pick up and more fun to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I get the feeling thats the same way of thinking Flayra used when he implimented combat; and look where it's gotten us.
What you're saying is valid to an extent whether I agree with it or not, but I would contend that you're overblowing the learning curve.
<b>I started playing the game the day after it came out. I never touched a manuel the entire time. Everything I learned was by trial and error and experience. Granted, the game was just released and everyone was a newb, but players still can and do learn this way. Just keep your mouth shut and don't make a spectacle out of your newbness, try to follow along, and that's really all there is to it.</b>
Combat was supposed to be the gateway for the uninitiated into the greater NS community. Instead it has overtaken it and the lower class players dominate the scene.
<!--QuoteBegin-Scylla+Jun 10 2005, 04:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Scylla @ Jun 10 2005, 04:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry but it’s up to you to change than. Server owners running Natural Selection servers are the backbone of the community. You don’t feel that comfortable with the current selection of servers for you? There’s a pretty easy solution. Get your own server and create an environment you and others like to play. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just covered this idiotic way of thinking a page ago. Typically it got drowned down in a load of useless banter. I'll reiterate until you people stop using that moronic notion (it's up to you to change, start your own server then, bla bla). In short: the community as a whole is dying because of 'you people,' and the problem is you and nothing else.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want a classic server, pay for one. You can mock servers like nsarmslab all you like, but they're usually filled to capacity. Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?</i>
The only reason it clears out servers is because most of the NS community has been tainted with combat players - a distasteful group of similar minded people who are more at home in a 24/7 de_dust server than in any NS game.
A better question is why would they impliment a game that deters entirely from the main points of Natural Selection (strategy & teamwork), and continue to foster a parasitic crowd (combat players) that is destroying the community from within?
You prepose that NS classic fans put up more NS classic servers, and this would lead to a solution? The only solution is to purify the community so that only players who like the game "the way it's supposed to be played" are left.
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! BS. You are internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The number of downloads are a very good indicator of the popularity of these plugins - the numbers speak for themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 10 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 10 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also electric don't bother typing some big fancy reply because Ill be honest here, I won't read whatever sad excuse you've mustered
The simple fact is, these stupid mods shouldn't be forced on anyone. Just because everyone else wants to play them dosen't mean I should have to also. Its impossible to seed a new server unless you have an idiotic mod on it, and I see even less servers than what sandstorm posted. Which is 2-3. Rediculous. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No one's forcing you or any other ns player to play on a modded server, no one.
@Sandstorm: I feel your list is conservative (my server didn't show on it). <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Depot+Jun 10 2005, 06:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Depot @ Jun 10 2005, 06:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Jun 10 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jun 10 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also electric don't bother typing some big fancy reply because Ill be honest here, I won't read whatever sad excuse you've mustered
The simple fact is, these stupid mods shouldn't be forced on anyone. Just because everyone else wants to play them dosen't mean I should have to also. Its impossible to seed a new server unless you have an idiotic mod on it, and I see even less servers than what sandstorm posted. Which is 2-3. Rediculous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No one's forcing you or any other ns player to play on a modded server, no one.
@Sandstorm: I feel your list is conservative (my server didn't show on it). <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The fact there ARENT any other servers except for a couple arms lab servers, and FR31NS, I'd say my choices are pretty damned limited.
<!--QuoteBegin-ubermensch+Jun 10 2005, 09:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ubermensch @ Jun 10 2005, 09:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't you get it civ?
These are good things. The steep learning curve of NS acts as a kind of filter, through which the more feeble-minded simpletons (of counter-strike ilk) do not pass. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, and because you hold down your "+use" key on an unbuilt structure you're 10x better than they are.
If you love this filter so much I hope I dont see you ever complain about the lack of NS Classic servers - because this filter is killing your favorite game.
<!--QuoteBegin-a civilian+Jun 10 2005, 04:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (a civilian @ Jun 10 2005, 04:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Whether you like it or not, there is a reason why modded Combat servers are so much more populated than classic NS servers. People like the gameplay. These people are bottom of the NS player hierarchy, one might say, but true or not, that is irrelevant. The server operators are giving these people what they want, and you cannot blame them for that.
Complaining to the developers or server operators about the proportion of modded servers to unmodded ones is pointless. The server operators are merely serving their playerbase, and the developers cannot simply remove something that is so popular. Not without serious consequences, at least.
Instead of complaining, we could be far more productive by investigating why such modded servers are so popular, so that perhaps a solution could be reached. A number of insightful posts regarding this have already been made in this thread, but they've unfortunately been drowned out by all the noise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT! Probably the most intelligent reply in this thread to date, and this from a clan player.
<b>Because a few dozen forum members consistently bash modded combat (out of the thousands of players who play it) do they really think their incessant whining is going to produce any positive results? Of course not, it's simply a never-ending drama that they won't let die. It's getting old, terribly old .... ... .. .</b>
You want Combat with no game-altering mods? Server IP in my siggy. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Yes, it's plain vanilla except for mvm.
<!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Jun 10 2005, 07:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 10 2005, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are you clanned cwag?
If so, get the clan motivated into extreme activity, then there is no reason to go on a public server.
If not try gather networks, generally have mix's starting 1 an hour, no need to go on publics ever again! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We've ended up pubbing as a clan 6-7 times because there just isn't enough NS clans around to scrim whenever the hell you want too. That's part of where this whole frigging topic comes from. Granted more active clan member would mean more scrim opportunities there still is going to be times when you can't scrim with people just because everyone isn't around.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 10 2005, 01:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 10 2005, 01:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DarkFrost+Jun 10 2005, 07:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DarkFrost @ Jun 10 2005, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Are you clanned cwag?
If so, get the clan motivated into extreme activity, then there is no reason to go on a public server.
If not try gather networks, generally have mix's starting 1 an hour, no need to go on publics ever again! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We've ended up pubbing as a clan 6-7 times because there just isn't enough NS clans around to scrim whenever the hell you want too. That's part of where this whole frigging topic comes from. Granted more active clan member would mean more scrim opportunities there still is going to be times when you can't scrim with people just because everyone isn't around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then use option 2.
Although, yea, many of them are invite only now. But thats due to the sorry state NS is in at the moment, always hope that it will pull out, and thats with only a little doubt.
Comments
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! This is human trash. Internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.
Onos, 3rd Hive abilities, GLs, and other stuff I can't remember right now totally ruin any serious attempt at playing Combat... I'm amazed they haven't been removed yet.
I should not HAVE to<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct. There should be an infinite amount of servers with a maximum spread of server qualities and variables so everyone would be able to play exactly the way they want to under the exact circumstances. Yet, this is not the case, so you will need to adapt either by making your own server with the rules you wish, or quit crabbing about how no one ELSE is doing it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You didn't see my point earlier when I said people are getting the entire game in a few rounds of combat and leaving because they feel like anything else is stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole game in a few rounds of combat? Im assuming you mean all 17 basic abilities, right? Theres really not that much there in the first place. In normal combat, its easier to experience the whole game in a few rounds than it is with /menu or /buildmenu.
You seem to only be focusing on the increased levels. Only at level 18 is when you can have all the abilities, and its rare a game will last that long without /menu. I know that most of the time I am at the top of the marine chart, and its pretty uncommon Ill get to level 18 either before time runs out, or some team wins.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How long have you been playing this game? A few months? Since 3.0 came out? Whopdee. I have seen this game transgress from the very begining. Things change yes, things may become better or take a toll for the worse. But this is absolute the worst.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/sigh.
Look at when I registered this name, dolt. Actually, Ive been coming to this board since Dec 02, my original name being Insane Homeless Man, but I deleted that account so I could create a new one with the name I was then using. So, in reality, I havnt been here much shorter a time than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not speculation, its not generalized. Its a known fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread #1: Refers to standard combat, not what we are talking about.
Thread #2: Refers to standard combat in a completely different context, not what we are talking about
Thread #3: Commy asking for a server with no specifications as to the ruleset. Absolutely nothing to do with our topic.
Thread #4: Lots of opinians on this thread, several more animated folk screaming about how horrid the combat mods are. Ever notice its the exact same people who are always complaining about it, though? Small amounts of people with large amounts of posting about the same thing gives the illusion that what they say is felt by a majority. Again, servers would not be filled to capacity playing combats mods if they were not popular and everyone hated them.
Thread #5: Again, absoluting nothing to do with combat. This thread is a generalization of all of the v3 final.
Thread #6: Fangs whining like a baby about how he hates CO, and circumstantial evidance that CO is 5 to 8 times as popular as NS.
Sky completely sums it all up nicely: Also, whining about this particular problem isn't going to do anything, except of course **** people off. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Co isn't going anywhere; stop complaining and find a server you like</span>. 22 isn't enough for you?
Overall UC, those 6 threads did practically nothing to support your claim that modded CO is the worst thing to happen to NS, ever. Only threads four and six (the only actually relevant threads) proved was that the more a person hates something the louder they cry about it, but we all knew that already. A few people despise MCO, but those few are a far cry from the majority.
I do realize you are stuck in a perpetual catch-22. You cant find a server you like, so need to make one. You cant make one, so you need to find one you like. I think you realize this aswell, and there is nothing you can really do to change it.
I should not HAVE to<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct. There should be an infinite amount of servers with a maximum spread of server qualities and variables so everyone would be able to play exactly the way they want to under the exact circumstances. Yet, this is not the case, so you will need to adapt either by making your own server with the rules you wish, or quit crabbing about how no one ELSE is doing it for you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You didn't see my point earlier when I said people are getting the entire game in a few rounds of combat and leaving because they feel like anything else is stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The whole game in a few rounds of combat? Im assuming you mean all 17 basic abilities, right? Theres really not that much there in the first place. In normal combat, its easier to experience the whole game in a few rounds than it is with /menu or /buildmenu.
You seem to only be focusing on the increased levels. Only at level 18 is when you can have all the abilities, and its rare a game will last that long without /menu. I know that most of the time I am at the top of the marine chart, and its pretty uncommon Ill get to level 18 either before time runs out, or some team wins.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How long have you been playing this game? A few months? Since 3.0 came out? Whopdee. I have seen this game transgress from the very begining. Things change yes, things may become better or take a toll for the worse. But this is absolute the worst.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/sigh.
Look at when I registered this name, dolt. Actually, Ive been coming to this board since Dec 02, my original name being Insane Homeless Man, but I deleted that account so I could create a new one with the name I was then using. So, in reality, I havnt been here much shorter a time than you.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its not speculation, its not generalized. Its a known fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thread #1: Refers to standard combat, not what we are talking about.
Thread #2: Refers to standard combat in a completely different context, not what we are talking about
Thread #3: Commy asking for a server with no specifications as to the ruleset. Absolutely nothing to do with our topic.
Thread #4: Lots of opinians on this thread, several more animated folk screaming about how horrid the combat mods are. Ever notice its the exact same people who are always complaining about it, though? Small amounts of people with large amounts of posting about the same thing gives the illusion that what they say is felt by a majority. Again, servers would not be filled to capacity playing combats mods if they were not popular and everyone hated them.
Thread #5: Again, absoluting nothing to do with combat. This thread is a generalization of all of the v3 final.
Thread #6: Fangs whining like a baby about how he hates CO, and circumstantial evidance that CO is 5 to 8 times as popular as NS.
Sky completely sums it all up nicely: Also, whining about this particular problem isn't going to do anything, except of course **** people off. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Co isn't going anywhere; stop complaining and find a server you like</span>. 22 isn't enough for you?
Overall UC, those 6 threads did practically nothing to support your claim that modded CO is the worst thing to happen to NS, ever. Only threads four and six (the only actually relevant threads) proved was that the more a person hates something the louder they cry about it, but we all knew that already. A few people despise MCO, but those few are a far cry from the majority.
I do realize you are stuck in a perpetual catch-22. You cant find a server you like, so need to make one. You cant make one, so you need to find one you like. I think you realize this aswell, and there is nothing you can really do to change it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a ritualistic burning at the stake would make me feel alot better, you being the guest of honor
Indeed it is. It left, hmm, or rather, ran away, when 2.0 was released.
Dont expect me to sift through 7 pages and compare the numbers of people who like combat vs the ones who dont. You do that and post your results to further your point.
Although, even if in that single thread there is a large majority of people who dislike MCO, for how many of those people who posted they didnt like it, did not post but do like it? There is always a disproportionate number of people who post whines in comparison to praises.
I said, "Post count +1"
<a href='http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922' target='_blank'>http://carcino.gen.nz/images/index.php/00b9a680/463c5922</a>
Yeah Elec. CO is more complex than classic.....*dies on floor from laughter*
Yeah it seems with every week that goes by i see less classic AND co. I don't even play CO anymore the last time i did i saw some kind of build menu thing which was just about the dumbest thing i've seen in a game yet and the funny thing is people play that ****...it's almost like they have never seen classic it's so flipping stupid....
Oh and now i hear there's some kinda warcraft mod now? I mean WTH is going on?
when Im having a bout of insomnia, I do like arguing to pass the time.
And posting that pic isnt really as cool as you think. Making fun of people with mental handicaps speaks volumes about your character.
If you don't argue with him he wont be an issue, those giving him attention are as annoying as he is, you're giving him what he wants.
172 Classic servers using steam list.
This is with all settings turned off.
Aye I remember when it was just classic. Aye I miss those days.
To long, eh? I guess Ill shorten them up in the future.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you don't argue with him he wont be an issue<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Simply accept the fact that I am right, and we wont need to argue anymore
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Complaining to the developers or server operators about the proportion of modded servers to unmodded ones is pointless. The server operators are merely serving their playerbase, and the developers cannot simply remove something that is so popular. Not without serious consequences, at least.
Instead of complaining, we could be far more productive by investigating why such modded servers are so popular, so that perhaps a solution could be reached. A number of insightful posts regarding this have already been made in this thread, but they've unfortunately been drowned out by all the noise.
I also agree that NS in general is being dumbed down. Thank god for NSArmslab Classic (and no its not a plug... I'm just mentioning it because its practically the last frontier when it comes to classic).
Realisticly, here's our options:
- Convince the developers to make NS Classic teamplay "easier", thus more fun for the average person who is not part of a small, tight community or clan.
- Start a new classic only server.
The problem with #1 is the devs keep changing or intentionally being unspecific as to their goals... so we'll never really know if the devs truely want 'Classic NS' to reign or if they simply want to build the biggest playerbase possible by going with the flow and conforming the game to the will of the masses (CO).
The problem with #2 is advertising. I've tried to run a (fairly large) NS Classic server but it goes empty. I've gotten it full a couple of times, sure, only after starting it up with friends. I'm sure if more people knew about a low-ping classic-only server, they'd check it out. A place to advertise NS servers would be nice.
You can't blame the modders for killing NS. They actually helped by mixing it up and keeping people interested. You have to make classic more fun and attract people back.
</li><li>Not easy to learn. Many players stick with Combat because they don't understand classic NS.
</li><li>Too much waiting. Going gorge and building things is not a casual player's idea of a fun time. Travel times and gestation times also contribute. Combat, on the other hand, has nonstop action.
</li><li>Teamwork is required, but is not promoted by the game mechanics. (SentrySteve's point; read his posts on page 2 for more detail.)
</li></ul><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't you get it civ?
These are good things. The steep learning curve of NS acts as a kind of filter, through which the more feeble-minded simpletons (of counter-strike ilk) do not pass.
With combat introduced, it allows the lesser people, the riff-raff, to eek their way into the community, and, as beloved devotees of NS have been saying for months, destroy it.
Good riddance to the people who don't have the patience, focus, or raw intellect to comprehend classic NS play. We don't want nor need them here.
Your argument that NS is too newb-unfriendly to succeed doesn't hold water. If there are enough people who can learn the detailed intricacies to games like Civilization III, Rise of Nations, Starcraft, and the vastly popular MMORPGS like SWG, EQ and WOW, there sure as hell are enough people who can learn the game of classic NS. These are the people we want. The fools who are attracted to combat and who have poisoned this community are not.
NS is much more difficult to start playing. You really have to read much of the manual to understand what's going on in the game, and a casual player isn't likely to do this. Also, because of the requirement for teamwork, an inexperienced player can't really learn things by experimentation, as he could cause his team to lose. I could go on, but I think you see my point, and I really need to sleep. This isn't about weak-minded players, and making the game easier for them. This is about casual players. This is about making the game easier to pick up and more fun to play.
Aparantly according to some there are no unmodded CO servers or NS/CO servers..... well your wrong i find quite a few.... but then i am in europe and all you seem to include in your examples are american servers.... even though you may ping at 130 or higher on europe servers there are ones which don't have any game changing plugins at all and there are quite a few....
If you think there are no un-modded servers then you are living in a dream world.
And quiting the game because you cba to find a server without plugins.. lol
gg to that guy quit because you cba to find servers... maybe perhaps the ones which aint modded are 130 ping... so what ive seen plenty of players from american/canadian soil playing on europian servers with anywhere between 130 - 200 ping and they seem to have gotten used to the ping and play quite well... so high ping is no excuse really.....
The arguement from what i have read is pointless...... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh and thank you for the compliment Curve <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lmao, I think I hurt your little feelings, look why should I be forced to not play at all because 90% of the server admins out their run the most atrocious mods ever conceived. Im not angry they exist, Im angry its all Im able to play because there really aren't well populated stock ns/co servers out there. You're a shining example of whats wrong with this dying community<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but it’s up to you to change than. Server owners running Natural Selection servers are the backbone of the community. You don’t feel that comfortable with the current selection of servers for you? There’s a pretty easy solution. Get your own server and create an environment you and others like to play.
And btw. if there are so much players are not satisfied with the current server selection why there are so less server matching you philosophy?
Answers may be:
1. there are NOT as much players unsatisfied as you think/wish
2. the group of unsatisfied player of the current selection of servers prefer to whine but not to take actions against it
3. ?
NS is much more difficult to start playing. You really have to read much of the manual to understand what's going on in the game, and a casual player isn't likely to do this. Also, because of the requirement for teamwork, an inexperienced player can't really learn things by experimentation, as he could cause his team to lose. I could go on, but I think you see my point, and I really need to sleep. This isn't about weak-minded players, and making the game easier for them. This is about casual players. This is about making the game easier to pick up and more fun to play. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the feeling thats the same way of thinking Flayra used when he implimented combat; and look where it's gotten us.
What you're saying is valid to an extent whether I agree with it or not, but I would contend that you're overblowing the learning curve.
<b>I started playing the game the day after it came out. I never touched a manuel the entire time. Everything I learned was by trial and error and experience. Granted, the game was just released and everyone was a newb, but players still can and do learn this way. Just keep your mouth shut and don't make a spectacle out of your newbness, try to follow along, and that's really all there is to it.</b>
Combat was supposed to be the gateway for the uninitiated into the greater NS community. Instead it has overtaken it and the lower class players dominate the scene.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just covered this idiotic way of thinking a page ago. Typically it got drowned down in a load of useless banter. I'll reiterate until you people stop using that moronic notion (it's up to you to change, start your own server then, bla bla). In short: the community as a whole is dying because of 'you people,' and the problem is you and nothing else.
<!--QuoteBegin-The Finch+Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Finch @ Jun 10 2005, 12:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you want a classic server, pay for one. You can mock servers like nsarmslab all you like, but they're usually filled to capacity. Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?
Just because you want to play classic sans mods doesn't mean others want to or should have to. Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh how I utterly despise your kind, your logic, your choice of words and rhetorc; let's face it, I hate every molecule that constitutes your existance.
It doesn't take an IQ of 180 to realize concentric circles of influence expand from significant events - in this case, the implementation of counter strike style death match into a game whose core is rooted in real time strategy and teamwork, the absolute antithesis of what Natural Selection is trying to accomplish (teamwork, foresight, multi tasking, etc.).
<i>Why would they implement a game "the way it's supposed to be" if it would just clear out their servers?</i>
The only reason it clears out servers is because most of the NS community has been tainted with combat players - a distasteful group of similar minded people who are more at home in a 24/7 de_dust server than in any NS game.
A better question is why would they impliment a game that deters entirely from the main points of Natural Selection (strategy & teamwork), and continue to foster a parasitic crowd (combat players) that is destroying the community from within?
You prepose that NS classic fans put up more NS classic servers, and this would lead to a solution? The only solution is to purify the community so that only players who like the game "the way it's supposed to be played" are left.
<i>Classic has plenty of problems, most notably its utter inability to scale to larger games. It's far too limited to ever be successful, it's on old technology and the learning curve is wrist-slittingly hard.</i>
See what we have here? Someone who doesn't even consider playing classic, let alone know how to; and they want to have an opinion on how the game develops and the direction it heads?! BS. You are internet riff-raff. The scum of the online ecosystem that no one really wants moving into their communities (see the politically incorrect analogy I'm drawing?), and when everyone gets lenient and let them in, they erode it from its core.
THIS is what combat has brought to our beloved little enclave. This is what has wattered down the essence of not only the game, but the <b>quality of players</b>, the most important aspect of an online game community. This is what sickens those of us who are true NSPlayers, and who couldn't be more contented had combat been eliminated in the last patch.
The number of downloads are a very good indicator of the popularity of these plugins - the numbers speak for themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
mvm been downloaded over 1000 times, right?
How many MvM servers are there? Like 2, right?
Obviously DL numbers are NOT a good indicator.
The simple fact is, these stupid mods shouldn't be forced on anyone. Just because everyone else wants to play them dosen't mean I should have to also. Its impossible to seed a new server unless you have an idiotic mod on it, and I see even less servers than what sandstorm posted. Which is 2-3. Rediculous. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one's forcing you or any other ns player to play on a modded server, no one.
@Sandstorm: I feel your list is conservative (my server didn't show on it). <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The simple fact is, these stupid mods shouldn't be forced on anyone. Just because everyone else wants to play them dosen't mean I should have to also. Its impossible to seed a new server unless you have an idiotic mod on it, and I see even less servers than what sandstorm posted. Which is 2-3. Rediculous. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one's forcing you or any other ns player to play on a modded server, no one.
@Sandstorm: I feel your list is conservative (my server didn't show on it). <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fact there ARENT any other servers except for a couple arms lab servers, and FR31NS, I'd say my choices are pretty damned limited.
These are good things. The steep learning curve of NS acts as a kind of filter, through which the more feeble-minded simpletons (of counter-strike ilk) do not pass. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and because you hold down your "+use" key on an unbuilt structure you're 10x better than they are.
If you love this filter so much I hope I dont see you ever complain about the lack of NS Classic servers - because this filter is killing your favorite game.
Complaining to the developers or server operators about the proportion of modded servers to unmodded ones is pointless. The server operators are merely serving their playerbase, and the developers cannot simply remove something that is so popular. Not without serious consequences, at least.
Instead of complaining, we could be far more productive by investigating why such modded servers are so popular, so that perhaps a solution could be reached. A number of insightful posts regarding this have already been made in this thread, but they've unfortunately been drowned out by all the noise.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT! Probably the most intelligent reply in this thread to date, and this from a clan player.
<b>Because a few dozen forum members consistently bash modded combat (out of the thousands of players who play it) do they really think their incessant whining is going to produce any positive results? Of course not, it's simply a never-ending drama that they won't let die. It's getting old, terribly old .... ... .. .</b>
You want Combat with no game-altering mods? Server IP in my siggy. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Yes, it's plain vanilla except for mvm.
lol
If so, get the clan motivated into extreme activity, then there is no reason to go on a public server.
If not try gather networks, generally have mix's starting 1 an hour, no need to go on publics ever again!
Edit - I just realised how sarcastic this sounded, I didn't mean it that way.
If ns were my mod, I wouldn't let people afflicted with short attention spans sodomize my creation
If so, get the clan motivated into extreme activity, then there is no reason to go on a public server.
If not try gather networks, generally have mix's starting 1 an hour, no need to go on publics ever again! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've ended up pubbing as a clan 6-7 times because there just isn't enough NS clans around to scrim whenever the hell you want too. That's part of where this whole frigging topic comes from. Granted more active clan member would mean more scrim opportunities there still is going to be times when you can't scrim with people just because everyone isn't around.
If so, get the clan motivated into extreme activity, then there is no reason to go on a public server.
If not try gather networks, generally have mix's starting 1 an hour, no need to go on publics ever again! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've ended up pubbing as a clan 6-7 times because there just isn't enough NS clans around to scrim whenever the hell you want too. That's part of where this whole frigging topic comes from. Granted more active clan member would mean more scrim opportunities there still is going to be times when you can't scrim with people just because everyone isn't around. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then use option 2.
Although, yea, many of them are invite only now. But thats due to the sorry state NS is in at the moment, always hope that it will pull out, and thats with only a little doubt.