Wow, I posted last night and came back to see red words everywhere. Looks like I missed some "fun". I feared when I posted something that it would start another debate. I wasn't really wanting that to happen, nor was I going to continue the topic after my original post, but it looks like I wasn't needed to continue it, hehe.
---
Are you sure you want to get a Desert Eagle? Those things have quite a kick on them, don't they?
The Jericho 941 (Baby desert eagle) is a CZ-75 clone that can be had for around $400 on average. For every day carry they are rather heavy, but some don't mind the weight, and it helps with recoil. There are lighter polymer framed versions out there too. They are generally considered to be solid, very reliable pistols. It is quite a bit smaller than the desert eagle and is not really related, except in name and manufacturer. It comes in 9mm, .40, .45, and (at one time), .41 AE
Again my advice would be to go out and try different pistols on for size. If there is no place that lets you rent them, at the very least, you can go to a gunshop and handle them to see what feels good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Jun 17 2005, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jun 17 2005, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Jun 17 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Jun 17 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Contrary to popular opinion, <span style='color:red'>Relevant post deleted.</span> also:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->rel·e·vant Audio pronunciation of "relevant" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-vnt) adj.
Having a bearing on or connection with the matter at hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Burncycle is looking for the word irrelevant? Lololz. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was relevant to the irrelevant post <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bingo. The reply was deleted because the post it had something to do with (the "relevant post") was deleted.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited June 2005
If you have never shot before especially a handgun you might want to look into either a .22 automatic or a revolver.
the .22 b/c ammo for it is the cheapest of any kind so its inexpensive to shoot. It has low recoil so getting your handgun shooting basics is much easier.
Revolvers are the most reliable handgun around. Far more than an any automatic.
Less moving parts and it cant jam. The only reason it might not fire is if you are dumb and never clean it.
Revolvers are also better handguns to train on if you have ever shot handguns before.
Also beleive it or not but you can actualy fire a revolver faster than you can an automatic. The world record holder can fire 6 rounds, do a reload with a speed loader and fire 6 more shots in 2.6 seconds. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Dont ask me how but its done but hes just that good. If you try to do that with an automatic pistol you will jam the slide.
In terms of a good revolver for general everything, lool into the Smith and Wesson model 65 or if you want something a step up the model 686.
As for automatics GLOCK and H&K are very good options.
The .40 cal GLOCK 22 is a personal favorite of mine. If you want a concealed carry permit you might want a compact model weapon.
GLOCK has several of these from full sized to very small frames. like the .45 GLOCK 36. GLOCK also comes in 9mm, .40 .45, .357sig, and i think maybe even .45 GAP but not sure on that one.
The Heckler and Koch P2000 comes in a compact and a sub compact model and is also a good choice if a bit expensive. But its definitly quality.
If you are looking for an old school .45 automatic You might think Colt, but in my opinion and many others, colt is more of a name now only. Para Ordinance and Kimber make some very fine .45 autos. Kimber is a bit on the pricy side but you will get something worth every cent of it.
Once again if you are just starting to shoot handguns i wouldnt recommend a .45 auto just yet.
As for rifles and shotguns, wide range. My friend owns a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle and he loves it. My other friend also owns a Bushmaster M4 type carbine. Also a very nice carbine.
Omega_DeathSith apprentice to a box of CerealJoin Date: 2003-08-06Member: 19042Members
Yeah I've been keeping the 1911 in the back of my mind but like the revolvers and the desert eagles that might be a bit much of power in a pistol for what I want.
a .22 Revolver Longbarrel with an 10 shot cylinder if you just want a gun to shoot
a .357 Mag with a 8 shot cylinder if you want something to shoot that
A) Won't break your bank B) Won't break your arm C) Will put a man down in one hit to the center body
or
a .44 Magnum with a 6 shot cylinder if you want something that
A) Will put a basketball sized HOLE in someone's torso B) Will put a man down PERIOD wherever you hit him C) Will make squirrel hunting a lot of fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I got a .44 Mag for small game in my back yard... that is SO fun! Bam *splorch*
far as automatics...
1911 Colt standard .45 Cal Auto with a 10 shot clip. Power, Reliability, and Style all in one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Omega_DeathSith apprentice to a box of CerealJoin Date: 2003-08-06Member: 19042Members
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletHead+Jun 17 2005, 10:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletHead @ Jun 17 2005, 10:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> C) Will make squirrel hunting a lot of fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have no doubt of that. But unfortunately I'm not a big fan of the revolver style.
Deagle- prolly the easiest most powerful one to handle (aka, the most powerful the average person can use without hurting themselves... much) Heavy, Hard hitting, expensive w/ expensive ammo. Pretty. Will put a bowlingball size + hole in someone.
1911 Colt 45 SI- Poweful, Effective, and damn simple. The Apple of Auto's, rivled only by the Ruger and Luger. Will put a baseball sized hole in a person. Lightweightish in comparison.
.45 cal Berette- small, easy to conceal, effective 10 yards max. Puts a fist sized hole in you, but at 20 yards you'll aim for their head and blow off their balls. 3 inch barrel = tiny gun and a good kick but NO accuracy past 5 yards.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Far as autos go
Deagle- prolly the easiest most powerful one to handle (aka, the most powerful the average person can use without hurting themselves... much) Heavy, Hard hitting, expensive w/ expensive ammo. Pretty. Will put a bowlingball size + hole in someone.
1911 Colt 45 SI- Poweful, Effective, and damn simple. The Apple of Auto's, rivled only by the Ruger and Luger. Will put a baseball sized hole in a person. Lightweightish in comparison.
.45 cal Berette- small, easy to conceal, effective 10 yards max. Puts a fist sized hole in you, but at 20 yards you'll aim for their head and blow off their balls. 3 inch barrel = tiny gun and a good kick but NO accuracy past 5 yards. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're joking right? Where did you hear it will put a "bowling ball/baseball/fist size hole" in someone? Have you actually fired any of the above?
Omega, again I would handle a variety and see what feels the most comfortable.
You need to ask yourself: 1) What sort of action do you want? Single action only? Double action only? Both Single action and double action? 2) What kind of safety features do you want? "Point and shoot" like glocks and springfield XD's, or do you perfer manual safeties like the 1911's? 3) Are you more concerned with capability or concealability? Some people buy tiny mouseguns, others find a way to carry full sized pistols, even if that means resorting to fanny packs 4) What caliber are you interested in?
In the grand scheme of things, all of the common calibers will do the job, be it 9mm, .357 Sig, 40 S&W, .45 ACP/GAP, or 10mm auto. The most important thing with any firearm is shot placement; there's no point in buying an uber powerful handgun right off the bat only to find out that it's hard to control and hit the target with. This is why I suggested going to the range that lets you rent pistols, or with a friend who owns a variety of them. Find out the most powerful caliber YOU can comfortably control, because hitting the target is more important than how big the boom is, and then find the most comfortable pistol in that caliber.
You are going to hear a ton of people screaming a ton of different brand names and pistols out at you all at once. Keep in mind though that something that is right for them may not be right for you. If ANY of the pistols listed peaked your interest, it doesn't mean you should go out and buy one right away; instead, you should do a google search on that pistol and learn all you can about it first. You'll come across descriptive websites, but also forums with actual user reviews and comments that may make the difference in your decision.
After you finally select one, then comes the long process of getting your permit and finding which ammo is right for you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Cough. Have you ever seen a real gunwound burncycle?
The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".
This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances.
And just to stay more ontopic, than i already am:
Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.
G36:
3630 gramms, 480 for a 30 round clip (filled) range > 2km intigrated 3x optical zoom. option for a reflex optical easy to clean and to handle option for a bipod and a 100 bullet mag, which allows it to be used as a light machine gun the clips can be connected witheout further manipulating them option for a night vision prize should be about 1000 euros (military version)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cough. Have you ever seen a real gunwound burncycle?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Have you ever seen a real bowling ball?
While I'm by no means an expert, I've done quite a bit of research on the matter of terminal effects, both because of my interest in firearms and because of my interest in first aid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am aware that exit wounds tend to be larger than enterance wounds. My question was, where did he hear that they exit wounds in question were the size he mentioned for those particular calibers, and what ammunition was used in those incidents. I believe it to be exaggerated, and did not want omega to be disappointed when the bullets aren't as uber as he's heard they were.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how it's possible to create an entry wound the size of a fist as you describe unless the hollow point somehow magically expands before hitting a target. Even with full expansion, the entry hole wouldn't be the size of a fist. Furthermore, I don't know of any standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition that is hollowpoint, unless you are referring to open tip Sierra Matchking, in which case the hole is there for other reasons.
While we're on the subject of 5.56mm NATO ammunition, US current issue M855 can cause a rather devistating wound profile thanks to it's construction, although it wasn't designed specifically to do this, it ended up having the characteristic. Unlike most rifle rounds that tumble, the full metal jacketed (not hollow point) M193 and M855 5.56mm rounds tends to tear itself apart and fragment violently given sufficient velocities, as shown by the wound tracks in ballistic gel under Dr. Facklers research.
In contrast, the larger 7.62 x 39 (from AK-47/SKS) just tumbles, showing a great deal more penetration but a significantly smaller permanent cavity as it only tumbles and does not fragment.
Interestingly enough, this characteristic is the reason that 5.56 can actually do more damage than 7.62 x 39 (AK-47), depending on the range and muzzle velocities. My point is, while generally bigger bullets do create bigger permanent and temporary cavities (as well as larger exit wounds), it isn't _always_ the case. The .50 AE fired by the desert eagle probably does indeed create a larger exit wound than it's smaller siblings like 9mm or .45. I'm not arguing this; I just don't know I'd venture to guess that it's "bowling ball size" unless bullethead has some experience that I do not in the matter, especially when the size of the exit wound depends on so many factors.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
edited June 2005
Depends on what your preferances are! What have you shot before? Are you looking for a pistol or a full rifle? Maybe even a carbine?
You said you were looking for a conceiled carry weapon, (CCW) Like selecting alot of things it's a manner of personal preferance.I don't approve of the Desert Eagle Magnum as a CWP weapon in this respect, it's bulky, heavy, and really pointless. Plus if your carrying one and someone spots you they are probably going to laugh. I would. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If your going to aquire a 9mm Baretta Cx4 Storm I'd suggest getting a pistol that can interchange magazines with it, like a Beretta 92FS or Taurus PT92. Excellent weapons, I prefer wheelguns and CZ-75 varients. My treasured carry pistol is my 10mm Bren Ten. Which I don't really carry very often anymore since. Well, IT'S A BREN TEN. It's really my answer to dudes with Desert Eagle Mags at the range. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Enough bragging.
Regarding the Mini-14's I dislike them, A AK-47(or 74) semi automatic varient is cheaper, more accurate, much more relaible and can accept surplus ammunition much better then Ruger's stuff. I disaprove on their policy regarding the sale of full capacity magazines.
Garands are fullsized semiautomatic gas operated rifles. Very fun to shoot you won't be going wron with it, along with the fact you can go hunting, it's just a fun gun to have, (I shoot a M14 simply because ammo is cheaper). But they now make .308 Garands.
I used to work in a gun store so if you have any other questions gimme a jingle my AIM is silikon2501 and id be glad to help. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And good luck in your selection.
UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Burncycle+Jun 18 2005, 02:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Burncycle @ Jun 18 2005, 02:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cough. Have you ever seen a real gunwound burncycle?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Have you ever seen a real bowling ball?
While I'm by no means an expert, I've done quite a bit of research on the matter of terminal effects, both because of my interest in firearms and because of my interest in first aid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am aware that exit wounds tend to be larger than enterance wounds. My question was, where did he hear that they exit wounds in question were the size he mentioned for those particular calibers, and what ammunition was used in those incidents. I believe it to be exaggerated, and did not want omega to be disappointed when the bullets aren't as uber as he's heard they were.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how it's possible to create an entry wound the size of a fist as you describe unless the hollow point somehow magically expands before hitting a target. Even with full expansion, the entry hole wouldn't be the size of a fist. Furthermore, I don't know of any standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition that is hollowpoint, unless you are referring to open tip Sierra Matchking, in which case the hole is there for other reasons.
While we're on the subject of 5.56mm NATO ammunition, US current issue M855 can cause a rather devistating wound profile thanks to it's construction, although it wasn't designed specifically to do this, it ended up having the characteristic. Unlike most rifle rounds that tumble, the full metal jacketed (not hollow point) M193 and M855 5.56mm rounds tends to tear itself apart and fragment violently given sufficient velocities, as shown by the wound tracks in ballistic gel under Dr. Facklers research.
In contrast, the larger 7.62 x 39 (from AK-47/SKS) just tumbles, showing a great deal more penetration but a significantly smaller permanent cavity as it only tumbles and does not fragment.
Interestingly enough, this characteristic is the reason that 5.56 can actually do more damage than 7.62 x 39 (AK-47), depending on the range and muzzle velocities. My point is, while generally bigger bullets do create bigger permanent and temporary cavities (as well as larger exit wounds), it isn't _always_ the case. The .50 AE fired by the desert eagle probably does indeed create a larger exit wound than it's smaller siblings like 9mm or .45. I'm not arguing this; I just don't know I'd venture to guess that it's "bowling ball size" unless bullethead has some experience that I do not in the matter, especially when the size of the exit wound depends on so many factors.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> All of that is still meger to the 5.45 wound ballistics. The new 5.45x39 round is psychotic
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Fatal Error+Jun 17 2005, 06:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fatal Error @ Jun 17 2005, 06:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I agree, but Revolver rounds are quite expensive, correct? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They arnt any more expensive than .45 auto or 40 etc..
you can get 59 rounds of .38 special, for around $15 the same as 50 rounds of .40 cal.
The .22 rimfire ammo is by far the cheapest. Also 9mm is pretty cheap too as you can get 100 rounds for $15.
<!--QuoteBegin-Anbu+Jun 18 2005, 09:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Anbu @ Jun 18 2005, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> nothing short of a cannon will blow a bowling-ball sized hole in anybody.
G36 is an assault rifle, not a pistol. even if you played rainbow six you'd know that :| <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Who said, that the g36 was a pistol <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
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Are you sure you want to get a Desert Eagle? Those things have quite a kick on them, don't they?
"You are statistically more likely to kill yourself than to be murdered. think about that before buying a gun."
Again my advice would be to go out and try different pistols on for size. If there is no place that lets you rent them, at the very least, you can go to a gunshop and handle them to see what feels good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Jun 17 2005, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jun 17 2005, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Jun 17 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Jun 17 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Contrary to popular opinion, <span style='color:red'>Relevant post deleted.</span>
also:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->rel·e·vant Audio pronunciation of "relevant" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-vnt)
adj.
Having a bearing on or connection with the matter at hand.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Burncycle is looking for the word irrelevant? Lololz. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was relevant to the irrelevant post <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo. The reply was deleted because the post it had something to do with (the "relevant post") was deleted.
Trust me, you'll not put DOWN a deer, you'll blow it's fuggin HEAD off!
Hangun- .44 Magnum 6 shot
Most powerful USEFUL handgun ever! (cept for the .50 cal tankbuster)
the .22 b/c ammo for it is the cheapest of any kind so its inexpensive to shoot. It has low recoil so getting your handgun shooting basics is much easier.
Revolvers are the most reliable handgun around. Far more than an any automatic.
Less moving parts and it cant jam. The only reason it might not fire is if you are dumb and never clean it.
Revolvers are also better handguns to train on if you have ever shot handguns before.
Also beleive it or not but you can actualy fire a revolver faster than you can an automatic. The world record holder can fire 6 rounds, do a reload with a speed loader and fire 6 more shots in 2.6 seconds.
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Dont ask me how but its done but hes just that good.
If you try to do that with an automatic pistol you will jam the slide.
In terms of a good revolver for general everything, lool into the Smith and Wesson model 65 or if you want something a step up the model 686.
As for automatics GLOCK and H&K are very good options.
The .40 cal GLOCK 22 is a personal favorite of mine.
If you want a concealed carry permit you might want a compact model weapon.
GLOCK has several of these from full sized to very small frames. like the .45 GLOCK 36. GLOCK also comes in 9mm, .40 .45, .357sig, and i think maybe even .45 GAP but not sure on that one.
The Heckler and Koch P2000 comes in a compact and a sub compact model and is also a good choice if a bit expensive. But its definitly quality.
If you are looking for an old school .45 automatic You might think Colt, but in my opinion and many others, colt is more of a name now only. Para Ordinance and Kimber make some very fine .45 autos. Kimber is a bit on the pricy side but you will get something worth every cent of it.
Once again if you are just starting to shoot handguns i wouldnt recommend a .45 auto just yet.
As for rifles and shotguns, wide range. My friend owns a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle and he loves it. My other friend also owns a Bushmaster M4 type carbine. Also a very nice carbine.
(When there are no adverts on TV)
/me wonders as well
/me wonders if Omega is American, because if yes... no further questions.
Also, Go for a Colt .45. Great weapon.
a .357 Mag with a 8 shot cylinder if you want something to shoot that
A) Won't break your bank
B) Won't break your arm
C) Will put a man down in one hit to the center body
or
a .44 Magnum with a 6 shot cylinder if you want something that
A) Will put a basketball sized HOLE in someone's torso
B) Will put a man down PERIOD wherever you hit him
C) Will make squirrel hunting a lot of fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I got a .44 Mag for small game in my back yard... that is SO fun! Bam *splorch*
far as automatics...
1911 Colt standard .45 Cal Auto with a 10 shot clip. Power, Reliability, and Style all in one <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have no doubt of that. But unfortunately I'm not a big fan of the revolver style.
Far as autos go
Deagle- prolly the easiest most powerful one to handle (aka, the most powerful the average person can use without hurting themselves... much) Heavy, Hard hitting, expensive w/ expensive ammo. Pretty. Will put a bowlingball size + hole in someone.
1911 Colt 45 SI- Poweful, Effective, and damn simple. The Apple of Auto's, rivled only by the Ruger and Luger. Will put a baseball sized hole in a person. Lightweightish in comparison.
.45 cal Berette- small, easy to conceal, effective 10 yards max. Puts a fist sized hole in you, but at 20 yards you'll aim for their head and blow off their balls. 3 inch barrel = tiny gun and a good kick but NO accuracy past 5 yards.
Deagle- prolly the easiest most powerful one to handle (aka, the most powerful the average person can use without hurting themselves... much) Heavy, Hard hitting, expensive w/ expensive ammo. Pretty. Will put a bowlingball size + hole in someone.
1911 Colt 45 SI- Poweful, Effective, and damn simple. The Apple of Auto's, rivled only by the Ruger and Luger. Will put a baseball sized hole in a person. Lightweightish in comparison.
.45 cal Berette- small, easy to conceal, effective 10 yards max. Puts a fist sized hole in you, but at 20 yards you'll aim for their head and blow off their balls. 3 inch barrel = tiny gun and a good kick but NO accuracy past 5 yards. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're joking right? Where did you hear it will put a "bowling ball/baseball/fist size hole" in someone? Have you actually fired any of the above?
Omega, again I would handle a variety and see what feels the most comfortable.
You need to ask yourself:
1) What sort of action do you want? Single action only? Double action only? Both Single action and double action?
2) What kind of safety features do you want? "Point and shoot" like glocks and springfield XD's, or do you perfer manual safeties like the 1911's?
3) Are you more concerned with capability or concealability? Some people buy tiny mouseguns, others find a way to carry full sized pistols, even if that means resorting to fanny packs
4) What caliber are you interested in?
In the grand scheme of things, all of the common calibers will do the job, be it 9mm, .357 Sig, 40 S&W, .45 ACP/GAP, or 10mm auto. The most important thing with any firearm is shot placement; there's no point in buying an uber powerful handgun right off the bat only to find out that it's hard to control and hit the target with. This is why I suggested going to the range that lets you rent pistols, or with a friend who owns a variety of them. Find out the most powerful caliber YOU can comfortably control, because hitting the target is more important than how big the boom is, and then find the most comfortable pistol in that caliber.
You are going to hear a ton of people screaming a ton of different brand names and pistols out at you all at once. Keep in mind though that something that is right for them may not be right for you. If ANY of the pistols listed peaked your interest, it doesn't mean you should go out and buy one right away; instead, you should do a google search on that pistol and learn all you can about it first. You'll come across descriptive websites, but also forums with actual user reviews and comments that may make the difference in your decision.
After you finally select one, then comes the long process of getting your permit and finding which ammo is right for you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".
This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances.
And just to stay more ontopic, than i already am:
Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.
G36:
3630 gramms, 480 for a 30 round clip (filled)
range > 2km
intigrated 3x optical zoom.
option for a reflex optical
easy to clean and to handle
option for a bipod and a 100 bullet mag, which allows it to be used as a light machine gun
the clips can be connected witheout further manipulating them
option for a night vision
prize should be about 1000 euros (military version)
Yes. Have you ever seen a real bowling ball?
While I'm by no means an expert, I've done quite a bit of research on the matter of terminal effects, both because of my interest in firearms and because of my interest in first aid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am aware that exit wounds tend to be larger than enterance wounds. My question was, where did he hear that they exit wounds in question were the size he mentioned for those particular calibers, and what ammunition was used in those incidents. I believe it to be exaggerated, and did not want omega to be disappointed when the bullets aren't as uber as he's heard they were.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how it's possible to create an entry wound the size of a fist as you describe unless the hollow point somehow magically expands before hitting a target. Even with full expansion, the entry hole wouldn't be the size of a fist. Furthermore, I don't know of any standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition that is hollowpoint, unless you are referring to open tip Sierra Matchking, in which case the hole is there for other reasons.
While we're on the subject of 5.56mm NATO ammunition, US current issue M855 can cause a rather devistating wound profile thanks to it's construction, although it wasn't designed specifically to do this, it ended up having the characteristic. Unlike most rifle rounds that tumble, the full metal jacketed (not hollow point) M193 and M855 5.56mm rounds tends to tear itself apart and fragment violently given sufficient velocities, as shown by the wound tracks in ballistic gel under Dr. Facklers research.
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/M193.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...ofiles/M193.jpg</a>
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/M855.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...ofiles/M855.jpg</a>
In contrast, the larger 7.62 x 39 (from AK-47/SKS) just tumbles, showing a great deal more penetration but a significantly smaller permanent cavity as it only tumbles and does not fragment.
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/AK-47%20762x39mm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...%20762x39mm.jpg</a>
Interestingly enough, this characteristic is the reason that 5.56 can actually do more damage than 7.62 x 39 (AK-47), depending on the range and muzzle velocities. My point is, while generally bigger bullets do create bigger permanent and temporary cavities (as well as larger exit wounds), it isn't _always_ the case. The .50 AE fired by the desert eagle probably does indeed create a larger exit wound than it's smaller siblings like 9mm or .45. I'm not arguing this; I just don't know I'd venture to guess that it's "bowling ball size" unless bullethead has some experience that I do not in the matter, especially when the size of the exit wound depends on so many factors.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
G36 is an assault rifle, not a pistol. even if you played rainbow six you'd know that :|
You said you were looking for a conceiled carry weapon, (CCW) Like selecting alot of things it's a manner of personal preferance.I don't approve of the Desert Eagle Magnum as a CWP weapon in this respect, it's bulky, heavy, and really pointless. Plus if your carrying one and someone spots you they are probably going to laugh. I would. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If your going to aquire a 9mm Baretta Cx4 Storm I'd suggest getting a pistol that can interchange magazines with it, like a Beretta 92FS or Taurus PT92. Excellent weapons, I prefer wheelguns and CZ-75 varients. My treasured carry pistol is my 10mm Bren Ten. Which I don't really carry very often anymore since. Well, IT'S A BREN TEN. It's really my answer to dudes with Desert Eagle Mags at the range.
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Enough bragging.
Regarding the Mini-14's I dislike them, A AK-47(or 74) semi automatic varient is cheaper, more accurate, much more relaible and can accept surplus ammunition much better then Ruger's stuff. I disaprove on their policy regarding the sale of full capacity magazines.
Garands are fullsized semiautomatic gas operated rifles. Very fun to shoot you won't be going wron with it, along with the fact you can go hunting, it's just a fun gun to have, (I shoot a M14 simply because ammo is cheaper). But they now make .308 Garands.
I used to work in a gun store so if you have any other questions gimme a jingle my AIM is silikon2501 and id be glad to help. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> And good luck in your selection.
Yes. Have you ever seen a real bowling ball?
While I'm by no means an expert, I've done quite a bit of research on the matter of terminal effects, both because of my interest in firearms and because of my interest in first aid.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The hole that is left from the bullets entry is about the bullets size, but when the bullet had enough energy to strike through its target it can create a fist sized "leaving hole".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am aware that exit wounds tend to be larger than enterance wounds. My question was, where did he hear that they exit wounds in question were the size he mentioned for those particular calibers, and what ammunition was used in those incidents. I believe it to be exaggerated, and did not want omega to be disappointed when the bullets aren't as uber as he's heard they were.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is especially true for standard nato "5.56 DK" If you are using "Hohlspitz" ammunition the results are even more devastating because the entry hole can be about the size of a fist. (bullets are unlikely to leave the target when using this ammo type)
I have never shot a single .50 round, but from what i have learned about 5.56 and 9mm weapons and when taking the size relation in account i believe that a .50 round could cause a bowling ball sized hole, under the right circumstances
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure how it's possible to create an entry wound the size of a fist as you describe unless the hollow point somehow magically expands before hitting a target. Even with full expansion, the entry hole wouldn't be the size of a fist. Furthermore, I don't know of any standard 5.56mm NATO ammunition that is hollowpoint, unless you are referring to open tip Sierra Matchking, in which case the hole is there for other reasons.
While we're on the subject of 5.56mm NATO ammunition, US current issue M855 can cause a rather devistating wound profile thanks to it's construction, although it wasn't designed specifically to do this, it ended up having the characteristic. Unlike most rifle rounds that tumble, the full metal jacketed (not hollow point) M193 and M855 5.56mm rounds tends to tear itself apart and fragment violently given sufficient velocities, as shown by the wound tracks in ballistic gel under Dr. Facklers research.
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/M193.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...ofiles/M193.jpg</a>
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/M855.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...ofiles/M855.jpg</a>
In contrast, the larger 7.62 x 39 (from AK-47/SKS) just tumbles, showing a great deal more penetration but a significantly smaller permanent cavity as it only tumbles and does not fragment.
<a href='http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound%20Profiles/AK-47%20762x39mm.jpg' target='_blank'>http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wou...%20762x39mm.jpg</a>
Interestingly enough, this characteristic is the reason that 5.56 can actually do more damage than 7.62 x 39 (AK-47), depending on the range and muzzle velocities. My point is, while generally bigger bullets do create bigger permanent and temporary cavities (as well as larger exit wounds), it isn't _always_ the case. The .50 AE fired by the desert eagle probably does indeed create a larger exit wound than it's smaller siblings like 9mm or .45. I'm not arguing this; I just don't know I'd venture to guess that it's "bowling ball size" unless bullethead has some experience that I do not in the matter, especially when the size of the exit wound depends on so many factors.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pistol knockback is rather high for all USP variations (including p8). So if you want an effecient killing machine, i suggest going for the G36.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of that is still meger to the 5.45 wound ballistics. The new 5.45x39 round is psychotic
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
They arnt any more expensive than .45 auto or 40 etc..
you can get 59 rounds of .38 special, for around $15 the same as 50 rounds of .40 cal.
The .22 rimfire ammo is by far the cheapest. Also 9mm is pretty cheap too as you can get 100 rounds for $15.
Though, my dream gun:
<img src='http://www.shootingtips.com/NewFiles/article/LLM01/SOCOM-MK23.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Seks.
G36 is an assault rifle, not a pistol. even if you played rainbow six you'd know that :| <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said, that the g36 was a pistol <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->