This is an ONLINE version of SSB, mind you. With improvements over SSB:M, which already improved greatly on an already great N64 game, I find no reason not to get excited :O
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 03:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is an ONLINE version of SSB, mind you. With improvements over SSB:M, which already improved greatly on an already great N64 game, I find no reason not to get excited :O <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't worry, let the cavemen play with their tools of stone. When the bronze age cometh, they shall fall to us in droves.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jun 26 2005, 12:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jun 26 2005, 12:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm wondering if branch prediction will be an emphasized part of the cell. With architecture that parallel I wouldn't be surprised if they sent off both branches and just picked the correct one. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The SPEs of the Cell have no branch prediction. This is odd, because McSweeney (of Epic fame) plans on using it for physics processing in their upcoming Unreal engine. The reason why it is odd is because physics is branch heavy. The software will have to do the branch predictions.
And, Quauwhateverthefarkyourname is, you aren't providing any technical information at all. You're just making some random conjecture that supports your assertion, without checking if your guess is right or not. The two consoles will both sport multithreaded problems. Cell is one solution to multithreaded applications. The tri-cored Xenon is another solution. Both do have their strengths and weaknesses. Three multi-purposed general CPUs versus one multi-purpose CPU and 7 single-purposed CPUs can be a close call that will swing both ways. Both keep multithreading in mind, but they have different approaches to it.
I don't see what all the hype is, current generation desktop CPUs are already more powerful than both the Cell and the Xenons, but many rabid fanboys are declaring the end of computer gaming and basking in the hype of Sony.
And on a completely unrelated note, Quauwhateverthefark, when it comes down to price/performance, Dell XPS beats Alienware hands down in terms of gaming. In terms of absolute fastest performance, you're better off building the damn computer yourself and STILL saving cash than if you bought an Alienware.
Frankly, it just seems that you're just another ignorant fanboy lost in the shuffle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey Rapier, why don't you shut your flipping face? No need of that "Fanboy" **** here: I'm just reporting what I've seen at, oh, every single flipping gaming site on the flipping net. I'm not a fanboy for Sony- I think the PS2 was a disaster, games wise, except for GTA, while XBox seemed to foster much better games. Pulling that "fanboy" **** makes you look like some flipping idiot, when I'm just reporting fact.
And so I'm not reporting technical jargon. I'm listening to the people who are using the system on a daily basis: Not people who've analyzed the specs a million times over.
And when it came to the computer stuff, it was a damned example, and you're still wrong in it. First off, yes, building your own PC will be the best option, yes, but that wasn't even one of the flipping options to begin with. And we aren't measuring price/performance, were going performance-performance the entire flipping way. Thats why the PS3 will probably be more expensive than the 360.
Get off your flipping high horse man. I'm just reporting what I'm hearing from those folks, who're actually in it. Not some obscure little observation site.
I have noticed a trend. In almost all of Quaunaut's threads, he inevitably is called a fanboy or whatever just because he gets excited about new stuff that's coming out. Now, granted, no offense meant but he does get a litte too excited sometimes, maybe things don't turn out the way he thought they would, but he's not a fanboy. He'd have his hands full being a fanboy for every single product he's ever posted on the forums, he'd even have to argue with himself a lot.
In conclusion, arguments about next-gen consoles are pointless until we have something to compare. Thank you and good day, no further questions.
EDIT: A note while I was writing this, I was multitasking (talking to other people, taking pics of my PS2/accessories/games to get ready for E-Bay, watching porn) so I didn't see Gaduzko's post.
C'mon, men, no need for hostility. Fact of the matter is that probably nobody here (aside from the extremely slight possibility of Ken20Banks/KungFuSquirrel) has seen the PS3 or X-Box 360 hardware or worked with it, so let's just all be calm and realize that it doesn't matter because Nintendo's the best because I say so.
Even if x chip is good with this and y chip isn't so good at that, neither of you are the chip designers and neither of you depend on the chip's success for your financial stability, so there's really no point in you arguing so intensley. Besides, since the hardware of both chips are so arguably close in performance and definentley good compared to, say, current-gen, what you guys should really be concerned with is the games out for either. And a system that's got innovative hardware, a system that's very easy to develop for, and a system with an innovative control interface are all probably equally inviting for developers, so arguing hardware is even less productive.
In retrospect, please don't mind me popping out of nowhere and saying this.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
If I buy one of the next gen consoles, my only choice is the PS3. I blame those bastards at Konami for not porting Metal Gear Solid 3 and 4. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anandtech is the most respected and most popular computer hardware site on the internet, and it generates a lot more traffic than many gaming sites.
And you ARE talking about technical specifications. You try to pass off the greatness of Cell, you say that it will devastate other people's computers. And it doesn't.
When you talk about the tech. specs, you should know what you're talking about.
Now, if this was a thread saying, "OMGZ TEH PS3 IS TEH ROXORZ" then it wouldn't have been a blip on my radar. But when you're talking about its hardware capabilities and specifications, then I'm interested.
Read, learn, communicate. Don't do the third without doing the first two.
Crono5: Actually, Crono5, it's going to be a headache for developers to create titles for Cell. It uses a completely new architecture, that'll take time getting used to. The entire industry has been programming single threaded games for as long as the gaming industry has been around. Coding for multithreaded hardware gets harder and harder as its complexity grows (Cell). But it can be a payoff in terms of performance.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the PS2 was a disaster, games wise, except for GTA, while XBox seemed to foster much better games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
I can't say anything, anything at all. How anyone could say a console sporting a bunch of half-arsed made for easy PC ports (most of which are much better on PC, or just crap anyway), some of the WORST exclusive platformers ever on a console (Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Blinx) and a complete lack of any innovative titles had better games is...
Just amazing.
I need to go and lie down because my irony meter just fatally exploded.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Crono5: Actually, Crono5, it's going to be a headache for developers to create titles for Cell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X:
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
Actually, sony has been stressing that development for the ps3 is a heck of alot easier than the ps2's is (and i think cliffyb backed that up at the sony press conference, not quite sure)
Developers will make there games for whatever platforms have the support and fanbase.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 26 2005, 08:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 26 2005, 08:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the PS2 was a disaster, games wise, except for GTA, while XBox seemed to foster much better games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
I can't say anything, anything at all. How anyone could say a console sporting a bunch of half-arsed made for easy PC ports (most of which are much better on PC, or just crap anyway), some of the WORST exclusive platformers ever on a console (Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Blinx) and a complete lack of any innovative titles had better games is...
Just amazing.
I need to go and lie down because my irony meter just fatally exploded. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I've spent countless hours enjoying my XBox. But with my PS2, I've noticed I've played more PS1 games on it than PS2. The only ones I even really liked for PS2 were God of War, FFX(kinda. It was a good game, but not enough for the series), GT4, and the GTA:3+s, which first came out there.
XBox though, I've enjoyed Halo 1, a bit of H2 MP(good for a console), Ninja Gaiden, the best version of BG&E, Forza Motorsports(which is a MUCH better sim than GT4), Jade Empire, KoTOR 2(hated #1, and #2 was buggy on the PC), Steel Batallion, the best version of Mercenaries, best version of SSX3, DOA 3 and U, best version of this, that, all of that. Sure, its exclusives were few, but most of the ones they had were pretty good quality(blinx 1 is good if you can be okay with the story, and we can't deny the Halo franchise, the fact that DoA is exclusive for it says something), but the fact that it always had the nicest looking version of any of the three consoles is what really hits the nail on the head. AND the fact that many of the games on XBox pushed the boundaries of gameplay, and/or brought back the best of the roots of the games, when other consoles didn't, really says something. I just enjoyed it much more.
And Rapier: No point in continuing this if you won't listen to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Crono5: Actually, Crono5, it's going to be a headache for developers to create titles for Cell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The PS2 is the system using the Cell processor...
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jun 26 2005, 09:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jun 26 2005, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 10:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 10:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rapier7+Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rapier7 @ Jun 26 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Crono5: Actually, Crono5, it's going to be a headache for developers to create titles for Cell. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The PS2 is the system using the Cell processor... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um...no?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->AND the fact that many of the games on XBox pushed the boundaries of gameplay,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
Good God, you're an irony meter exploding machine.
That is a statement I would never associate with the bland generic games on the X-Box (Bar, as I've mentioned, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Crimson Skies, all three of which didn't sell very well from memory..wonder why...). Sure, if we count ports I guess it has the odd decent game, but then again, ports can be claimed by anything.
Heck, the very fact a large majority of your list are <b>ports</b> or have been ported to the PC [i]proves my entire point to begin with.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 26 2005, 09:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 26 2005, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->AND the fact that many of the games on XBox pushed the boundaries of gameplay,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...
Good God, you're an irony meter exploding machine.
That is a statement I would never associate with the bland generic games on the X-Box (Bar, as I've mentioned, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Crimson Skies, all three of which didn't sell very well from memory..wonder why...). Sure, if we count ports I guess it has the odd decent game, but then again, ports can be claimed by anything.
Heck, the very fact a large majority of your list are <b>ports</b> or have been ported to the PC [i]proves my entire point to begin with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Woah woah, since when did Ninja Gaiden not sell well? And lets look at Jade Empire. Exclusive, and awesome. It was the primary platform of KOTOR. And what titles exactly did much for the PS2? I can count GTA, God of War...and thats it. What else is there? Don't cut my sentences in half either, makes you look stupid.
ANd so their ports? Whats your point? You could say the same for most of the PS2's games.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Woah woah, since when did Ninja Gaiden not sell well?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've heard it didn't do very well, regardless, Panzer Dragoon Orta sold essentially nothing (which is a crime in and of itself) <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> [I may have got these mixed up. One sold next to virtually zero]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It was the primary platform of KOTOR.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Far outclassed by a PC, in both cases because at least many of the silly bugs were fixed in the PC version of KotoR 2 (after a long enough wait). Plus we got some extra crap (not that I cared, the first game was so good the direct port was more than enough, but the sequel was awful and nowhere near the quality of the first game sadly).
Then again, need I mention the engine for KotoR was developed for a PC game, namely NWN? Do we forget little facts like this when it suits you to come out with whatever your spouting? I'm beginning to see Rapiers point now...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And lets look at Jade Empire. Exclusive, and awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edit: Seems it isn't being ported after all. None the less, this is the one example you were able to come up with any merit. Not a good sign.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what titles exactly did much for the PS2? I can count GTA, God of War...and thats it. What else is there? Don't cut my sentences in half either, makes you look stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simpler to answer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Don't have such silly statements in future and we'll have no problems with needing to cut out the nonsense from the rest.
As for your question; Robot Alchemic Drive, Ico, Ratchet and Clank*, Sly Racoon* (although I concede the cell shading really gets to people), Guitaroo Man, Jak and Daxter 2* (the original was nothing special however), God of War (to use your own example), Disgaea, Kingdom Hearts, and <b>more</b>. You really haven't played a lot of PS2 games if you name ports as being better examples of 'brilliant' gameplay :/
Incidently, not one port in the entire lot of those games, even not counting the fact these are brilliant sequels or trilogies by themselves, I don't even require any form of double dipping to artifically expand out my list (which is cheating anyway IMO).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANd so their ports? Whats your point? You could say the same for most of the PS2's games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what games have I named that were ports hmmm?
Waterboy <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Each system has great games that help sell it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, to me, the gamecube barely manages and everything Q has so far come up with has devolved into ports I can play on my PC (with rare exceptions). That doesn't speak well for a console, because it must be EXCLUSIVE to that console only. I won't buy a console for ports.
Period.
Edit: Also, just to let you know I am perfectly reasonable. If you can name 3 triple A <b>exclusive</b> platformers on the X-Box and 3 triple A <b>exclusive</b> X-Box JapRPGs then I'll reconsider my position. Otherwise, and this is why I found your initial statements so laughably absurd, your statement that the X-Box pushed the 'boundaries' of gameplay, yet is riddled with ports and unexceptional games that are exactly the opposite.
Somewhere along the line, I don't buy that argument <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Chrono5 <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one likes Jet Set Radio Future?
Am I the only one on Earth that liked Jet Grind Radio?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I loved the original dreamcast version, but I never got to play Jet Set Radio Future (which was the X-Box version I think). So I wouldn't know how it plays.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 10:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Am I the only one on Earth that liked Jet Grind Radio? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> God, I hope not.
Because anybody who doesn't like Jet Set Radio deserves to be shot.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 01:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 01:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is an ONLINE version of SSB, mind you. With improvements over SSB:M, which already improved greatly on an already great N64 game, I find no reason not to get excited :O <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You make it sound like they're just adding Online for the first game, which we already have Emulator's for.
They better get the characters straight for once. No more Kirby/Sheik bullsh*t. I know fighting game have Top Tier, but God is way off the list.
EDIT: Liku, they haven't revelaed anything aside from online yet, but I expect more gameplay improvements. Anywho, I was able to beat anyone with Shiek as Link (not Young Link) thanks to superior range, projectiles and the hookshot. But I probably haven't had the same level of competition you've had. Also, what makes Kirby superior? His standing B attack? (Sorry, I only play with my friends, none of us are competitive on any ladders or anything of that sort, we live in a pretty rural area).
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 27 2005, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 27 2005, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I loved the original dreamcast version, but I never got to play Jet Set Radio Future (which was the X-Box version I think). So I wouldn't know how it plays. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> JSRF is basically like JGR 1.75- it added a few areas and improved the gameplay, but it wasn't a complete sequel and borrowed some areas from the Dreamcast game (I've played both, have Jet Grind Radio currently and used to have JSRF before I sold my X-Box).
However, JSRF still rocks. The grahpics are cleaned substantially, and DJ. Professor K is much, much less freaky looking. The music is a combination of some of the same and some different tracks but it all keeps the same general feel. Grinding is easier, you can do tricks on your grind to go faster, jumping feels more natural, and the whole thing plays faster. The dash boost was changed to cost a certain amount of spray cans (10?), lasts longer, and lets you damage the police. Also, the in-game grafitti editor is hella fun to use and my sisters played the game just for it (it's sorta like Mario Paint was back in the day). They also changed spraying to not have that stick-movement combo deal from Jet Grind Radio, which I personally liked, but a very small gripe and I guess it wouldn't work well with the increased speed anyhow.
Also, they added in some multiplayer, which seemed fun but unfortunately the only competition in my house is my little sister and she's not too good with the whole "hand-eye coordination" thing.
Basically, Jet Set Radio Future is to Jet Grind Radio what Super Smash Bros: Melee is to Super Smash Bros. An awesome improvement on an awesome game. If you liked Jet Grind Radio and can get access to an X-Box, at the very least rent it, it's a really solid game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Basically, Jet Set Radio Future is to Jet Grind Radio what Super Smash Bros: Melee is to Super Smash Bros. An awesome improvement on an awesome game. If you liked Jet Grind Radio and can get access to an X-Box, at the very least rent it, it's a really solid game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll get it out this weekend and see if I can check it out. Sounds really good.
Here I was thinking I was one of the only people who liked games that dared to do something different (Like JGR) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5+Jun 26 2005, 11:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5 @ Jun 26 2005, 11:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> EDIT: Liku, they haven't revelaed anything aside from online yet, but I expect more gameplay improvements. Anywho, I was able to beat anyone with Shiek as Link (not Young Link) thanks to superior range, projectiles and the hookshot. But I probably haven't had the same level of competition you've had. Also, what makes Kirby superior? His standing B attack? (Sorry, I only play with my friends, none of us are competitive on any ladders or anything of that sort, we live in a pretty rural area). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Young Link is low tier, I'd love to see a Sheik lose to that. But every tournament's filled with Sheik/Fox/Peach ****** bags, because they're simply in it for the victory and don't let anyone else enjoy the "fun" that's been removed by Sheik.
The turnip, throw, pull turnip peach tactic was quite powerful from what I recall (or it is some variation on that).
Regardless, however much I would love to play the new Super Smash brothers installation, I don't think I can take another cycle of waiting for one good game release every 4-5 months in New Zealand (literally <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
<!--QuoteBegin-Liku+Jun 27 2005, 01:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Liku @ Jun 27 2005, 01:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Fox <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> GAH. Can't STAND Fox. I also can't stand Dr. Mario and his damn cape reflect-o thingie. I've never even fought Peach yet but I guess I'll fool around with her tomorrow (wink) and see what you're talking about...
But damn, I freaking can't stand Fox. Not as Link, not as Shiek, not as Pikachu... He pretty much is the only computer opponent I still have trouble with. Him and Dr. Mario. Is Dr. Mario popular in tournaments or just Peach, Sheik and Fox?
D. Mario is a great tournament character and his wavedash is easy to pull off.
What makes Peach scary is that down smash, since most people tend to duck cancel hits or tech so that they don't get sent far, they sit there and absorb all 50 of the damage.
I think you guys forgot to mention Samus as well, she's high tier because of her powerful recover abilities and multiple kill moves.
------------------------------- Crono you just bought the game or something? No A.I. is hard, it's just a matter of recognizing patterns and having appropriate reaction time.
Just curious, but what's the big deal about shiek anyways? I play zelda in SSB:M and solidly kick all my friend's rears. Only time I bring out shiek is when I feel like doing something a lil different, when I need the extra weight to keep me in or when it's instant death and I want to see 3 people running screaming into the furthest corner of the map from me :p
Comments
Don't worry, let the cavemen play with their tools of stone. When the bronze age cometh, they shall fall to us in droves.
I'm wondering if branch prediction will be an emphasized part of the cell. With architecture that parallel I wouldn't be surprised if they sent off both branches and just picked the correct one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The SPEs of the Cell have no branch prediction. This is odd, because McSweeney (of Epic fame) plans on using it for physics processing in their upcoming Unreal engine. The reason why it is odd is because physics is branch heavy. The software will have to do the branch predictions.
And, Quauwhateverthefarkyourname is, you aren't providing any technical information at all. You're just making some random conjecture that supports your assertion, without checking if your guess is right or not. The two consoles will both sport multithreaded problems. Cell is one solution to multithreaded applications. The tri-cored Xenon is another solution. Both do have their strengths and weaknesses. Three multi-purposed general CPUs versus one multi-purpose CPU and 7 single-purposed CPUs can be a close call that will swing both ways. Both keep multithreading in mind, but they have different approaches to it.
I don't see what all the hype is, current generation desktop CPUs are already more powerful than both the Cell and the Xenons, but many rabid fanboys are declaring the end of computer gaming and basking in the hype of Sony.
And on a completely unrelated note, Quauwhateverthefark, when it comes down to price/performance, Dell XPS beats Alienware hands down in terms of gaming. In terms of absolute fastest performance, you're better off building the damn computer yourself and STILL saving cash than if you bought an Alienware.
Frankly, it just seems that you're just another ignorant fanboy lost in the shuffle. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey Rapier, why don't you shut your flipping face? No need of that "Fanboy" **** here: I'm just reporting what I've seen at, oh, every single flipping gaming site on the flipping net. I'm not a fanboy for Sony- I think the PS2 was a disaster, games wise, except for GTA, while XBox seemed to foster much better games. Pulling that "fanboy" **** makes you look like some flipping idiot, when I'm just reporting fact.
And so I'm not reporting technical jargon. I'm listening to the people who are using the system on a daily basis: Not people who've analyzed the specs a million times over.
And when it came to the computer stuff, it was a damned example, and you're still wrong in it. First off, yes, building your own PC will be the best option, yes, but that wasn't even one of the flipping options to begin with. And we aren't measuring price/performance, were going performance-performance the entire flipping way. Thats why the PS3 will probably be more expensive than the 360.
Get off your flipping high horse man. I'm just reporting what I'm hearing from those folks, who're actually in it. Not some obscure little observation site.
In conclusion, arguments about next-gen consoles are pointless until we have something to compare. Thank you and good day, no further questions.
C'mon, men, no need for hostility. Fact of the matter is that probably nobody here (aside from the extremely slight possibility of Ken20Banks/KungFuSquirrel) has seen the PS3 or X-Box 360 hardware or worked with it, so let's just all be calm and realize that it doesn't matter because Nintendo's the best because I say so.
Even if x chip is good with this and y chip isn't so good at that, neither of you are the chip designers and neither of you depend on the chip's success for your financial stability, so there's really no point in you arguing so intensley. Besides, since the hardware of both chips are so arguably close in performance and definentley good compared to, say, current-gen, what you guys should really be concerned with is the games out for either. And a system that's got innovative hardware, a system that's very easy to develop for, and a system with an innovative control interface are all probably equally inviting for developers, so arguing hardware is even less productive.
In retrospect, please don't mind me popping out of nowhere and saying this.
And you ARE talking about technical specifications. You try to pass off the greatness of Cell, you say that it will devastate other people's computers. And it doesn't.
When you talk about the tech. specs, you should know what you're talking about.
Now, if this was a thread saying, "OMGZ TEH PS3 IS TEH ROXORZ" then it wouldn't have been a blip on my radar. But when you're talking about its hardware capabilities and specifications, then I'm interested.
Read, learn, communicate. Don't do the third without doing the first two.
Crono5: Actually, Crono5, it's going to be a headache for developers to create titles for Cell. It uses a completely new architecture, that'll take time getting used to. The entire industry has been programming single threaded games for as long as the gaming industry has been around. Coding for multithreaded hardware gets harder and harder as its complexity grows (Cell). But it can be a payoff in terms of performance.
Porting's going to be a nightmare, though.
...
I can't say anything, anything at all. How anyone could say a console sporting a bunch of half-arsed made for easy PC ports (most of which are much better on PC, or just crap anyway), some of the WORST exclusive platformers ever on a console (Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Blinx) and a complete lack of any innovative titles had better games is...
Just amazing.
I need to go and lie down because my irony meter just fatally exploded.
Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X:
Developers will make there games for whatever platforms have the support and fanbase.
...
I can't say anything, anything at all. How anyone could say a console sporting a bunch of half-arsed made for easy PC ports (most of which are much better on PC, or just crap anyway), some of the WORST exclusive platformers ever on a console (Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Blinx) and a complete lack of any innovative titles had better games is...
Just amazing.
I need to go and lie down because my irony meter just fatally exploded. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've spent countless hours enjoying my XBox. But with my PS2, I've noticed I've played more PS1 games on it than PS2. The only ones I even really liked for PS2 were God of War, FFX(kinda. It was a good game, but not enough for the series), GT4, and the GTA:3+s, which first came out there.
XBox though, I've enjoyed Halo 1, a bit of H2 MP(good for a console), Ninja Gaiden, the best version of BG&E, Forza Motorsports(which is a MUCH better sim than GT4), Jade Empire, KoTOR 2(hated #1, and #2 was buggy on the PC), Steel Batallion, the best version of Mercenaries, best version of SSX3, DOA 3 and U, best version of this, that, all of that. Sure, its exclusives were few, but most of the ones they had were pretty good quality(blinx 1 is good if you can be okay with the story, and we can't deny the Halo franchise, the fact that DoA is exclusive for it says something), but the fact that it always had the nicest looking version of any of the three consoles is what really hits the nail on the head. AND the fact that many of the games on XBox pushed the boundaries of gameplay, and/or brought back the best of the roots of the games, when other consoles didn't, really says something. I just enjoyed it much more.
And Rapier: No point in continuing this if you won't listen to me.
Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X: <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The PS2 is the system using the Cell processor...
Yeah, IIRC so is the PS2, but I don't recall arguing against this point... X: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The PS2 is the system using the Cell processor... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um...no?
EDIT: For clarification, what I meant before this post was that it was also headache-inducing to develop games for PS2, from what I've read.
EDIT II: lol, Don't sweat it. Last week I was looking for my X-Box for like, hours, only to remember I sold it a few months ago.
...
Good God, you're an irony meter exploding machine.
That is a statement I would never associate with the bland generic games on the X-Box (Bar, as I've mentioned, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Crimson Skies, all three of which didn't sell very well from memory..wonder why...). Sure, if we count ports I guess it has the odd decent game, but then again, ports can be claimed by anything.
Heck, the very fact a large majority of your list are <b>ports</b> or have been ported to the PC [i]proves my entire point to begin with.
...
Good God, you're an irony meter exploding machine.
That is a statement I would never associate with the bland generic games on the X-Box (Bar, as I've mentioned, Ninja Gaiden, Panzer Dragoon Orta and Crimson Skies, all three of which didn't sell very well from memory..wonder why...). Sure, if we count ports I guess it has the odd decent game, but then again, ports can be claimed by anything.
Heck, the very fact a large majority of your list are <b>ports</b> or have been ported to the PC [i]proves my entire point to begin with. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woah woah, since when did Ninja Gaiden not sell well? And lets look at Jade Empire. Exclusive, and awesome. It was the primary platform of KOTOR. And what titles exactly did much for the PS2? I can count GTA, God of War...and thats it. What else is there? Don't cut my sentences in half either, makes you look stupid.
ANd so their ports? Whats your point? You could say the same for most of the PS2's games.
Your missing a couple:
Socom 2
Gran Turismo 3 & 4 (yeah, i know about forza)
Jak 1, 2, 3,
Ratchet And Clank Series...
Devil May Cry Series...
Those games have done alot for ps2 sales.
Each system has great games that help sell it.
Am I the only one on Earth that liked Jet Grind Radio?
And my favorite PS2 series was Onimusha, but I also liked MGS2/3
I've heard it didn't do very well, regardless, Panzer Dragoon Orta sold essentially nothing (which is a crime in and of itself) <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> [I may have got these mixed up. One sold next to virtually zero]
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It was the primary platform of KOTOR.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Far outclassed by a PC, in both cases because at least many of the silly bugs were fixed in the PC version of KotoR 2 (after a long enough wait). Plus we got some extra crap (not that I cared, the first game was so good the direct port was more than enough, but the sequel was awful and nowhere near the quality of the first game sadly).
Then again, need I mention the engine for KotoR was developed for a PC game, namely NWN? Do we forget little facts like this when it suits you to come out with whatever your spouting? I'm beginning to see Rapiers point now...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And lets look at Jade Empire. Exclusive, and awesome.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Edit: Seems it isn't being ported after all. None the less, this is the one example you were able to come up with any merit. Not a good sign.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And what titles exactly did much for the PS2? I can count GTA, God of War...and thats it. What else is there? Don't cut my sentences in half either, makes you look stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simpler to answer <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Don't have such silly statements in future and we'll have no problems with needing to cut out the nonsense from the rest.
As for your question; Robot Alchemic Drive, Ico, Ratchet and Clank*, Sly Racoon* (although I concede the cell shading really gets to people), Guitaroo Man, Jak and Daxter 2* (the original was nothing special however), God of War (to use your own example), Disgaea, Kingdom Hearts, and <b>more</b>. You really haven't played a lot of PS2 games if you name ports as being better examples of 'brilliant' gameplay :/
Incidently, not one port in the entire lot of those games, even not counting the fact these are brilliant sequels or trilogies by themselves, I don't even require any form of double dipping to artifically expand out my list (which is cheating anyway IMO).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
ANd so their ports? Whats your point? You could say the same for most of the PS2's games.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what games have I named that were ports hmmm?
Waterboy
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Each system has great games that help sell it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, to me, the gamecube barely manages and everything Q has so far come up with has devolved into ports I can play on my PC (with rare exceptions). That doesn't speak well for a console, because it must be EXCLUSIVE to that console only. I won't buy a console for ports.
Period.
Edit: Also, just to let you know I am perfectly reasonable. If you can name 3 triple A <b>exclusive</b> platformers on the X-Box and 3 triple A <b>exclusive</b> X-Box JapRPGs then I'll reconsider my position. Otherwise, and this is why I found your initial statements so laughably absurd, your statement that the X-Box pushed the 'boundaries' of gameplay, yet is riddled with ports and unexceptional games that are exactly the opposite.
Somewhere along the line, I don't buy that argument <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Chrono5
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No one likes Jet Set Radio Future?
Am I the only one on Earth that liked Jet Grind Radio?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I loved the original dreamcast version, but I never got to play Jet Set Radio Future (which was the X-Box version I think). So I wouldn't know how it plays.
God, I hope not.
Because anybody who doesn't like Jet Set Radio deserves to be shot.
You make it sound like they're just adding Online for the first game, which we already have Emulator's for.
They better get the characters straight for once. No more Kirby/Sheik bullsh*t. I know fighting game have Top Tier, but God is way off the list.
(Sorry, I only play with my friends, none of us are competitive on any ladders or anything of that sort, we live in a pretty rural area).
<!--QuoteBegin-Aegeri+Jun 27 2005, 12:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Jun 27 2005, 12:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I loved the original dreamcast version, but I never got to play Jet Set Radio Future (which was the X-Box version I think). So I wouldn't know how it plays. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
JSRF is basically like JGR 1.75- it added a few areas and improved the gameplay, but it wasn't a complete sequel and borrowed some areas from the Dreamcast game (I've played both, have Jet Grind Radio currently and used to have JSRF before I sold my X-Box).
However, JSRF still rocks. The grahpics are cleaned substantially, and DJ. Professor K is much, much less freaky looking. The music is a combination of some of the same and some different tracks but it all keeps the same general feel. Grinding is easier, you can do tricks on your grind to go faster, jumping feels more natural, and the whole thing plays faster. The dash boost was changed to cost a certain amount of spray cans (10?), lasts longer, and lets you damage the police. Also, the in-game grafitti editor is hella fun to use and my sisters played the game just for it (it's sorta like Mario Paint was back in the day). They also changed spraying to not have that stick-movement combo deal from Jet Grind Radio, which I personally liked, but a very small gripe and I guess it wouldn't work well with the increased speed anyhow.
Also, they added in some multiplayer, which seemed fun but unfortunately the only competition in my house is my little sister and she's not too good with the whole "hand-eye coordination" thing.
Basically, Jet Set Radio Future is to Jet Grind Radio what Super Smash Bros: Melee is to Super Smash Bros. An awesome improvement on an awesome game. If you liked Jet Grind Radio and can get access to an X-Box, at the very least rent it, it's a really solid game.
I'll get it out this weekend and see if I can check it out. Sounds really good.
Here I was thinking I was one of the only people who liked games that dared to do something different (Like JGR) <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(Sorry, I only play with my friends, none of us are competitive on any ladders or anything of that sort, we live in a pretty rural area). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Young Link is low tier, I'd love to see a Sheik lose to that. But every tournament's filled with Sheik/Fox/Peach ****** bags, because they're simply in it for the victory and don't let anyone else enjoy the "fun" that's been removed by Sheik.
My reference to Kirby was toward the first game.
Regardless, however much I would love to play the new Super Smash brothers installation, I don't think I can take another cycle of waiting for one good game release every 4-5 months in New Zealand (literally <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
GAH. Can't STAND Fox. I also can't stand Dr. Mario and his damn cape reflect-o thingie. I've never even fought Peach yet but I guess I'll fool around with her tomorrow (wink) and see what you're talking about...
But damn, I freaking can't stand Fox. Not as Link, not as Shiek, not as Pikachu... He pretty much is the only computer opponent I still have trouble with. Him and Dr. Mario. Is Dr. Mario popular in tournaments or just Peach, Sheik and Fox?
What makes Peach scary is that down smash, since most people tend to duck cancel hits or tech so that they don't get sent far, they sit there and absorb all 50 of the damage.
I think you guys forgot to mention Samus as well, she's high tier because of her powerful recover abilities and multiple kill moves.
-------------------------------
Crono you just bought the game or something? No A.I. is hard, it's just a matter of recognizing patterns and having appropriate reaction time.